Editing Talk:Maw-Ray

== Merge with Unagi? ==
{{Talk}}
I believe we should merge this with [[Unagi]] as they appear to be nearly identical in appearance and both serve the same purpose. The name Maw-Ray might have come about with the translators simply not realising they were already enemies or maybe Nintendo just decided to change the name. --[[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 18:51, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
:"Nearly identical." They have the same skin pattern, and they're both eels. That's ''it.'' Should we merge [[Kruncha]] and [[Klank]] for being light blue crocodiles? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:31, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
As it turns out, the Japanese name for these creatures is identical. Most or all of the other localizations appear to use a new name based on the English one, however. The thing is, I really don't blame the translators for wanting to change it - the original name is frankly generic, that being literally the real-world name of a type of eel. Maw-Ray is a nice update that sounds more like something we come to expect out of the series. In this case, given the extreme similarities to the old enemy as well (albeit more realistic-looking), I would say Unagi was definitely given a [[MarioWiki:Naming#Name_changes|name change]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 03:00, 31 October 2017 (EDT)

Still 100% agree with LinkTheLeafy. We should definitely merge the pages. [[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 11:57, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
:I'm all for a merge, but it would probably cause a stir if we started calling the "OMG 2SPOOPY Jolly Roger Bae eel" (ie the thing that looks like an unthreatening cheap rubber muppet in ''64'') something other than its original name. Not that that really matters, policy after all, it's just this is "Blue Shell" levels of popularity of the name; and unlike Blue Shell, Unagi actually is/was an official name. But yeah, if the current name is Maw-Ray, then it's Maw-Ray. And since now we have actual''proof'' they're the same thing (Thank you Link), I see no reason to not merge these. The problem being what to do with the respective talk pages to keep them both here.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::Unagi would turn into a redirect with the discussions remaining on the talk page. That, or the discussions would move to this page and ordered by date. Probably the first option.
::If this is truly the new name, then I'm all for a merge. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:32, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
:::Just wondering how the article would work, since these were called "Unagis" in at least two guides, would those games' sections refer to them still as Unagis? Or would all the pre-Odyssey games call them Unagis? Just curious. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:38, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::I think the result of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_47#The_Usage_of_Old_Names_in_Articles|this proposal]] dictates that Unagi would still be used for ''Super Mario 64'' and ''New Super Mario Bros.''-related articles, at least. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:42, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::Any games that referred to them as Unagi should stay as Unagi. The opening paragraph would say something like "Maw-Rays, previously known as Unagi..." {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:43, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::Probably a silly thought, but is it possible Unagi was meant to refer to the particular Maw-Ray found in Super Mario 64 rather than a species name? Or were there other games that used the name afterwards? Either way, if they've got the same Japanese name, then they should probably be merged like how a few similar examples were in the past. [[User:cheat-master30|cheat-master30]] 18:33, 31 October 2017 (GMT)
:::::The ''New Super Mario Bros.'' Nintendo Power guide also refers to them as Unagi on [https://imgur.com/a/Jr0rU pg. 12] (it's interchangeably singular and plural, too). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:40, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::And they also call Thwomps "Thwomp Traps," Troopas "Koopas," and Sledge Bros. "Sumo Bros." Yeeeeeah, from now on, nobody is allowed to say that Prima makes too many mistakes and we should go with Players Guides. Especially since Prima is right about 96-98% of the time, weighted average. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:24, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
:::::::At the very least, Koopa Troopas are often just referred to as Koopas. As for the others, yeeeah... --{{User:SuperYoshiBros/sig}} 20:44, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::::And they shouldn't. That's one of the few things that ''Super Show'' did better than the official translation. Besides, they use "Koopa Paratroopa," why not use "Koopa Troopa?" Messes with the theme naming a little. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:48, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
::::::I also noticed that all of them seem to be in the singular, but Moneybag is labeled as "Moneybags." Maybe that's ''its'' actual name? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:28, 31 October 2017 (EDT)

Alright so we merge Unagi with Maw Ray andy possibly change 64's Mega Unagi's name to simply "Unagi". All in favour of the merge say "Aye" [[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 20:51, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
:It's not a Mega Unagi though. And neither is the Mario Kart 8 one really, it's not a Mega Unagi unless the game gives us a "normal"-sized one to compare to. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:55, 31 October 2017 (EDT)

We've seen a similar name change with the [[Swoop]]s. Originally known as Swoopers, we continue to use "Swoopers" in sections where the game explicitly called them "Swooper", and in all other appearances we use the current name "Swoop". Same here, for any games that explicitly call them "Unagi" we keep it as Unagi, and for other games we can use the current name. (I guess now I'm just waiting for a [[Sushi]] reboot.) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:56, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == Merge with Unagi? ==
+{{Talk}}
 I believe we should merge this with [[Unagi]] as they appear to be nearly identical in appearance and both serve the same purpose. The name Maw-Ray might have come about with the translators simply not realising they were already enemies or maybe Nintendo just decided to change the name. --[[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 18:51, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
 :"Nearly identical." They have the same skin pattern, and they're both eels. That's ''it.'' Should we merge [[Kruncha]] and [[Klank]] for being light blue crocodiles? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:31, 26 October 2017 (EDT)
@@ Line 9: / Line 10: @@
 ::If this is truly the new name, then I'm all for a merge. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:32, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
 :::Just wondering how the article would work, since these were called "Unagis" in at least two guides, would those games' sections refer to them still as Unagis? Or would all the pre-Odyssey games call them Unagis? Just curious. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:38, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
-::::I think the result of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/47#The_Usage_of_Old_Names_in_Articles|this proposal]] dictates that Unagi would still be used for ''Super Mario 64'' and ''New Super Mario Bros.''-related articles, at least. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:42, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
+::::I think the result of [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_47#The_Usage_of_Old_Names_in_Articles|this proposal]] dictates that Unagi would still be used for ''Super Mario 64'' and ''New Super Mario Bros.''-related articles, at least. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:42, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
 ::::Any games that referred to them as Unagi should stay as Unagi. The opening paragraph would say something like "Maw-Rays, previously known as Unagi..." {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:43, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
 ::::Probably a silly thought, but is it possible Unagi was meant to refer to the particular Maw-Ray found in Super Mario 64 rather than a species name? Or were there other games that used the name afterwards? Either way, if they've got the same Japanese name, then they should probably be merged like how a few similar examples were in the past. [[User:cheat-master30|cheat-master30]] 18:33, 31 October 2017 (GMT)
@@ Line 17: / Line 18: @@
 ::::::::And they shouldn't. That's one of the few things that ''Super Show'' did better than the official translation. Besides, they use "Koopa Paratroopa," why not use "Koopa Troopa?" Messes with the theme naming a little. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:48, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
 ::::::I also noticed that all of them seem to be in the singular, but Moneybag is labeled as "Moneybags." Maybe that's ''its'' actual name? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:28, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
-:::::::Good catch, bring it up on the [[Talk:Moneybag_(enemy)|talk page]]. I can confirm the ''Super Mario 64 Player's Guide'' does the same thing (although "Money Bags" there). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:53, 1 November 2017 (EDT)
 Alright so we merge Unagi with Maw Ray andy possibly change 64's Mega Unagi's name to simply "Unagi". All in favour of the merge say "Aye" [[User:Seandwalsh|Seandwalsh]] ([[User talk:Seandwalsh|talk]]) 20:51, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
 :It's not a Mega Unagi though. And neither is the Mario Kart 8 one really, it's not a Mega Unagi unless the game gives us a "normal"-sized one to compare to. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:55, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
-::It seems Unagi generally got bigger after ''New Super Mario Bros.'', so unless we clearly see them in different sizes again (which we don't as far as I can tell), those "Mega Unagi" should be considered Maw-Ray. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:53, 1 November 2017 (EDT)
-:::Honestly, nearly everything got bigger after ''NSMB''. Look at how big things are in 3D games from ''Galaxy'' onward in comparison to in ''64'', with a few exceptions like Chain Chomp. Spinies are a great example of this, they came up to Mario's knee in ''64'' but were bigger than him in ''Galaxy 2''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:00, 1 November 2017 (EDT)
 We've seen a similar name change with the [[Swoop]]s. Originally known as Swoopers, we continue to use "Swoopers" in sections where the game explicitly called them "Swooper", and in all other appearances we use the current name "Swoop". Same here, for any games that explicitly call them "Unagi" we keep it as Unagi, and for other games we can use the current name. (I guess now I'm just waiting for a [[Sushi]] reboot.) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:56, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
-:Main reason I asked was for games like the ''Mario Kart'' ones, where they aren't explicitly called Unagi, but haven't been renamed yet. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:13, 31 October 2017 (EDT)
-::I know this discussion lasts from one year. It is likely that they have been mistaken for a new enemy, seeing their nightmare-ish design. They originally didn't look like a moray, they only looked like a normal eel. Having a different name in all languages except Japanese is being a localizer's mistake. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:57, 9 January 2019 (EST)
-:::The only "mistake" by the localizers with this was naming them "Unagi" in the first place. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 04:59, 9 January 2019 (EST)
-::::The "Maw-Ray" name is likely because they thought it was a new enemy. (ie they didn't acknowledge it was "Unagi" because of their new appearance), but i think the name "Maw-Ray" is more fitting to their Super Mario Odyssey appearance. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:04, 9 January 2019 (EST)
-:::::Or maybe they were just tired of the previous crappy name and deliberately decided to use the redesign as an excuse to rename them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:06, 9 January 2019 (EST)
-::::::Pretty sure it only applies to Super Mario Odyssey. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:27, 14 February 2019 (EST)
-:::::::Too soon to say as there have yet to be any subsequent appearances. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:55, 14 February 2019 (EST)
-== [[Manta Rings]] ==
-In the ''[[Mario Party 4]]'' minigame [[Manta Rings]], which seems to be primarily based off of the underwater areas of ''[[Super Mario 64]]'', a large orange/brown moray appears towards the end, [https://youtu.be/T5cI1VuW2k0?t=48 coming out from behind a sunken ship]. It's fairly quick, but [https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/16/15235.png it looks like this]. In the same minigame, Blooper looked [https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/16/15234.png square], and ''Mario Party 4'' was also home to other weird-looking versions of enemies, such as [https://www.models-resource.com/resources/big_icons/13/12692.png Whomp] here. Anyways, thoughts? Unagi/Maw-Ray or no? Beyond being a round-snouted Moray, it doesn't really look like one, but the context suggests that it is... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:04, 18 April 2018 (EDT)
-:Considering the minigame's retention of underwater species from ''Super Mario 64'', such as [[Sushi]]s and [[Manta Ray]]s that generate bubbles, I would say the eel is indeed a Maw-Ray. At the very least the article could note its existence in the minigame. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}} 17:28, 22 October 2018 (EDT)
-==Name==
-Shouldn't we call the MK8 version of Mr. Scary Eel Unagi instead of Maw-Ray considering that it was released a couple of years before Odyssey? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 21:27, March 27, 2024 (EDT)
-:For the sake of consistency with other articles, yes. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:21, March 28, 2024 (EDT)