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| ===Merge with [[Mario]]=== | | ===Merge with [[Mario]]=== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|canceled}}
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| It's kind of like [[Talk:The Goodwill Ambassador#Merge with Cackletta|this proposal]]. See, Mr. Pipe is just Mario in disguise trying to be helpful, therefore the same character. Maybe it's different from the other situation, I don't know. | | It's kind of like [[Talk:The Goodwill Ambassador#Merge with Cackletta|this proposal]]. See, Mr. Pipe is just Mario in disguise trying to be helpful, therefore the same character. Maybe it's different from the other situation, I don't know. |
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| ====Merge==== | | ====Merge==== |
| #{{User|Koopakoolklub}} Because Mr. Pipe is Mario in a pipe. | | #{{User|Koopakoolklub}} Because Mr. Pipe is Mario in a pipe. |
| #{{User|Ninelevendo}} We need to propose a set standard to pages like this, or otherwise we will get millions of proposals everywhere like this. My reasoning is that this is simply Mario in a pipe, he undergoes no actual transformation or personality changes whatsoever, unlike Mr. L. Mr. Pipe is similar to the role of Mr. L, (And somewhat like Rookie) a disguised character that doesn't get revealed until later in the game. However, Mr. Pipe has nothing different from that of Mario. It's Mario in a pipe. | | #{{User|Ninelevendo}} We need to propose a set standard to pages like this, or otherwise we will get millions of proposals everywhere like this. |
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| ====Keep Separate==== | | ====Keep Separate==== |
| #{{User|Baby Luigi}} Mr. Pipe isn't shown to be explicitly Mario until the end of the game. Even then, it's akin to a power-up of Mario: it's a perfect disguise for Mario and it enables him to spawn super-power-ups for Yoshi. We don't merge [[Rookie (Bowser)]] with [[Bowser]] even though they're technically the same character. What makes Mr. Pipe special is that he also received a unique name, and he was specifically intended to akin to a separate character. That is reasons alone I strongly believe that it is better to keep this article separate from Mario's article. [http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Black_Cat Marshall Dan Troop's argument sums up perfectly what I think of this proposal]
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| #{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per Baby Luigi and past Marshal Dan Troop (I will note that on principle i'm opposed to Casanova Koopa being merged with Luigi).
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| ====Comments==== | | ====Comments==== |
| @Ninelevendo: Is that really such a bad thing? If not through proposals, how would we establish a set standard on them? Right now, I think a case-by-case basis might be the best solution.--[[User:Vommack|Vommack]] ([[User talk:Vommack|talk]]) 17:32, 7 July 2014 (EDT) | | @Ninelevendo: Is that really such a bad thing? If not through proposals, how would we establish a set standard on them? Right now, I think a case-by-case basis might be the best solution.--[[User:Vommack|Vommack]] ([[User talk:Vommack|talk]]) 17:32, 7 July 2014 (EDT) |
| :The problem with that is that different proposals can have different outcomes depending on the time, the quality of the article and character favouritism. This causes an un-even standard to come, and heavily disorganises the wiki. I think that by one proposal, these different factors will be avoided, and we can finally set the standard to the wiki. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 17:48, 7 July 2014 (EDT) | | :The problem with that is that different proposals can have different outcomes depending on the time, the quality of the article and character favouritism. This causes an un-even standard to come, and heavily disorganises the wiki. I think that by one proposal, these different factors will be avoided, and we can finally set the standard to the wiki. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 17:48, 7 July 2014 (EDT) |
| ::Keep in mind that TPP tend to be lower traffic affairs. Less people see them on average than those seen on the formal proposals page. You'll need to make your case pretty clear (use previous TPP as examples) or this'll fall on it's face. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Ghost Jam]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 20:49, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| @Ninelevendo: The pipe alias is enough to distinguish this form and Mario. I can say, Dr. Mario is just Mario in a doctor coat, the Black Cat is just Princess Shokora as a cat, Super Kong is just a white Donkey Kong, etc. What makes Mr. Pipe different from other forms is that it's a well-established alias in the game, and the true identity doesn't get revealed until the conclusion of the game, so Mr. Pipe was clearly intended for players to believe he is separate from Mario. Unlike Casanova Koopa or Nurse Toadstool, which were clearly intended to be identified as Luigi and Peach, Mr. Pipe was clearly intended to be taken as a separate character until the end of the game for the shock value. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:10, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :Just Becuase he was unrevealed until the end of the game doesn't make him a different character. However, I don't own the game, so I'm a little unsure about how obvious it is that he's Mario and what he says is any different to what he would say. I see your point, I'm guessing this reasoning is behind that of Shadow Mario (And slightly behind Mr. L). If it isn't obvious enough that this is Mario, than this may deserve its own article. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 21:16, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::I don't own the game either but he wasn't intended for players to identify as Mario. Plus, he's like the Super Guide of the game: he gives Yoshi items if Yoshi dies too much. I think this disguise is like a power-up, such as the Propeller Block or the Coin Block where it also hides Mario in a similar fashion. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:18, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :::So the rule should be:"''If the character is unintended to be distinguished as their real character, than they deserve an article. ([[Shadow Mario]]) If they are the same character simply in a disguise, then it is merged, ([[The Goodwill Ambassador]]) unless it involves characterstic changes, such as a different personality. ([[Mr. L]], [[Rookie]]) If a character appears as a separate form that isn't a mere power-up they deserve an article ([[Metal Mario (character)]])''". So, the first one then applies to this page. Does this sound right to everyone? - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 21:28, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::Yeah it would most certainly fall under that first point. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:35, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| :::::So what would happen with [[Fire Gobblegut]]? I'm still trying to work out what the set standard should be, therefore the points I brought out are considered useless until everything fits in nicely. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 21:38, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::Not everything needs a set standard sometimes it's better evaluate things on a case by case basis. {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}
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| :::::::Like I mentioned earlier though, simple things can change outcomes. - {{User:Ninelevendo/sig}} 21:42, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Favoritism only affects FA nominations it doesn't affect proposals most of the time. And even if favoritism were to affect a proposal you have to trust that your fellow wiki mates will be professional (as is the case 99% of the time). Furthermore I feel that this issue affects to many things to have a rigid standard applied to it. {{User|Marshal Dan Troop}}
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| :::::::::Let me state right out that this is bull. Favoritism might not be the right word for it, but our proposal archives show that people vote for whatever has been a standard longest unless a crazy compelling argument is provided and sometimes not even then. We have structure because blind trust doesn't get us anywhere. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Ghost Jam]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 22:45, 7 July 2014 (EDT)
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