Editing Talk:Metal ball

==Name==
So after reading the discussion regarding the [[Talk:Revolving wall|revolving wall]], it got me thinking about how we have this article named. I understand that Metal ball is also an official name, taken directly from ''Mario Kart Tour'', but regardless of whether or not it's the most recent name, wouldn't Pinball just be a better name? It's kinda obvious that it is a Pinball and that's just a universally official name. Metal ball, while not as long as "yellow piece of the maze", still feels more like a descriptive term for a Pinball. Could we move it to Pinball or is it just better to stick with Metal ball because it's the most recent and consistent? {{User:Tails777/sig}}13:29, July 31, 2022 (EDT)
:The thing that makes this different is that "pinball" is also the name of several other subjects. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:37, July 31, 2022 (EDT)
::Okay, that’s understandable. Thanks. {{User:Tails777/sig}}13:54, July 31, 2022 (EDT)

== Merge to [[iron ball]]? ==

{{Talk}}
Back when this article was called "pinball (obstacle)" and "iron ball" was called "Big Steely", we had kept these articles separate since this one only appeared in the Waluigi Pinball stages and Big Steely wasn't regarded as a generic iron ball back then. But now that "iron ball" has its current name since "Big Steely" fell out of use pretty quickly, and also that "metal ball" has its current name (which is also more generic), perhaps we should consider merging the two:
#Both have the same Japanese name of ''Tekkyū'' (lit. "iron ball"), and a couple of languages also refer to the metal ball as an iron ball.
#The metal ball's iterations in ''Mario Kart DS'' and ''Mario Kart 7'' are black, like most appearances of the iron ball. The ''Mario Sports Mix'' version has a similarly dark gray coloration (albeit with a rim), and so do the ''Mario Kart Tour'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' versions (albeit more reflective).
#The current name of "metal ball" from ''Mario Kart Tour'' gives off a more generic term equal to that of "iron ball" and doesn't give a specific connection to anything pinball-related.
#''Tour'' now added metal balls to {{classic|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} as well with the same appearance and name as the ones used on Waluigi Pinball (albeit much larger), making the metal ball no longer specific to pinball-related things in its entirety in that game.
From these four points, I'm uncertain if there's still any reason to keep the two separate, unless we rename the article back to "pinball (obstacle)", move only the information regarding the metal balls of {{classic|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} to "iron ball", and make the remaining article ''entirely'' about pinball-specific iron balls... but honestly, that sounds really clunky to me; I'd much prefer it if the two articles were merged. What do any of you think? {{User:Arend/sig}} 11:01, May 5, 2023 (EDT)
:I agree. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:10, May 5, 2023 (EDT)
::Bowser Castle 4 is the main thing of note to me. The SNES Bowser Castle tracks used a variation on the SMW final boss music, so it makes sense to reference part of the battle itself here. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:23, May 5, 2023 (EDT)
:::Definitely agree with all of the above and can't see any reason not to merge them, especially with them having the same Japanese name in mind and the connection in Bowser's Castle 4. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 23:30, July 29, 2023 (EDT)
::::I wouldn't be opposed to a merge. While these assets seem to have started as pinballs, developers don't seem to mind placing them in other courses I don't think we should have pinball as its own page, it seems like splitting hairs at this point. {{User:Mario/sig}} 12:34, August 19, 2023 (EDT)

== Merge to [[iron ball]]: Proposal Edition ==

{{TPP}}
See [[#Merge to iron ball?|the discussion above]], which followed [[Talk:Iron ball#Rename to "iron ball"|the "Big Steely" to "iron ball" proposal]]. With this article being renamed from "pinball (obstacle)" to "metal ball" following ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]'' calling it as such, "Big Steely" being renamed to "iron ball" because the former name was just a one-time nickname for the latter and had fallen out of use since, and especially now that ''Tour's'' version of {{classic-link|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} also uses giant versions of metal balls that are referred to as metal balls as well, ''and'' the fact that both metal balls and iron balls share the same Japanese name of ''tekkyū'' (lit. "iron ball"), I don't think there's much of a point anymore to keep the two articles separate. The rename to "metal ball" in ''Tour'' and the use of the metal balls in {{classic|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} already proves that these obstacles are no longer specific to pinball-related locations and such.

The only way to keep the two separate is if we moved "metal ball" back to "pinball (obstacle)" and moved all the non-pinball-related uses of the metal ball to iron ball, but that's really clunky, and this page is already short as is. I don't think there's much use in splitting hairs here: both iron ball and metal ball are giant metal balls that roll around and serve as an obstacle to avoid, and are even named the same in Japanese.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Arend}}<br>
'''Deadline''': November 22, 2023, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Arend}} Per Proposal and above discussion
#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.

====Oppose====

====Comments====
@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 == Merge to [[iron ball]]? ==
+{{Talk}}
 Back when this article was called "pinball (obstacle)" and "iron ball" was called "Big Steely", we had kept these articles separate since this one only appeared in the Waluigi Pinball stages and Big Steely wasn't regarded as a generic iron ball back then. But now that "iron ball" has its current name since "Big Steely" fell out of use pretty quickly, and also that "metal ball" has its current name (which is also more generic), perhaps we should consider merging the two:
 #Both have the same Japanese name of ''Tekkyū'' (lit. "iron ball"), and a couple of languages also refer to the metal ball as an iron ball.
@@ Line 18: / Line 19: @@
 == Merge to [[iron ball]]: Proposal Edition ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|2-10-0|merge iron ball to metal ball}}
+{{TPP}}
-See [[#Merge to iron ball?|the discussion above]], which followed [[Talk:Iron ball#Rename to "iron ball"|the "Big Steely" to "iron ball" proposal]]. With this article being renamed from "pinball (obstacle)" to "metal ball" following ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]'' calling it as such, "Big Steely" being renamed to "iron ball" because the former name was just a one-time nickname for the latter and had fallen out of use since, and especially now that ''Tour's'' version of {{classic link|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} also uses giant versions of metal balls that are referred to as metal balls as well, ''and'' the fact that both metal balls and iron balls share the same Japanese name of ''tekkyū'' (lit. "iron ball"), I don't think there's much of a point anymore to keep the two articles separate. The rename to "metal ball" in ''Tour'' and the use of the metal balls in {{classic|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} already proves that these obstacles are no longer specific to pinball-related locations and such.
+See [[#Merge to iron ball?|the discussion above]], which followed [[Talk:Iron ball#Rename to "iron ball"|the "Big Steely" to "iron ball" proposal]]. With this article being renamed from "pinball (obstacle)" to "metal ball" following ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]'' calling it as such, "Big Steely" being renamed to "iron ball" because the former name was just a one-time nickname for the latter and had fallen out of use since, and especially now that ''Tour's'' version of {{classic-link|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} also uses giant versions of metal balls that are referred to as metal balls as well, ''and'' the fact that both metal balls and iron balls share the same Japanese name of ''tekkyū'' (lit. "iron ball"), I don't think there's much of a point anymore to keep the two articles separate. The rename to "metal ball" in ''Tour'' and the use of the metal balls in {{classic|GBA|Bowser's Castle 4}} already proves that these obstacles are no longer specific to pinball-related locations and such.
 The only way to keep the two separate is if we moved "metal ball" back to "pinball (obstacle)" and moved all the non-pinball-related uses of the metal ball to iron ball, but that's really clunky, and this page is already short as is. I don't think there's much use in splitting hairs here: both iron ball and metal ball are giant metal balls that roll around and serve as an obstacle to avoid, and are even named the same in Japanese.
-EDIT: Added the option to have "iron ball" merged to "metal ball" instead of the other way around as proposed, since "metal ball" is the most recent name. I'd personally prefer "metal ball" to be merged with "iron ball" since that's more consistent with the Japanese names, but the proposal is ultimately about having the two objects be merged into one article, so either title should be okay.
 '''Proposer''': {{User|Arend}}<br>
 '''Deadline''': November 22, 2023, 23:59 GMT
-===Merge metal ball to iron ball as proposed===
+====Support====
 #{{User|Arend}} Per Proposal and above discussion
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal.
+#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.
-<s>#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal.</s><br>
+#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.
-<s>#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per proposal.</s><br>
-<s>#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal, but isn't "metal ball" the most recent name or am I missing something?</s><br>
-<s>#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all, if Big Steely isn't a unique thing anymore, there's no reason to treat a Metal ball and an Iron ball separately. ;P</s><br>
-<s>#{{User|Hewer}} Per ball.</s>
-===Merge iron ball to metal ball instead===
-#{{User|Arend}} Secondary option, as "metal ball" appears to be the most recent name.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Most recent name and more unique than "iron ball", which has been used to refer to [[Kannonball#Super Smash Bros. Ultimate|other]] [https://youtu.be/x66vguSN8Rk?t=10 objects.]
-#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Per all.
-#{{User|Blinker}} Per all.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Whoops! Anyways, yeah, if metal ball is the newer term, we might as well merge to it instead.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Per ball 2 electric ballgaloo
-#{{User|SolemnStormcloud}} Per proposal: The sequel!
-#{{User|EvieMaybe}} per proposal. plus, we can't know if ALL of the balls that would end up in the article are specifically iron
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Secondary option, per all and Arend.
-#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all, and especially EvieMaybe's reason — this is a better name for a page like this because its name is more generic.
-===Do nothing===
+====Oppose====
-===Comments===
+====Comments====
-So is the goal to have it as the "iron ball" article? I think "metal ball" is more appropriate as the most recent name. Also, other things have been referred to as iron balls, such as kannonballs and Spike Balls. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:39, November 8, 2023 (EST)
-:I figured that merging "metal ball" to "iron ball" made more sense due to the Japanese name of both objects (as ''tekkyū'' translates to "iron ball" instead of "metal ball". But I'll add the option to do the other way around. {{User:Arend/sig}} 22:18, November 8, 2023 (EST)