Editing Talk:Moo Moo

==(First topic)==
I recall Kamek saying "uh...an evil cow" when he was talking to Baby Bowser. I think he may have been lying. {{User:Crypt Raider/sig}}

Aren't they called moo-moos? As in the name of the Mariokart course: Moo-moo meadows. {{User:Geniusguy445/sig}}
:I think the Prima Guide calls them Moo moos, but they are the same people that list Chain-Chomps appearing in Moonview Highway. I'm skeptical of these people.

{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

I think Moo Moo would be a better name. It is heavily implied by the course names (Moo Moo Farm and Moo Moo Meadows) and that one truck in Moonview Highway that advertises Moo Moo Milk. I don't think we should completely disregard Prima because of some errors.--{{User|Knife}} 17:39, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
:Yeah, but what the content from series other than Mario Kart? Shouldn't that mean that if we do create Moo Moo, we have to move the Mario Kart information only? It is the only series that calls these cows "Moo Moo" or something.
{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

I don't think a whole new article is necessary. If we say that this game also refers to cows as moo-moos...well, the game doesn't actually mention anything. we could say that it is implied by other sources, like the course name and the truck label. It's a very minor thing and most other games would say they're merely cows and nothing special. I still like the name moo-moo, though. {{User:Geniusguy445/sig}}

If it is a separate sub-species, it does need a separate article. However, since there is no definitive proof that Moo Moos are a separate sub-species, perhaps we should simply mention that they are called Moo Moos in the Mario Kart series (going by the Prima source)?--{{User|Knife}} 03:10, 3 December 2010 (UTC)
:Moo moos are not called "cows", though, they are called "Moo Moos". We can't just go around saying, "Cows (called Moo Moos) appeared in so and so". We must have a separate article if that's your point. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}

Well, all right. I guess we should split this then.--{{User|Knife}} 15:48, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Uhm, no we shouldn't. It's not like the Mario Kart series is a whole universe of it's own or something. I think BLOF is being overly dramatic about this. If they're referred to as Moo Moos in-game and in other licensed material, that's what they are, think clearly guys. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 08:40, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
:HOWEVER, if the suggestion of a new page was because of the implication that there's a difference between regular cows that appear in say those crummy cartoons, then yes I think a different article should exist. [[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 08:42, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Y'know, I don't actually think they were ever called 'Cows' - I think Nintendo meant them to be called Moo Moos, or else why name a race track full of them after them if they're not called that? I think the creator of this article is WRONG. [[User:KamekDude|KamekDude - I&#39;M COMING FOR YOUR BABIES!]] 04:36, 3 June 2011 (EDT)

Maybe we should take out the fact that they produce milk. I don't think Mario games note in any way that cows make milk so unless I can get further information, I might remove it.
{{unsigned|PMK}}

Yes They Were Called Cows in Official Manuals and Websites. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]

==Clean up this article==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|2-7-0|remove information based on generic/real-life cows}}
For the same reason that the sapient [[Honeybee]]s aren't regular [[bee]]s and the [[Li'l Oink]]s aren't regular [[pig]]s (this should also be stressed as a Really Good example), it should really be stressed that Moo Moos are not regular cows, for reasons of ''look at them''. From their first apperance, they were properly called "Moo Moos" and not "cows", distinguishing them from the real-life animal. This is very much in the same vein as [[Talk:Bee#Split_the_Super_Mario_Galaxy_bees_from_this_article|the previous proposal]] to split Honeybees from the Bee page. However, in this case, there's something else to take into consideration: it can be seriously argued that the generic cows in this article are not worth covering in the slightest. 

From the top: the [[Royal Cow]] has its own article, the Koopenstein cows are only background elements, the ''Paper Mario'' and ''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'' references are laughably barebones (and I'll point out that [[Milk|no]], "Cow" isn't capitalized in-game), and ''WarioWare'' contains such a wide variety of generic subjects that it shouldn't be considered as a substantial appearance. The one saving grace may be with ''Mario Strikers Charged'', in which [[Thunder Island]] occasionally has Cows roll through the field (although they're basically ragdolls and nothing more), but [[MarioWiki:Generic subjects]] alone disallows many of these sections. That's why there will be three options: splitting Moo Moos from this article while leaving the real-life cow information intact, scrapping all of the real-life cow info and reappropriating the article for Moo Moos, or doing nothing and leaving things as they are.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Time Turner}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 13, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Split Moo Moo from this article===
#{{User|Time Turner}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} How about "Remove [[Mariowiki:Generic Subjects]]?"

===Remove information based on generic/real-life cows===
#{{User|Time Turner}} My preferred option, for the simple fact that nothing about the generic cow is worth covering, at least not to the point where we'd lose information. Per proposal.
#{{User|MarioComix}} Per proposal. While previously the Moo Moos were not explicitly referred to as such until ''MK8'' (hence the article's generic title), now's the time to properly classify them. As well, most of the other cow information are either verbal references, or one minor instance in ''MSC'' (and we don't have a page for the flying tractors, either).
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per all.

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
@Doc: Could you elaborate? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:31, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:It's a stupid rule IMO. What more is there to say? I still think that the birds in front of Peach's Castle should get covered under something. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:32, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::Can you elaborate on why it's a stupid rule? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:33, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:::It hinders full information being listed? And is often pretty arbitrary and open-to-interpretation? And is often used for "This is a real thing that's used a lot, it doesn't matter at all."-type things? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:36, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::::The point of the rule is that there are plenty of generic subjects within the game that are entirely not worth covering: anything that could possibly be said about them would be redundant by the simple fact of what they literally are. I don't see an issue with that, but you're free to make a proposal callings for its removal. For the moment, though, it's a valid and official policy, and it can't be disregarded just because you don't like it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:38, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
:::::Just saying, this rule is equatable to a [[Stonk]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:40, 30 September 2017 (EDT)
::::::If you don't like it, you're free to discuss it. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:44, 30 September 2017 (EDT)

== What a mess. == 
Ugh...This is a mess and i Hate it...First Of all Yes The Moo Moos WERE called Cows in They're first appearance in Mario Kart 64 and not Moo Moos Though The Monty Moles Were called Chubby. in the Instruction Manual Description it says "A peaceful ranch course with an audience of contented COWS". Second. "Moo Moos are not regular cows, for reasons of look at them."? What kind of sense does that make? The Cows are Designed To Look CARTOONISH not REALISTIC! Plus even then they still look more realistic than the pigs in PMTTYD, the polar bears (Sense They Walk on Two of they're feet and in Ice Climbers They Wear Pants and Sunglasses) and The Mice in Luigi's Mansion Dark Moon Yet all of them kept they're names and the Category Real World Animals. Seriously The ''look at them'' reason is The STUPIDEST reason i've ever heard! Third. i always thought Moo Moo Farm and Moo Moo Meadows were named that Because Why Not? The Cows Do Moo. Not Because it is inhabited By Cows. i Can Call My Farm or Meadow Big Bug Farm/Meadows that doesn't mean my animals on my farm are Bugs or are any species of Bugs. i also Thought Moo Moo Was a nickname For The Cows not they're species! Last thing i Wanna mention. Why Did The Tweester Page not have it's Generic Tornado information removed?! For What i've seen there is absolutely no info on The Tornadoes From Super Mario Bros. 3 and its TV Show, Super Mario 64, New Super Mario Bros. and Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle Being Tweesters While There Was some information on The Moo Moos Being Cows Yet Tweesters Kept They're info?! Geez what a mess...and yet seven people voted for removing the real world info and NOBODY OPPOSED! i Would've Opposed But it Wouldn't have Matter Because the remove one Won. Ugh....What...a...Mess...   P.S. Thank You Alex95 For informing me the other section was finished With The Comments. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
:That's the point. There's a difference between ''Mario'' species and real world species. They're not the same. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:09, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::But The pigs and mice don't LOOK anything Like The Realistic animals They're Based and The Moo Moo Thing Could Be Just another name or nickname. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]
:::Even taking into account artistic liberties, there's a clear difference between cows and Moo Moos in this franchise, least of all the dopey smile. Also, what it is about the [[Mouse|Mice]] that makes them not resemble their real life counterparts? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 13:20, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::Regardless, wouldn't according to naming hierarchy the "cow" name be the one to go with, due to instruction manuals being on the highest tier? They were never called "Moo Moos" in any of the games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::::OK The Mice in Dark Moon Look NOTHING Like Real Mice. They Look Like Fat Computer Mice instead of the actual rodent plus they lack feet to walk around on. i'd argue that the pigs in PMTTYD Look more realistic than the Mice in DM. {{unsigned|LUIGIRULES71}}
::::::Um... Why is the cow-looking Yoshi in ''[[Yoshi's Woolly World]]'' (see [[List of Yoshi designs in Yoshi's Woolly World]] page) called Moo Moo Yoshi? Wouldn't you say that the cows are called Moo Moos? And there is also that reference down below on the article, which is also mentioned in a proposal support. As for the realistic issue, I am not going to touch due to not being able to help. And it doesn't seem to matter since there are two sources the clearly say Moo Moo over one for Cow and beside Moo Moo is also a newer name. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 14:23, 16 November 2017 (EST)

To me, the LMDM mice look perfectly normal (mostly judging from [[:File:LM2_Mouse.jpg|this image]]), [[Moo Moo Farm]] and [[Moo Moo Meadows]] both provide a name for the species ([[MarioWiki:Good_writing#Reading_between_the_lines|interpretations are fine so far as they're logical and straightforward]], although I would argue that this goes straight into Occam's razor territory), and "Moo Moo Yoshi" is the name used in-game. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 16:08, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:Except it was a Japanese series, originally "Moh Moh Farm," and in Japanese media, making a name for something based off of an onomatopoeia repeated twice is almost ubiquitous. See "Doki Doki Panic," for example. None of the things in it are called "Doki Dokis." "Moo Moo" is intended as a description, not a species name, and the instruction booklet for MK64 outright calls these "cows." "Moo Moo" as a noun came from a separate guide, so it is probably a mistake. Anyways, why wouldn't they change the name of the location too much for the Western release? Because it was already enough trouble to change the "Moh Moh Farm" sign to "Moo Moo Farm" to do anything further, apparently. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:35, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::And that's just speculation backed up by assuming the developer's action. I don't see your point with the Japanese name: that's still based on a cow's sounds, the same as in English. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:57, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::I'm saying that assuming it was the name of the creature seems to just be a goof by Prima, since an instruction booklet called them cows. Highest tier for naming. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:11, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::After looking on the wiki, there are more for '''both'''. Just see [[Moo Moo Meadows#Official descriptions|this]]. But, the wiki goes after "most commonly used English name" given it is on an equal tier. Yoshi's Woolly World is also the highest tier also. Since this is the case, Moo Moo should be used. But, naming it cow isn't necessary contradicting. Notice how we call Poodles or Beagles dogs. I would suspect something similar, but I don't have any proof. This is why I am saying necessary. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 18:52, 16 November 2017 (EST)
::::Seems to be. Right. They used the same wrong name multiple times in multiple guides. Did ''Woolly World'' also make a goof? Also, [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Mario_Kart_64_-_Manual_-_N64.pdf which] [http://www.mariomayhem.com/downloads/mario_instruction_booklets/Mario_Kart_Wii-WII.pdf manual] are you citing? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 19:54, 16 November 2017 (EST)
:::::64. Also when I typed that I didn't know a Wii guide used that name, figured if it had, it would have been brought up before a few months ago. Anyways, the description for Moo Moo Farm refers to them as cows. Also, it bugged me for years that the porcupine on this wiki was misnamed for so long, as the real name's right there, so...yeah. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:23, 16 November 2017 (EST)

Since the most recent naming of these familiar cows as "Moo Moo" is by a ''Mario Kart 8'' guide, and not "out of nowhere" (we've been given Moo Moo Farm, Moo Moo Meadows, Moo Moo Dairy, and Moo Moo Yoshi), I say "Moo Moo" is fine. Whatever's been used 20 years ago could be totally out-of-date (heck, "Princess Toadstool" was still very widespread at that time), so given we have an official contemporary source, "Moo Moo" should be fine. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:13, 17 November 2017 (EST)


Oops did i say 9? i meant 7... The other two Were the split. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES71]]


also in Mario Party 2 in The Ending To Mystery Land Koopa Troopa Guesses The Bloody Shadowy Figure (Which is actually Bowser LOL Spoilers) is a Cow. [[User:LUIGIRULES71|LUIGIRULES]]

:1. That's an old source compared to ''MK8'' Guide, which is to say, they could have changed their mind on the name by now (look at the case of Unagi and [[Maw-Ray]]). 2. Just because someone calls something a cow doesn't mean it can't have a more specific name. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 02:48, 28 December 2017 (EST)

== Name ==

Have the cows ever ''actually'' been directly called "Moo Moos" in any source other than MK8's PRIMA guide? Because all I can find are "cows." And no, the farm/meadows name and occasional nods to it don't count, that'd be like saying the cows in Zelda games are called "Lon Lons" because of the similar "Lon Lon Ranch" and "Lon Lon Milk." Does, like, MKT call them that or something? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:16, November 12, 2023 (EST)
:Cows don't appear as obstacles in Mario Kart Tour, so we don't benefit from an exact in-game label like what most obstacles in this game have. That said, Tour and 8 Deluxe have a Mii suit designed after the Moo Moo Meadows cows, called the "[[Mii#DLC racing suits|Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit]]". Don't know if that's anything particularly decisive, though, especially since it's named after the cow onomatopeia [[List of Mii Racing Suit names in other languages|in other languages too]]. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:58, November 12, 2023 (EST)
::The racing suits and yarn Yoshi skins I wouldn't count, as they're more of a "Lon Lon Milk" situation being named after the farm. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:03, November 12, 2023 (EST)
:::I don't think the Yoshi is named after the Mario Kart cow. The Japanese onomatopoeia is written in hiragana, while the "Moo Moo" version is consistently in katakana, and also, quite a few translations just call it "Cow Yoshi", unlike the Mario Kart suits. It also has a different color scheme and lacks the bell of the Mario Kart design. The Crafted World version does have the bell, but it's simply called a "cow". As for the suits, I can see the Portuguese translators at least seems to have interpreted "Moo Moo" as a noun, judging from it being "Fato de Mu Mu" and not "Fato Mu Mu", which would imply that "Mu Mu" / "Moo Moo" is the name of whatever the suit is depicting. Though the Portuguese translations aren't exactly the most reliable. Case in point, they do the same thing with the Pikmin Suit, which doesn't actually depict a Pikmin. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:54, November 12, 2023 (EST)
::::For what it's worth, the Pikmin suit could also be referring to the ''Pikmin'' series, not sure how that affects the noun and noun-adjacent grammar in Portuguese, though. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:30, November 12, 2023 (EST)
:::::That's a possibility, but the Animal Crossing Suit is spelled without the "de", and it's also the only obvious series name. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:40, November 13, 2023 (EST)
Two things to consider:<br>1. The Latam and European Spanish names of the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit directly give its inspiration the ''Mu-Mu'' ("Moo-Moo") designation in brackets. This is in line with other Mii suits inspired by Mario characters, who also have the name of the original character in brackets, such as ''Mono de Mii (Huesitos)'' for Dry Bones; meanwhile, those based on generic subjects are given a mundane designation rather than something made-up, e.g. ''Mono de Mii (Reno)'' for the reindeer suit.<br>2. Somewhat contrarily, the in-game flavor text of ''Tour's'' [[Moo Moo Offroader]] kart [[Moo Moo Offroader#Profiles and statistics|invokes]] its similarity to a cow, but not a "Moo Moo". This is the case in most localizations, including {{file link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader.jpg|English}}, {{file link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader JA.jpg|Japanese}} etc. but excluding {{file link|MKT Tour109 Special Offer Moo Moo Offroader ES.jpg|Spanish}}, which doesn't outright mention cows or Moo Moos.{{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 11:58, November 30, 2023 (EST)
:The example of "Lon Lon" isn't the example I'd use. Lon Lon is consistently established as a place throughout the Legend of Zelda games. This case, less so, moreso by the Mario franchises's naming conventions often being playful. The counterargument goes: inference dictates "Moo Moo" is the sound a cow makes so it's not unreasonable to assume it's referring to the cows. I know speculation is like a dirty word on this wiki, but I think this discussion is overly cautious about nomenclature here, and also I'm getting vibes of "Prima named this character a way I don't agree with so it ''must'' be a mistake on their end." {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:44, November 30, 2023 (EST)
::While it's not unreasonable to assume it's a nod to the cows, it ''is'' unreasonable to assume that the name "Moo Moo Farm" means "a farm of Moo Moos" rather than "a farm of a generic animal that says moo." The point is more that far more sources of a higher priority ''do'' just call them cows, so saying that they should be called "Moo Moos" because it's the outlier doesn't make sense to me. Just because it's capitalized doesn't make it "proper" or "correct," which seems to be what the argument above for it was mostly based around. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:55, November 30, 2023 (EST)

== Move back to cow ==

{{TPP}}
This has been bugging me for a long while. These are cows, and "cow" is their primary name. "Moo Moo" is a phrase ''associated'' with them, because they're cows - so it's used for [[Moo Moo Farm]], [[Moo Moo Meadows]], and a few other cow-themed things like a racing suit. It is ''not'' intended to be their actual "name," and the only thing that has used it as such was a couple third-party guidebooks whose author apparently decided to read between lines that weren't there. All those "names in other languages" just come from the aforementioned farm courses, ''also'' reading between lines that aren't there.

'''Proposer''': {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': June 10, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Moo Moove it back where it belongs!
#{{user|Blinker}} - Per proposal and my comment below.
#{{user|Seandwalsh}} – Per Proposal. The Racing Suit has the Moo Moo Meadows Milk logo too, that’s what it's referencing. They've only been called cows in direct sources. Cut and dry.
<s>#{{user|DrippingYellow}} - I'm inclinded to agree here because ''unlike'' Frog (Yoshi's Story), we don't even have any sources for calling these Moo Moos other than the one Prima guide. Technically "cow" should be first anyway under the current naming priority rules, since game manuals are considered highest priority under only the games.</s><br>
<s>#{{user|Super Mario RPG}} - This is a similar case to [[Frog (Yoshi's Story)]] in that an onomatopoeia is used for a species' name, only this time it's localized. Localization or not, any generic species bearing the name of their onomatopoeia, whether fictional or real, do not merit enough distinctions for their own article.</s>

===Oppose===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} IMO it's even more speculative to dismiss the many uses of Moo Moo out of hand than it is to just say that's what they're meant to be called. The Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit being a clear depiction of the cow seals it for me.
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Per Waluigi Time, I wasn't aware of the direct use of Moo Moo to refer to the cow design in-game. It's either that, or the Moo Moo Suit is the ''only'' suit in [[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]] not named after the subject it is based on. Which do you think is more likely?
#{{User|Hewer}} Per all, flat out ignoring the in-game, recent usage of the name for the Mii suit feels like speculative confirmation bias. I have no idea what reason we have to doubt "Moo Moo" being the name. Sure, it's not a very creative name...but even if that was relevant, the proposal is to move it to "cow", which is even more generic.
#{{User|MegaBowser64}} Per all, plus it's way too cute of a name to kill!
# {{User|PrincessPeachFan}}: Yeeeeeaaaaahhhhh, no. In-game, and it's a more unique name than just "cow".
#{{User|Sdman213}}: Per all.
#{{User|Mario}} Per comment above. "Inference dictates "Moo Moo" is the sound a cow makes so it's not unreasonable to assume it's referring to the cows. I know speculation is like a dirty word on this wiki, but I think this discussion is overly cautious about nomenclature here." The comments section is overthinking this (no offense intended!😅) . If we get more contradicting evidence that this is a "cow" and not a "Moo Moo", we'll move. So far, the evidence has been a mix of ambiguous and support, so I lean here. Not a big deal if the names end up wrong in the future.
#{{User|Nintendo101}} Per my comments below. From the material available to us, I personally believe "Moo Moo" and "cows" are in synonymous use in both Japanese and English localizations. Because Moo Moo is the more original name, sees more consistent in-game use than "cow", and the narrow scope of the article, I think it is beneficial for the wiki to retain Moo Moo as the preferred name. (Also, personally, I feel like I have to make too many mental gymnastics to believe "Moo Moo" is only a brand or sponsorship, especially considering quite a few ''Mario Kart'' sponsors incorporate the actual names of characters, and "Moo Moo" is used in ''Woolly World'' without the brand itself being present at all. Why wouldn't Moo Moo be an acceptable name for the cows?)
#{{User|Arend}} I believe things like the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit or the Moo Moo Offroader pretty much confirm that these cows are named Moo Moos (or, at the very least, the terms "cow" and "Moo Moo" are being used interchangeably for these cattle).
#{{User|LadySophie17}} Per all.
#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all--if Moo Moo is being used outside the Kart games to describe cows, we don't exactly buy the idea that Moo Moo is ''just'' an in-universe branding thing.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all, particularly the Moo Moo costumes in ''<strike>Mario Kart 8</strike> Mario Kart Tour'' and ''Yoshi's Woolly World''. Presuming that Moo Moo is only a brand name is at least as speculative as understanding this to be the name of the cows.
#{{User|Okapii}} Per all; others have made this argument but assuming the "Moo Moo"" relates to an in-universe brand feels more speculative than assuming it relates to the animals themselves, especially given the Mii Racing Suit.
#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Per everyone; this is a really silly proposal.
#{{User|EleCyon}} Per all. It is weird to call the term Moo Moo like it's a brand name only. I don't think anyone else in the Mario fandom thinks that either - Moo Moo would be a more straightforward fancy name to refer to a farm animal in the Mario universe, under the same jurisdiction that [[Li'l Oink]]s are named as such in ''[[Paper Mario]]''.
#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} Per all.
#{{User|YoYo}} and lets rename Koopa Troopa to Turtle while we're at it? per all

===Comments===
It'd probably be worth exploring whether "Moo Moo" is used elsewhere for these animals, perhaps on the Internet Archives or Wayback Machine for past ''Mario Kart'' titles. Citing only one source does not necessarily mean no other ones exist. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 21:06, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
:All MK64 materials at the very least, from the manual to the guide to the website, just use "cow." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:10, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
:Update: The ''Wii'' PRIMA guide uses "Moo Moos" too at one point... but the Nintendo-based websites for the game used "cow." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:43, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
::I'm not sure how much oversight [[Prima Games]] is given with these names, especially in 2008 when the MKW guide was published. However, I do want to mention that Nintendo Power's own ''Mario Kart 64'' guidebook does not even mention the animals. This makes sense considering the cattle are decorative elements. However, it refers to the hazardous [[Monty Mole|Chubby]]s simply as "moles" in the Moo Moo Farms section. In general, I am not positive that Nintendo consistently refers to subjects with their "official" names, especially if they are used in marketing material for subjects comparable to ones found in the real world. I don't even think they do this in the scripts of their own games. This is a bit tangential, but iirc, [[Rocto]]s were known as "octopuses" on the wiki because that was the most discrete name used by a Toad in ''Super Mario Galaxy'', where they could have introduced that enemy with its official name at any point if they wanted to. So while this animal is most definitely a cow and referred to as such, I don't know if Moo Moo is an "incorrect" name, especially since it is used in contexts where there is no farm or meadows, like in ''Yoshi's Woolly World'' or ''Mario Kart Tour''. (For ''Woolly World'', the connotation of a "Moo Moo Yoshi" alongside a "Shy Guy Yoshi" or "Cookie Yoshi", is that "Moo Moo" refers to the reference for the pattern, and the thing itself can comfortably be called a Moo Moo. That's not unreasonable.) It could be a "all Moo Moos are cows, but not all cows are Moo Moos" situation.
::Then again, the [[horse]]s in ''[[Mario Sports Superstars]]'' and [[goat]]s from [[Daisy Hills]] are given comparable designs to these animals, but they are not given cute names like it was. I would be curious to know if there's a context where these cattle show up in an official capacity alongside other farm animals and the names that they use there. Not sure if such a context exists though. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:10, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
:::Yeah, similarly, I recall Cheep Cheeps being called just "fish" several times in Mario Odyssey despite also being called Cheep Cheeps in the same game. But I'm not sure what bearing the horses and goats not having unique names has on whether Moo Moos have a unique name. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:46, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::I only bring up horses and goats because - to me at least - they seem to be comparably designed and that was probably intentional. The decision to just give them simple names as oppose to Nah Nahs or Gruff Gruffs could indicate the interpretation of Moo Moo as the animal's name is a misread. (I am personally leaning towards "cow" and "Moo Moo" being synonyms, which I elaborate on below.) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:40, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

@DrippingYellow I think it's more likely it's named after the Moo Moo "brand," so to speak. As in, Moo Moo Farm and Moo Moo Meadows and the advertisements for it seen throughout the game. Note that the "suit" portion is themed more after a farmer. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:20, May 26, 2024 (EDT)
:So interpreting Moo Moo as the name of the cows is an unacceptably speculative reading between lines, but interpreting it as the name of the "brand" that apparently exists is just fine because it supports your case? Where does the line get drawn here? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:42, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::Considering the Koopaling suits are themed heavily after the sponsors, I don't think it's at all out there. And as mentioned below, the "Pikmin Suit" is clearly based on Olimar. I think the "Moo Moo" in the suit's name is too ambiguous to say it's definitely referring to the cows' "name." That it ''can'' be interpreted in more than one way is why I'd prefer to go with the more cautious option. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:42, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::Heavily featuring the sponsors yes, named after them no. I feel like it being the name of the cow is the significantly more likely interpretation just based on the naming of all the other suits - to my knowledge, the Pikmin Suit is literally the only one based on something specific to not be named after that thing, so it's very much the exception and not the rule, and even then I explained below how that can still make sense, whereas it takes big stretches and between-line-reading reading to interpret the Moo Moo Mii racing suit as not referring to the cow that has been previously named a Moo Moo which it depicts. The simplest explanation is usually the best one. Also, even if we do for whatever reason reject this clear instance of the Moo Moo name, I don't really see what claim the "Cow" name has over it, given all the article's sources cited for it seem to be of similar calibre to those for Moo Moo. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:47, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::Named by a third-party source, though. For the record, I had forgotten how the suits worked when I initially made the proposal - and images weren't working as my internet was over the monthly data allowance policy (it reset last night) and I was lucky to even get basic HTML - so I'll admit the proposal has substantially less ground than I thought it did initially. If, however, something like the NoA Twitter <s>advertises</s> describes the suit as "based off those lovable Moo Moos" or something like that, I'll abort the proposal, no questions asked. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:16, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

For what it's worth, they are referred to as "cows" in ''Nintendo Badge Arcade'' (I've added the source to the page), which may be the most recent game to directly refer to them (2015). As a result, they could have been renamed to Moo Moos for ''Mario Kart 8'' (2014), generically referred to as cows (2015), and then referred to for the Moo Moo Suit in ''Mario Kart Tour''/''8 Deluxe'' (2022-23). Alternatively, "Moo Moos" (2014) is a naming error altogether, and the Moo Moo Yoshi/Suit are referring to the cow-like Yoshi design and the Moo Moo brand of milk. I believe this is what the debate boils down to now. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:02, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

@Super Mario RPG: You seem to have misunderstood the proposal. It's not to delete or merge this page, it's just to move it to "Cow", so we aren't arguing about whether they "merit enough distinctions for their own article". This is unlike the Yoshi's Story Frog situation, there's no other generic cow article to merge it to. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:42, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

I have a few comments:
* I doubt that the Yoshi design in Wooly World is named or designed after the cows from the Mario Kart series specifically. Mostly because it does not look like them (pink muzzle rather than beige, beige hoofs rather than gray, no collar), but also because the shared name isn't consistent across languages.
* On the other hand, there is a [[List of crafts in Yoshi's Crafted World|craft]] in Crafted World simply called "cow", whose design closely matches the Mario Kart series design, just more simplified.
* Regarding the Mii Racing Suit, I'd like to point out the existence of the Pikmin Suit, which, contrary to its name, is modeled after Captain Olimar's spacesuit (the only Pikmin in the suit is a small decoration on the back of the helmet).
[[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:23, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
<gallery>
MK8 Asset Model Moo Moo (White).png|This (?)...
YWW 1-5 Moo Moo Yoshi.jpg|...doesn't look like this (Moo Moo Yoshi)...
YMCcraft01.png|...but it does look like this (Cow).
File:MK8D Mii Racing Suit Olimar.png|This is not a Pikmin.
</gallery>
:I kind of agree that counting the Yoshi's Woolly World thing as an appearance of it is a stretch, yeah. I doubt that it was specifically based on these Mario Kart cows. But I don't really agree that the Mii suit name should be ignored - just looking at the names of the other Mii suits shows that you that ones not named after the thing they depict are very much the exception and not the rule, and even then, "Pikmin Suit" could still be referring to the Pikmin on the suit, or the Pikmin series itself like with the Animal Crossing Suit. I don't see what "Moo Moo Suit" could be referring to besides the cow, short of outright speculation like "the Moo Moo brand" or whatever. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 07:44, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::I feel like it is worth pointing out that the Moo Moo Yoshi retains the name in the [[List of Yoshi designs in Yoshi's Woolly World|original Japanese]], so it was not a haphazard localization choice made by Nintendo of America. And unlike ''Mario Kart'', there are no brands or sponsorships in the game. The Yoshi is patterned just like a cow. Further, unlike ''Mario Kart 8'', there is no "Pikmin Yoshi" or "Animal Crossing Yoshi", there is an Olimar Yoshi and a Villager Yoshi. That would tell me that "Moo Moo" and "cow" are interchangeable names for the animal both in Japanese and English. One is not inherently superior to the other, and this seems to be reflected in the available promotional material and paratext. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 12:40, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::Yoshi pattern names are a little less uniform than Mii racing suit names overall, from "Yoshimelon" to "Playtime Yoshi" to "Frostbite Yoshi" to "Painty Yoshi" to "Spooky Yoshi", so I feel like "Moo Moo Yoshi" can fit in with that (the amiibo Yoshi patterns are named more normally, but Moo Moo Yoshi's not one of them). Mii racing suits, meanwhile, are practically always just named after the thing they depict. I don't mean to suggest Moo Moo Yoshi was some kind of localisation failure, just that a quite generic cow onomatopoeia happened to be used to refer to multiple unrelated cartoonish cow things. Anyway, I agree that "Moo Moo" and "cow" are pretty interchangeable, but don't know if I agree that neither name can have reason to take priority over the other - as I mentioned above, Mario Odyssey calls Cheep Cheeps both "Cheep Cheeps" and "fish". They ''are'' fish, so it's not an error, but we're not about to start calling them "fish" when talking about that game. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:05, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

: Moo Moo's more recent and an '''in-game''' name and it's a more unique name than just Cow. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:05, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::Except "Moo Moo" is never really used as a name '''in-game''', only as an adjective for things related to the cows, following the same naming pattern as "Moo Moo Farm". Whenever the cows specifically are referred to '''in-game''', they are simply called "cows" (see Nintendo Badge Arcade and Yoshi's Crafted World). I think that matters more than how "unique" the name is. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:12, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::That very purposefully ignores the '''in-game''' Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit, which, as already described, is significantly more likely to be an '''in-game''' instance of referring to the cows themselves as "Moo Moos" than anything else given how Mii suits are generally named. Literally the one single non-colour Mii suit named with an adjective that I know of is the Hylian Suit, which itself sticks out like a sore thumb among every single other suit being named after the character or other thing it's based on. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:19, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::I still see the suit as being named after the farm, myself. I don't like having to "derive" names because they're used on other related things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:26, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
:::::I still say it's far more likely to be named after the cow it depicts than the farm that isn't even in Mario Kart Tour, and I'm not sure what there is pointing to the latter over the former. Calling it "derived" is also a stretch - again, look at literally every other racing suit name in Tour, they all follow a very rigid format of "Thing Mii Racing Suit". If it was our only source for Moo Moo being the cow's name, that'd be one thing, but it adds to the previous sources we already had for it, and I see no reason to doubt it. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:37, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
::::::I'll reiterate what I said above this thread so it's not missed (and because it's relevant here too): <tt>For the record, I had forgotten how the suits worked when I initially made the proposal - and images weren't working as my internet was over the monthly data allowance policy (it reset last night) and I was lucky to even get basic HTML - so I'll admit the proposal has substantially less ground than I thought it did initially. If, however, something like the NoA Twitter <s>advertises</s> describes the suit as "based off those lovable Moo Moos" or something like that, I'll abort the proposal, no questions asked.</tt> [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:17, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

I decided to look at ''Tour'' footage for backshots of the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit, since I recall that certain Mii Racing Suits are plastered with a sponsor logo, particularly on the backside. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8bS_bKVSps&t=1347s This footage would probably suffice]: shown here, the back only features the face of the cow, but not really the [[List of sponsors debuting in Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe#Moo Moo Meadows Milk|Moo Moo Meadows Milk]] brand. While a clever consideration, it's kinda weird to have a Mii Suit named after a brand: it's not like the Roaring Racer Mii Suit is called the Singapore Mii Suit or something (basing on the fact that it has a Singapore sigil on the back).<br>Also, just because the Moo Moo Suit was given creative liberties by including beige "farmer's overalls" doesn't mean that the name doesn't refer to the cow. Several Mii Suits have been given creative liberties: the Bowser Mii Suit had been given a leather biker jacket, despite Bowser never wearing one, the Monty Mole Mii Suit was given dark brown overalls (probably referencing mud), the Goomba Mii Suit is light brown and dark brown with a jagged pattern, and the Koopa Clown Mii Suit has a sky pattern.<br>Also, not sure if it means much, but the [[Moo Moo Offroader]] also exists. {{User:Arend/sig}} 12:44, May 27, 2024 (EDT)
:(re:Olimar racing suit) "Pikmin" just generally is an encompassing marketing term sometimes (not always, see Woolly World) used to characterize Olimar, even if it's just him (Olimar is called "pikmin" in the file names too in Smash Bros. for what it's worth, but this may or may not be relevant information), so I guess that's why the term is used. It doesn't seem very relevant to bring it up in tandem with Moo Moo though. {{User:Mario/sig}} 12:52, May 27, 2024 (EDT)

IDK, I had assumed it was something like the "Moo Moo Milk" from Pokemon... which despite its name, isn't from a "Moo Moo," it's from a Miltank. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:43, May 28, 2024 (EDT)
:We only know it comes from a Miltank because of that being explicitly stated. And these cows are stated to be Moo Moos. I agree that "Moo Moo Farm" and "Moo Moo Meadows" on their own don't confirm anything about what the cows are called, but that's ignoring the instances of them actually being called Moo Moos. Like I said in my vote, it feels confirmation bias-y. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:30, May 29, 2024 (EDT)

@Seandwalsh: As has already been extensively gone over in the comments, the Moo Moo suit would be very much an outlier among other Mii suits if "Moo Moo" wasn't the name of the cow. What leads you to believe it's more likely referring to a tiny logo on the suit than the cow that the suit is based on? Why is it that this particular suit has to be named after something other than the character it depicts? Are any other Mii suits named after the logos on them rather than the thing they depict? And what leads you to consider only the sources for cow "direct sources"? What reason have we to doubt the sources for Moo Moo? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 09:28, June 1, 2024 (EDT)

== 4/3/2025 - Rename article to "Cow" ==

With new footage from Mario Kart World, it seems that this character is being referred to as "Cow".
Source: https://x.com/ign/status/1907780418247561520?s=46&t=l-t5CyErOoR-MsRwB9kTHA [[Special:Contributions/50.203.34.186|50.203.34.186]] 10:33, April 3, 2025 (EDT)

== Mario Kart World - Cow Confirmed ==

Today's Treehouse livestream showcased Mario Kart World footage, where the results screen confirms the playable character's name is "Cow", not "Moo Moo".

As per wiki guidelines this article shouldn't be updated until the game releases, but it looks like we finally have our answer :P

--[[User:Steepien|Steepien]] ([[User talk:Steepien|talk]]) 10:33, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
:[https://tenor.com/view/ha-emperors-new-groove-llama-laugh-funny-gif-17446301 Once again Docky's been vindicated]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:00, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
::Yeah, i myself had some doubts about the legitimacy of her being named Moo Moo more recently. 😅 --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:03, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
:::Honestly, though, I think it ''should'' be moved regardless, considering this very firmly indicates "Moo Moo" was never intended to be taken as a name for this subject. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:47, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
::::But if it was never intended to be its name, then ''why the heck are the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit and Moo Moo Offroader called the Moo Moo Mii Racing Suit and the Moo Moo Offroader, and NOT just the Cow Mii Racing Suit and the Cow Offroader?!'' NONE of these subject suggest ANY connection to Moo Moo Farm or Moo Moo Meadows (or Moo Moo Meadows Milk) beyond the cows that happen to roam there, and neither course is in ''Tour'' to begin with, so it just feels very random to name these things as such if "Moo Moo" was never intended to be the cow's name. That's like calling the [[Penguin Slider]] the "Sherbet Slider", after {{classic link|N64|Sherbet Land}}. {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:53, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
:::::....For the record, I'm not ''against'' moving it back to "Cow" in light of this recent revelation, I just think it should be mentioned that they've occasionally been referred to as "Moo Moos". The aforementioned Moo Moo Suit and Offroader, as well as ''Woolly World's'' Moo Moo Yoshi, are sort of evident that cows are sometimes referred to as such in this series. {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:58, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
::::::The suit, sure, but the Offroader and Yoshi look nothing like the recurring Cow design... Anyways, "cow" is still the most common name, so it should probably be used for most of the article. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 15:14, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
:::::::Yeah, let's wait for the game to be released just in case there are any last kinks (like different languages using different names...) but then it should be moved to "Cow" and mentioned that they're sometimes referred to as "Moo Moos". In terms of why there's a discrepancy...it's potentially due to localization not being consistent. Oh well. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:23, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
::::::::Nintendo should've heeded to my suggestion at these being called "Cow Cow". {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:03, April 3, 2025 (EDT)
::::::::All this excitement over Cow, and no one's asking if it also means that Sidestepper will be back to Crab. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:37, April 4, 2025 (EDT)
:::::::::The Treehouse footage confirmed "Sidestepper". {{User:Hewer/sig}} 13:30, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
::::::::::Not to mention Paper Mario: The Origami King uses the "Sidestepper" name in-game. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 19:24, April 8, 2025 (EDT)
:::::And once again, the Pikmin suit shows Olimar, not a Pikmin. They just went with a recognizable name to be clear it's the Moo Moo-''associated'' cows. Also, the penguin one is a bad example since their relevance to Mario predates Sherbet Land. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:32, April 3, 2025 (EDT)