Editing Talk:Mine

==(First topic)==
Conjectural name? -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

yup.<br>[[User:Confused|<span style="color:Red;">I</span>]] [[User talk:Confused|<span style="color:Blue;">am</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Confused|<span style="color:Green;">Confused</span>]] 22:29, 26 April 2007 (EDT)

The SMW mines are called Floating Mines by Mario Mania, the official strategy guide.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] 11:27, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
:If they were officially called "Floating Mimes", then surely the article ought to be moved to that name? [[Special:Contributions/94.197.121.25|94.197.121.25]] 11:48, 14 October 2014 (EDT)

==Mine Fish?=
You'll never guess!!! You know those Mines in the Cosmic cove galaxy? when i got to their right, it turned and revealed it had eyes!!! Do you think it's not really a mine and another enemy? i've got a pic!!!
[[Image:Mine Fish.jpg]]

[[File:Lotoitems.jpg|90px]][[User:COSMIcPikMIN & Items|COSMIc]][[User talk:COSMIcPikMIN & Items|PikMIN]] [[List of items|& Items]][[File:Pikrun.jpg|90px]]

p.s.:Also we could not blow them instantly with [[Co-Star Luma]]!!!

These could be just another type of "living mine", as a Thwomp is to a cinder block. And yes, Thwomps are techically animate, but these could be too.{{User:8BrickMario}}

Star Bit Mines? 

The Mines in the Slimy Spring Galaxy, just above the first underwater segment, give 3 Star Bits when shot, in a manner similar to Slurples and Topminis.{{User:8BrickMario}}

== Why move the page to "Mine"? ==
In the beginning of the article, there's a template for a suggestion of renaming the article to just Mine, but why?
Literally the first topic in this Talk page talks about how Floating Mine is its official name.--{{User:Tent2/sig}} 17:24, February 3, 2021 (EST)
:Because "floating mine" hasn't been used in years, not all of them float, and simply "mine" is more common. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:01, February 3, 2021 (EST)
::According to LinkTheLefty (who added the template) it's parsed "floating Mine" on page 58, and the page 52 ref is in all caps. Based on that, the "floating" part is just a descriptive adjective rather than part of the name and it should have been simply "Mine" all along. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 14:49, February 5, 2021 (EST)

:::I agree with moving it to 'mine' if it's going to incorporate every other kind of mine.

:::{{User:Shokora/sig}} 08:00, September 26, 2021 (EDT)
::::Maybe the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjdJvwFvK8&t=9s "Spiny"] from ''Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix'' <small>(if that's the case, should the article be "Spiny (object)" or is there a more recent instance of "mine"?)</small>? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:25, September 26, 2021 (EDT)

So, I'm starting to think there's a better way to organize this info altogether. There appears be some overlap with bombs, namely in ''Super Mario 64'' and the ''Mario Party'' series. Additionally, these things don't even blow up in every game, such as in ''Super Mario World''. What's more, the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' ones seem to be two different objects (considered "enemies" in ''Encyclopedia''). And then, as mentioned before, there are the one-off, mine-like "Spiny" objects from ''Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix''. The main thing the objects in this article have in common is that they are spiked orbs, but the design isn't even as consistent as the usual Spike Balls. I think at the very least, the underwater ''Galaxy'' one (''Kiraira'') should be split out of the article, since it uniquely has eyes and regenerates, if not bundled with the Space Mine like ''Encyclopedia'' does later in the ''Galaxy 2'' section. Potentially, the non-explosive (Spike Ball-like) and explosive (bomb-like) ones can be split as well. Thoughts? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:51, March 22, 2022 (EDT)

== The 3D World """Mine""" ==
You know, I'm personally unsure if the Mario 3D World/Captain Toad/Bowser's Fury version should even be on here. I think it should be moved to [[Spike Ball]] instead. Its Japanese name (Togebōru/Togeball) certainly suggests that it's a Spike Ball instead of a mine, and its coloration (green with yellow spikes) AND its internal name (Needle Seed) make it seem like it's specifically closer to the Spike Balls that [[River Piranha Plant]]s use. They certainly don't explode like mines either. Touching them forces the player to go back instead of exploding, and destroying them with a fireball or invincibility makes them crumble, with some kind of crumpling sound effect, denoting they're some kind of plant instead of an explosive. [[User:Arend|Arend]] ([[User talk:Arend|talk]]) 10:11, August 21, 2022 (EDT)
:That'd be one way to clean up the "dud" mines from the "bomb" mines. I think we should include ''Super Mario World'' as part of the Spike Ball merge as well since Japanese ''Encyclopedia'' uses the same name as the one from ''Super Mario 3D World''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:18, August 21, 2022 (EDT)
::I am personally unsure if we should include the ''Super Mario World'' one with the Spike Ball merge, considering that they have an alternate Japanese name from a different guide that ''does'' state they're mines, these cannot be destroyed by fireballs unlike the plant-like ones from ''3D World'' (then again, a regular iron black Spike Ball doesn't either), and they don't even have the same colors (rather than green with yellow spikes like the Spike Balls from River Piranha Plants, they're  yellow or beige, seemingly made of wood). Not to mention that this article is named after the mine from ''Super Mario World'' in the first place, so splitting that one off requires this article to move to "Mine" anyway. Also, ''Mario's Time Machine'' has the same design as the one from ''Super Mario World'', so I figure that has to move with the ''Super Mario World'' portion too. [[User:Arend|Arend]] ([[User talk:Arend|talk]]) 10:45, August 27, 2022 (EDT)
:::The thing is that they don't explode and function more like black Spike Balls, just not rolling yet like they would in later games. Given that the [https://archive.org/details/smw-nintendo-official-guide-book/SMWAPEvol1/page/25/mode/2up source] also uses the early "[[tcrf:Development:Super Mario World (SNES)/Background Graphics and Tilemaps#Enemy Cast List|Magnam-Killer]]" spelling, it's possible that ''kirai'' is another development remnant of when there was an [[tcrf:Development:Super Mario World (SNES)/Sprites#z-mario-4|actual]] naval mine object (which incidentally better resembled the explosive ones in later games). Anyway, considering that "Floating Mine" basically only showed up in ''Mario Mania'', renaming the page isn't an issue since it was probably overdue. I was thinking that in addition to or instead of the partial merge to Spike Ball, this article could also get partially merged with the bomb article since they're more commonly referred to as bombs than mines. There's even less overlap with regular bombs than Spike Balls, which also has the usual version made by Spikes (named <tt>NeedleBall</tt> internally) in ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker''. I don't know if the version from the PC/SNES ''Mario's Time Machine'' (which is also a lot smaller and has thinner needles) is the explosive or non-explosive type. So to sum up, Mikey Mine should be split as its own article (likely incorporating Space Mine), the explosives would be merged with bomb, then potentially the remainder could merge with Spike Ball. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:55, August 29, 2022 (EDT)

==Figure out how to reorganize messy mines==
{{settled TPP}}
{{proposal outcome|passed|0-0-0-0-0-0-6-2-0-0-0|Option 5}}
See above. Simply put, these differ too much in function and have different names, with a lot of them being referred to as bombs, the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' ones clearly being their own enemy entity, the term "Floating Mine" only referring to ''Super Mario World'', and many of them not even being explosive. As such, it looks like this is really multiple objects. To sum it up, this article can be broken up into the following types:
*Mikey Mines, which appear in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' and ''Super Mario Galaxy 2''.
*Space Mines, a subset of Mikey Mines that is only named in ''Super Mario Galaxy'' material but does reappear in ''Super Mario Galaxy 2''.
*"Duds" that float on the water surface, which appear in ''Super Mario World'', ''Mario's Time Machine'', and ''Luigi's Mansion 3''; while the last one resembles Spike Ball, those sink.
*"Duds" that sink in the water, which appear in ''Mario Party 6''; clearly a type of fruit that cracks in half and has round bumps instead of sharp spikes, as the Japanese name indicates.
*"Duds" that are stuck in pipes, which appear in ''Super Mario 3D World'' and ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker''; these share a Japanese name with the ''Super Mario World'' Floating Mine as well as the ''Mario Party 10'' Spiked Ball, but appear to be burnable seeds.
*Explosives, which appear in ''Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3'', ''Super Mario 64'', ''Mario Party 3'', ''Luigi's Mansion 3'', and ''Mario Party Superstars''; these are all proximity-based mines that exist in the water with the exception of the ''Super Mario 64'' version, although that one closely resembles the ''Mario Party 3'' version so I'll count it together.
This proposal has multiple options to handle the situation. Regardless of what passes, the resulting version of the article will be renamed to "mine".

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 14, 2023, 23:59 GMT
===Option 1: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in one "Mikey Mine" article only===

===Option 2: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in two separate articles only===

===Option 3: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in one "Mikey Mine" article, and split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)"===

===Option 4: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in two separate articles, and split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)"===

===Option A: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in one "Mikey Mine" article, and split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)"===

===Option B: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in two separate articles, and split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)"===

===Option 5: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in one "Mikey Mine" article, split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)", and split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)"===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} My preference.
#{{User|Somethingone}} This article should definitely be split. I would say split Mikey and Space as well, but the only difference with those is that one can sometimes move horizontally...
#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal. The Galaxy 2 part of the Mario Portal calling the space one "Mikey Mine" is what makes me vote for this option rather than option 6.
#{{User|Camwood777}} Per all. We probably don't need multiple articles for the Mikey Mine/Space Mine when it's effectively the same, and merging stuff with the bomb article feels like a misnomer, but uh. Yeah. this needs a split. Plus, the Mario Party 6 one technically isn't even a mine, so like, ''what is it doing here?'' That one needed to be split awhile ago. ;P
#{{User|Shadic 34}} Per all.
#{{User|Arend}} Secondary choice

===Option 6: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in two separate articles, split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)", and split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)"===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Second choice.
#{{User|Arend}} Per proposal. You know the ordeal is a bit of a problem when nearly every section on the page is topped with a "split" or "merge to" notice.

===Option 7: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in one "Mikey Mine" article, split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)", split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)", and merge the explosives with the "bomb" article===

===Option 8: Split Mikey Mine and Space Mine in two separate articles, split the sinking mine as "mine (fruit)", split the pipe obstruction as "spike ball (seed)", and merge the explosives with the "bomb" article===

===Option 9: Make no major changes to the article organization===

===Comments===
This proposal has a very confusing array of options and I don't recommend using {{tem|move}} to highlight every single option from this proposal into the page; you'll probably need a general purpose template like an improvised {{tem|rewrite}}. I can agree renaming the page to "Mine" just to make it a catchall page for the generic typically-underwater counterpart of Bomb. The only split I can sort of agree to doing is Mikey Mines due to a specific name but the rest appear to verge on really specific and confusing, impractical technicalities and don't seem like extremely compelling reasons to split. For instance, the mines in Mario Party minigames are referred to as "bombs" and thus the suggestion is to put it in the bombs page, but I still feel "mine" is a better descriptor for what is otherwise a generic object. Our own [[bomb]] page, which is generally about these spherical objects with fuses, even states that "Floating Mines can be considered their naval counterparts, although they do not always explode." The ''Mario Party 6'' case is another one: they clearly refer to the objects as "mines" but the proposal wants to make a Mine (fruit) page because they don't explode? It's not clear exactly what's going to be accomplished because these proposed changes are very confusing to me. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 03:14, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:The Mario Party 6 mine isn't to be split ''just'' because it doesn't explode; its Japanese name, "きのみ" (Kinomi) literally translates to "tree nut", so it's highly likely that it wasn't supposed to be a mine at all.<br>One could argue the same regarding the "mines" in 3D World/Treasure Tracker. Those are spike balls that doesn't go away when a character touches it, and crumple when being hit by a fireball as if it were a plant or seed; when a mine is supposed to explode on any contact. I'd say that crumpling like a plant is odd even for a dud. To add further, the Japanese name also suggests it's a spike ball instead of a mine or bomb.<br>The one point I can agree with you is merging the explosive mines to the Bomb article being pointless (which is why I voted for Option 6 instead of Options 7 or 8); mines are essentially the naval counterpart of bombs, so they're supposed to explode, I don't currently see a reason to differentiate them from the duds.<br>I know it looks very confusing, but from how I see it, LinkTheLefty is proposing to rename the current article to "Mine" and split off four entities that the article currently covers: the Mikey Mine from the Galaxy games (which could be further split off into "Mikey Mine" and "Space Mine"), the "tree nut" mine from Mario Party 6, the seedlike Spike Ball "mine" from 3D World, and the explosive mines (which is proposed to be merged to "Bomb"). The options appear to be paired in two (with each pair adding the tree nut, the seed spike ball, and the explosives into the mix, in that order), as the even-numbered options propose to give Space Mine its own article, and the odd-numbered options to have the "Mikey Mine" article to cover the Space Mine as well. {{User:Arend/sig}} 08:03, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
::Basically, yes. The fact that these don't explode in every appearance alone makes me wonder if these were really designed as "mines" to begin with and not just an early appearance of Spike Ball that became nonstandard (which is a far more generic subject except for possibly ''Wario'' series versions, but that can be addressed another time). That was my initial idea until I realized there was overlap with ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'', but I left the bomb option open (despite not supporting it due to ''Luigi's Mansion 3'') since that article already features multiple types of bombs and would leave this a cleaner article where every appearance has one thing in common. I admit the ''Mario Party 6'' and ''Super Mario 3D World'' ones were later additions to the proposal, but they're obviously mislabeled - you can see the former growing on trees, and the latter serves an entirely other gameplay purpose in the way you can say Clear Pipes are different enough from the original Warp Pipes, and they can even be disposed of in a way that isn't possible before. However, I'd be open to taking suggestions within the next day or so if anyone believes another route is more optimal. I did overlook ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' and ''Luigi's Mansion'' suggestions in the Spike Ball article, but maybe some other time. (I also added that sentence in the bomb article recently because I thought it at least deserved to be mentioned in the infobox, but there isn't room in the item infobox.) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:34, April 1, 2023 (EDT)

Camwood777: "Plus, the Mario Party 6 one technically isn't even a mine, so like, what is it doing here? That one needed to be split awhile ago. ;P"

Arend: It's called a mine in the minigame description as well as minigame commands. Also, I think they're interpreted as mines in various localizations because they're found on underwater trees which the treetop is above water, and some of these are found underwater. Finally, several foreign names for this minigame directly refer to them as mines: "Vagues de Mines", "Minentaucher", "Mare Minato". Do the minigame descriptions/commands also refer to these items as mines? 

Also if we're going to decide to split mines based on their ability to explode or not, why aren't we splitting the Super Mario World mines? Why not split the Luigi's Mansion 3 for sinking too? The only unique reason I've seen is the Japanese name, which is contradicted by several other sources (this isn't a Chestnut King situation IMO). I think we should split off the Super Mario 3D World mines to '''Spiked Ball (Super Mario 3D World)''' or any other good identifier due to the different name it has as well as Mikey Mine for name and the face it has, and probably have Space Mine merged with it (even personally it looks a lot more generic and would be a little weird to be merged with Mikey Mine, but eh, naming conventions). {{User:Mario/sig}} 13:04, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Like I said before, the Japanese version of Mario Party 6 refers to the mine as a ''tree nut'', NOT a mine. The English version calling it a mine instead doesn't automatically mean that it ''is'' a mine without question, since it might as well be a localization flub. The other languages referring to it as a mine as well could mean they're all derived from the English version that has this mistake, ''instead'' of the original Japanese one. {{User:Arend/sig}} 13:24, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Pretty much if options 7 or 8 pass, this subject would essentially just be Spike Ball variants that float in the water. Even in the Sunken Ghost Ship level, when a bunch fall down into the water, you can see that they have the physics to rise back up to the water surface, so they're probably not ''iron'' balls like normal Spike Balls are supposed to be. As for ''Luigi's Mansion 3'' - they do? They fall into the water, but then bob back onto the surface instead of sinking if you look closely. Unless they appear somewhere other than the Coin Floating minigame where they exhibit different behavior, but the article doesn't mention that. The ''Super Mario 3D World'' object is listed with the "seed" identifier due to the internal name and the combustion suggesting it's a giant seed (and also it reappears in at least one other game so it avoids having to use another game as identifier), but I guess I can revise the identifier if enough of you don't like it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:52, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
::I don't think it's a flub, as I said, it's probably an interpretation of what they saw. Or maybe it's a flub and didn't really consider the environmental context and Japanese material, or maybe they decided to call it a mine because it invokes the danger to their audience better than like "drop tree nuts on people". It's speculative in the end imo. Could be a localization flair, could be a mistake, could be a clarification. I don't think evidence for it being a flub is really strong compared to the Chestnut King localization mistake. {{User:Mario/sig}} 13:43, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::I can add options that split the seed but not the fruit, though I'd personally want to merge it with Spike Ball if anything since they don't look too buoyant. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:52, April 1, 2023 (EDT)

On a somewhat-related-to-mines note: I noticed in the [[Floating Mine#Names in other languages|Names in other languages section]] that an Italian name for mines in ''Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix'' is listed. This is probably in reference to the Spiny in DDR Mario Mix, which is [[Spiny#Dance Dance Revolution: Mario Mix|still described on the regular Spiny page]], despite not really looking like a Spiny (being, well, a mine, that only ''kinda'' looks like a Spiny Egg), and [[Spiny#Names in other languages|having a different Japanese name]]. I feel like the DDR Spiny should be split off the regular Spiny as its own article. {{User:Arend/sig}} 13:14, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:Probably, yeah. {{User:Mario/sig}} 13:20, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:I forgot about those. If they explode, I'd consider them an off-appearance of mines (or bombs if options 7 or 8 pass), since they more or less seem to be that in all but name. They have a unique Japanese name that suggests the English name being shared with Spiny is a complete accident, so it really should've been split a long time ago. Should I add them to the proposal, or is it obvious enough to merge with mine/bomb after the proposal's over? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:52, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
::I still think the mine Spiny should have its own article, considering a variant of it, the [[Ice Spiny]], has its own article as well, and that also only appeared in DDR. I think it's kind if weird when the original version of an entity has to be merged to another article, but the variant gets one of its own.<br>I'm more comfortable with the idea that the Spiny mine gets its own article, and that Ice Spiny is merged to that one. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:34, April 1, 2023 (EDT)
:::I'll leave it out of the proposal since there's a lot of options as it is, but something like that would at least be better than the current arrangement. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:13, April 3, 2023 (EDT)