Editing Talk:Meteor

I thought we only allow articles that have unique elements to the Marioverse. That's the reason why we don't have articles on water, floors, walls, etc.. Meteors are pretty self-explanatory and don't need a separate article.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 17:02, 22 October 2009 (EDT)
:To be honest, I only made this article because there was a red link to it.  Also, what about [[boulder]]s?  They have an article of their own. - [[User:Smashgoom202|Smashgoom202]] 20:43, 22 October 2009 (EDT)

::Why doesn't someone fix the red links, turning them into regular words (remove the brackets).--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}

Boulders are a bit different. For example, they release Star Bits when destroyed, an aspect which is unique to the Marioverse.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 00:04, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
:I hate to add fuel into the flames, but... what about [[Lava]]? It's pretty much the same thing as what we have on earth. Unique to it is only the fact that Mario can actually survive contact with lava, but the same applies to the Meteors (getting hit by a rock that traverses space at high speed is pretty health hazardous for a normal human). Should the Lava article be deleted as well (which would be kind of a shame because it is really detailed.)? - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 00:26, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

::Hmm, you put up a good point Edo, but as Knife said, there is no water, floors, walls, plants, etc... I agree, it is vry detailed.--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}

Well, to be honest, the article only gives the illusion that it is detailed. Beyond that large amount of text is mostly "lava appeared in all these games". Which is redundant information anyway since the article mentions that lava appears in many places in the Mushroom World. It is possible to create an article on water and make it even more detailed since it is a commonly recurring substance.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 01:14, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

:Now that you mentioned it, I reread the articles and basically states: "''Lava is a hazard. If Mario or DK or whoever were to fall into it, theyw ill instantly die. Lava is a very common hazard." I agree that it should be deleted, but first, someone would need to take care of the links to the page so we won't have a massive aftermath of red links.--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}

::I'll gonna be ridiculous now: I'd actually say it would be valid to create an article about water, seeing how it affects gameplay in different games. In Super Mario 64, it can heal the player (since life=air in that game and being on the surface regenerates air). In Wario Land 2 and 3, it is used to cure most of Wario's status ailments. In Paper Mario and Paper Mario 2, it is deadly for Mario. Super Mario Sunshine even revolves completely around water and it is used as Mario's primary weapon. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 02:31, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
:::I agree with Edo. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 02:34, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
::::The problem is, this can also be expanded to include Lava. Lava in the Marioverse acts different from lava here on earth, at least in one game: Super Mario 64. Here, lava doesn't kill you upon contact, it sends you rocketing upwards with a burning behind. I don't recall lava doing that in reality. In Super Mario Sunshine, there are fish living in the lava, and it can be traversed in a wooden boat. Though it may be not that manifold if compared to water, these are features unique to the Marioverse. A similar thing applies for Meteors. Getting hit by a meteor is lethal, but in the Marioverse you can simply shrug it off and continue saving the princess without any resulting detriments. Therefore you can not really compare Water, Lava and even Meteors with something as simple as floors and walls. If you want to do that for the sake of drawing a line somewhere, you have to forcefully look away from these vital facts. To neglect them, or to embrace them... your decision. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 12:46, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

Both lava and water have a few minor differences  in the Marioverse. I can also argue about various real-life objects having unique features to the Marioverse. For example, walls can be traveled through by Boos and walls can be suspended in mid-air (SMB3). Clouds are apparently solid and can be walked on. Wood doesn't melt when crossing lava (SMS). Paintings can transport Mario to different levels (SM64). It is impossible for a black hole to be directly beneath a planet (SMG). Explosions only harm characters, not killing them. Magic itself is only possible in the Marioverse. I can keep listing examples all day. By your definition, all those examples deserve articles. But we need to establish a limit. Also, water has healing properties in Super Mario 64 because there was no separate gauge for air. 

[[:Category: Traps and Obstacles]] needs major clean-up. Why don't we go ahead and discuss a limit to creating articles on generic things? We might need to add a policy to clarify what generic things needs articles what generic things don't. I believe that if something has a direct effect on the story (like Anvil), it deserves an article. As for effects on gameplay, I'm not so sure.--{{User:Knife/sig}} 14:28, 23 October 2009 (EDT)
:I said it is ok to draw a line, but we should admit that we are neglecting facts if we do so. That's all I ask. Neglecting facts is sometimes inevitable to keep order, but then you should face this matter, instead of closing your eyes for the sole purpose of "being right". 

:By your definition of things I cannot see why you think the [[Boulder]] article is valid. Because things fall out when you destroy them? That's nowhere near the impact water has on the Marioverse, and it is also "just a gameplay element". Why keeping [[Jump]]? Why keeping [[Fireball]]? A type of movement and a ball of fire? Also just gameplay elements. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 14:52, 23 October 2009 (EDT)

::Good point Edo, but then we'd need to include plants (virtually every Mario game), toxic waste (SM64), clouds (stated above), and space itself (of course you know a human would die in space in approximately a minute while Mario can just sleep there and he breathes it as though it contained oxygen!). Mario's is one unique and odd little man...--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}

:::Three things: 1: Maybe that's because it does contain oxygen. At least most of the galaxies do. I'm not sure if the Flipswitch Galaxy would... Anyway, there are some obvious examples of galaxies having oxygen. Any galaxy with life has to have oxygen and carbon dioxide or they would all be barren. In fact, the Gusty Garden is really obvious because how could there be huge gusts of wind and flowers and grass without oxygen? Remember, just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. 2: Most plants in the Marioverse act like plants here. If you hit a tree with a hammer it will shake and if there's something a bit loose (like a fruit) it will fall, and looking in bushes (technically shaking them but same diff) you might find something. The only plant that might deserve a page is the Whacka-like one because it are special (such as spitting out hearts when you circle it (and it follows you) or spitting out horsetails when you whack it enough). 3: We aren't talking about Meteors anymore. {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}}

::::Yeah, we stopped alking abut meteors a while ago. I know about the oxygen part because there are plant and others there, but I'm sayig like when he's shooting through space at over 100mph and he is able to breathe underwater forever (NSMB and SMB).--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}
I actually don't care if whole articles are created for that subjects, but yes: I believe everything you mentioned above (minus the plants, since they do nothing different than in our world) deserves to be wrote about, even if just as a tiny paragraph in a greater article. If you think that's absurd, then ponder about my words while you look at this:

<blockquote>The Hazy Maze, the level's namesake, is located deep within the cave. The Hazy Maze is a labyrinth whose passageways '''are clouded with a highly toxic yellow gas (purple in the remake). Mario's health is slowly depleted the longer he stays in the maze, and he will eventually suffocate if he is unable to get fresh air.''' To make matters worse, the Hazy Maze is full of Snufits, Monty Moles, and Swoopers that can hinder Mario's progress. Fortunately for Mario, there are small areas of higher ground scattered throughout the maze, a Metal Box ('''Metal Mario is unaffected by the poisonous fumes'''), and several escape routes that are clearly marked on the map just outside the entrance. Obtaining certain Stars requires the use of certain escape routes. </blockquote>
<blockquote>Wing Mario Over the Rainbow is one of three secret levels in Super Mario 64, where Mario uses the Wing Cap to collect eight Red Coins and get a Power Star. The entrance is on the left side of the third floor near Tick Tock Clock in a niche high up in the wall, opposite to the entrance of Rainbow Ride. The level contains two platforms with a cannon on each, and four '''solid clouds''', which are connected by rainbows. Two of the clouds are transparent and Mario can fly straight through them. A Bob-omb Buddy appears, and Mario has to talk to him to open the cannons.</blockquote>

The informations are already there, and things that are too ridiculous to have their own article can be easily merged with another article. The Toxic Waste belongs to the Hazy Maze Cave, the Clouds belong to whatever cloud stage they appear in, space belongs to the Super Mario Galaxy article, Meteors belong to some other article (I went a little over board with that). And if there is such an element which often recurs during the Mario series, like water with its many different properties, then it deserves its own article. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 22:57, 24 October 2009 (EDT)

Tru, but isn't space going to be recurring in SMG2? There are some flaws to this. :\--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}
:<blockquote>And if there is such an element which '''often''' recurs during the Mario series, like water with its many different properties, then it deserves its own article.</blockquote>

:I would prefer if you don't make me list every Mario game in which water appeared and affected gameplay. - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 23:09, 24 October 2009 (EDT)

::Yeah, this page would fill up like that!--{{User:Gamefreak75/Sig}}
== Some one? ==
Can this page really be helped? I tried adding to it but that's it. I shouldn't really be here, there just isn't enough. {{User|Mechayoshi}}
:Is it possible to merge it with another article? If that is all that's to say about them, the article can't stay like this indeed... - {{User:Edofenrir/sig}} 22:27, 24 October 2009 (EDT)
::Maybe we could merge this with [[Fireball]] as the article mainly focuses on the things flying out of Bowser's mouth and the things that fly out of his mouth are most definitely fireballs. {{User|Marioguy1}}

== Complete ==
I am Zero! Meteors aren't only in SMG[2], they're also in various other games, so why is it only cover SMG? Zero signing out. {{User|Zero777}}

== Are these things Volcanic Debris? ==

I voted to keep Volcanic Debris and Meteors split but now that I look at them again they look more like Volcanic Debris than Meteors should we start a Merge vote by merging Meteors with Volcanic Debris? {{User|TheHelper100}} 15:16, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
:[[Talk:Volcanic Debris#Merge Raining Debris with Meteor|They're not]], and you can't start another proposal until....4 weeks later. And I'll still oppose. It's simply because meteors are NOT volcanic substances, they're extraterrestrial rocks burning up in the atmosphere. They're completely different. And considering that we have a ----load of repeat proposals at this time, I prefer if you ''don't'' start another repeat proposal. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:33, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
:Furthermore, you're the same guy who said that meteors are fired from space volcanoes, right? no, they would be still considered "volcanic debris". The objects described as meteors here actually do "randomly fall from the sky while hot," that's what meteors really are. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:40, 11 June 2015 (EDT)

==Bowser’s Flame==
The ''New Super Mario Bros. U PRIMA Official Game Guide'' (and ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'') refers to these hazards as something other than meteors, even though the name of the level it first appears in is called Meteor Moat.

14

*<big><b>USING THE WII U GAMEPAD</b></big>

*[...] You can also stun or destroy certain environmental hazards as well, such as falling Bowser’s Flames, or fireballs thrown by enemies.

190

*<big><b>CAUTION</b></big>

*Beware of those falling Bowser’s Flames! They’ll damage you and destroy Brick Blocks, but they won’t harm enemies. (No fair!)

*<big><b>TIP</b></big>

*Carry frozen enemies as you move through this stage, and they’ll protect you from those falling Bowser’s Flames!

*<big><b>STAR COIN 2</b></big>

*The second Star Coin is surrounded by Brick Blocks. Ground pound through the top Brick Blocks to reach it, or simply wait for a Bowser’s Flame to fall and destroy them. Quickly collect the Star Coin before another Bowser’s Flame falls and destroys the lower Brick Blocks, or else the Star Coin will be much harder to collect!

196

*<big><b>2</b></big>

*Climb the rocky walls here to continue your ascent, but watch out for those falling Bowser’s Flames!

*<big><b>STAR COIN 3</b></big>

*The third Star Coin lies at the top of the cliffs. You must climb the central rock wall to reach this final prize. When big Bowser’s Flames come falling at you during this climb, duck into the side nooks for safety.

Note that when the actual Bowser battles are described on pages 201 and 202, his own projectiles are generically referred to as "fireballs" despite the similar appearance. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:20, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
:And Bowser pukes out Meteors in ''Galaxy'' making them Bowser's flames as well. Anyways, the ones in NSMBU ''do'' look more like fireballs, but the game itself implies that they are called meteors...hmm... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:11, 30 April 2018 (EDT)
::Well, this got unnoticed for a very long time, but the phrase "Bowser's flames" shows up multiple times in the in-game [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUp6kqstRc4&t=14m23s No Climbing Allowed] video description. The Meteor Moat case seems somewhat like [[Talk:Switchback|Switchback Hill]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 23:43, June 30, 2020 (EDT)
:::In that case, should [[Fire Breath]] perhaps be split into times it's a standalone obstacle (usually along paths to Bowser chambers) and this merged to that? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:15, July 1, 2020 (EDT)
::::Okay, there's something a little odd about this - ''Encyclopedia'' pages 21, 29, 41 (the NES/FCD games) refer to it as 「クッパの吐く炎」 (''Kuppa no haku honō'', Bowser's flame breath), and pages 150, 200, 215 (the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games) refer to it as 「クッパの炎」 (''Kuppa no honō'', Bowser's flame). This by itself isn't out of the ordinary, but what's strange is that the book claims that the object actually known as Bowser's flame in ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' is called 「火炎弾」 (''kaendan'', fireball), which seems to imply that they're separate subjects. I'm fairly certain that they are literally the same graphic, just that the ones in levels move vertically (since Bowser is presumably spitting them from atop the castle off-screen) and the ones around the boss battle move horizontally like usual, but it is odd that the book lists them under separate names on the same page - someone with a Japanese version of ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' (or maybe just a copy of ''Deluxe'' set to Japanese) should check to see what that video description calls it. Games like ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario Maker'' do show Bowser spitting fireballs in a similar pattern though, and it's implied that the "Flames" he drops from the Koopa Clown Car in ''Super Mario World'' are his fireballs and not from the vehicle like the bowling balls. Also, at a glance, meteors seem to be a ''Super Mario Galaxy''-themed version of the flame, but it also appears as an object completely separate from Bowser, such as by bosses that are not Bowser or as a seemingly natural element. He can also spit the usual fireballs in his boss battle, so they are definitely different objects. Here's how I think it should be organized at the moment: "Fire Breath" should be instances of Bowser emitting a continuous stream of flames from his mouth, "Bowser's flame" should be instances of Bowser spitting balls of fire as a ranged projectile (both horizontal and vertical versions), and "meteor" should remain for the solid, not-too-fiery object mostly used in the ''Super Mario Galaxy'' games. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:42, July 1, 2020 (EDT)
:::::Since I'm splitting Fire Breath and Bowser's Flame anyway, I'll go ahead and put this on the latter now. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:19, September 30, 2024 (EDT)

== Split? ==
Should we split them due to one being a Meteor and the other a flame? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:23, June 21, 2019 (EDT)
:Since they seem quite different, I think so. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 12:12, June 21, 2019 (EDT)

== Image Addition ==

Would this benefit from the addition of images from NSMBU assuming the articles aren't going to be split? [[User:HarryGCollections|HarryGCollections]] ([[User talk:HarryGCollections|talk]]) 12:19, June 13, 2020 (EDT)