Editing Talk:Monty Mole

Are the moles in Moleville Monty Moles, or just plain old Molepeople?  I wasn't sure if I should add them here or they merit their own article [[User:Almighty Rajah|Almighty Rajah]] 14:40, 2 August 2006 (EDT)
:They are a seperate people. Perhaps [[Mole folk]] could be used as a good article title... -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]


Just to clarify, those weren't Monty Moles that handed out prizes.  They were referred to with another name, but I can't remember it offhand.  At any rate, it's probably not a Monty Mole, because very few enemies in the Mushroom Kingdom appear at all in the Beanbean Kingdom . . . Bob-omb is the only one I can remember.
[[User:Waluigi Freak 99|Waluigi Freak 99]] 20:28, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

==Discussion from Talk:Chubby==
<span style="color:#555">What is the source for this name? I thought they were just regular Monty Moles. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

:<span style="color:#555">The Instruction Manual for Mario Kart 64 says under the Moo Moo Farm description clearly states that the mole's name is Chubby.
:<span style="color:#555">[[User:Waluigi Freak 99|Waluigi Freak 99]] 20:06, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

::<span style="color:#555">PS: It's easy to get the two mixed up, since, in the Moo Moo Farm remake in Mario Kart DS, they were called Monties, but in Mario Kart 64, it's called Chubby.
::<span style="color:#555">[[User:Waluigi Freak 99|Waluigi Freak 99]] 20:09, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

:::<span style="color:#555">So wouldn't the second name be canon, as it is the most updated version? Regardless, perhaps this information could be added to the Monty Mole page. I don't think it is significant enough to receive it's own article. If this info is added to Monty Mole page, you can say that the Monty Moles in this game were referred to as Chubbies. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

::::<span style="color:#555">True.  OK.  Go ahead and delete it.  I'll add the info to the Monty Mole page.
::::<span style="color:#555">[[User:Waluigi Freak 99|Waluigi Freak 99]] 20:18, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

<span style="color:#555"><big>Deleted</big><br>
<span style="color:#555">OK, it's gone.  Information to Monty Mole added.
[[User:Waluigi Freak 99|Waluigi Freak 99]] 20:29, 9 September 2006 (EDT)</span>

In the official Nintendo Power guide (1997) simply calls them moles and mole holes, though it's safe to assume that they are Monty Moles, the common enemy first found in SMW. <span style="font-family:Kunstler Script; color:#006633;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Wayoshi|W]]'''ayoshi</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Wayoshi|T]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Wayoshi|C]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Emailuser/Wayoshi|@]] )</small> 23:38, 9 September 2006 (EDT)

==<span style="color:#Black">Mario Party Series==
<span style="color:Black">Didn't monty moles appear in mario party games?{{User:Fg/sig}}

Sometimes, I've only seen them in [[Mario Party 7]], they are in two mini-games, and one hosts a coin-giveaway in [[Pyramid Park]].

Oh, yeah. They appear in a mini-game in [[Mario Party 6]] called....called..... [[Mole-It]]

It's actually [[Mole-it!]], and such information is already discussed in their respective places. {{User:Monty Mole/sig}} Irony, no?

Didn't they also appear in [[Monty's Revenge]]?{{User:Fg/sig}}

==Tattle==
Why is there no Paper Mario tattle?{{User:Lario/sig}}

Be '''bold''' and add it in there.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 13:12, 4 October 2009 (EDT)

== Split Undergrunt from Monty Mole ==

{{settledTPP}}
<span style="color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">Split into Undergrunt 8-0</span>

In the offical PRIMA game guide for [[Super Mario Galaxy]] and [[Super Mario Galaxy 2|it's sequel]] these enemies were listed as "Undergrunts". Not "Monty Mole". Not "some kind of mole speicies", Undergrunt. Undergrunt Gunners have their own page. So why don't Undergrunts?

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Superboo922}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' August 3 2010, 23:59

===Support===
#{{User|Superboo922}} Per me.
#{{User|Ratfink43}} This makes sense. I doubt Undergrunts are Monty moles
#{{User|Zero777}} I am Zero! Per all. Zero signing out.
#{{User|Arend}} Per all, they look different. First, they have helmets. Second, they have different colors. Third, Undergrunt's eyes are open, and the Monty Mole's are closed. Always. Also, they DO different. Monty Moles pop out, while Undergrunts dig underground.
#{{User|Supermariofan14}} Even if they were Monty Moles they're totally different.
#{{User|Booderdash}} Definitly, per everyone
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.
#{{User|Dry dry king}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===

===Comments===

== Super Paper Mario ==

Did they really not appear in Super Paper Mario? Or haven't they simply not been added yet?
I'm asking because there are sprites of Monty Mole in the game: http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/superpapermario/sheet/26974
It could be added as trivia if you think it's not worth being in the article.
--[[User:Nelde|Nelde]] 14:48, 17 January 2011 (EST)
:It appears so. I think those sprites might be fake. The body style of Monty is very different than in other artwork of him that is confirmed official. {{User:Bowser's luma/sig}}
::I have no doubt that they are real. I also found them in RetrieverII's directory: http://www.hocuspocus.taloncrossing.com/rii/pm3/Unused/ He ripped those textures straight from the game's data. I think it's more plausible that the different body style you mentioned comes from the fact that they didn't make it into the final game, although for me they don't look very different... --[[User:Nelde|Nelde]] 16:00, 17 January 2011 (EST)
:::Then it probably was removed and it should be mentioned that Monty appeared in the beta version but was removed. {{User:Bowser's luma/sig}}

== Paper Mario ==
According to [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlL85q7r7iQ this video], the palette-swapped Monty Moles in Flower Fields are called Flower Choropū in the Japanese version. That should probably be mentioned here. --[[User:Kahran042|Kahran042]] 07:37, 21 April 2011 (EDT)

I would agree with you, but I can't read Japanese. Perhaps someone else who can read Japanese can confirm this? If you feel this is an accurate translation, you can add it to the article.--{{User|Knife}} 11:19, 4 July 2011 (EDT)

== Copied from Wikipedia ==

I notced that the very first paragraph is copied from Wikipedia. Here is a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recurring_enemies_in_the_Mario_series#Monty_Mole

I attempted to change the text so that it would not appear to be so similar, but that seems to have been undone. So... here is the text I propose. Anyone care to change what we have to something like I've written?

''Monty Moles''' (also known as '''Gophers''' in the [[Super Mario World (television series)|''Super Mario World'' TV series]]) are moles that appear in several [[Mario (series)|''Mario'']] games; first appearing in ''[[Super Mario World]]'' and then in later titles like ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]''. In each game their attacks will vary. In earlier games they pop up out of gopher holes and chase the player. In later games they pop up and throw rocks before burrowing back into their holes, like a coward.
 		 		
Monty Moles have been given major roles, for instance in ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' they acted as bosses. Two of them can be encountered, both using a cannon to attack Mario with [[Bullet Bill]]s and [[Bob-omb]]s. As such, Monty Moles appear to be technologically savvy.
{{unsigned|Ultra Magnotron}}

:It isn't copied from wikipedia, and your edit was reverted because it didn't improve the grammar much, if any, and removed a good deal of content that belonged at the top of the article. The article is fine as it is. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

==Split the Monty Mole variant in [[Flower Fields]] in ''[[Paper Mario]]'' from Monty Mole==
I created this proposal due to [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=17977.0 a thread] on the forum. I recommend checking the thread out first before reading this proposal.

There are multiple reasons why I want to split the Monty Moles that appear in Flower Fields from this article. First off, the Monty Moles in Flower Fields have a different appearance then the Monty Moles in [[Mt. Rugged]], as well as different stats and different tattles. Secondly, in Japan, Paper Mario's country of origin, they have different names, indicating that they are supposed to be different characters. Third, this has been done before at least once. [[Dry Bones (Teehee Valley)]] was created since it had a difference appearance and different stats than the other [[Dry Bones]] in [[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]], as well as a different name in Japan. I think [[Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)]] is also an example, but I'm still confused. Yes, there were the failed proposals to split the color variants of [[Klobber]] and [[Krochead]], but the only difference was appearance and actions. Since Paper Mario is an RPG rather than a side-scroller, we have more to work with, like stats and the enemy description (or Tattle, as it's called in the game). Yes, there are other RPG enemies that have variants but are not split, like the two [[Chuck Guy]]s in Superstar Saga, but I think that's due to nobody bothering to make a proposal. Now that I've rambled, let me set down the choices: Split the Flower Fields Monty Mole, or do nothing.

'''Proposer''': {{User|GreenDisaster}}<br>
'''Deadline''': August 1, 2012, 23:59 GMT

===Split===
#{{User|GreenDisaster}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Master R.O.B}} Per him.
#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per proposal.

===Do Nothing===

===Comments===
@@ Line 43: / Line 43: @@
 == Split Undergrunt from Monty Mole ==
-{{settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0|split into undergrunt}}
+{{settledTPP}}
+<span style="color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;font-size:150%">Split into Undergrunt 8-0</span>
 In the offical PRIMA game guide for [[Super Mario Galaxy]] and [[Super Mario Galaxy 2|it's sequel]] these enemies were listed as "Undergrunts". Not "Monty Mole". Not "some kind of mole speicies", Undergrunt. Undergrunt Gunners have their own page. So why don't Undergrunts?
@@ Line 85: / Line 87: @@
 I attempted to change the text so that it would not appear to be so similar, but that seems to have been undone. So... here is the text I propose. Anyone care to change what we have to something like I've written?
-''Monty Moles''' (also known as '''Gophers''' in the [[Super Mario World (television series)|''Super Mario World'' TV series]]) are moles that appear in several [[Mario (franchise)|''Mario'']] games; first appearing in ''[[Super Mario World]]'' and then in later titles like ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]''. In each game their attacks will vary. In earlier games they pop up out of gopher holes and chase the player. In later games they pop up and throw rocks before burrowing back into their holes, like a coward.
+''Monty Moles''' (also known as '''Gophers''' in the [[Super Mario World (television series)|''Super Mario World'' TV series]]) are moles that appear in several [[Mario (series)|''Mario'']] games; first appearing in ''[[Super Mario World]]'' and then in later titles like ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' and ''[[New Super Mario Bros. Wii]]''. In each game their attacks will vary. In earlier games they pop up out of gopher holes and chase the player. In later games they pop up and throw rocks before burrowing back into their holes, like a coward.
 Monty Moles have been given major roles, for instance in ''[[Super Mario Sunshine]]'' they acted as bosses. Two of them can be encountered, both using a cannon to attack Mario with [[Bullet Bill]]s and [[Bob-omb]]s. As such, Monty Moles appear to be technologically savvy.
@@ Line 93: / Line 95: @@
 ==Split the Monty Mole variant in [[Flower Fields]] in ''[[Paper Mario]]'' from Monty Mole==
-{{settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|7-0|split}}
 I created this proposal due to [http://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=17977.0 a thread] on the forum. I recommend checking the thread out first before reading this proposal.
@@ Line 106: / Line 106: @@
 #{{User|Master R.O.B}} Per him.
 #{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per proposal.
-#{{user|Walkazo}} - Per proposal (and by extension, per what I said in the original thread).
-#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per all.
-#{{User|Tails777}} We have seperate articles for the Dry Bones in TeeHee Valley and normal Dry Bones. Per all.
-#{{User|Blue CosmicToad}} Per proposal, and Walkazo in the comments.
 ===Do Nothing===
 ===Comments===
-Just for the record, yes, [[Piranha Plant (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)]] ''is'' another example of the "whatever language makes the most sense is the ones we use" approach to splits and merges. It got its own page because its Japanese name is unique (''Killer Pakkun'', rather than ''Pakkun Furawā''), letting us act on the other unique aspects (unusually strong, very specific location). [[Pale Piranha]] is the opposite: it had the same ''Pakkun Furawā'' Japanese name, however its unique English name let us keep it split to reflect the fact that it doesn't look anything like a normal Piranha Plant. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 16:56, 18 July 2012 (EDT)
-I'm not going to be able to create the article due to my vacation. I'll have access to a computer, but it's really not the greatest. [[User:GreenDisaster|GreenDisaster]] ([[User talk:GreenDisaster|talk]]) 17:30, 30 July 2012 (EDT)
-== The infobox ==
-It's broken. Can someone fix it up? [[User:Jeansowaty|Jeansowaty]] ([[User talk:Jeansowaty|talk]]) 09:13, 4 August 2013 (EDT)Jeansowaty
-:Done. {{User:World10/sig}} 09:29, 4 August 2013 (EDT)
-== Should we split the ''Mario & Luigi'' Presenters from Monty Moles? ==
-It turns out that the moles introduced in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga]]'' have a unique Japanese name as well: {{file link|MLRPG NOG Presenter.png|''Presenters'' (「プレゼンター」)}}. Considering their peculiar appearance, name and role in the games, should we split them from Monty Moles?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:42, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
-:I wouldn't mind that too much. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 20:54, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
-::Given the seeming pun off ''[[Rocky Wrench|Pu]]'' (indicating it's some manner of variation) and the resemblance to Mega Mole, seems like a good course of action. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:27, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
-:::They look different, act different, and have a different and unique Japanese name. It seems like they are intended to be separate species. I am for a split. Also, do they retain their appearance in the remake?  {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 22:42, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
-::::[https://www.spriters-resource.com/3ds/marioluigisuperstarsagabowsersminions/sheet/97887/ Kind of.] They now resemble regular Monty Moles rather than Mega Moles, but they retain the red bowtie. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 23:22, March 29, 2019 (EDT)
-:::::The questions we still need to answer are:
-::::::-Should we call these "Mole (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)" or "Presenter?"
-::::::-Should we include the remake info, since they now resemble regular ones?
-::::::-For that matter, should we take the difference in appearance into account at all, given this is the hideously off-model ''Superstar Saga'' we're talking about?
-:::::[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]])
-:::::::* From what we've seen in the case of ''Batton'' and ''Nokottasu'', the English names are pretty much placeholder names, and by the looks of it, in this case they are not capitalized. This means that we are not forced to use them as they are not meant to name the subject, just state what animal they resemble. We can of course still use them, but [[MarioWiki talk:Naming#Make an exception to source priority for articles with identical names|using ''Presenter'' from a lower priority source would be fine as well]]. [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Monty_Mole&type=revision&diff=2625830&oldid=2618799 The original proposed idea] is to use Presenter, since this is just a discussion and not a proposal, if a page is made you can start a discussion in the talk page or even immediately create a proposal to use ''mole'' if you prefer said name.
-:::::::* Unlike in the case of Turtles/Nokottasu the moles of the remake still have the red bowtie as distinguishing trait, so I see no issue in including them in the page if it is created.
-:::::::* In terms of inferring the intentions of the designers (making a unique species versus just making off-model Monty Moles), I don't think we can really do that with the material we have, it's something the developers must tell us, considering how we are missing internal names of the remake as well; until more information surfaces we should limit ourselves to the descriptive part. The work is largely done for the original version, anyway.
-:::::::These are the answers I'd give you right now, others can feel free to provide their own view, of course.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:00, March 30, 2019 (EDT)
-::::::::Though, we already have two pages using the most usable generic descriptor possible. We have [[thorny flower]] and [[rubbery bulb]]. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:03, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
-:::::::::These are different cases, due to the choices available, all of which are generic common names rather than more specific names. In any case, to be clear, I made the discussion using the ''Presenter'' name just because that name is consistent with the name proposed in the [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Monty_Mole&type=revision&diff=2625830&oldid=2618799 template] and because that name is allowed. As I said before, ''mole'' is a valid name as well, a discussion and a proposal to use said name are both allowed once the page is created. We can also use ''mole'' right away, if everyone agrees on that. I'm personally neutral on the point of the name, as I'm more interested on whether the page should be made or not. As last point, in case there are doubts because of [[MarioWiki:Proposals#Change the source priority exception to a more case-by-case basis|the new proposal]], keep in mind that ''Presenter'' comes from a guide, not an internal filename, thus falling outside of the scope of said proposal as it is currently written.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:47, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
-:::::::::::I'm neutral on Presenter, given that i know that it doesn't come from an internal filename. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:54, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
-::::::::::::My stance on file names isn't that they're automatically out, I just don't like them being used as proof for saying that something is something else that it isn't, as they generally represent a period of early development for an entity. For instance, rubbery bulb is not a mushroom in the final game. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:23, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::You also (much like me) don't like them being used to say that some of them are a subject's english name, while it's actually romanized. What do you think about cases like the "Beamer" enemies Anyways, this is getting off-topic, as well are talking about wether to split these Monty Moles or not. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:09, April 1, 2019 (EDT)
-If there aren't major issues, I think the following days I might create a page for the Presenters, basically following the content of the section we alraedy have as starting point (althoguh if I have time I'd add the sprites at least).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:42, April 8, 2019 (EDT)
-:In the end, I [[Presenter|created the page]]. Sorry for the double uploads of sprites, by the way.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:04, April 10, 2019 (EDT)
-== Paper Mario series ==
-The ''Super Paper Mario'' and ''Paper Mario: Sticker Star'' sections only talk about the fact that they are unused enemies and do not appear at all in normal gameplay. Should those be moved to Trivia or should a "other appearences" section be made? Or do we leave it as is? [[User:Mario Sakuraba|Mario Sakuraba]] ([[User talk:Mario Sakuraba|talk]]) 11:52, June 13, 2020 (EDT)
-:Per [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive 54#Determine how to handle unused appearances|this proposal]], scrapped/unused content should be put in an "Other appearances" section. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:08, June 13, 2020 (EDT)
-==Quote==
-So, can the main quote be changed to this? It talks more about Monty Moles considering the main thing about them is that they're moles.
-{{quote|You never know what you're gonna find when you you start diggin'. That's what I love about it!|Monty Mole|Paper Mario: The Origami King}} --[[User:Magma.|Magma.]] ([[User talk:Magma.|talk]]) 21:40, February 19, 2021 (EST)
-:I think the current one doesn't fit them too well, this one does much better. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 22:00, February 19, 2021 (EST)
-== Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles ==
-Should the Monty Moles from Super Mario Sunshine have their own page since they unique from normal Monty Moles? Also Monty Tank has a separate page so why not the Sunshine Monty Moles? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 01:45, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:It's hard to say, [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/archives/sunshine/ the official Japanese names list states that they are currently considered Monty Moles], and effectively ''Super Mario Sunshine'' is notorious for its off-model designs, this being retroactively explained by Nintendo as stemming from the fact that they derive from the graffiti of Bowser Jr.. Keep in mind that we have Monty Tank separate because it's a boss. The only reason to split would be their different role, in case if you think the role is enough to warrant a split and the discussion here goes nowhere, you can make a proposal.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:24, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Wait the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are from Bowser Jr.’s graffiti? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:11, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:Pretty much every enemy from Super Mario Sunshine is. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 20:12, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Also the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are bosses to [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:12, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Also wasn’t that confirmed in the Japanese Super Mario Encyclopedia (Which maybe includes the bosses as well) [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:14, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Also should something saying that the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are Bowser Jr.’s graffiti be added? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:21, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:I think it would be redundant when it applies to everything, and I'm not sure I would consider these moles bosses. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 20:27, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-Also wondering about the fact that the Sunshine Monty Moles return in Mario Power Tennis with the Gamecube/GBA era design? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:38, September 28, 2021 (EDT)
-And also would it be better if the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles are notable members? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 18:16, September 29, 2021 (EDT)
-== Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles: The Proposal ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|1-6|don't split}}
-Should the Super Mario Sunshine Monty Moles be considered notable members to Monty Moles and getting their own page (Like Monty Tank). Or should they stay as is and just be on the Monty Mole page.
-(Support is choosing the former option and opposing is choosing the latter option.)
-(Also this is my first proposal so any fixes to grammar and such are welcome.)
-'''Proposer''': [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]])<br>
-'''Deadline''': October 13, 2021, 23:59 GMT
-===Support===
-#{{user|MontyMoleLoreMaster}} - They have enough differences and are original enough to feel like they should get their own page as unique Monty Moles (The Mario Sunshine Wiggler also has their own page so why not the Mario Sunshine Monty Moles).
-===Oppose===
-#{{user|7feetunder}} ''SMS'' Wiggler is a bad example. It's Japanese name is "[[Wiggler (Super Mario Sunshine)#Names in other languages|Boss Hana-chan]]", meaning "Boss Wiggler", so it's actually a "boss" variant along the lines of [[Boss Brolder]] or [[Boss Sumo Bro]]. We split it because of that, not just because it looks different than a normal Wiggler. ''SMS'' Monty Moles are just Monty Moles, and their design isn't even that far off from their usual design compared to other enemies' ''SMS'' incarnations.
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per 7feetunder. I'd also like to note that while the "Chorobe" developmental name seems to indicate it was a variant/notable at some point in the design process, in the finished product, it is treated simply as a Monty Mole/''Choropoo''.
-#{{User|Swallow}} Monty Tank isn't a good example either since that has its own name in both Japanese and English and is a notable individual. Per all.
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per all.
-#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
-===Comments===
-Thanks for the feedback but the polls aren’t over yet. Also sorry for the bad examples. Also also I was wondering your thoughts with the Mario Power Tennis Monty Moles in cannons? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 18:27, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-:If anything that's just further proof they're the same. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:31, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-It seems like the page will stay the same so the polls will probably come to a end shortly [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 19:05, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-== Warioware Touched? ==
-For some reason Warioware Touched! is in the related articles for Monty Mole yet I never seen any Monty Moles in that game? Mind if someone explains where Monty Mole is in that game? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 19:09, September 30, 2021 (EDT)
-:In the intro, Wario plays a whack-a-mole game on his DS, and it uses Monty Moles. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 09:32, October 1, 2021 (EDT)
-Is it confirmed that their Monty Moles or no? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 11:36, October 1, 2021 (EDT)
-Since those moles looked pretty generic and didn’t really look like Monty Moles. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 11:39, October 1, 2021 (EDT)
-Also about the previous question and I was wondering where Monty Mole is in Flown The Koopa (Yes Mega Mole appears but what about Monty Mole)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 09:21, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-:These questions are starting to stray from the real purpose of these talk pages a bit, which is to discuss article changes. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 09:52, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-Oh sorry about that [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 16:32, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-== Origami King Shopkeepers ==
-Should the Monty Mole Shopkeeper in Breezy Tunnel from Origami King get their own page (Like Monty Mole auctioneer) [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 16:34, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-:I'm honestly not sure why Monty Moles and their variants are the only species you're paying attention to here, but we haven't split any shopkeepers from this game because they're not significant enough. You may want to see [[MarioWiki:Minor NPCs]] regarding that. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 16:44, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-::Actually, we have already split [[Monty Mole auctioneer]] and [[Fortune Toad]]. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:42, October 3, 2021 (EDT)
-:::Those are not generic shopkeepers. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 05:47, October 3, 2021 (EDT)
-Sorry I’m just a Monty Mole fan and mainly know info on Monty Moles you know [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 17:42, October 2, 2021 (EDT)
-== Breezy Tunnel dialogue ==
-Do the Monty Moles in Breezy Tunnel have completely different dialogue in the Japanese version of the game? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 23:32, October 4, 2021 (EDT)
-:I shouldn't think so, and I don't see how that even matters. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 05:48, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-Sorry I was just thinking that new lore would be said in the Japanese versions. Know anyone who is open to translating Japanese stuff? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 18:21, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-I have a link to some of the Japanese dialogue here: https://www.marioboards.com/threads/44397/. What did it say? Also the dialogue seems different since the final line is a question. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 18:40, October 21, 2021 (EDT)
-== Super Mario-kun Update ==
-Major News! I’m adding info for Monty Mole species in the Super Mario-kun manga. I need help from people to be able to translate the pages, so I don’t get any wrong names and also have additional info. I will add other Mario Manga in the future but for now it will just be Super Mario-kun. If I missed a appearance please let me know (I check frequently so I will most likely see it). Also any volumes I haven’t wrote yet don’t add the info late, I will add the info eventually, I’m just doing one volume at a time (unless of course I skip past a volume). And finally all the pages (physically and digitally) I know with Monty Mole species will be linked here: https://mega.nz/fm/jKZXCYiQ. If I miss any additional pages that or for info on other enemies use this link for other scans: https://mega.nz/folder/wYxW2SID#GewBp2sKOScNOFbR8PLr5w/folder/ERRSSJLB. Any questions or translations will be helpful and welcome. I hope you enjoy the new info [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:14, October 5, 2021 (EDT)
-Should the Monty Mole Stone Spirits get their own article? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 21:30, October 8, 2021 (EDT)
-== Consider Wether Or Not The Moles In The Opening Of Warioware Touched! Are Monty Moles ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|no quorum|3-0-0}}
-Some people, say that the moles in Warioware Touched! are Monty Moles. So I made this to see how many people agree or disagree on this.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|MontyMoleLoreMaster}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': November 9, 2021, 23:59 GMT
-===Option 1: The moles seen in the opening for Warioware Touched! are generic moles unrelated to Monty Mole.===
-#{{User|MontyMoleLoreMaster}} I think the biggest reason on why they seem to be generic moles, is because they are only listed as moles in the credits and not credited as Monty Moles. Monty Moles have been referred to generic names in the past, but they still kept a design that still resembled them. The moles here look extremely generic with the only thing they have in common with Monty Mole is the fur color I guess? Besides that, they just seem to be generic moles only used for the intro to the game. Warioware has used generic moles like in the microgame [[Hit Parade (WarioWare: Smooth Moves)|Hit Parade]] from WarioWare: Smooth Moves (ironically the mole there looks more like Monty Mole then the ones in this opening. Still very generic, but they at least have a little more resemblance). I would also want to point out that the MarioWiki made a major misconception for years saying the moles in Super Mario Galaxy were Monty Moles or a species to them, despite nothing claiming them being the exact same or related besides a few similarities and Undergrunt Gunner’s German name. Of course this has been resolved, but this can prove that we shouldn’t say generic moles like this are Monty Moles. NES Open Tournament Golf gets a pass since the Mole there has more resemblance to Monty Mole, and it being referenced in the KC Mario volume for the game. I know Rocky Wrench did appear in Warioware Gold, but that was way more obvious. So yeah, I think the moles in Warioware Tocuhed! are just some generic moles that have little to no resemblance to Monty Mole. I don’t think a few moles that only appeared in a short cutscene that bare little resemblance to Monty Mole should be classified as them.
-#{{User|Hewer}} I for some reason remembered these moles looking much more like Monty Moles than they actually do, but after checking again, they probably are just generic moles given their generic design and generic name in the credits.
-#{{User|Somethingone}} Per MMLM.
-===Option 2: The moles seen in the opening for Warioware Touched! are in fact Monty Moles.===
-===Option 3: You have no opinion on this and don’t care on which answer is picked.===
-===Comments===
-I don't really think Option 3 is necessary, since people who don't care don't have a reason to vote. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 05:41, October 27, 2021 (EDT)
-Is this really necessary? Those WarioWare Touched moles already are not on this page and the question doesn't appear to have been seriously brought up here or in the article's history.  TPPs are meant to settle disagreements regarding article contents, not be public opinion polls. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 11:08, October 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:I believe this proposal was made because the WarioWare Touched navbox is on the article. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:22, October 29, 2021 (EDT)
-== Mario Party 4 ==
-Monty Mole’s encyclopedia entry in Mario Party Superstars says that they appeared in Mario Party 4. It says it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJM9kVvVOlI. Does anyone have info for if Monty Mole appeared in Mario Party 4 or not? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 18:34, October 28, 2021 (EDT)
-:Good question, I have an [[Talk:Snufit#Reopening a can of worms + Yurei Mucho name source.|interest]] in knowing too. From the look of things, this is either a mistake or an obscure cameo like the Swoop in ''Mario Party 3''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:41, October 29, 2021 (EDT)
-Try looking through every board or something that shows descriptions of characters. That might be where Monty Mole is. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:01, October 29, 2021 (EDT)
-I still can’t find info on Monty Mole being in Mario Party 4. Do you guys think it is a error or a very obscure cameo? Also should I make a purposel for this? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 12:37, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-:There's nothing to even make a proposal on, either Monty Mole appears somewhere in Mario Party 4 or it's a mistake in Superstars. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:04, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-My best guess is that Monty Mole either had a name drop in a Minigame or bio somewhere, or they appear somewhere in a board. What do you guys think? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 13:33, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-:You know, longplay videos of the game are available on YouTube. If you really want to find out, you can watch those videos. Or, take our word for it. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 13:55, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-I'm pretty sure something like that would have already been covered on the article by now if it was true. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:25, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-Well we did miss games like Mario is Missing!, Mario and Sonic at the 2012 London Olympic Games, Game & Watch Gallery 1 & 2, etc. So maybe it could have been a very obscure cameo we have never seen before. Should Mario Party 4 at least be put into the Trivia page since it is at least somewhat noteworthy to mention? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 14:53, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-:I'd say a brief mention in the Superstars section is enough for now unless we do find out for sure. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:57, October 31, 2021 (EDT)
-== Choppah ==
-Choppah’s German name calls them Heli-Monty which is similar to Monty Mole (same with Undergrunt Gunner having the exact same German name as Monty Mole in Super Mario Galaxy 2 for some reason). What should we do about this? Do you think this was just a coincidence or mistranslation,  or are they actually related to Monty Mole? (a proposal can be made here to discuss this further). (also I personally think that Choppah and Undergrunt Gunner are unrelated to Monty Mole but I would like to hear what you guys think). [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 21:30, November 7, 2021 (EST)
-== Masato Mizuta ==
-So I believe that Masato Mizuta is the current voice actor for Monty Mole, but what was the first game where they voiced Monty Mole (I don’t actually know)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 01:14, November 15, 2021 (EST)
-== 4koma Manga Formatting ==
-Should 4koma manga be formatted for each strip being spaced out or all strips in the volume being in one section like with other Mario Manga sections? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 22:34, December 7, 2021 (EST)
-:Pages that are too verbose are not useful, most readers will just skip the walls of text. If you can summarize the topic of each 4koma in one sentence it's better, in most cases you can't properly describe the usual 4koma joke through descriptions anyway.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:20, December 8, 2021 (EST)
-== Mario Sunshine Monty Mole (again) ==
-So the Prima Guide and Bradygames guide suggests that both the Noki Bay and Pinna Park Monty Moles are the same character. Does this mean that they are the same character? If so, does this mean they could possibly get their own page? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 11:41, December 10, 2021 (EST)
-:The problem is that said claim doesn't have particularly solid ground, [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/archives/sunshine/ with the Monty Mole not having a unique name in Japanese]. Since ''Super Mario Sunshine'' has those particular designs and roles, the two might even be meant to be the standard Monty Moles of the game rather than a peculiar individual.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:00, December 10, 2021 (EST)
-::Also the Prima Guide says that the Monty Mole brought the cannon with him, yet in-game it is stated that they stole it (at least for Pinna Park). So did they bring a cannon or steal one? This also applies to the Noki Bay one to. And when I was referring to the Monty Mole being considered a character for both of their fights, I mean that the Prima Guide says "Combat is the same as the last time you faced him", suggesting that this is the same Monty Mole from Pinna Park. The Bradygames guidebook has a section titled "Chorobe is back", which suggest that the Monty Mole in Pinna Park has returned. This could also make since for them being their own cannon in Noki Bay. Anyways, what do you think about this, and could this mean that this Monty Mole could get their own page as a notable member? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 20:27, December 13, 2021 (EST)
-:::In the case of ''Super Mario Sunshine'', the Nintendo Power guide has the priority, if it doesn't agree in this point, we can at best leave a mention in the section that the two English guides state that. At the moment I can't check the Nintendo Official Guidebook to see if it stated something on this aspect.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:21, December 14, 2021 (EST)
-== Ghost Monty Moles and Monty Mole king ==
-If I made a page for Ghost Monty Mole, should I merge the volume 4 and volume 55 ones as the same type of Ghost Monty Mole? Also, is it ok to say an implied character like the Monty Mole king to be a notable member of the Monty Mole species (like Watt’s Mother with Lil Sparky)? [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 12:53, December 11, 2021 (EST)
-== Tetris 99 ==
-So where was Monty Mole's appearance in Tetris 99? Was it reused artwork from Mario Party Superstars? If so, please send a screenshot. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 14:35, December 14, 2021 (EST)
-Nevermind, the Monty Mole burrow can be seen on the screenshot they took. [[User:MontyMoleLoreMaster|MontyMoleLoreMaster]] ([[User talk:MontyMoleLoreMaster|talk]]) 14:42, December 14, 2021 (EST)
-== Why is it a rocky Whrench variant? ==
-Someone put ->variant_of rocky wrench [[Special:Contributions/148.255.234.235|148.255.234.235]] 12:26, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:Because Monty Mole is based on Rocky Wrench? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:35, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
-::It was agreed from [[Talk:Rocky Wrench#The return - treat Monty Mole as derivative of Rocky Wrench|this proposal]]. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 13:42, June 16, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Seeing confusion again.[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Monty_Mole&diff=4383413&oldid=4382909] Those proposal changes ''should'' be documented on this talk page as well. ''<sub>grumble grumble</sub> we need policy on this''. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:14, October 4, 2024 (EDT)