Editing Talk:Palette swap

{{talk}}
I feel this article should be deleted because it's not clear and precise on what it means by "palette swap," which is a hardware limitation with all of the examples provided, since the NES was known for that, not a gameplay mechanic. The ''Super Mario'' examples of palette swaps can go on the [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] page for reader convenience instead, since it'd perfectly describe the NES hardware. If one is talking about color varieties of enemies, objects, etc., that's not a "palette swap" either, that's just things that happen to exist in color variation. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:05, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:I thought this was about palette swaps from playable characters. Not in the sense of Luigi in ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|Mario Bros.]]'' (which isn't even mentioned here despite the article talking about that game), but more in the sense of what ''[[Mario Golf (Nintendo 64)|Mario Golf]]'' and ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'' have. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:09, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::Yeah, true, there's those, but the article fails to discern old hardware limitations from intentional palette swaps. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:11, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::: According to research, the term '''palette swap''' applies to where a graphics retains its usual standard, although the color or form may be altered. Most games related with the ''Mario'' franchise do feature characters and enemies in alternate colors or forms, as an example of proof of images added to each section of the mentioned games. This is a mechanic which has been a principal glossary term, especially when ''Super Smash Bros.'' was released. So, overall, with more titles set to be added to this article, and with proof of pictures that show any alternate colors or forms of characters, there is simply no sufficient grounds for this article to be subject to deletion. [[User:VideoGamePhenomHD|VideoGamePhenomHD]] ([[User talk:VideoGamePhenomHD|talk]]) 15:12, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::I still think the page needed to be rewritten to make a distinction between palette swaps for character customization/distinction, and palette swaps due to hardware limitations. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:23, June 5, 2024 (EDT)

I think [[User:EvieMaybe/Alternate colors|this page]] is a good guideline on how a page like this could reasonably look. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:30, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:Salutations! You made a valuable find there. Maybe we can import a little information from there and research the image gallery for proof of pictures from each respective game to get all the gains. [[User:VideoGamePhenomHD|VideoGamePhenomHD]] ([[User talk:VideoGamePhenomHD|talk]]) 15:33, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::Except that's a subpage being made by another user and it would be "edit sniping" to try and take over their iteration of the project concerning this article. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:37, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::Maybe EvieMaybe could be invited along to work on this page? Not sure if that's what either them or VideoGamePhenom wants, but it would at least be courteous. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:43, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::Remember, research is important. Gaze through the galleries of the respective games and see which photos you can add to and combine with for the designated game title. [[User:VideoGamePhenomHD|VideoGamePhenomHD]] ([[User talk:VideoGamePhenomHD|talk]]) 15:48, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::::...What does that have to do with my suggestion of inviting EvieMaybe to work on this page as well? {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:53, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Everybody here on the Wiki has a right to help out. While some are online or while some are away, this page is free to edit. But make sure to watch for edit conflicts as content may be updated rapidly here. [[User:VideoGamePhenomHD|VideoGamePhenomHD]] ([[User talk:VideoGamePhenomHD|talk]]) 15:57, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::...Do you even understand what I'm talking about? I was suggesting to invite EvieMaybe over to work on this page, because by using [[User:EvieMaybe/Alternate colors|their subpage]] to work on this one, we'd essentially be mooching off of ''their'' project for only your own benefit (as what Super Mario RPG basically means with his "edit sniping" thing), which wouldn't exactly be nice. If we invite Evie over, that would be at least be considerate of us to do, especially since we didn't know Evie was already working on this project by themselves.<br>I was hoping you would agree and decide to message Evie about it yourself, since, you know, you started up this page and all, but instead your reply to my suggestion is completely irrelevant to said suggestion... and so is your other reply, somewhat. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:44, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::eviemaybe here, please use anything from my alternate colors wip! i'll probably add some stuff myself later [[User:EvieMaybe|EvieMaybe]] ([[User talk:EvieMaybe|talk]]) 09:24, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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+{{talk}}
 I feel this article should be deleted because it's not clear and precise on what it means by "palette swap," which is a hardware limitation with all of the examples provided, since the NES was known for that, not a gameplay mechanic. The ''Super Mario'' examples of palette swaps can go on the [[Nintendo Entertainment System]] page for reader convenience instead, since it'd perfectly describe the NES hardware. If one is talking about color varieties of enemies, objects, etc., that's not a "palette swap" either, that's just things that happen to exist in color variation. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 15:05, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
 :I thought this was about palette swaps from playable characters. Not in the sense of Luigi in ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|Mario Bros.]]'' (which isn't even mentioned here despite the article talking about that game), but more in the sense of what ''[[Mario Golf (Nintendo 64)|Mario Golf]]'' and ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'' have. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:09, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
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 :::::::...Do you even understand what I'm talking about? I was suggesting to invite EvieMaybe over to work on this page, because by using [[User:EvieMaybe/Alternate colors|their subpage]] to work on this one, we'd essentially be mooching off of ''their'' project for only your own benefit (as what Super Mario RPG basically means with his "edit sniping" thing), which wouldn't exactly be nice. If we invite Evie over, that would be at least be considerate of us to do, especially since we didn't know Evie was already working on this project by themselves.<br>I was hoping you would agree and decide to message Evie about it yourself, since, you know, you started up this page and all, but instead your reply to my suggestion is completely irrelevant to said suggestion... and so is your other reply, somewhat. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:44, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
 ::::::::eviemaybe here, please use anything from my alternate colors wip! i'll probably add some stuff myself later [[User:EvieMaybe|EvieMaybe]] ([[User talk:EvieMaybe|talk]]) 09:24, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::Page should stay imo anyway, nice to see an article that documents alternate color schemes throughout Mario games. {{User:Mario/sig}} 10:53, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::It needs a specific scope, though. Are we talking about just "alternate color schemes"? The first entry on the page is talking about palette-swapped enemies, of which there are countless examples across the series. '''Every single instance of Green and Red Koopa Troopas would have to be included here'''. Otherwise, this would be restricted to alternative color schemes for playable characters, which is what most of the article is focused on...but then we have mentions (and images) of Toadette in a completely different '''costume'''. That is not a "palette swap", it's a different costume. If this page is going to stay, it needs a solid "mission statement", as such... [[User:Shadow2|Shadow2]] ([[User talk:Shadow2|talk]]) 15:13, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::I'm probably late to this and this could've probably already been addressed, but as someone who has definitely talked about palette swaps before, I would like to offer my two cents. I definitely agree that this article is fine, but I feel it should be a bit more limited to palette swaps that don't have distinct gameplay differences. Things like the alternate colors for ''Mario Golf'', ''Super Smash Bros.'' and ''Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon'' are examples that I think are fine here, but I think the most notable examples of things that are a bit more than palette swaps are the colored characters in sports games (''Superstar Baseball'' and Yoshi colors in ''Mario Tennis Open'' etc.) or Yoshies, Birdos, Toads and Shy Guys in ''Mario Kart Tour''. Species like Yoshi, Toad and Shy Guy already have a weird history with the whole palette swaps  vs. distinct character deal, which is why I'm more hesitant to write them off as mere palette swaps (especially when many games consistently use Yoshi colors more as names rather than just extensions of Yoshi himself), so I don't really think it's fair to list them here when, in those cases, they're not really being written off as just a different color of a character, they're separate character options. Most other examples are palette swaps that allow players to use the same character at the same time. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
-::::::::::::Yeah the costume changes should not be there. Keep it to palette changes and texture recolors. {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:49, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
-A lot of the sections right now are quite short. Really quite short. And a bit samey in some cases, too. Might there perhaps be a possibility to merge some of these, e.g. the ''Super Smash Bros.'' sections? Also, {{@|VideoGamePhenomHD}}, I think it's best that the article links should stay out of sections.<br>Both of these are mentioned in [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#Sections of an article]], specifically [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#History|History]] and [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style#Section headings|Section headings]], respectively. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:10, June 7, 2024 (EDT)