Editing Talk:Mario Kart Wii

{{partofpipe|image=[[Image:MKDS_art small.jpg]]|type=article|name=Mario Kart|goal=create race & battle course articles and expand on the [[Mario Kart Series]] game pages}}

==Daisy==
Wasn't Daisy there?--{{User:Aipom/sig}}--

Good Lord, I hope not :P If she is, add her, although it may go against your conscience. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}}

What are you talking about, Plumber? Anyway, Wikipedia didn't say Daisy was in the game. However, that might just be an error. I'll keep checking back. In the meantime, I won't put her on the page. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

I haven't seen her either, and you know I'm a Daisy fan.  I think we've pretty much got all the characters.

Plumber: ....<br>
DP: Wikipedia doesn't catch on to most info right away. That's why our SSBB article PWNs theirs.<br>
Overall answer: Don't add her until she is actually seen in a screenshot or mentioned.{{User:Knife/sig}} 23:05, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
:Lol, yeah, Plumbers statement was wierd. Anyway, like I said, do not add her until we see her in a screenshot, or Nintendo says she is in it. Also, our SSBB article is WAY better. MarioWiki pwns Wikipedia :P {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

"Excuse me princess", but plumber's a hatin' n00b. [[User:Fixitup]]

==Logo==
I found an image of the logo alone recently and decided to update the image we used for the logo.  Then I uploaded a higher resolution image of Mario & Luigi playing the Wii (check the bottom of the article).  My problem is that the logo isn't showing up in it's updated form, but rather it shows the low-resolution image of Mario and Luigi.  Anyone know how to fix this? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 08:28, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
:Yes. Ctrl+F5, or revisiting the website. This always happens when you upload newer versions of files. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 08:42, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
::Thanks! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:17, 19 July 2007 (EDT)

== Baby Mario and Luigi ==
Man,I hate those two in this game,and I wish they didn't exist.{{User:Fg/sig}}
:But think of it this way.  Nintendo tends to balance out the distribution of lightweight and heavyweight characters.  The inclusion of the babies could indicate the inclusion of two very cool heavyweights.  You never know.  Yeah, yeah... I know it'll probably just be Petey Piranha and King Boo, but whatever. {{User:Stumpers/sig}}

Just a reminder, post stuff like this on the forum, not talk pages. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

== Boo ==

Why do people keep on adding Boo to the playable character list? That might as well have been King Boo! I am sure that Boo will stay as an item, it wouldnt make any sence if they replaced the almighty King Boo with just a simple Boo as a playable character...
:{{User:Mat_rix_007/sig}}
:Why don't we post a "Boo/King Boo" in its place? {{User:Stumpers/sig}}
::I hate Wikipedia. They are the main target for vandalism, which does terrors for us. They still haven't removed Boo nor King Boo yet, so, I suppose they are both true. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Why must people vandalize :(
:There's no crown. So its definitely a normal Boo. So either Boo isnt an item anymore, or King Boo takes over the role of item.--[[User:King Boo|310898920470920674988d.gif]] 18:19, 15 October 2007 (EDT)

== Wario's Mines ==

I was just wondering where we got the name for this course.  I'm not saying that someone just made it up, but I've seen that happen before, so I'm just double checking! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} (please don't be mad!)

== Baby Luigi? ==

How do we know he's in the game?

{{User:Dry Bones/sig| I saw Baby Mario, but not Baby Luigi.}}
:Baby Luigi has been on the Wikipedia list for about a Month now, probably longer, actually. That's how I know, at least. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}

I wonder how they know he's in the game?

{{User:Dry Bones/sig| Also I havn't seen any comfirm for Koopa.}}

==Waluigi And Wario==

Waluigi's and Wario's kart look almost the same, unless waluigis in warios kart.

{{User:Paper Luigi DS/sig}}

nope. Waluigi's has that wierd "L" on it. {{User:Max2/sig}}

That is most likely Waluigi in Wario's kart, because the only difference is the Emblem, which is probably using the Emblem system like in MKDS... {{User:Uniju :D/sig}}

== I dont know ==

This game looks great but something tells me it is going to get low score. {{Unsigned|Drybones2}}

:Use [http://forum.mariowiki.com/ the forum] for statements like this, please. Talk pages are for discussion about the article, not the game itself. {{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}}

== Baby Luigi ==
Is baby Luigi confirmed for this game, because he is in the list of playable characters. [[user:javier12345|Javier12345]]
Yes, there were new screenshots that showed him. [[User:Fixitup]]

==Baby Mario Meadows==
Can someone tell me what grounds the conjecture was made on?  If it's just personal opinion, it should be changed to something like, "Unnamed Farm Course". {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 01:30, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

Someone can tell me where did you find  Luigi circuit and Dk pass within reappearing courses? {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
:Don't know how long ago you posted that, but I believe I found those in the first video, shown at e3 2007.  Sorry if I came across as rude, Coin. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:57, 30 October 2007 (EDT)

:Don't worry Stumpers, I saw the proof at some websites, altought they could be beta screens, who knows? the game is so far from being revealed {{User:Coincollector/sig}} keep with the work.

==Mario Circuit and the "Unnamed town"==

Look closely at the pictures of Mario Circuit and the unnamed town. They are closely the same, which leads me to believe that the "unnamed town" is just anothe part of Mario Circuit. [[User:King Boo|King Boo, you're a Mario Kart Wii]]

== About the old tracks in MKW... ==

Isn't there a link, a video, images or something where you can confirm the old tracks in the game or new tracks like Baby Luigi's track?

Some old courses will appear, and as many of them have been  seen trough screenshots, someone can consider that all of former tracks will appear (or perhaps some known classic tracks seen in [[Mario Kart DS]]), however, we need more information to check it out.
That baby luigi's course is a false info, who is putting that? {{User:Coincollector/sig}} I need a proof, and that is its source.

== Deleted Tracks ==

There were nearly twenty reappearing courses that were posted a few weeks ago, including Donut Plains 1 and Mario Circuit 1, but nearly half of them were deleted a few days later.  Does anyone know why? 

{{User:Glitchman/sig2}} 

:I honestly have no idea, but it usually has to do with lack of proof when a game hasn't been released.  If you have proof that those courses are in there, please post it along with a re-post of the deleted articles.  Generally, if you've found something that wasn't in a mainstream source (IGN.com, Nintendo.com) you'll want to site it to save yourself a headache later. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:23, 6 December 2007 (EST)

== Koopalings? ==

Ok, a few weeks ago it said the Koopalings were in it, it also said that dry bones and daisy and goomba were in it? Who said that stuff!

Whom even put should show some soures but I think it might be a rumor. (Koopaling in Mario Kart wii I doubt it!)
But there a chance for Daisy to appear and maybe Dry bones (Boo partner is Dry bones so maybe....) [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 16:27, 2 February 2008 (EST)

== Release Date ==

is that releasing date on NA confirmed? {{User:Coincollector/sig}} it doesn't note a reference or source on it. maybe that's not true then... (by the way, wikipedia puts the releasing date as March 15 -although this neither shows a source or reference on it-).

On wikipedia they changed it back to April 30. I just checked (Is it true that the Mii is playable?) [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:59, 6 February 2008 (EST)

== Shroom Ridge? ==

OK, I've clicked on the link (reference 5, [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169996]) and I think I've seen a track that looks like Shroom Bridge (middle picture in 2nd row of the screenshot gallery)! What do you think? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 04:24, 21 February 2008 (EST)

== Duplicate Images ==

I see that we have some problems about duplicate images, specialley these images...

The first row shows original pics already uploaded...
<gallery>
Image:Lightning.jpg
Image:NSMBBulletbill.jpg
Image:Blooper.PNG
Image:Star.PNG
Image:Mushroom2.PNG
</gallery>

And the second row shows images recently uploaded for the MKwii article...
<gallery>
Image:MKwii Star.jpg
Image:Mushroommkwii.jpg
Image:MKwii Thunderbolt.jpg
Image:MKwii Blooper.jpg
Image:MKwii Bulletbill.jpg
</gallery>

Then, I suggest that some duplicate images must be deleted and others kept... {{User:Coincollector/sig}}

:I suggest about deleting these images...
*[[:Image:Lightning.jpg]]
*[[:Image:MKwii Blooper.jpg]]
*[[:Image:MKwii Bulletbill.jpg]]
*[[:Image:Mushroommkwii.jpg]]

{{User:Coincollector/sig}}

Here's my image policy. 
*1. If it's character art, use it only once on the same page.
*2. If you find a good image, save it as PNG, NOT jpg.
*3. Editing site logos out is easy and quick.
*4. If an existing image is a different file type, and you have a better version, upload the better image and replace the previous one.
*5. If item artwork is reused for a game, it is ok to display it, character artwork however, is not ok.
*6. Even if a screenshot is GOOD it can be low-quality, therefore replace it if possible.
[[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]

:OK, but I think already did that. anyway, thanks for those points :) {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
::Please only delete the Mario Kart Wii ones.  The others are being used in one/two different articles.  If you do that, then you can put the image that is already on two articles into MKW, the third article.  It will be easier that way. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)

:OK, OK don't worry, I already did this, I've decided keep some MKWii-titled images, because they have a good quality as they could stay here. besides, the deletion list is over there, before my second signature {{User:Coincollector/sig}}

== New Wi-fi Information ==

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/2007/going_global_with_mario_kart_wii__7448.html

Wi-fi information, including online rankings!{{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

== sources ==

where are the sourses for the heavy weight, medium weight, lokced stuff? I think someone should put them on --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 09:06, 8 March 2008 (EST)

Wait? I just saw in the playable characters, Baby Wario, Petey, Diddy Kong, Birdo, and others. Then when I refreshed the page...they were gone. Are they confirmed or not? [[user:Toad allstar|Toad allstar]]
:This is stuff we should be citing for that reason: if real information is put up there that seems like fan speculation, someone's going to take it down.  Attach sources, everyone! ;) {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 15:54, 18 March 2008 (EDT)

==Rosalina!==
I need a source or a pix to see if she really playable! [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 11:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)

She is not confirmed to be playable, sorry. [[User:Toad allstar|Toad allstar]]

== Noki ==

What is this trash about noki? is this true, is she really in the game, i need sources! --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 19:26, 18 March 2008 (EDT)!

Doubt its true, BK. {{User:MegaMario9910/sig}}. Noki is kinda neglected...

== Birdo? ==

Is Birdo confirmed? I don't think so, because she's a lightweight in the article, although Yoshi's a middleweight. Could peolpe stop vandalizing the article? Can the article be protected, like Wikipedia? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:39, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

Not handy if a normal user like me would adding something that is officially seen/confirmed. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
    


Respuesta_ Pues claro que si va a salir Baby Birdo yo tengo varias imagenes donde se ven Mario,Luigi,etc y ademas se ven Daisy,Baby Birdo,Baby Yoshi,Birdo y Koppa Paratroppa pero no se como ponerles esas imagenes aqui en esta pagina y creanme que si son verdaderas please como las pongo
:Por favor, dimos el URL a los pinturas. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT) (did that make sense?)

Stumpers tu abla spanish?! [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:18, 23 March 2008 (EDT) 

:O nos puedes dar er "link"/"url" del lugar de donde tienes esa foto. O nos puedes decir el sitio. 

:Ingles:English: Can't be protected yet. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
::Well, I have no idea what's going on.  Birdoshi just claimed to have a link (if my Spanish doesn't stink), but now I'm being asked to show the link.  What's going on? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:37, 19 March 2008 (EDT)

I have no idea what that spanish or whatever thing said, but I agree this should be protected. Which genius put Baby Birdo (WTF) Baby Yoshi (...) and Baby Luigi (Thats the only plausable one) in the section when there are NO SOURCES. Nor are there for the paratroopa, IIRC. I maybe wrong, so I'm asking BEFORE I make a possibly-contriversial edit. [[User:GreenKoopa|GreenKoopa]] - [[User talk:GreenKoopa|Comments or questions?]] · [[Image:Koopa.gif]]

Answer     -hears if you do not understand the person to him who writes in Spanish because I recommend you that you see Dora the Explorer jaja and soon they say that those that speak in english they are very intelligent jajaja watches you cannot nor read what this in then Spanish who is the donkey the Spanish or your that you do not know what the one says because that I answer to him the Spanish is definitively the donkey your gringo

== Didddy :) ==

i saw the video that he was in nut how do you know he is medium wieght? ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>

== 2 more tracks ==

<nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>

other tracks

Moomview Highway

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=95123&page=1

Koopa Cape

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185273

Above artcle confirms 18 characters

Actully it confirms 18 ''unlockable'' charactors --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 13:55, 21 March 2008 (EDT)

In the link to Moomview Highway new versions of Bowser's Caslte and Rainbow Road are confirmed, which makes a total of 12 confirmed tracks. Also, I've seen Shroom Ridge on a screen shot (as retro track). I don't think there'll be 18 unlockables. But first I should read the article, lol. :) --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 20:08, 22 March 2008 (EDT)

The first link also confirmed the Special Cup and Moomview Highway, Bowser Castle and Rainbow Road are in it. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 12:08, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== 18 total charactors? ==

are there 30 total charactors or 18???{{unsigned|Blue Koop}}

18, JeuxFrance showed a video showing the select screen and it had 5 ?'s, he had 13 characters (the 12 starting characters + Diddy Kong) thus confirming 18 characters/6 unlockables. {{unsigned|Freekhenstra}}

== what ==

The page is just missing and it said yes, my brother did it, i thought he was blocked --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 09:42, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Secret Characters? ==

How do we know Daisy and Diddy will be in this game?

{{User:Dry Bones/sig}}

well i saw them in a couple trailers, i don't have the sources though, someone else might
but how do we know there weights? {{User:Blue Koop/sig}}

Japanese Official Site, but if you don't have sources, I don't belive you, you may be lying..... But probaly not! Can you PLEASE try to find the sources.....

{{User:Dry Bones/sig}}

I'll try ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>

http://media.wii.ign.com/media/949/949580/vids_1.html

this might be one of them ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>

Daisy is in the IGN Flower Cup video on the map (Youtube has low quality, go to IGN itself), and Diddy was seen in the character selection in a video of JeuxFrance. Don't have links. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

== Weight-class karts and bikes ==

I've read on the GameFAQs Message Board of MKW that the karts and bikes will be divided into weight classes, that means everyone in the same weightclass shares his/her karts and bikes with the others of the same weight class. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 12:11, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

== Birdo y Toadette? ==

Y donde quedaron Birdo y Toadette?
Al parecer se estan olvidando de ellas ya que no las pusieron como playable characters en :
Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games 
tambien en:
Super Smash Bros Brawl, de hecho en este juego no salieron ni de assist trophies solamente salieron de simples trofeos que ni sirven para nada esos trofeos   -  nosotros queremos usarlas como playable characeters jugar con ellas pero no no las ponen y ahora me encuentro con que en Mario Kart Wii empiezas con 12 characters y solamente sacas otros 6 characeters esas son chingaderas y por si fuera poco no se han visto entre esos 6 characters la Birdo y la Toadette que son personajes clave en los juegos de Mario ya que ellas han salido en bastantes juegos de Mario y ya ahorita ellas deberian ser como Daisy que siempre la ponen bueno no es justo que solamente pongan a Daisy en Mario Kart Wii tambien queremos que pongan a Birdo y a Toadette  todas parejas para que asi esten  Peach   Daisy    Birdo    y   Toadette  las 4 juntas como deberia ser siempre en todos los juegos de Mario pero eso es lo que Nintendo no quiere entender   ya que hacen unos juegos bien divertidos y nosotros solamente estamos esperando a que salga el juego para comprarlo y jugarlo y luego con lo que salen  QUE NO PONEN A BIRDO Y TOADETTE  y luego la larga espera de que nos sirvio  de que nos sirvio estar  pensando en el juego de que como se jugaria y de como seria y luego para que te enteres de que no salen Birdo y Toadette o tu personaje favorito  en el dichoso juego pues logico que te enojas y te decepcionas una vez mas de Nintendo y acabas por no comprar el juego esa es la verdad  
Si van a hacer un juego haganlo bien y pongan a los personajes basicos que son  Mario  Luigi  Wario  Waluigi  Peach  Daisy  Yoshi  Birdo  Toad  Toadette  Boo  y  Dry Bones esos son los personajes que no deben faltar en cualquier juego de Mario ya que son muy importantes y cada uno de ellos y ellas tiene millones de fans asi que ahora espero que les haya quedaddo entendido que al no poner a un personaje decepcionan a millones de fans y se que solo es un detalle lo del personaje pero ese detalle determina si se venda mucho el juego o no ahora espero que reflexionen sobre esto y ahora si pongan a Birdo y a Todette en Mario Krt Wii ya que todavia se pueden agregar por que todavia no ha salido y si es por eso pueden retrasarlo unas semanas mas   total si  nos esperamos mucho tiempo en que saliera Super Smash Bros Brawl por que no podemos esperarnos unas semanas mas para jugar Mario Kart Wii total la espera tiene sus recompensas y no como otros juegos que por hacerlo rapido al final cuando lo estan jugando en sus casas dicen a etaria bien padre el juego si pasara esto o si saliera un personaje y asi se queda el juego asi que mejor hagan los juegos con calma y no se apresuren por que todos se pueden esperar un poco mas digo ahi tienen mas juegos con que entretenerse mientras esperan el juego nuevo.


In English:

And where they were left Birdo and Toadette? Apparently they forget them since they did not put like playable characters in: Mario & Sonic AT The Olympic Games also in: Super Smash Bros Brawl, in fact in this game did not leave nor assist trophies only left simple trophies that nor are used for anything those trophies - we want to use them as playable characeters to play with them but does not put you and now I am whereupon in Mario Kart Wii you begin with 12 characters and only other 6 extractions characeters that are a stupidity and to top it all have not seen between those 6 characters the Birdo and the Toadette that is characters key in the games of Mario since they have left in enough games of Mario and or right now they must be like Daisy that always puts it good is not right that they only put to Daisy in Mario Kart Wii also we want that they put to Birdo and to Toadette all pairs so that they are Peach Daisy Birdo and Toadette the 4 meetings as it always must of being in all the games of Mario but that are what Nintendo does not want to understand since they match affluent amused and we are only hoping to that he leaves the game to buy it and to play it soon and with which they leave THAT THEY SOON DO NOT PUT To BIRDO and TOADETTE and the long delay as which serves to us as which it serves to us to be thinking about the game that as gambled and of like sera and soon so that you find out that Birdo and Toadette do not leave or your character favorite in the happy then then game you get angry and you are disappointed once again of Nintendo and you finish not buying the game that is the truth If they are going to match is necessary to make sure that this good and this complete one and put to characters that they cannot lack that they are Mario Luigi Wario Waluigi Peach Daisy Yoshi Birdo Toad Toadette Boo and Dry Bones those are characters that do not have to lack in any game of Mario since they are very important and each one of them and they has million of fans asi that now I hope that to them it has been understood that when not putting to to character they disappoint to million of fans and that single the one of character is a detail but that detail determines if much is sold the game or but now I hope that they reflect on this and now if they put to Birdo and to Todette in Mario Kart Wii since if it reaches the time to be able to add them so that it has not even left the game and if it is for that reason they can delay it weeks but total if we were expected long time in that Super Smash Bros Brawl left so that we cannot wait for weeks to us but to play Mario Kart total Wii the delay has his you compensate and not like other games that to make it in the end fast when they estan playing in its houses say that there was been or father the game if it passed this or if it left to character and asi the game is had left asi that better the games with calm do and they do not hurry so that all can be waited for a little but I say ahi have but games whereupon to entertain itself while they wait for the new game. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
:Is this related to the article in any way? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 19:42, 23 March 2008 (EDT)

Is not necessary that supporting characters (birdo, toadette, dry bones, or somebody else) don't have to get in the game, so, don't write something that, unless it's factible -{{User:Coincollector/sig}}

Respuesta:
Para tu informacion Birdo y Toadette si son muy importantes en los juegos de Mario y no se a veces no las ponen yo no se se les olvidara ponerlas o que se yo pero si se que deberian ponerlas y las cosas que puse  son ciertas pero bueno ya no voy a poner cosas asi en la pagina de discusion de Mario Kart Wii que de hecho si puedo escribir eso por que es una pagina de discusion daaaa pero ya mejor ya no escribo eso para que te calles la boca coincollector y descanses tus lindos dedos de seguirme contestando ok {{unsigned|Birdoshi}} 

:Se bueno con Coinollector. No podemos agregar la informacion de que Birdo y Toadette estan en el juego asta que tengamos prueba. Tienes una prueba de que estan en el juego? Como una foto? http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif


Respuesta:
La verdad no tengo ninguna imagen  que confirme a las 2 (Birdo y Toadette)en Mario Kart Wii, bueno tengo una imagen de Baby Birdo pero ya la pense y no creo que sea real aunque se ve muy bonilla la imagen y bien trabajada pero no creo que sea verdad y no se como poner un link o algo parecido para que la veas bueno el caso es que puse lo de Birdo y Toadette por que queria que ustedes le dijieran a las personas de Nintendo que estan trabajando en Mario Kart Wii que pusieran a Birdo y a Toadette como playable characters en Mario Kart Wii pues yo pense eso por toda la informacion que tienen en esta pagina (Super Mario Wiki) y todas las cosas acerca de los juegos, personajes, y como se supieron la informacion de personajes y todo eso de Super Smash Bros Brawl antes que la de Smash Bros Dojo! y toda es cierta pues pense : esta es una pagina buena y ha de tener alguna relacion con Nintendo porque como para tener toda esa informacion de Mario Kart Wii, Smash, Stadium Baseball, entre otros antes de que otra pagina entonces Nintendo les ha de dar la informacion,entonces puse lo de Birdo y Toadette por que queria que ustedes le dijieran a  Nintendo que pusieran a Birdo y a Toadette como playable characters en Mario Kart Wii  entonces Nintendo les pasa la informacion y la pagina es buena  o es como cualquier otra pagina y la informacion de donde la sacan que o que pasa aqui responde Paper Jorge
{{unsigned|Birdoshi}}

Para tu información, toda la información que sacamos de esto es a partir de varias páginas web que hablan de esto. usamos ésas páginas de internet como fuente de información o referencias para desarrollar los artículos que hay en este wiki. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Ojalá que tuviéramos un vínculo o un acuerdo con la Nintendo, pero la verdad no tenemos nada que ver con respecto a la compañía.

:Eso es cierto. Nintendo solo da la informacion por su pagina web o las revistas de Nintendo. Y Nintendo todavia no a confirmado ni a Baby Birdo, Birdo o a Toadette. No savemos si estan en el juego o no asi de que no podemos poner la informacion asta que estemos seguros. En que sitio esta la imagen de Baby Birdo? http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])
<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif


Hey Paper Jorge ya te dije que la imagen de Baby Birdo la tengo yo en la carpeta mis imagenes por que la vi en un sitio y me gusto la imagen y le pulse al boton (Imp Pan) luego puse paint y le puse pegar y guarde la imagen   y el sitio donde estaba se me olvido como se llamaba pues como ese dia visite muchisimos sitios ya ni me acuerdo y luego ese dia borre el historial porque era un monton de paginas y era un revoltijo asi que borre el historial y nadams tengo la imagen y no tengo el link o algo parecido. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}



::Dun talk Spanish, I don't understand anything. :( Anyway, from the translation: "characters that they cannot lack that they are Mario Luigi Wario Waluigi Peach Daisy Yoshi Birdo Toad Toadette Boo and Dry Bones those are characters that do not have to lack in any game of Mario since they are very important and each one of them and they has million of fans". Neither Bowser nor DK are included in this list, because the listed characters are the characters that appear in MP7. I don't think (though I hope) Toadette and Birdo are included and that fanon text doesn't make it more likely. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

::: Mira  PaperStriker se me olvido poner a Donkey Kong y a Bowser pero es obvio que tambien tienen muchos fans al igual que todos los personajes de Mario y respecto a que esos personajes solo aparecen en Mario Party 7 es una mentira muy grande ya que tambien salen en Mario Superstar Baseball,Mario Party 8, Super Mario Strikers Charged,Mario Super Stadium Bseball, Mario Kart Double Dash,y en fin en muchos otros mas y ojala y que Mario Kart Wii sea como Mario Kart Double Dash y que tenga todos los personajes de Mario Kart Double Dash mas Dry Bones y uno que otro nuevo y para que entiendas el español ponte a ver el programa de    Dora La Exploradora te aseguro que con ella y su amigo el chango aprenderas el idioma español aunque eso te va a llevar tiempo pero de todas formas te repito lo anterior en tu idioma el ingles. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}

PaperStriker  sight I forget to me to put to Donkey Kong and Bowser but it is obvious that also they have many fans like all characters of single Mario and with respect to which those characters appear in Mario Party 7 is a very great lie since also they leave in Mario Superstar Baseball, Mario Party 8, Super Mario Strikers Charged, Super Mario Stadium Bseball, Mario Kart Double Dash, and in aim in many other but and desire that Mario Kart Wii is like Mario Kart Double Dash and that has all characters of Mario Kart Double Dash but Dry Bones and one that another new one and so that you understand the Spanish I recommend to see to you Dora the explorer.  I assure to you that with her and its friend the monkey you are going to learn the Spanish language although that is going to take time to you but in any case already I said to the answer in your language english to you.
hey brother you are not created the one of Dora the Explorer single joked sorry {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}

Um...? <_< I don't think I'll learn Spanish that quickly... But I speak German. :P {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

== babe birdo ==
was baby birdo a fluke or april fools joke??? or what, there WAS a image of her. {{unsigned|Blue Koop}}
:It's false, the image was altered as if she were another character... :| {{User:Coincollector/sig}} but looks like pretty real though.

Your wright, it does look real, but i read somewhere it was based off her mp8 look --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 21:27, 26 March 2008 (EDT)

==Koopa Cape and Daisy Pier==

What do you think about this image?
Left one is from Koopa Cape, right one fron Daisy Pier (Daisy's circuit)
Should we add some info. about them?
[[Image:Mariokartwiipics.jpg]] {{unsigned|Amaral}}

Where did you find this? (and specially, those names) {{User:Coincollector/sig}} then, you can put here.
:Koopa Cape was confirmed above in a review (along with Moomview Highway, Bowser Castle and Rainbow Road). --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:01, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== Toadette ==

If you go to this site [http://www.jeux-france.com/news25597_mario-kart-wii-6-nouvelles-videos.html] and start playing the 2nd video you can see on 1:05 to 1:08 Toadette in the last place on the map. You can also see the Daisy and Koopa tracks and a Wiggler course in this video.
{{User:Arend/Sig}}

Are you sure that was Toadette??? {{User:Blue Koop/Sig}}

I'm very sure. Who do you think it is? I can't see an other character in it. {{User:Arend/Sig}}

:OK, Toadette is confirmed. But are the others (like Birdo, Toadsworth, etc.) in the article confirmed, too? {{User:PaperStriker/sig}} (forgot to add my sig...)

== Shroom Ridge deleted? ==

Um, who has deleted Shroom Ridge from the Retro track list? In citaion 8, 2nd picture, 2nd row in the gallery, you can see something that looks extremely similar to Shroom Ridge. It has the same street and the same walls, both are rather unique to this course, so it's clearly Shroom Ridge. Any comments? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

It was the new Mario Circuit. Not Shroom Ridge. {{User:Arend/Sig}}

:OK, thanks. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

== References ==

<s>I've put the link that confirms Moomview Highway, Bowsr Castle and Rainbow Road, but I don't know how to merge the references. They're all three seperate from each other at the bottom of the page (named [2], [3] and [4], lol). Can someone help me? :(</s> Never mind, have done it. :) --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:53, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
:Aw, too bad I wasn't on when you needed help!  I just did that for the new ''Dr Mario.'' {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:13, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

== ??? Desert ==

are you sure thats not Yoshi Deasert from MKSC?? --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 11:45, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

:No, because all retro tracks are confirmed in the link. BTW, if anyone wants me to translate that info, just ask. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
]]
i'd like you  to, you know translate it to english --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 14:51, 28 March 2008 (EDT)

::Hmm, let's see:
The new courses in detail

That's only here: We have played Mario Kart Wii and present the MAN!AC-controlled track guide. How do the new circuits look like? Where are the meanest traps hidden, when should you best overtake the others and which course is especially short, really difficult or exceptional beautiful?

Mushroom Cup

Luigi Circuit

A typical "Mario Kart" introduction course: You drive short laps on the asphalt circuit between succulent grass. Long straightaways dominate the track. You can pass some drivers on the boost pads before the finish line.

Moo Moo Meadows

64-drivers know the peaceful farm-scenery, but the new track is better than the classic. You grab cool items at the big jump, then you should avoid the braking grass - and on the course tere are some moles.

Mushroom Gorge

The first highlight: The colorful circuit surprises with great mushroom-jump passages, two branchings and a hairpin turn shortly before the finish line. Whoever falls into the pit at the trampoline mushrooms, loses the joining quickly.

Toad's Factory

We liked especially this course at the test session: Many conveyor belts move you sideways, others brake or accelerate you. You'll rarely be squashed by the big crusher, you shouldn't miss the boost pads in any case.

Flower Cup

Mario Circuit

Directly after the start, the town drivethrough becomes narrow, avoid the wrangling at your best - then the simple course shouldn't be a problem for you. Either pass the Chain Chomp with a competent drift or just race away behind its back.

Coconut Mall

This mall is crazy: You race for the victory on different levels - but choose the right escalators.
After a monster jump and a 90° curve you turn to the mean finish straightaway - the cars there will stand several races on their heads.

DK Summit

Whoever liked the mountain rally from the Cube, will love the Summit. A cannon shoots you to to the top, then you drive into the valley. Stunts help you through the braking snow in the halfpipe, on the hump circuit you shouldn't miss the ski-jumps - you'll fall down more than once at the hairpin turn.

Wario's Gold Mine

Do you recognize this track? Here we had the first pictures of the game. You race over tops that would be good enough for a rollercoaster. The one who gets past the bats and waggons can beat everyone on the finish straightaway with a stunt-turbo.

Star Cup

Daisy Circuit

Don't let you distract by the huge gold statues or beautiful sunsets, but concentrate on the mean zigzag curves - good drivers race almost straight here; but else it's an unspectacular course.

Koopa Cape

Welcome to the water-fun paradise: You race, or better raft down the mountain brook and master many jumps - careless drivers will be dragged along by the current at the end. You make a mega drift in the underwater pipe - the energy barriers don't pose a threat.

Maple Treeway

This track is inspired by "Super Mario Galaxy". Race through the heap of leaves and let you be charm by fall-like colors. Be careful at the field with the two Wigglers and some narrow passages on tree trunks - whoever drifts competently and doesn't fall down, wins!

Thundering Volcano

Graphically the course isn't that impressing, but great drivers can prove their skills. Avoid the meteorites, curve around the hopping Lava baddies and get the right branching. Wanton drivers land in the fire lake and can forget the victory, though.

Because we can't give out information about unlockable drivers and courses until the release termin at April 11th on instruction of Nintendo, you have to dispence with descriptions of the 4 new courses. But we really would have liked to explain how to get from the sandy ruins over the Highway and Rainbow Road to the Castle of the big baddie...

16 classic "Mario Kart"-tracks

Here you get to know whether your favorite courses from "Super Mario Kart", "Mario Kart 64", "Mario Kart Super Circuit", "Mario Kart Double Dash!!" or "Mario Kart DS" are playable. The following courses are in "Mario Kart Wii":

Ghost Valley 2 (SNES)

Mario Circuit 3 (SNES)

Bowser's Castle (N64)

DK Jungle Parkway (N64)

Mario Raceway (N64)

Sherbet Land (N64)

Bowser Castle 3 (GBA)

Shy Guy Beach (GBA)

DK Mountain (GC)

Mario Circuit (GC)

Peach Beach (GC)

Waluigi Stadium (GC)

Desert Hills (DS)

Peach Gardens (DS)

Delfino Plaza (DS)

Yoshi Falls (DS)


Gosh, that was much work... I'm not that perfect at English, so excuse me if it wasn't translated exactly, but I've tried my best. :D {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

good job traslating this into english, but which language was first? reading the section, they describe the racecourses by their opininons. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} I want to know where did you find this.

:It was the link in the ??? Desert section and it was in German. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

== Princess Rosalina!? ==

An user put a link that one secret character viewed from the official nintendo magazine Italy, is coming from Super Mario Galaxy... ''Sua Splendidezza'' {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Will be Rosalina? I don't put anything of this if someone have considered that rosalina has been a recognizable character...

* Here is the [http://brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14859 Link]

:Rosalina, I think, because the bosses can't drive and Luma is unlikely. Bowser Jr. (if he counts) is even more likely, though. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
::There's no reason to jump to conclusion about it being Rosalina.  It could very well be Kamella or even King Kaliente for that matter.  After all, Petey Piranha and King Boo were added after their boss appearances in Mario Sunshine, it'd make sense if the character from Mario Galaxy is a boss. [[User:UrsulaBoi|UrsulaBoi]] 15:34, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
:::Yes, but imagine Major Burrows, Topmaniac or Bugaboom driving around. If the unlockable character ''appeared'' in SMG, it would be Bowser Jr.. If he or she ''debuted'' there, it would be Rosalina. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 15:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT) Too lazy to add my sig. :P

Well, I never put that she will surely appear, however some user(s)are being brain-washed by false and speculative info, that might be false in the future. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} However, if it means ''Sua Spledidezza'', means to woman or girl - because, Bowser Jr. is not so splendid...


I have readed on a web-page that a Dutch magazine N-Gamer said ''A girl with twinkle eyes'' will be playble. 
It looks to me like Roslalina, but again, it's not sure if this is true. {{User:Arend/Sig}}

:@Coincollector: I don't speak Italian, so I couldn't know... And if the character is female, then it's either Rosalina (very likely), a female Luma (very unlikey) or Kamella (also very unlikely). {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
::It's still speculation, we can't put most-likeliness as a source. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 09:51, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
::: I can understand (a bit) of some italian words, because they have certain similarities with my language. therefore, that therm could tell about a woman. --{{User:Coincollector/sig}} 13:17, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

It could be Queen Bee, but it's most likely Rosalina. But you never know, I live in the Netherlands and some magazine's here search on the internet for information, find a fake roster and use it. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

I think some user vandal Rosalina page because a user post that she is playable but this is uncomfirmed. Should I remove this info untill we receive a trustful soucre or a offical artwork? [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:56, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

== Post-Release To-Do List ==

This game launches very soon.  Please post obscure stuff that should be done when the game is released here. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 18:40, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
#Delete [http://www.mariowiki.com/Image:Toadetemkwii.png this image], as secret characters only need reference until the game has been released. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 18:40, 30 March 2008 (EDT)

::Your request's done -{{User:Coincollector/sig}} I think I'll wait for the game too for substantious info.

Missions, how you unlock stuff, karts & motorcycles and course maps. I'm gonna get it April 10th. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

Bedoel je niet 11 april? Het spel komt op die datum in Nederland. {{User:Arend/Sig}}

Weet ik, maar hier ontvangen ze spellen op woensdag en zetten ze het in de winkel op donderdag, dus 10 april {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

== 18 or 24? ==

When I saw a video at JeuxFrance the character select screen had 18 characters (13 characters (Starting + Diddy) and 5 ?'s).
The first six are light weights, the middle six are middle and weights the last six are heavy weights.
I thought it confirmed 18 characters, but now some say it's 24.
If it is true that there are 18 characters, There's only one unconfirmed and that's a heavy weight (I don't count Rosalina).
So if Rosalina is confirmed and there are 18 characters, she must be a heavy weight (which she is most likely not).
What I'm trying to say is if there are 18 characters, Rosalina is very likely not playable. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

There are 24 (excluding Mii) because Nintendo confirmed it in a Japanese trailer. If you have not unlocked anything you will see no ?'s. If you unlock more, more ?'s will appear. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
:Yeah, I'd not trust the ?'s, Super Smash Bros. Melee also had more unlockable characters than ?'s on the screen. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 10:26, 31 March 2008 (EDT)

What trailer? EDIT: I found it :) {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

== Track order + Yoshi Desert ==

In [http://brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14859&st=0&sk=t&sd=a this link] someone posted the (speculative) track order and the name of the desert. Since "content of speculative nature is allowed" (see the template on the top of the page), I'd suggest we'd add that order of tracks. There's also a (again, speculative) character roster. What do '''you''' think? Should we add that info? {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

1)I think you can add the track order and/or name. We can always change names of tracks and track orders if we find more info about it. The name of the track Maple Treeway isn't also confirmed, but it sounds and looks like it is the real name.
2)Can't we make a ''suspected characters'' section on this page? 
{{User:Arend/Sig}}

:1) OK, I've added it.
:2) I think this would be a good idea, since many people keep adding fake characters to the character section. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

::BTW, Maple Treeway's name is confirmed [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185351 here]. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

==  Toadette on video (not icon) ==

[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqG14jBDPNo&NR=1 click!]Go to around 40. At around 41/42 Toadette passes Peach on Peach Beach.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 13:32, 2 April 2008 (EDT)

Well, this "toad" (as a species) has a pink cap with white spots, perhaps she is toadette, although i can't watch very well, because it's blurry {{User:Coincollector/sig}} wait a little more, uhm... until we get the game?

:It could be the [[Radio Contest Toad]]. ;) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}

Good point, paperstriker <D. By this, since we heard that at least, 24 characters in total (excluding Miis) are going to appear, there is the possibility that any character of the mario-verse could appear -besides the most known characters... {{User:Coincollector/sig}}

I've watched a sharper version of the video and it looks like Toadette. {{User:Arend/sig}}

Found another...[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xWkM--kBfU&feature=related click] She's right at the beginning.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 14:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

^That one was Baby Peach for sure, not Toadette -Pikatwo

*Wow... The Baby Stroller Kart makes it look like Toadette's head...[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 21:03, 3 April 2008 (EDT)

The official JP site has the same vid (Opening Cinematic), but with better quality. I'm 99% sure it's Toadette. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

== Iwata Asks: Mario Kart Wii ==

There's an "Iwata Asks" about MKW now:
http://uk.wii.com/software/interviews/mario_kart/vol1/index.html

It revealed some things about MKW:
*If you only use the Wii Wheel and never use another controller, you get a Golden Wii Wheel next to your name, but if you use another controller, it will change back to a white one.
*There's a new mode called Ghost Battles where you race against ghosts.
*There's another new mode that looks like "100-Man Brawl" from SSBB.
*There will be a new character from SMG
{{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

That new character may be Rosalina, I'm 50% sure. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
:Who else I wonder could it be?  Toad is there, so another member of the Toad Brigade is unlikely... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 10:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

Maybe it's Queen Bee (Imagines Queen Bee on a motorbike). It'll be Rosalina, 70% sure.
What could the 100-Man Brawl-like thing be? {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

The only other character that ''could'' be from SMG would be a Luma and I doubt that. It's probably Rosalina. {{User:Mcoolister/sig}}

Actually, It coulld also be [[Kamella]]. {{User:Mcoolister/sig}}

:Also, I saw some european pages that talk about using classical controllers in mario kart wii: although you can play with these controllers, you can't perform so many moves  (as tricks or speeding up the bike) as you can do with the Wii-mote {{User:Coincollector/sig}} by the other hand, I guess it should be Rosalina, a luma is not very possible, although it could be magikoopa too, because she was a classic character that made  a -prototype- appearance in MK64.

It is a character debuting in SMG! Not just appearing in it, that's what I meant with "new". {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

It could be a boss, there was petey from sunshine in Double Dash --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 13:56, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

According to IGN, the GameCube controller can pull of those tricks with the + control pad. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:00, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

*It doesn't mean they're new and came from SMG, they mean it's new to Mario Kart.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 14:05, 4 April 2008 (EDT)

*It does, if they mean Magikoopa they wouldn't have said it came from SMG. They said this: "By the way, a new character has joined in from Super Mario Galaxy, so I hope you look forward to it…". If it didn't debut in Super Mario Galaxy, they wouldn't have said that. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

Ok, I was just thinking. they only said that you cannot perform certain moves with classical controllers. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Now, it's time we stop talking who is the secret character from SMG here. talk that in the chat, don't you?

== Amerikan site ==
It is a small site but the intro movie of mariokart wii is very large.
the adress of the site is http://www.mariokart.com/wii
{{User:Arend/Sig}}
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-{{FATALK}}
+{{partofpipe|image=[[Image:MKDS_art small.jpg]]|type=article|name=Mario Kart|goal=create race & battle course articles and expand on the [[Mario Kart Series]] game pages}}
-{{no forum talk}}
-{| class="infobox" style="float:right;border:black double 1px;background-color:#fdfdff;padding: 0.5em; margin: 0.5em 0.5em 1em;width:270px"
-|-
-! align="center" | '''Mario Kart Wii Discussion Archives'''
-----
-|-
-|
-*'''[[Talk:Mario Kart Wii/Archive 1|Archive 1]]'''
-*'''[[Talk:Mario Kart Wii/Archive 2|Archive 2]]'''
-|}
-<br clear="all">
-==PAL to NTSC==
+==Daisy==
-Hello there everyone. :)
+Wasn't Daisy there?--{{User:Aipom/sig}}--
-Now that I've got almost every character and nearly a * rank, I'm turning my attention to this article. I notice that PAL players have already got the basics down, but according to the [[MarioWiki:Manual of Style|Manual of Style]], we must use NTSC as the main and mention any PAL differences as the side. This doesn't just affect DK's Snowboard Cross to DK Summit, mind you:
+Good Lord, I hope not :P If she is, add her, although it may go against your conscience. {{User:Plumber/Pignature}}
-*Quite a few vehicles have different names: Rapide --> Zip Zip, Nitrocycle --> Sneakster, etc. Stats are still the same, though.
-*Competitions on Mario Kart Wii channel are called Tournaments
-I would think there are other small tidbits as well. If I could get some more NTSC players to find all the differences between this and the PAL version, that would be great. :) {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 11:05, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
+What are you talking about, Plumber? Anyway, Wikipedia didn't say Daisy was in the game. However, that might just be an error. I'll keep checking back. In the meantime, I won't put her on the page. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
-Argg! I have said it 2 times before and I will say it again. Use both the PAL and NTSC names. PAL names aren't less official than the NTSC names. If we use only NTSC names it will be confusing for PAL readers. And if we only use PAL names, it's confusing for NTSC readers. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
+I haven't seen her either, and you know I'm a Daisy fan.  I think we've pretty much got all the characters.
-:I said NTSC as the primary names and PAL as the secondary. We can't treat them equally, but close to it is fine. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 14:52, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
-I agree using both names is MUCH better as this was  one of the only european pages as everyday this site is becoming more of an american site than an american AND a european site we should do a vote to decide what to do BEFORE we take action [[User:Superluigigalaxy|Superluigigalaxy]]  18:43 8 May 2008
+Plumber: ....<br>
+DP: Wikipedia doesn't catch on to most info right away. That's why our SSBB article PWNs theirs.<br>
+Overall answer: Don't add her until she is actually seen in a screenshot or mentioned.{{User:Knife/sig}} 23:05, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
+:Lol, yeah, Plumbers statement was wierd. Anyway, like I said, do not add her until we see her in a screenshot, or Nintendo says she is in it. Also, our SSBB article is WAY better. MarioWiki pwns Wikipedia :P {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
-Finally, something has been done to deal with this. I think we should change the WiiVehicles template to NTSC naming. For PAL people, we can have a redirect. I've already seen a redirect from the [[Bon Bon]] to the [[Sugarscoot]]. That way, both can be happy. {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 15:36, 4 May 2008 (EDT)
+"Excuse me princess", but plumber's a hatin' n00b. [[User:Fixitup]]
-I think I have to agree with superluigigalaxy, because until something is officially chosen, the articles are going to keep on changing. I just saw someone add both names to the main article, and that really can't be done. Maybe we should make it a proposal? {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 16:20, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
+==Logo==
+I found an image of the logo alone recently and decided to update the image we used for the logo.  Then I uploaded a higher resolution image of Mario & Luigi playing the Wii (check the bottom of the article).  My problem is that the logo isn't showing up in it's updated form, but rather it shows the low-resolution image of Mario and Luigi.  Anyone know how to fix this? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 08:28, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
+:Yes. Ctrl+F5, or revisiting the website. This always happens when you upload newer versions of files. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 08:42, 18 July 2007 (EDT)
+::Thanks! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:17, 19 July 2007 (EDT)
-The new vehicle chart is a step in the right direction but having two versions of the chart for PAL and NTSC is not gonna work. Names are the only difference, and the two big obnoxious charts is a lot of extra space for a simple difference of naming. [[User:Wholahay|Wholahay]] 15:56, 10 May 2008 (EDT)
+== Baby Mario and Luigi ==
+Man,I hate those two in this game,and I wish they didn't exist.{{User:Fg/sig}}
+:But think of it this way.  Nintendo tends to balance out the distribution of lightweight and heavyweight characters.  The inclusion of the babies could indicate the inclusion of two very cool heavyweights.  You never know.  Yeah, yeah... I know it'll probably just be Petey Piranha and King Boo, but whatever. {{User:Stumpers/sig}}
-I own the PAL version of Mario Kart Wii, and the worldwide challenges are called Competitions not Tournements, I'm not sure whether this is because the PAL version has a different name for it or not, but I think it needs revising. Please can someone with the NTSC version confirm this.
+Just a reminder, post stuff like this on the forum, not talk pages. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]
-By the way, I'm from Europe, and it is unfair to decide that because the majority of users are American that all articles should be written for American readers. I know that even though we don't have as many European '''users''', we are open to European viewers just as much as American viewers.
-[[User:Scruffy|Scruffy]] 12:39 20 December 2008 (GMT)
-:I think Steve has statistics that show that 1% of the site's viewers are Europeans. The problem with naming is that an article can't have two names. So we had to go for the American names. Any European names are still listed in the article and there are redirects: [[Bon Bon]].
-:And yes the American name for competitions is tournaments. It should even be in the article:
-<blockquote>"Tournament Mode" (also known as Competition mode in PAL versions)</blockquote>
-:- {{User:Cobold/sig}} 08:00, 20 December 2008 (EST)
-:I don't exactly know what PAL and NTSC means, but in the American and European version (for exaple) the [[Bon Bon]] is called the [[Bon Bon]]. In Africa, it's called the [[Sugarscoot]]. Why don't we redirect them as [[Bon Bon]]/[[Sugarscoot]], then? Or maybe as [[Bon Bon]] (known in Africa as the Sugarscoot) {{User:Toad'ShyGuy/sig}}
+== Boo ==
-== Tricks? Stunts? ==
+Why do people keep on adding Boo to the playable character list? That might as well have been King Boo! I am sure that Boo will stay as an item, it wouldnt make any sence if they replaced the almighty King Boo with just a simple Boo as a playable character...
+:{{User:Mat_rix_007/sig}}
+:Why don't we post a "Boo/King Boo" in its place? {{User:Stumpers/sig}}
+::I hate Wikipedia. They are the main target for vandalism, which does terrors for us. They still haven't removed Boo nor King Boo yet, so, I suppose they are both true. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}} Why must people vandalize :(
+:There's no crown. So its definitely a normal Boo. So either Boo isnt an item anymore, or King Boo takes over the role of item.--[[User:King Boo|310898920470920674988d.gif]] 18:19, 15 October 2007 (EDT)
-What are they called in the game & manual in English? My version only knows stunts. The article seems to know both. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 16:13, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
+== Wario's Mines ==
-They're called [[Trick|tricks]] :) {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 16:18, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
+I was just wondering where we got the name for this course.  I'm not saying that someone just made it up, but I've seen that happen before, so I'm just double checking! {{User:Stumpers/sig}} (please don't be mad!)
-:I checked back my German manual and it still reads "Stunts". Maybe add a note to PAL difference and use "Tricks" on the other parts of the article. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 16:21, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
-Tricks, stunts both have nearly the same meaning. I don't think we need to go out of our way just the note that.{{User:Knife/sig}} 12:29, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
+== Baby Luigi? ==
-:I lost you in the second sentence. What should we do exactly? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 12:33, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
-Do nothing. Its fine to use them interchangeably.{{User:Knife/sig}} 14:51, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
+How do we know he's in the game?
-==twinkle stars an item?==
+{{User:Dry Bones/sig| I saw Baby Mario, but not Baby Luigi.}}
-when i clicked on the twinkle star i came up as the shooting star "item", can someone tell me why this has been done please! [[User:Superluigigalaxy|Superluigigalaxy]]
+:Baby Luigi has been on the Wikipedia list for about a Month now, probably longer, actually. That's how I know, at least. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
-:Sounds like you are referring to the [[wikipedia:Help:Pipe trick|pipe trick]]. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 05:32, 11 May 2008 (EDT)
+I wonder how they know he's in the game?
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 19:55, 12 May 2008 (EDT) Baby Luigi:Unlock 8 Expert Staff Ghost, but like!!? I do not understand!
+{{User:Dry Bones/sig| Also I havn't seen any comfirm for Koopa.}}
-:It means that eight of the staff records for Time Trial must be unlocked, but I'm not sure how you unlock those. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:22, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:40, 14 May 2008 (EDT) Thanks stumpers!
+==Waluigi And Wario==
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:33, 13 May 2008 (EDT)Hello!, well, and the mode: Bob-omb Blast of Mario Kart Double Dash!!, return in Mario Kart Wii?
+Waluigi's and Wario's kart look almost the same, unless waluigis in warios kart.
-:Not that I am aware. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:22, 13 May 2008 (EDT)
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:40, 14 May 2008 (EDT) uummm..
+{{User:Paper Luigi DS/sig}}
+nope. Waluigi's has that wierd "L" on it. {{User:Max2/sig}}
-There are two kinds of Staff Ghosts, Juniors and Experts. After you select a course on Time Trials, you can see your Ghost and the Junior SG. If you get a certain time, which is about 4 seconds faster than the Junior SG on most courses, it will say "You have unlocked an Expert Staff Ghost". If it says that, the Junior SG will be replaced by the Expert SG. And it doesn't mark the courses where you got an Expert SG. And the only Battle Modes are Coin Runners and Balloon Battle {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
+That is most likely Waluigi in Wario's kart, because the only difference is the Emblem, which is probably using the Emblem system like in MKDS... {{User:Uniju :D/sig}}
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:44, 14 May 2008 (EDT)Aahh,is easy!.
+== I dont know ==
---http://www.mariowiki.com/images/1/1b/Mauj.gif 16:40, 14 May 2008 (EDT)Oh buuu, I like the mode: Bomb-omb Blast,mmmm, well, Thanks, thanks, boys!!
+This game looks great but something tells me it is going to get low score. {{Unsigned|Drybones2}}
-== Trivia ==
+:Use [http://forum.mariowiki.com/ the forum] for statements like this, please. Talk pages are for discussion about the article, not the game itself. {{User:YellowYoshi398/sig}}
-I'm putting this up EARLY, cuz I see a horrible edit/flame war coming up between [[User:Garlic Man|Garlic Man]] and [[User:ForeverDaisy09|ForeverDaisy09]]. Talk it out here before you choose to start an edit war. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
+== Baby Luigi ==
+Is baby Luigi confirmed for this game, because he is in the list of playable characters. [[user:javier12345|Javier12345]]
+Yes, there were new screenshots that showed him. [[User:Fixitup]]
-== Size classes America-only? ==
+==Baby Mario Meadows==
+Can someone tell me what grounds the conjecture was made on?  If it's just personal opinion, it should be changed to something like, "Unnamed Farm Course". {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 01:30, 11 October 2007 (EDT)
-I checked the manual, and I checked the game, and they both use Light - Medium - Heavy for me. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 11:45, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
+Someone can tell me where did you find  Luigi circuit and Dk pass within reappearing courses? {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
+:Don't know how long ago you posted that, but I believe I found those in the first video, shown at e3 2007.  Sorry if I came across as rude, Coin. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:57, 30 October 2007 (EDT)
-No. The manual uses the weight-class system. But when I played the game and I unlockt a kart or bike, it said for example ''You have unlockt the Large kart Aero Glider''. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
+:Don't worry Stumpers, I saw the proof at some websites, altought they could be beta screens, who knows? the game is so far from being revealed {{User:Coincollector/sig}} keep with the work.
-:Read the title. My version, the European one, definitely uses weight classes, in manual and the unlock screens. I figure that the weight classes were changed to size classes in the American version, which was released later on. This would also explain why the manual uses weight classes nevertheless. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 17:35, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
-::Yes &ndash; on unlock screens it says "You unlocked a small size kart, the Blue Falcon". {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 17:49, 20 May 2008 (EDT)
-Please note, Cobold, that Arend is European. :| {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
+==Mario Circuit and the "Unnamed town"==
-:But from where in Europe? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:56, 21 May 2008 (EDT)
-I am Dutch (Nederlands). But in almost every Nintendo game (and all Mario games), there isn't Dutch language option. The game uses the English language. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
+Look closely at the pictures of Mario Circuit and the unnamed town. They are closely the same, which leads me to believe that the "unnamed town" is just anothe part of Mario Circuit. [[User:King Boo|King Boo, you're a Mario Kart Wii]]
-:Gotcha.  Thanks very much!  So what we might be looking at is that the English language versions use the big/little classes.  I wonder if just German version uses the classic system or if the French/Spanish/etc. versions do, too? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:10, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
-::My version says that I have unlocked the "Blue Falcon (Leicht)". The game uses Leicht, Mittel and Schwer, which definitely translate to Light, Middleweight and Heavy and not to size classes. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 14:26, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
-:::Don't worry, I wasn't doubting you! :) {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:46, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
-::::In the American Spanish version of the game, the karts are "Pequeños", "Medianos" and "Grandes", which means, "Small", "Medium" and "Large". And, anyway, the size of your Mii is decided by the size. I already make the experiment. (I'm latinamerican by the way. Sorry for the grammars horrors) --[[User:GinnyN|GinnyN]] 20:27, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
-If you change the language of the Wii, the language of the games change too (I don't know if it works on American Wii's). There are 3 language options (6 on PAL Wii's). English, French, Spanich, (German, Italian and Dutch). It's only possible to choose the Japanese language on JP Wii's. You can change language in the Wii option menu. {{User:Arend/Sig|You probably knew this information, but it's worth noticing.}}
+== About the old tracks in MKW... ==
-:Dutch is ''not'' an possible option, but Spanish is. Just noticed. {{User:Toad'ShyGuy/sig}}
-:Just a reminder, the standard vehicles have S, M, and L to tell the difference. {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 20:13, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
+Isn't there a link, a video, images or something where you can confirm the old tracks in the game or new tracks like Baby Luigi's track?
-==Staff Ghosts==
+Some old courses will appear, and as many of them have been  seen trough screenshots, someone can consider that all of former tracks will appear (or perhaps some known classic tracks seen in [[Mario Kart DS]]), however, we need more information to check it out.
-Shouldn't we make a table for the normal staff ghosts and the expert staff ghosts? The staff ghosts were listed in Mario Kart DS, I think we should list them here unless we list them on the courses' main articles. Is this a good idea? {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 21:37, 22 May 2008 (EDT)
+That baby luigi's course is a false info, who is putting that? {{User:Coincollector/sig}} I need a proof, and that is its source.
-:I think they fit best on this page. We should list the driver and time of the junior staff ghost, the unlock time for the expert staff ghost and the driver and the time of the expert staff ghost itself. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 13:17, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
-We should also list what kart/bike they use. The kart/bike that the staff use is different for the juniors and the experts, although the character stays the same. Also, I'm not quite sure how to find out the unlock time because usually you have to get about 5 seconds more (just an average), but none of it is exact. Should they be combined with the courses, or have their own section? {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 13:21, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
-:There should be a separate section for the ghosts. Also, some people [http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/942008/52407 at GameFAQs] (scroll far down) seem to have found the unlock times. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 15:42, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
-That's actually just the time they got. I did some of the ghosts with a time that wasn't as fast and I still unlocked the fast ghost. {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 18:49, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
-:I've actually already started work on a normal staff and expert staff table. The unlock times shouldn't be included because they aren't real times. Those are just the times the person who made the faq got. {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 20:55, 23 May 2008 (EDT)
-:Yeah, the unlock times on the faq aren't official or exact in any way. I got worse times on some courses, but still unlocked it. I think a table with the normal times and expert times, along with the character and bike/kart, and the driver's name would be sufficient.{{User:garlic Man/sig}}
-::Don't do unlock times, they are all subjective right now. It would take a poll of thousands of drivers (who actually remembered their unlock times) to narrow it down. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 10:59, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
-:::Well is there any indication that Nintendo will release exact unlock times?  A wiki is just a repository of knowledge.  And this is knowledge that people definitely want to know being that so many of the unlocks are tied to unlocking expert staff ghost.  In that sense it can be quantified that the times are not exact and any help on finding closer to exact times is welcomed.  Something like ''"These times have been found to unlock Expert Staff Ghost.  These times are not exact.  Those with slower unlock times are encouraged to submit them  to create a more accurate representation of the Expert Staff Ghost Unlock times."''  We could start with simply finding all the time on the different web pages and making sure those times are cross referenced with personal unlock times.  [[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 15:03, 18 August 2008 (EDT)
-===Staff Ghost Tables===
-:::I just finished the tables, but the section I made probably needs alot of editing {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 20:11, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
-::::Actually, not too much, good job overall :) {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 21:26, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
-:::Thank you :) Should the ghost mode on the Mario Kart Channel be added to the ghost section? {{User:EnPeached/sig}} 21:28, 24 May 2008 (EDT)
-== STOP! ==
+== Deleted Tracks ==
-Whoever deleted the Trivia Q I added shouldn't do it. It is TRUE!
+There were nearly twenty reappearing courses that were posted a few weeks ago, including Donut Plains 1 and Mario Circuit 1, but nearly half of them were deleted a few days later.  Does anyone know why?
-When you choose, say, Mario, in DD, he will do the EXACT SAME ANIMATION
-if you were to PUT THE CURSOR on top of Mario in Wii.
-After you choose another character and kart in DD,
-the animation Mario does will be, once again, EXACTLY THE SAME
-if you CHOOSE Mario in Wii.{{unsigned|Supernicknoboy428}}
-:But is that notable? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 16:07, 29 May 2008 (EDT)
-::I think it is. I saw it on the article, and went directly to DD to see if it was true, and it was! I thought it was kinda cool. {{user:Luigi001/sig}}
-:::I really don't think reused animations are notable except when they occur across two series.  Mario Party reuses animations all the time, for example. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 00:43, 30 June 2008 (EDT)
-== final screen ==
+{{User:Glitchman/sig2}}
-i found a pic of the fianl congratulations screen. should  i put it on the page?
+:I honestly have no idea, but it usually has to do with lack of proof when a game hasn't been released.  If you have proof that those courses are in there, please post it along with a re-post of the deleted articles.  Generally, if you've found something that wasn't in a mainstream source (IGN.com, Nintendo.com) you'll want to site it to save yourself a headache later. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 23:23, 6 December 2007 (EST)
-''<nowiki>(The following image is deleted upon request.)</nowiki>''
-[[Image:SPM Tiptron.png|50px]][[User:mrsdaisyluigi|mrsda]][[user talk:mrsdaisyluigi|isyluigi]][[Image:MP7ArtDuo.jpg|50px]]
+== Koopalings? ==
-I don't see why not. Of course, it may be considered a "spoiler"... {{User:Dodoman/sig}}
+Ok, a few weeks ago it said the Koopalings were in it, it also said that dry bones and daisy and goomba were in it? Who said that stuff!
-I would say to put it in the character section. -[[User:Moonshine|Moonshine]]
+Whom even put should show some soures but I think it might be a rumor. (Koopaling in Mario Kart wii I doubt it!)
+But there a chance for Daisy to appear and maybe Dry bones (Boo partner is Dry bones so maybe....) [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 16:27, 2 February 2008 (EST)
-Yeap, this image have better quality {{User:Birdoshi/sig}}
+== Release Date ==
-== Tournaments? ==
+is that releasing date on NA confirmed? {{User:Coincollector/sig}} it doesn't note a reference or source on it. maybe that's not true then... (by the way, wikipedia puts the releasing date as March 15 -although this neither shows a source or reference on it-).
-This question just rose in my head, but I couldn't help but wonder... Should we list the tournament challenges somewhere on the article? It's early, so we still have them all. In fact, only the third one started today, correct? {{User:Dodoman/sig}}
+On wikipedia they changed it back to April 30. I just checked (Is it true that the Mii is playable?) [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:59, 6 February 2008 (EST)
-No, the second one ended today, the next one will most likely start June 1st.
+== Shroom Ridge? ==
-And yes, they should be in the article, they're like the MKDS Missions, but online.
-To avoid confusion, they're called Competitions in Europe and Tournaments in the US. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
+OK, I've clicked on the link (reference 5, [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=169996]) and I think I've seen a track that looks like Shroom Bridge (middle picture in 2nd row of the screenshot gallery)! What do you think? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 04:24, 21 February 2008 (EST)
+== Duplicate Images ==
-Hello there!!!,please, how can I unlock the mirror mode?? {{User:Birdoshi/sig}}
+I see that we have some problems about duplicate images, specialley these images...
-The answer should be in the article, but strangely it says nothing about unlocking requirements for Mirror Mode. My guess would be to beat every cup in in 50cc, 100cc, and 150cc. Also, please do not ask questions like this on the talk page, the talk page is for discussing improvements for the attached article.{{User:Knife/sig}} 00:27, 31 May 2008 (EDT)
+The first row shows original pics already uploaded...
-:All gold cups in 50cc, 100cc and 150cc are required. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 13:02, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
+<gallery>
+Image:Lightning.jpg
+Image:NSMBBulletbill.jpg
+Image:Blooper.PNG
+Image:Star.PNG
+Image:Mushroom2.PNG
+</gallery>
-::That wrong: Only Winning or Stars in 150cc cups are needed.
+And the second row shows images recently uploaded for the MKwii article...
-::Long story: A few weeks ago I needed a second account (have more tha 30 mkw friends). In respect of both meanings I started with the 150cc cups (and do not touch 50cc and 100cc), take star ranks in all cups and as result the mirror was unlocked. I don't know if winning is enough but stars in all cups are enough. Because of the comment here I have not edited the article yet. -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 11:53, 11 August 2008 (EDT)
+<gallery>
-:::There is no reaction to my sentence above. Perhaps there are two methods to unlocks the mirror cups: 1) Win all other cups. 2) Get stars in all 150cc cups. At the moment the article is 	definitely wrong (or not complete) at this point. Any suggestions? -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 12:42, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
+Image:MKwii Star.jpg
-::::Isn't it something like Get 1st Place in all 150 cc Cups? Cause, most likely you don't get first place, you won't get a star ranking. {{User:Super-Yoshi/sig}}
+Image:Mushroommkwii.jpg
-:::::Star ranking is more than 1st place. So I don't know if 1st places in all 150cc cups are enough. That's my problem? -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 17:28, 28 August 2008 (EDT)
+Image:MKwii Thunderbolt.jpg
-::::::I have cleared my second account and made a test: First I won 7 150xx cups. In the eighth cup I take the third place: That's not enough to unlock the mirror cups. But after winning the eighth cup the mirror was unlocked. And these means: The mirror cups are unlocked by winning all 150cc cups. (see [http://wiimm.de/x/mkw-unlock-mirror-by-8-wins.jpg this picture]). I have won two cups with A and B ranking and this means that stars are not necessary. -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 06:03, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
+Image:MKwii Blooper.jpg
+Image:MKwii Bulletbill.jpg
+</gallery>
-There's a new tournament announced! Looking at the picture's (found here: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/rmcj/tournament/index.html), you have to collect coins on Coconut Mall. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
+Then, I suggest that some duplicate images must be deleted and others kept... {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-:Not only that, but karts only...grr, you really have to retry a VS Tournament a lot to get a no blue-shell, mushroom-aided time. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}}
-Another tournament announced! See link above for pictures and (Japanese) description. It seems to be a VS Race on Twilight House from DS. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-The Tournaments list needs to be moved.  A twice a month update is going to make the page very long and unwieldy.  Maybe a mention of that there are Tournaments and the list moved to either the bottom of the page.... or better make a sub (child) page. {{unsigned|Despyria}}
+:I suggest about deleting these images...
+*[[:Image:Lightning.jpg]]
+*[[:Image:MKwii Blooper.jpg]]
+*[[:Image:MKwii Bulletbill.jpg]]
+*[[:Image:Mushroommkwii.jpg]]
-==Unlock times==
+{{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-I have bought the Japanese Official guide book, and it is listed with precise unlock times for fast staff ghosts. So, I'm just making it clear that these arren't from some Gamer site, and it's official. I'll start adding them now. {{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
-Also, I have a concern about the tournaments section. Right now, it's relatively small with only 7 tournaments, but 2 per month means 24 per year. That section could get massive pretty quickly; Are we still going to keep each tournament the same size? {{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
+Here's my image policy.
+*1. If it's character art, use it only once on the same page.
+*2. If you find a good image, save it as PNG, NOT jpg.
+*3. Editing site logos out is easy and quick.
+*4. If an existing image is a different file type, and you have a better version, upload the better image and replace the previous one.
+*5. If item artwork is reused for a game, it is ok to display it, character artwork however, is not ok.
+*6. Even if a screenshot is GOOD it can be low-quality, therefore replace it if possible.
+[[User:Fixitup|Fixitup]]
-'''Discussion of my (Wiimm) last time changes (expert ghosts)'''
+:OK, but I think already did that. anyway, thanks for those points :) {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-* In one of my accounts the race time for sherbet land is 02:42.536 and the expert ghost is unlocked. And this means that the Nintendo Official Guide book ist wrong at this point. If you want I make some screen shoots later at home.
+::Please only delete the Mario Kart Wii ones.  The others are being used in one/two different articles.  If you do that, then you can put the image that is already on two articles into MKW, the third article.  It will be easier that way. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 21:18, 21 February 2008 (EST)
-* If you take a look at your account you can see that the expert ghost time of mario circuit 3 is 1:26.659 and not 1:29.670.
-[[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 01:13, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
-* Take a look at [http://wiimm.de/_etc/2008-08-13/1.jpg this picture] and you see that my time is the correct one. This can be proofed by everyone. And this means that the Nintendo Official Guide has at least one or perhaps more errors.
+:OK, OK don't worry, I already did this, I've decided keep some MKWii-titled images, because they have a good quality as they could stay here. besides, the deletion list is over there, before my second signature {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-* The [http://wiimm.de/_etc/2008-08-13/1.jpg next picture] shows the best time of my second account. And with this best time the expert and MII-B are unlocked. And this is an other error of the guide.
-[[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 11:53, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
+== New Wi-fi Information ==
-:Are there possibly differences between the European and the American versions? I remember using an American guide for the staff ghosts, and all the times were wrong. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 13:02, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
-::Yes it could be -- but i didn't belive it. 63 Nintendo ghosts have the same time but one is different? For Mario Circuit 3 it can be verified: An american guy may compare the time.
-::The unlock times is more complex. I collect here in Germany many records too find out the unlock times on an empiric way. 31 times are near by but always smaller than the times here. The differences are between 1 msec up to 1400 msec. 14 differences are smaller than 100 msec. This is a good sign for my empiric work. Only my sherbet time is greater and that time was verified by me. I think this is an error in the guide. --- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 17:47, 13 August 2008 (EDT)
-:::1.4 seconds isn't too bad. Feel free to edit any of the times if they are significantly off, like Sherbet Land. {{User:Wayoshi/sig}} 02:30, 14 August 2008 (EDT)
-::::I'm hearing a controversy about a American/PAL difference, but all of my times were from the Japanese official Nintendo guide book. o_0 {{User:Garlic Man/sig}}
-I'm adding two stats to the Staff Times.  Wii Wheel and Drift Type.  It is notable that though most of the starting staff ghosts (I am assuming) are Automatic Drift and the Expert are Manual, Nin*Tkym Fast Staff on Moo Moo Meadows does the course automatic drift.  I have to open a new license and get all the normal staff ghost to finish.
+http://www.nintendo.co.uk/NOE/en_GB/news/2007/going_global_with_mario_kart_wii__7448.html
-[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 20:00, 2 January 2009 (EST)
+Wi-fi information, including online rankings!{{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-== Unlockable Characters ==
+== sources ==
-Are you sure that we need 5,000 WFC Ghost Races (one of the alternatives) for unlocking Mii outfit B? This number is awful great! -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 09:04, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
+where are the sourses for the heavy weight, medium weight, lokced stuff? I think someone should put them on --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 09:06, 8 March 2008 (EST)
-:I have the Premiere Guide, and it says that its one of the unlockable alternatives. --[[User:Palkia47|Palkia47]] 09:35, 21 August 2008 (EDT)
-:: "5000 races" or "50 WFC Ghost Races" are plausible but "5,000 WFC Ghost Races" looks like an printing error. -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] 09:22, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
-:::I would think so, too, but it is the truth. --[[User:Palkia47|Palkia47]] 09:38, 22 August 2008 (EDT)
-::::I don't think that's excessive.  It is a lot harder to unlock all 32 fast ghost than a mere 50 Ghost Races.  Browser, Wario, or Rainbow alone could take 50 races to unlock the fast ghost.  I think it is an effort to force people doing the hard way and rewarding perserverance at the same time.  However a cheat on that is simply start a ghost race then quit it immediately.  However you would have to do that 5000 times, but I'm sure that this has occurred to other people than myself.  FYI I have the Outfit B by unlocking all Fast Ghost.[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 16:56, 29 August 2008 (EDT)
-The unlocking conditions for Mii Outfit B are as follows:
+Wait? I just saw in the playable characters, Baby Wario, Petey, Diddy Kong, Birdo, and others. Then when I refreshed the page...they were gone. Are they confirmed or not? [[user:Toad allstar|Toad allstar]]
+:This is stuff we should be citing for that reason: if real information is put up there that seems like fan speculation, someone's going to take it down.  Attach sources, everyone! ;) {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 15:54, 18 March 2008 (EDT)
-*'''Unlock''', not beat, all Expert Staff Ghosts.
+==Rosalina!==
-*'''Win''' 5,000 WFC Ghost Races
+I need a source or a pix to see if she really playable! [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 11:36, 15 March 2008 (EDT)
-*'''Play''', not necessarily win, 5,100 games, whether they be on Wi-Fi or not, whether they be races or battles.
-{{User:Knife/sig}} 14:17, 26 October 2008 (EDT)
+She is not confirmed to be playable, sorry. [[User:Toad allstar|Toad allstar]]
-== Character Bonuses ==
+== Noki ==
-From where was the information for Mario Kart Wii character stat bonuses obtained? The information is very unaccurate, and there is significantly more precise table of additional character stats which can be found on this page: http://www.gamefaqs.com/console/wii/file/942008/52716 For example, Dry Bowser's special stats are listed on the main article as being +2 for both Off road and Mini Turbo. However, the actual bonuses are +6 for both those stats... I've taken the liberty of changing all the stats listed on the main article to the more precise versions, if thats ok. {{unsigned|Churkirby}}
+What is this trash about noki? is this true, is she really in the game, i need sources! --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 19:26, 18 March 2008 (EDT)!
-== Cup Logos ==
+Doubt its true, BK. {{User:MegaMario9910/sig}}. Noki is kinda neglected...
-Shouldn't we add the 8 Cup Logos? Some cups, such as the Mushroom Cup, can just use the item picture, but other cups, like the Special Cup, have no such picture. Having the pictures in one place would be helpful. {{unsigned|StarBP}}
+== Birdo? ==
-==New Shortcut?==
+Is Birdo confirmed? I don't think so, because she's a lightweight in the article, although Yoshi's a middleweight. Could peolpe stop vandalizing the article? Can the article be protected, like Wikipedia? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:39, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
-[[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3Atw0v_hpQ|Click Click Here]]
-{{unsigned|Panther2598}}
-That wasnt much of a shortcut. -Rosalina1234
+Not handy if a normal user like me would adding something that is officially seen/confirmed. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-== You could improve this article ==
-I didn't mean this article is terrible, but there could be improvement to it. I noticed that you keep saying "kart" most of the time, instead of "vehicle". Where are the "bikes"? <font color="red">[[User:TheMarioMan|TheMarioMan]]</font> ([[User talk:TheMarioMan|T]]|[[Special:Contributions/TheMarioMan|C]]) 05:23, 7 June 2009 (EDT)
+Respuesta_ Pues claro que si va a salir Baby Birdo yo tengo varias imagenes donde se ven Mario,Luigi,etc y ademas se ven Daisy,Baby Birdo,Baby Yoshi,Birdo y Koppa Paratroppa pero no se como ponerles esas imagenes aqui en esta pagina y creanme que si son verdaderas please como las pongo
+:Por favor, dimos el URL a los pinturas. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:14, 19 March 2008 (EDT) (did that make sense?)
-I saw Petey, Paratroopa and Hammer Bro on the character select screen in a picture, Are they playable? [[User:LuigiFunkyandPetey6|Luigi, Funky and Petey, Heroes!!!]] 20:04, 1 August 2009 (EDT)
+Stumpers tu abla spanish?! [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:18, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
-No, they are not playable. The picture was probably fan art, or a hack(Not to mention paratroopa is in Double Dash, and the only time I have seen Hammer Bro playable is in Mario Party 8.). I have seen every character unlocked on the selection screen and they are not there. [[User:Toolsotrade|Toolsotrade]] 19:23, 10 May 2012 (EDT)Toolsotrade
+:O nos puedes dar er "link"/"url" del lugar de donde tienes esa foto. O nos puedes decir el sitio.
-:Actually they ''were'' playable characters in the [[Mario Kart Wii/Beta elements|beta version]]. &mdash; [[File:FortuneStBowser.png|35px|Bowser|link=Bowser]]'''''<small>[[Special:Contributions/Big Koopa|<span style="color:orange;">I'm</span>]] [[User:Big Koopa|<span style="color:red;">Big</span> <span style="color:green">Koopa</span>]] ([[User talk:Big Koopa|<span style="color:purple">Talk to me!</span>]]) [[File:MP9 Bowser Jr Artwork.png|35px|Bowser Jr.|link=Bowser Jr.]]</small>''''' 20:22, 10 May 2012 (EDT)
-== Petey Pirahna? Hammer Bro.? Paratroopa? ==
+:Ingles:English: Can't be protected yet. http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
+::Well, I have no idea what's going on.  Birdoshi just claimed to have a link (if my Spanish doesn't stink), but now I'm being asked to show the link.  What's going on? {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 19:37, 19 March 2008 (EDT)
-I was fooling around at the Spriters Resource And I was looking at the file selection Characters for Mario Kart Wii. It had Petey, Hammer Bro, and Paratroopa! I am not sure if this is custom! [[User: LuigiFunkyandPetey6|<span style="color:#006400">Luigi</span>]] [[User talk: LuigiFunkyandPetey6|<span style="color:#c87d32">Funky</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/LuigiFunkyandPetey6|<span style="color:red">And Petey!!</span>]]
+I have no idea what that spanish or whatever thing said, but I agree this should be protected. Which genius put Baby Birdo (WTF) Baby Yoshi (...) and Baby Luigi (Thats the only plausable one) in the section when there are NO SOURCES. Nor are there for the paratroopa, IIRC. I maybe wrong, so I'm asking BEFORE I make a possibly-contriversial edit. [[User:GreenKoopa|GreenKoopa]] - [[User talk:GreenKoopa|Comments or questions?]] · [[Image:Koopa.gif]]
-Not custom, I ripped it. They're beta icons. http://www.spriters-resource.com/other_systems/mkwii/sheet/23541 [[User:Girrrtacos|-Girrrtacos]]
+Answer     -hears if you do not understand the person to him who writes in Spanish because I recommend you that you see Dora the Explorer jaja and soon they say that those that speak in english they are very intelligent jajaja watches you cannot nor read what this in then Spanish who is the donkey the Spanish or your that you do not know what the one says because that I answer to him the Spanish is definitively the donkey your gringo
-But, what's up with paratroopa's???
+== Didddy :) ==
-It's like one of the MKDD beta icons.
+i saw the video that he was in nut how do you know he is medium wieght? ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>
-{{User:YoshiDaisyfan1/sig}}
+== 2 more tracks ==
-== Rearranging ==
+<nowiki>Insert non-formatted text here</nowiki>
-I have been thinking about rearranging some sections to improve flow and user friendliness.  In particular moving the vehicle graph closer to the Character Modifier chart (or other way around).  I was also thinking that the led into the vehicle graph is a little cluttered.  The vehicle type might be better served at the bottom of the graph to flow better between the character mod graph and the vehicle graph.  I would love some feedback on this and getting better linear flow through the whole article.  I would hate to start moving things just to have them moved several times to make the overall flow work better.
+other tracks
-It might be a sizable project, better to do it once than several times.--[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 01:15, 20 November 2009 (EST)
+Moomview Highway
-:I was looking at the page verses the manual pages and think I can arrange it in a better way.  I already moved vehicles and characters closer to each other.  I also plan on removing the item art from the artwork area adding that into items.  I think dropping course below vehicles, and items maybe above drivers gets it closer to the manual layout and makes more sense.--[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 12:05, 20 November 2009 (EST)
+http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=95123&page=1
-== Vehicle Type? ==
+Koopa Cape
-Ok I have looked at this several times and it seems so subjective to me, at the very least in it's current form.  The vehicle type should be quantifiable, and we should have the ability to add it to the chart and lose the example portion of the explanations.  But I can't source anything in particular on the vehicle types as they apply to MKW. So as it is that area is incomplete and subjectively unhelpful.
+http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185273
-I don't feel like I can make the determination which vehicle is which type.  Does anyone else feel up to it?  Should it be tagged as subjective until we get it sorted out?--[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 02:02, 20 November 2009 (EST)
+Above artcle confirms 18 characters
-:It results hard determinate the exact value for each kart's stat, and the better recurrent idea is putting in this way. Sure, maybe it seems sorta inaccurate, but it makes easy for now to identify the classification. {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
+Actully it confirms 18 ''unlockable'' charactors --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 13:55, 21 March 2008 (EDT)
-::I think I managed to change that a bit to be a tad better.  I might go through and add it to the graph if I think I have a firm handle on how it should shake out.  ATM the disclaimer that it is subjective should be enough for people to form their own conclusions.--[[User:Despyria|Despyria]] 12:02, 20 November 2009 (EST)
+In the link to Moomview Highway new versions of Bowser's Caslte and Rainbow Road are confirmed, which makes a total of 12 confirmed tracks. Also, I've seen Shroom Ridge on a screen shot (as retro track). I don't think there'll be 18 unlockables. But first I should read the article, lol. :) --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 20:08, 22 March 2008 (EDT)
-== Ending Screens ==
+The first link also confirmed the Special Cup and Moomview Highway, Bowser Castle and Rainbow Road are in it. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 12:08, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
-Just uploaded these.
-[[File:MKWEND.png|250px]]
+== 18 total charactors? ==
-[[File:MKWEND2.png|250px]]
+are there 30 total charactors or 18???{{unsigned|Blue Koop}}
-[[User:UhHuhAlrightDaisy|UhHuhAlrightDaisy]] 17:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
+, JeuxFrance showed a video showing the select screen and it had 5 ?'s, he had 13 characters (the 12 starting characters + Diddy Kong) thus confirming 18 characters/6 unlockables. {{unsigned|Freekhenstra}}
-: The only problem I see is this, why would you consider what you uploaded to be game artwork? I thought we mainly focus on what was released to the press in the respective sections. I'd have to take them out of the main article, but the pictures themselves can stay for further discussion for they still have a possible use for these parts (besides, you placed them here as well so that keeps them from getting them marked as "unused). --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 01:30, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
+== what ==
-::Another problem is that there is no Mii visible on the picture, only its shadow. Beside that, its not really an artwork but a rip, due to the missing Mii. It can be requested to take a screenshot with the standard Mii you will get from scratch in the Mii-channel.<br>{{User:Lakituthequick/sig}} 05:11, 27 July 2011 (EDT)
-==Faulty Link==
+The page is just missing and it said yes, my brother did it, i thought he was blocked --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 09:42, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
-The link for Bowser's Castle (under the Tracks section) goes to the page for [[Bowser's Castle|Bowser's actual castle]]. Shouldn't it go the the page for the [[Bowser Castle|Bowser Castle racecourse]] page? [[User:Mpeng|Mpeng]]|[[User Talk: Mpeng|Talk]]
+== Secret Characters? ==
-Or am I missing something? [[User:Mpeng|Mpeng]]|[[User Talk: Mpeng|Talk]]
+How do we know Daisy and Diddy will be in this game?
-== Rocket Start Explanation  ==
+{{User:Dry Bones/sig}}
-I recently made a minor edit describing how the rocket start can be performed. I have two things to say about it:
+well i saw them in a couple trailers, i don't have the sources though, someone else might
-. I'm not sure it's worded correctly, someone change it if it's wrong.
+but how do we know there weights? {{User:Blue Koop/sig}}
-. To anyone who reads this, I would recommend that someone look out for missed details like this and change them accordingly.
---ForeverForgotten
+Japanese Official Site, but if you don't have sources, I don't belive you, you may be lying..... But probaly not! Can you PLEASE try to find the sources.....
+{{User:Dry Bones/sig}}
-== Music ==
+I'll try ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>
-Don't you think moving the music things to the track they belong to would make more sense than just dropping them on this page? {{User| Why Bother}}
+http://media.wii.ign.com/media/949/949580/vids_1.html
-:I think it's done that way so people don't have to go to a specific article for a specific piece of music. The same thing was done with DK64 when I uploaded music from it. {{User:Mario4Ever/sig}} 22:53, 13 July 2011 (EDT)
-::Maybe, but shouldn't it also be in the specific course? Then again, if we did something like that, we'd probably also have to do the same with Super Mario Galaxy music. {{User| Why Bother}}
-== Drift-Type ==
+this might be one of them ''[[User:Blue Koop|<font color=navy>Blue</font color>]]''[[Image:Shell blue.PNG|35px]]''[[User Talk:Blue Koop|<font color=lightskyblue>Koop</font color>]]''<sup>[[Special:Contributions/Blue Koop|C]]</sup>
-In the vehicle chart, there's a "Drift-Type" column with ''In''/''Out'' as the possible values. What does this mean? This variable could use a bullet point explaining its definition like the other stats have in the list above the chart. Thanks.--FierceDeku
+Daisy is in the IGN Flower Cup video on the map (Youtube has low quality, go to IGN itself), and Diddy was seen in the character selection in a video of JeuxFrance. Don't have links. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-Re: It means what happens when you drift. "In" means you'll turn sharper and "Out" means you turn more loosely. All karts are outies.
+== Weight-class karts and bikes ==
-Most people already know what it is so theres no need to put a bullet point despite this being the only mario kart game to have vehicles that have a drift type of "In".
-[[File:Photo0058.jpg|150px]]
-[[User:Toolsotrade|Toolsoftehtrade. what do you need?]] 12:57, 9 June 2012 (EDT)Toolsotrade
+I've read on the GameFAQs Message Board of MKW that the karts and bikes will be divided into weight classes, that means everyone in the same weightclass shares his/her karts and bikes with the others of the same weight class. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 12:11, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
-== AI ==
-I recently made a change to trivia about the AI and how its known to be rubber band style,
+== Birdo y Toadette? ==
-which means the AI is extremely hard and often referred to as "cheating AI". If you think its necessary to keep and improve it, be free to do so and this information has been taken from wikipedia the free encyclopedia. Thank you for contributing. --mkwiicheatback
-:That is considered opinion and not fact so it shouldn't be on this article {{User|Raven Effect}}
-Re:No. MarioKartWii Cheatback found that from wikipedia. Go to wikipedia and read the entire freaking thing. Its there alright. --Wikipediacontenttaker
-Re:Hey. Looks like an arguement. If Raven Effect is right, then mkwiicheatback may have not used the exact words from wikipedia, or the said Rubber band AI effect maybe speculation posted on Wikipedia.
+Y donde quedaron Birdo y Toadette?
-WikipediaContentTaker maybe his sockpuppet, but the Rubberband effect speculation can be seen in the reception area on the article on wikipedia if you look closely. This is really all I can say about this "Speculation"(It is not an opinion though.) I really cant help any farther here but the administrators other than raven effect can negotiate to solve it.
+Al parecer se estan olvidando de ellas ya que no las pusieron como playable characters en :
-[[File:Photo0058.jpg|150px]]
+Mario & Sonic At The Olympic Games
+tambien en:
+Super Smash Bros Brawl, de hecho en este juego no salieron ni de assist trophies solamente salieron de simples trofeos que ni sirven para nada esos trofeos   -  nosotros queremos usarlas como playable characeters jugar con ellas pero no no las ponen y ahora me encuentro con que en Mario Kart Wii empiezas con 12 characters y solamente sacas otros 6 characeters esas son chingaderas y por si fuera poco no se han visto entre esos 6 characters la Birdo y la Toadette que son personajes clave en los juegos de Mario ya que ellas han salido en bastantes juegos de Mario y ya ahorita ellas deberian ser como Daisy que siempre la ponen bueno no es justo que solamente pongan a Daisy en Mario Kart Wii tambien queremos que pongan a Birdo y a Toadette  todas parejas para que asi esten  Peach   Daisy    Birdo    y   Toadette  las 4 juntas como deberia ser siempre en todos los juegos de Mario pero eso es lo que Nintendo no quiere entender   ya que hacen unos juegos bien divertidos y nosotros solamente estamos esperando a que salga el juego para comprarlo y jugarlo y luego con lo que salen  QUE NO PONEN A BIRDO Y TOADETTE  y luego la larga espera de que nos sirvio  de que nos sirvio estar  pensando en el juego de que como se jugaria y de como seria y luego para que te enteres de que no salen Birdo y Toadette o tu personaje favorito  en el dichoso juego pues logico que te enojas y te decepcionas una vez mas de Nintendo y acabas por no comprar el juego esa es la verdad
+Si van a hacer un juego haganlo bien y pongan a los personajes basicos que son  Mario  Luigi  Wario  Waluigi  Peach  Daisy  Yoshi  Birdo  Toad  Toadette  Boo  y  Dry Bones esos son los personajes que no deben faltar en cualquier juego de Mario ya que son muy importantes y cada uno de ellos y ellas tiene millones de fans asi que ahora espero que les haya quedaddo entendido que al no poner a un personaje decepcionan a millones de fans y se que solo es un detalle lo del personaje pero ese detalle determina si se venda mucho el juego o no ahora espero que reflexionen sobre esto y ahora si pongan a Birdo y a Todette en Mario Krt Wii ya que todavia se pueden agregar por que todavia no ha salido y si es por eso pueden retrasarlo unas semanas mas   total si  nos esperamos mucho tiempo en que saliera Super Smash Bros Brawl por que no podemos esperarnos unas semanas mas para jugar Mario Kart Wii total la espera tiene sus recompensas y no como otros juegos que por hacerlo rapido al final cuando lo estan jugando en sus casas dicen a etaria bien padre el juego si pasara esto o si saliera un personaje y asi se queda el juego asi que mejor hagan los juegos con calma y no se apresuren por que todos se pueden esperar un poco mas digo ahi tienen mas juegos con que entretenerse mientras esperan el juego nuevo.
-[[User:Toolsotrade|Toolsoftehtrade. what do you need?]] 15:55, 13 June 2012 (EDT)Toolsotrade
-==Stars, not asterisks!!==
+In English:
-The staff ghosts are listed with an asterisk replacing a star. This is common, however, Mario Kart 7's includes the stars. This can be fixed, and should be, its a featured article!! {{User:Baja/Sig}} 15:23, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
-Never mind, this has been fixed. {{User:Baja/Sig}} 15:26, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
+And where they were left Birdo and Toadette? Apparently they forget them since they did not put like playable characters in: Mario & Sonic AT The Olympic Games also in: Super Smash Bros Brawl, in fact in this game did not leave nor assist trophies only left simple trophies that nor are used for anything those trophies - we want to use them as playable characeters to play with them but does not put you and now I am whereupon in Mario Kart Wii you begin with 12 characters and only other 6 extractions characeters that are a stupidity and to top it all have not seen between those 6 characters the Birdo and the Toadette that is characters key in the games of Mario since they have left in enough games of Mario and or right now they must be like Daisy that always puts it good is not right that they only put to Daisy in Mario Kart Wii also we want that they put to Birdo and to Toadette all pairs so that they are Peach Daisy Birdo and Toadette the 4 meetings as it always must of being in all the games of Mario but that are what Nintendo does not want to understand since they match affluent amused and we are only hoping to that he leaves the game to buy it and to play it soon and with which they leave THAT THEY SOON DO NOT PUT To BIRDO and TOADETTE and the long delay as which serves to us as which it serves to us to be thinking about the game that as gambled and of like sera and soon so that you find out that Birdo and Toadette do not leave or your character favorite in the happy then then game you get angry and you are disappointed once again of Nintendo and you finish not buying the game that is the truth If they are going to match is necessary to make sure that this good and this complete one and put to characters that they cannot lack that they are Mario Luigi Wario Waluigi Peach Daisy Yoshi Birdo Toad Toadette Boo and Dry Bones those are characters that do not have to lack in any game of Mario since they are very important and each one of them and they has million of fans asi that now I hope that to them it has been understood that when not putting to to character they disappoint to million of fans and that single the one of character is a detail but that detail determines if much is sold the game or but now I hope that they reflect on this and now if they put to Birdo and to Todette in Mario Kart Wii since if it reaches the time to be able to add them so that it has not even left the game and if it is for that reason they can delay it weeks but total if we were expected long time in that Super Smash Bros Brawl left so that we cannot wait for weeks to us but to play Mario Kart total Wii the delay has his you compensate and not like other games that to make it in the end fast when they estan playing in its houses say that there was been or father the game if it passed this or if it left to character and asi the game is had left asi that better the games with calm do and they do not hurry so that all can be waited for a little but I say ahi have but games whereupon to entertain itself while they wait for the new game. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
+:Is this related to the article in any way? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 19:42, 23 March 2008 (EDT)
-==Nin★Ichiro = Ichiro Suzuki? SOLVED==
+Is not necessary that supporting characters (birdo, toadette, dry bones, or somebody else) don't have to get in the game, so, don't write something that, unless it's factible -{{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-Prior to the recent events, Ichiro Suzuki was on the Seattle Mariners (MLB). He was just traded to the Yankees, but I was reading up on the Wiki and discovered that none other than ''Nintendo'' is the primary owner of the Seattle Mariners! Also, if you pay attention to the credits in Mario Kart games, you see ''Ichiro Suzuki'' occasionally. Could this Ichiro be the baseball player?
-P.S. I tried looking this up on Google, but the recent trade made it difficult. {{User:Baja/Sig}} 15:32, 17 August 2012 (EDT)
-Edit: I just looked this up here: http://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Kart_DS/Staff#Item_Programming and discovered that it indeed is the very same Ichiro. Wow, I never knew that before!
+Respuesta:
+Para tu informacion Birdo y Toadette si son muy importantes en los juegos de Mario y no se a veces no las ponen yo no se se les olvidara ponerlas o que se yo pero si se que deberian ponerlas y las cosas que puse  son ciertas pero bueno ya no voy a poner cosas asi en la pagina de discusion de Mario Kart Wii que de hecho si puedo escribir eso por que es una pagina de discusion daaaa pero ya mejor ya no escribo eso para que te calles la boca coincollector y descanses tus lindos dedos de seguirme contestando ok {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
-Is this trying to help out the wiki or does it belong in mindless junk? {{user:New Super Yoshi/sig}}
+:Se bueno con Coinollector. No podemos agregar la informacion de que Birdo y Toadette estan en el juego asta que tengamos prueba. Tienes una prueba de que estan en el juego? Como una foto? http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
-== Letter and star rankings on GP? ==
-Some of the unlockables are to get a * ranking on a certain cups.  Does anyone know what gives you the particular rankings?  Should this article have a section on the rankings?
+Respuesta:
---Rosalina's stars 12:31, 26 September 2012 (EDT)
+La verdad no tengo ninguna imagen  que confirme a las 2 (Birdo y Toadette)en Mario Kart Wii, bueno tengo una imagen de Baby Birdo pero ya la pense y no creo que sea real aunque se ve muy bonilla la imagen y bien trabajada pero no creo que sea verdad y no se como poner un link o algo parecido para que la veas bueno el caso es que puse lo de Birdo y Toadette por que queria que ustedes le dijieran a las personas de Nintendo que estan trabajando en Mario Kart Wii que pusieran a Birdo y a Toadette como playable characters en Mario Kart Wii pues yo pense eso por toda la informacion que tienen en esta pagina (Super Mario Wiki) y todas las cosas acerca de los juegos, personajes, y como se supieron la informacion de personajes y todo eso de Super Smash Bros Brawl antes que la de Smash Bros Dojo! y toda es cierta pues pense : esta es una pagina buena y ha de tener alguna relacion con Nintendo porque como para tener toda esa informacion de Mario Kart Wii, Smash, Stadium Baseball, entre otros antes de que otra pagina entonces Nintendo les ha de dar la informacion,entonces puse lo de Birdo y Toadette por que queria que ustedes le dijieran a  Nintendo que pusieran a Birdo y a Toadette como playable characters en Mario Kart Wii  entonces Nintendo les pasa la informacion y la pagina es buena  o es como cualquier otra pagina y la informacion de donde la sacan que o que pasa aqui responde Paper Jorge
+{{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
-==Rosalina==
+Para tu información, toda la información que sacamos de esto es a partir de varias páginas web que hablan de esto. usamos ésas páginas de internet como fuente de información o referencias para desarrollar los artículos que hay en este wiki. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Ojalá que tuviéramos un vínculo o un acuerdo con la Nintendo, pero la verdad no tenemos nada que ver con respecto a la compañía.
-I unlocked her just by owning Super Mario Galaxy, i didn't win 50 races, i think i just got the game and she was unlocked due to my love for galaxy/ owning the game before getting mario kart wii.
+:Eso es cierto. Nintendo solo da la informacion por su pagina web o las revistas de Nintendo. Y Nintendo todavia no a confirmado ni a Baby Birdo, Birdo o a Toadette. No savemos si estan en el juego o no asi de que no podemos poner la informacion asta que estemos seguros. En que sitio esta la imagen de Baby Birdo? http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif<span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User:Paper Jorge|P]]'''aper '''Jorge'''</font></span><small> ( [[User talk:Paper Jorge|Talk]]<tt>&middot;</tt>[[Special:Contributions/Paper Jorge|Contributions]])
-can we remove "win 50 race", as it is false.[[Special:Contributions/86.148.182.78|86.148.182.78]] 14:57, 3 January 2013 (EST)
+<tt>&middot;</tt></small>http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/3473/linkswordmi2.gif
-:It's not supposed to be winning 50 races, you're supposed to simply do 50 races. I had a Super Mario Galaxy save file and I immediately didn't unlock her. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
-i didn't even play the game and i unlocked her. i just started the game and i unlocked her. thats all. no races done. [[Special:Contributions/86.148.182.78|86.148.182.78]] 14:57, 3 January 2013 (EST)
-:That's odd. I didn't unlock her automatically when I played. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
-Weird, well i suppose something weird happened to my game or Wii. [[Special:Contributions/86.148.182.78|86.148.182.78]] 14:57, 3 January 2013 (EST)
+Hey Paper Jorge ya te dije que la imagen de Baby Birdo la tengo yo en la carpeta mis imagenes por que la vi en un sitio y me gusto la imagen y le pulse al boton (Imp Pan) luego puse paint y le puse pegar y guarde la imagen   y el sitio donde estaba se me olvido como se llamaba pues como ese dia visite muchisimos sitios ya ni me acuerdo y luego ese dia borre el historial porque era un monton de paginas y era un revoltijo asi que borre el historial y nadams tengo la imagen y no tengo el link o algo parecido. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
-==Gallery==
-on the bike and kart articles they have images of the game which aren't on the gallery. I don't have an account (but act like i do) so i don't think i can add them. may someone sort this out? [[Special:Contributions/86.148.182.78|86.148.182.78]] 13:38, 4 January 2013 (EST)
-== A quastain ==
+::Dun talk Spanish, I don't understand anything. :( Anyway, from the translation: "characters that they cannot lack that they are Mario Luigi Wario Waluigi Peach Daisy Yoshi Birdo Toad Toadette Boo and Dry Bones those are characters that do not have to lack in any game of Mario since they are very important and each one of them and they has million of fans". Neither Bowser nor DK are included in this list, because the listed characters are the characters that appear in MP7. I don't think (though I hope) Toadette and Birdo are included and that fanon text doesn't make it more likely. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-Reference 4 shows in the items part error margin. What does that mean. {{unsigned|98.237.82.127}}
+::: Mira  PaperStriker se me olvido poner a Donkey Kong y a Bowser pero es obvio que tambien tienen muchos fans al igual que todos los personajes de Mario y respecto a que esos personajes solo aparecen en Mario Party 7 es una mentira muy grande ya que tambien salen en Mario Superstar Baseball,Mario Party 8, Super Mario Strikers Charged,Mario Super Stadium Bseball, Mario Kart Double Dash,y en fin en muchos otros mas y ojala y que Mario Kart Wii sea como Mario Kart Double Dash y que tenga todos los personajes de Mario Kart Double Dash mas Dry Bones y uno que otro nuevo y para que entiendas el español ponte a ver el programa de    Dora La Exploradora te aseguro que con ella y su amigo el chango aprenderas el idioma español aunque eso te va a llevar tiempo pero de todas formas te repito lo anterior en tu idioma el ingles. {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
-:You'll have to be more specific. Reference four is on the Bonuses and Vehicles section, not items.
+PaperStriker  sight I forget to me to put to Donkey Kong and Bowser but it is obvious that also they have many fans like all characters of single Mario and with respect to which those characters appear in Mario Party 7 is a very great lie since also they leave in Mario Superstar Baseball, Mario Party 8, Super Mario Strikers Charged, Super Mario Stadium Bseball, Mario Kart Double Dash, and in aim in many other but and desire that Mario Kart Wii is like Mario Kart Double Dash and that has all characters of Mario Kart Double Dash but Dry Bones and one that another new one and so that you understand the Spanish I recommend to see to you Dora the explorer.  I assure to you that with her and its friend the monkey you are going to learn the Spanish language although that is going to take time to you but in any case already I said to the answer in your language english to you.
+hey brother you are not created the one of Dora the Explorer single joked sorry {{unsigned|Birdoshi}}
-:{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 18:32, 16 January 2013 (EST)
+Um...? <_< I don't think I'll learn Spanish that quickly... But I speak German. :P {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-The right has items and one of the things there is error margin.what does that mean?
+== babe birdo ==
-Item possibilities it techinelly is what is error margin
+was baby birdo a fluke or april fools joke??? or what, there WAS a image of her. {{unsigned|Blue Koop}}
+:It's false, the image was altered as if she were another character... :| {{User:Coincollector/sig}} but looks like pretty real though.
-Can somebody answer?? 98.237.82.127
+Your wright, it does look real, but i read somewhere it was based off her mp8 look --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 21:27, 26 March 2008 (EDT)
-:The table is just an estimate. There are probably some errors made due to the estimation. {{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
-== Revert the names back to PAL ==
+==Koopa Cape and Daisy Pier==
-I don't understand! Please rename the karts back to the PAL versions, it makes it easier to know which is which.
+What do you think about this image?
-:Just think about it. If we renamed every kart to the PAL version, then Amercians could say "rename the karts back to the American version, it makes it easier to know which is which". Since there are more Americans visitors than English ones, we chose to name the karts (and every single other article in the wiki) after the north american name. It's the policy. {{User:Banon/sig}} 18:22, 31 March 2013 (EDT)
+Left one is from Koopa Cape, right one fron Daisy Pier (Daisy's circuit)
-:No, more versions have the PAL names. Unless the policy had no idea but to give out that stupid rule.
+Should we add some info. about them?
+[[Image:Mariokartwiipics.jpg]] {{unsigned|Amaral}}
-[[User: A Paragoomba and the Koopa Bros.|The fluttering fire Paragoomba]] 14:38, 6 April 2013 (EDT)
+Where did you find this? (and specially, those names) {{User:Coincollector/sig}} then, you can put here.
-:What's wrong with the names now? We provide BOTH PAL and American names for this article, so I don't see the problem here. And excuse me, if you're going to say, "that American rule is stupid", I'm just going to say that "renaming all the names to PAL" is a stupid move too.
+:Koopa Cape was confirmed above in a review (along with Moomview Highway, Bowser Castle and Rainbow Road). --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:01, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
-{{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 18:51, 6 April 2013 (EDT)
-== Default colors on info-boxes ==
+== Toadette ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|cancelled}}
-Lately I have saw a lot of kart articles that have the wrong default colors on the info-boxes, (like seeing Diddy Kong's Sugarscoot instead of Peach's, the latter has the default color) So we should be better when it comes to them.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|A Paragoomba and the Koopa Bros.}}<br>
+If you go to this site [http://www.jeux-france.com/news25597_mario-kart-wii-6-nouvelles-videos.html] and start playing the 2nd video you can see on 1:05 to 1:08 Toadette in the last place on the map. You can also see the Daisy and Koopa tracks and a Wiggler course in this video.
-'''Deadline''': 17th May 2013, 23:59
+{{User:Arend/Sig}}
-====Support====
+Are you sure that was Toadette??? {{User:Blue Koop/Sig}}
-#{{User|A Paragoomba and the Koopa Bros.}} Per proposal
-====Oppose====
+I'm very sure. Who do you think it is? I can't see an other character in it. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-====Comments====
+:OK, Toadette is confirmed. But are the others (like Birdo, Toadsworth, etc.) in the article confirmed, too? {{User:PaperStriker/sig}} (forgot to add my sig...)
-== Exact values for "Vehicle Stats" and "Driver Bonuses" ==
+== Shroom Ridge deleted? ==
-If you want more exact values, visit my (German) site:
+Um, who has deleted Shroom Ridge from the Retro track list? In citaion 8, 2nd picture, 2nd row in the gallery, you can see something that looks extremely similar to Shroom Ridge. It has the same street and the same walls, both are rather unique to this course, so it's clearly Shroom Ridge. Any comments? --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:18, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
-* [http://wiimm.de/wii/mkw/vehicle/ Vehicle Stats]
-* [http://wiimm.de/wii/mkw/driver/ Drive Bonuses]
-I have found the tables in the MKWii DVD and copied them to my website. Some values are multiplied by a factor to get more manageable values. For offroad I recommend the column O2 or O3.
-[[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] ([[User talk:Wiimm|talk]]) 16:00, 4 June 2013 (EDT)
+It was the new Mario Circuit. Not Shroom Ridge. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-== Help ==
+:OK, thanks. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-I know this isn't the right place for match-making races, but where can I go to do so? [[User:Chilex|Chilex]] ([[User talk:Chilex|talk]]) 00:16, 7 July 2013 (EDT)
+== References ==
-== Why removing item durations ==
+<s>I've put the link that confirms Moomview Highway, Bowsr Castle and Rainbow Road, but I don't know how to merge the references. They're all three seperate from each other at the bottom of the page (named [2], [3] and [4], lol). Can someone help me? :(</s> Never mind, have done it. :) --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 06:53, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
+:Aw, too bad I wasn't on when you needed help!  I just did that for the new ''Dr Mario.'' {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 17:13, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
-: See this diff: http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&diff=prev&oldid=1543890
+== ??? Desert ==
-: The item durations were removed and an old false info inserted again (Mega Mushroom is not invincible for Lightning Bolt).
-: Why? -- [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] ([[User talk:Wiimm|talk]]) 15:58, 31 August 2013 (EDT)
-::It was an anon edit, replace the info with the factual one. {{User|Yoshi876}}
-== Original Track, Arena, Driver and Vehicle Names in 10 languages/dialects ==
+are you sure thats not Yoshi Deasert from MKSC?? --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 11:45, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
-:See this: http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Track
+:No, because all retro tracks are confirmed in the link. BTW, if anyone wants me to translate that info, just ask. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:Is it interesting for this wiki?
+]]
-:All info are copied directly from internal MKWii files. I will do similar for driver and vehicles.
+i'd like you  to, you know translate it to english --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 14:51, 28 March 2008 (EDT)
-:[[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] ([[User talk:Wiimm|talk]]) 05:49, 10 September 2013 (EDT)
-:: And now in all 10 languages/dialects supported by Nintendo.
-:: [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] ([[User talk:Wiimm|talk]]) 17:34, 11 September 2013 (EDT)
-::: Last not least: [http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Drivers_%26_Vehicles Drivers and Vehicles]
-::: Inserting are the alternative names for Rosalina: Rosalinda, Harmonie and Estela.
-::: [[User:Wiimm|Wiimm]] ([[User talk:Wiimm|talk]]) 08:12, 15 September 2013 (EDT)
-== Hidden Levels? ==
+::Hmm, let's see:
+The new courses in detail
-I so on a website that in mariokart wii there are some hidden levels that go on forever that are inaccessible without hacking.
+That's only here: We have played Mario Kart Wii and present the MAN!AC-controlled track guide. How do the new circuits look like? Where are the meanest traps hidden, when should you best overtake the others and which course is especially short, really difficult or exceptional beautiful?
-Is theis true?
-http://www.cracked.com/article_20125_the-6-creepiest-glitches-in-famous-video-games-part-2_p2.html
+Mushroom Cup
-this is where i found it from. {{unsigned|60.242.2.211}}
-== Confusing wording? ==
+Luigi Circuit
-In the trivia section, one of the statements is: "Mario Kart Wii is the only game in the Mario Kart series where the weight classes have equal characters, if one does include the download play exclusive Shy Guy in Mario Kart DS."
+A typical "Mario Kart" introduction course: You drive short laps on the asphalt circuit between succulent grass. Long straightaways dominate the track. You can pass some drivers on the boost pads before the finish line.
-I don't understand what this means for two reasons. First, because I'm not sure what "equal characters" refers to. Some kind of character attribute besides weight? And second, because I would guess from the context that it should say "if one doesn't include" rather than "if one does include." I would reword the statement if I understood the intended meaning but I don't.
+Moo Moo Meadows
-{{unsigned|74.78.246.111}}
-== Trivia section ==
+-drivers know the peaceful farm-scenery, but the new track is better than the classic. You grab cool items at the big jump, then you should avoid the braking grass - and on the course tere are some moles.
-Some of the info seems really unnecesary like the Peach , Daisy and Rosalina thing . Maybe it should not be there at all? [[User:Swifite Muggle|Super Starbits]] ([[User talk:Swifite Muggle|talk]])
+Mushroom Gorge
-== New Methods to use WFC ==
+The first highlight: The colorful circuit surprises with great mushroom-jump passages, two branchings and a hairpin turn shortly before the finish line. Whoever falls into the pit at the trampoline mushrooms, loses the joining quickly.
-I think there should be a sentence talking about efforts to create a custom WFC server after the shutdown. Wiimmfi is a prime example of this. [[User:JoshTheGMan97|JoshTheGMan97]] ([[User talk:JoshTheGMan97|talk]]) 13:45, 27 October 2014 (EDT)
+Toad's Factory
-== Help? ==
+We liked especially this course at the test session: Many conveyor belts move you sideways, others brake or accelerate you. You'll rarely be squashed by the big crusher, you shouldn't miss the boost pads in any case.
-how do i edit the References? it looks Blank when i go into Edit Mode, all it says is "< Refrences />" without the spaces. [[User:Toad the Mushroom|Toad the Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Toad the Mushroom|talk]])
+Flower Cup
-i wanted to edit the "Country Flag" from Spriters Resource thing, as it says "Not Found" and it's in the References... [[User:Toad the Mushroom|Toad the Mushroom]] ([[User talk:Toad the Mushroom|talk]])
+Mario Circuit
-==Should we add information from data mining?==
+Directly after the start, the town drivethrough becomes narrow, avoid the wrangling at your best - then the simple course shouldn't be a problem for you. Either pass the Chain Chomp with a competent drift or just race away behind its back.
-In [https://supermariofiles.wordpress.com/2013/04/20/kartcharacter-stats-mkwii-edition/ this page] and in [http://www.gamefaqs.com/wii/942008-mario-kart-wii/faqs/64637 this page as well] there is information on Mario Kart Wii coming from data mining. Should it be added to this page? if yes, how should the new section be named?
+Coconut Mall
-== change it back ==
+This mall is crazy: You race for the victory on different levels - but choose the right escalators.
+After a monster jump and a 90° curve you turn to the mean finish straightaway - the cars there will stand several races on their heads.
-I think that the tables with the bonus stas. for the characters and the karts should be changed back to the way they were because it looks very confusing and I don't like the side scroll. So I think it should be changed back. {{User:Captain Toad/sig}} 09:33, 31 January 2016 (EST)
+DK Summit
-:The original tables are still there, in the proper sections, the new tables are in a different section (Actual stats). Regarding the side scroll, that shouldn't happen, as their width was specified in percentages. Has someone any formatting suggestion on how to avoid this? Is there the possibility of setting relative text size based on the display resolution?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:53, 31 January 2016 (EST)
-== Battle Course music ==
+Whoever liked the mountain rally from the Cube, will love the Summit. A cannon shoots you to to the top, then you drive into the valley. Stunts help you through the braking snow in the halfpipe, on the hump circuit you shouldn't miss the ski-jumps - you'll fall down more than once at the hairpin turn.
-The articles for all Wii battle courses should have their theme music included to improve their articles. [[User:TheUnknown67|-TheUnknown67]] ([[User talk:TheUnknown67|talk]]) 19:30, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
+Wario's Gold Mine
-Note: any replies should be replied to my talk page.
-:Sure, why not. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:38, 23 June 2016 (EDT)
-== 100% Completion ==
+Do you recognize this track? Here we had the first pictures of the game. You race over tops that would be good enough for a rollercoaster. The one who gets past the bats and waggons can beat everyone on the finish straightaway with a stunt-turbo.
-I completed the mirror cups without getting at least 1 star on all of them, as such I didn't unlock Rosalina. But I got the 100% thanks for playing picture, and the title screen changed to one of the character alone, this was my only save file on the game but the article stats you need to achieve 100% for these features to show.
+Star Cup
-Overall this has made me very confused <br> {{User:The Koopa Bro./sig}} 15:39, 13 February 2017 (EST)
-:This title screen should show up simply for beating Mirror Cups. So I guess that information can be changed if you will. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:40, 13 February 2017 (EST)
-::Gold rank not just playing all of them. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 15:51, 13 February 2017 (EST)
-== Getting star rank ==
+Daisy Circuit
-Um,I noticed that you can unlock characters by getting star rank in cups (like Bowser Jr. unlockable by getting stars in all retro 100cc cups). It doesn't say how to get star rank, can someone add that? -[[User|PinkYoshiFan]]
+Don't let you distract by the huge gold statues or beautiful sunsets, but concentrate on the mean zigzag curves - good drivers race almost straight here; but else it's an unspectacular course.
-:Currently Nobody Knows Precisely How To Get At Least One Star On Any Of The Mario Kart Games Other Than ''[[Mario Kart 8]]''. So Until Someone Finds That Out, No Info About That Will Be Put On There About How To Get A Star, Two Stars Or Triple Stars, For Completing A Grand Prix Cup.<br> {{User:The Koopa Bro./sig}} 12:07, 12 March 2017 (EDT)
-== The Koopalings ==
+Koopa Cape
-Uh,the Koopalings are in Mario Kart Wii. Wariopig,Master Of Disguise
+Welcome to the water-fun paradise: You race, or better raft down the mountain brook and master many jumps - careless drivers will be dragged along by the current at the end. You make a mega drift in the underwater pipe - the energy barriers don't pose a threat.
-:[[Mario Kart Wii#Drivers|No, they aren't]]. Just Bowser, and him in Jr. and Dry forms. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:45, 17 April 2017 (EDT)
-== Unlocking Rosalina ==
+Maple Treeway
-I have seen other websites that say you can get Rosalina by earning 1 star in each of the 100cc cups and unlocking 18 expert staff ghosts.  Is this true?  If so, we should add it to the article. -[[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] ([[User talk:YoshiFlutterJump|talk]]) 15:07, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
+This track is inspired by "Super Mario Galaxy". Race through the heap of leaves and let you be charm by fall-like colors. Be careful at the field with the two Wigglers and some narrow passages on tree trunks - whoever drifts competently and doesn't fall down, wins!
-:That's false. If that was true, then I would've unlocked her before I started the Mirror Cups. Rosalina can be unlocked earlier if you own a copy of Super Mario Galaxy though. <br> {{User:The Koopa Bro./sig}} 15:27, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
+Thundering Volcano
-::Speaking of which, is it possible to unlock Rosalina with SMG2?  Some websites say you can and others say you can't. -[[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] ([[User talk:YoshiFlutterJump|talk]]) 20:20, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
+Graphically the course isn't that impressing, but great drivers can prove their skills. Avoid the meteorites, curve around the hopping Lava baddies and get the right branching. Wanton drivers land in the fire lake and can forget the victory, though.
-::I doubt it, considering SMG2 was not released until after Mario Kart Wii. MKWii wouldn't know what to look for. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 20:21, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
-:::It can't. I have SMG2 and not the original, and it didn't unlock Rosalina. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 20:27, 30 April 2017 (EDT)
-== Battle Course Minimaps==
+Because we can't give out information about unlockable drivers and courses until the release termin at April 11th on instruction of Nintendo, you have to dispence with descriptions of the 4 new courses. But we really would have liked to explain how to get from the sandy ruins over the Highway and Rainbow Road to the Castle of the big baddie...
-I noticed that none of the battle courses from this game have any of their mini maps on their pages. I was wondering if I could add them so it would be more consistent with the other Mario Karts or if I should just leave them alone. {{User:LuigiMaster123/sig}} 21:22, 15 July 2017 (EDT)
-:Just add them if you can, I don't think there's a particular reason why they're missing.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 01:47, 16 July 2017 (EDT)
-::They're missing mostly because mini-maps are actually flattened 3D models, and you need SZS Modifier with the tracks extracted to view them. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 01:49, 16 July 2017 (EDT)
-== Recent change in terminology ==
+classic "Mario Kart"-tracks
-I would like to raise a major complaint with a recent change to the terminology made on this page regarding the way a kart drifts. From what I can tell, the reason said terminology was changed was because Nintendo's guidebook lists karts as being either "hang on" or "drift", which correlates to whether a kart of bike uses inside or outside drifting. I however do not think this is a particularly good reason to suddenly change the terminology, particularly without having a discussion on the matter first. The fact is, Nintendo has a history of poorly naming mechanics in their games, and as such their terms are sometimes rejected by the community. A good example of this is in the game "Super Smash Bros.", where what are referred to by 99% of the smash community as "tilts" are officially referred to by Nintendo as "strong attacks", despite most of them actually being rather weak attacks. In this case, "drift" and "hang on" do not even remotely describe the different ways in which some bikes drift that differs from the drifting of the other bikes and karts. Inside and outside drifting are the terms that have been used by the Mario Kart community for a very long time, while these "official" terms are so obscure that despite being a member of the Mario Kart community for quite some time, I (along with many other people) have never even heard of these terms prior to seeing them replace the former terms on this page. A quick Google search quickly reveals that these terms are, in fact, never used in the Mario Kart community outside of to simply state that those are technically the official terms. Furthermore the description provided on the article for what these different vehicle types mean is incredibly misleading, even implying that outside drifting vehicles are better than inside drifting ones (which is emphatically false).
+Here you get to know whether your favorite courses from "Super Mario Kart", "Mario Kart 64", "Mario Kart Super Circuit", "Mario Kart Double Dash!!" or "Mario Kart DS" are playable. The following courses are in "Mario Kart Wii":
-For these reasons listed above, I would like to request that the replacement of the widely excepted drifting terms with these new ones be strongly reconsidered, as alienating the Mario Kart community by listing terms that are never actually used or often even recognized by the community seems like a very bad idea to me. I understand that the page is semi-protected, so since I am not autoconfirmed I obviously am not capable of making any fixes to the currently poor descriptions of these new terms in the event that they are decided to be kept anyway. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 13:13, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Ghost Valley 2 (SNES)
-:There was a [[Talk:Bike#Create_the_Standard_bike_.28vehicle_class.29_and_Sport_bike_.28vehicle_class.29_pages_and_limit_the_use_of_the_unofficial_inside_drifting_and_outside_drifting_terms|proposal]] for changing the terminology. Also, we use official terms rather than popular, but community-made terms. As shown on the proposal, there are three different guides that show that these terms are unofficial. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 13:20, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::As a general rule that may be fine, but in the case that the official term is so obscure that few people even know it exists, I think that is rather foolish. What good is using official terminology when nobody knows what you are talking about? The purpose of a wiki first and foremost is to be informative, and being so remarkably out of touch with the community you are trying to inform will just end up confusing people rather than informing them, hence you have fundamentally failed as a wiki. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 14:06, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::So are we done here? [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 22:01, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::One other thing: Nintendo themselves aren't even consistent with regards to what they call it. In Mario Kart Wii they referred to it in the guidebook as "drift" and "hang on", but then they later changed their mind and now refer to bikes as being either regular or sports bikes. Since the official term in itself has a tendency to change, then surely that should be even more proof that using the official term is a bad idea, since there essentially is no official term to begin with. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 14:29, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::"''The purpose of a wiki first and foremost is to be informative''" We are. The original terms, as widely accepted as they are, were unofficial. If there is an official name that can be found, be it for terms, characters names, items, etc., we will use the official terms instead. They may not be commonly known now, but who knows? Maybe they will be, as you said yourself, the point of the wiki is to be informative. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:42, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::But again, these are not the official terms. Nintendo has since changed their minds on what the official terms are, and will likely change them again. There essentially is no official term, so why attempt to make something out of nothing? [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 14:44, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::Seems like everything is explained on the [[Talk:Bike#Should_articles_for_Standard_bikes_and_Sport_bikes_be_created.3F|bike talk page]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:46, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::I know I don't normally make an appearance on this wiki, but I thought I would drop by to throw my hat into the ring (as I was made aware of this situation through Trainer Alex): it is my firm belief that, if something in a game is referred to by, and is much better known by, a fan name, then that takes priority. It might be a side effect of me spending most of my time on the SmashWiki (as [[smashwiki:SmashWiki:SmashWiki is not official|that is one of the policies over there]]), but if we take a look at the [[smashwiki:Tech|tech]] mechanic, it is officially called a breakfall in Smash 64, an "ukemi" (受け身, lit. "passive") in Brawl (directly referred to as "passive" internally in Melee and Brawl), and "breaking your fall" in Smash 4. It's still named a tech over there because that is the commonly accepted term (little to no one would know what you're talking about if you called it an ukemi), and, if I'm quoting the page directly, "the word "tech" is borrowed from the competitive communities of other fighting games and traces its origin back to technical bonuses awarded in Capcom games for performing special maneuvers to escape grab attacks and get much less damage and more recovery time."
-::::::I know better than to complain about one wiki not following another wiki's policies; SmashWiki itself follows this rule too, and [[bulbapedia:User talk:Aidanzapunk|I've had little to no luck with complaining to other wikis in the past]]. But I still think that this name change is unnecessary, because, in the grand scheme of things, a colloquial term is better known than an official one if the two differ. [[Nintendo Switch|That's not to say people can't change the terms they use, however]]. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidanzapunk'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Aidanzapunk|talk]]) 16:56, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Mario Circuit 3 (SNES)
-:::::::I think there is an important clarification to be made: the ''inside drifting bikes'' do not really drift, they commit to the turn. I suspect that the unofficial ''inside drifting'' terminology was favored by the PRIMA guide of ''Mario Kart Wii'', which didn't make such a distinction and used the term ''drift'' with all the vehicles even though the actual official guide from Nintendo clearly stated that bikes such as the Bullet Bike are hang-on tpye, i.e. rather have the biker hanging off the bike (technique that is referred to in Japan with the term ''hang-on''). Having only the English terms from the Nintendo Official Guidebook, I didn't have much choice over which terms to use. Fast forward a few years and now the PRIMA guide of ''Mario Kart 8'' finally uses official English terms to distinguish between bike types - ''standard bikes'' and ''sport bikes''. This also reflects the bikes finally being a separate class recognizable in the vehicle customization screen. Since at this point we have North American terms which allow us to distinguish between vehicle types that were previously only differentiated in terms of gameplay, I proposed to use those instead. What is relevant, by the way, is that ''inside drifting'' cannot even fully apply to the sport bikes of ''Mario Kart 8'', since they now no longer make the sharp turn toward the inside of the turn as soon as they land like in ''Mario Kart Wii'', but rather go straight until they lean, at which point they start turning. While this collides with the concept of ''inside drifting'', since they too now go toward the outside of the turn for a few moments after landing, if you watch the animation, they ultimately still commit to the turn, meaning that they are indeed the same bike types introduced in ''Mario Kart Wii''. The developers simply used a more realistic physics engine to make them behave more like real life Moto GP bikes, leading to significantly different lines with respect to those seen in ''Mario Kart Wii'', this being most evident in U turns in 200cc, where using the same strategies of ''Mario Kart Wii'' takes the bike toward the outside of the turn. At this point, using unofficial terms that mostly fail to reflect what those bikes do seems misleading to me. I understand the importance of said terms and my proposal had this aspect separated to avoid forcing this change along with the creation of the pages, furthermore I actually kept those terms in the page of the [[bike]]s and in the pages of the subtypes, [[Standard bike (vehicle class)|standard bike]]s and [[Sport bike (vehicle class)|sport bike]]s. Nonetheless, at this point I think it would simply be better to consider the hang-on type/sport bikes as bikes that lean instead of drifting - this way what happens with them in ''Mario Kart 8'' finally makes sense.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 17:07, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::I mean, it's still considered drifting. They still use the "drift" stat, and other than not curving outwards, they behave like regular drifts (no speed loss, alterable angles without giving full angular control, mini turbo charges dependent on drift angle). Saying they "commit to the turn" implies that they're just turning, when what they are doing is very distinct from turning. Inside drifting is technically the most accurate term we have to describe it as well. As for the bikes in MK8, they kinda outside drift to begin with, before transitioning to an inside drift, so it's more of a hybrid of the two, hence I wouldn't recommend referring to them as inside drifting, but the inside bikes in MKW absolutely should be. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 17:39, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::The lines and behavior of a so called inside drifting bike has nothing to do with drifting, you can see how they are rather leaning while pointing forward when holding the jump button in Manual mode, which is not the case for outside drifting bikes, which rather point a direction almost orthogonal to where they are going. The sport bikes in Mario Kart 8 do the exact same, hence they should not deserve to be treated differently just because the community wrongly assumed that the behavior of ''Mario Kart Wii'' - always staying in the inside of the turn from the moment when they land - is the only corect one for this type of bikes, when it was likely an artifact of a less realistic physics engine back at the time. [http://www.21010.net/club/bn/wii/rmcj/pdf/p014_015.pdf Since Nintendo clearly distinguished between "drift" and "hang-on" from the start] and since in ''Mario Kart 8'' this inside drifting behavior is no longer here, but the leaning and pointing forward definitely is, we have proof that the developers were actually trying to do something different, that the community misinterpreted since back at the time the developers didn't bother changing the terms used and the North American guide didn't even use the "drift type" and "hang-on type". The community couldn't know that because most of them couldn't read the Japanese guide. But now we know what they were trying to do and ''Mario Kart 8'' showed that clearly, so I think we can start viewing things from a new point of view.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:59, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::SO, what is it you want to happen? Forgo the community approval to use these terms and ignore policy, or have another proposal to revert back to the fan-created terms? Either way, that's not how we do things here. I get SmashWiki has a different policy you're used to, but these terms are official and are used to distinguish between the different bike types. The only page I can think of where we credit an unofficial term is the [[Spiny Shell (blue)]] page, but even then, the fan term isn't what's used to define it. See also, [[MarioWiki:Naming]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:51, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::Actually, ''Blue Shell'' is an official term, [http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/26098/~/how-to-update-mario-kart-8-deluxe it was used in the version 1.3.0 patch notes of ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''].--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:59, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::Well, then. I guess we don't use fan terms at all. We use {{tem|conjectural}} terms, but that's different, as it means there no name to begin with. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:05, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::Yes, I am familiar with your stance on these things, and I strongly disagree with it. Frankly, I find this wiki's general contempt for the fanbase you are supposedly making this wiki for to be quite irritating and counterproductive, and is a big reason why I am not an editor on this wiki. That being said, if you wish to stick to your traditionalist policies, that's fine, but I would at least request that on this one instance you be a tad more lenient. The so called "official" terms you are using barely qualify as official at all, and are not used unironically anywhere other than on this wiki and in the original source (which incidentally is the only instance of these terms being used anyway). Meanwhile inside and outside drift is the widely recognized, agreed upon and used terminology for the different drift types of the karts in Mario Kart Wii, and hence I think that on this occasion you absolutely should use these unofficial terms over the abysmal attempt at an official term that you currently using. That's what I have to say on the matter, and I think you'd find that everyone in the MKW community who continue to enjoy playing the game would agree with me. If you still wish to reject this then I don't think there's anything I can say to change your mind. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 18:22, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::Hey, for what it's worth, I think Alex is right. What he's saying makes a lot of sense. [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 18:36, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::...Assuming you mean Trainer Alex (my name is Alex as well :P), what he's saying may make sense, but it goes against the policy we have in place. Nothing is going to happen unless there is major community support otherwise. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:39, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::Yes, I'm talking to Trainer Alex. Anyway, if it's a problem, why not just ask the community? Problem solved. [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 18:47, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Bowser's Castle (N64)
-my hot take in that the situation where a fan term is far better known than the obscure official equivalent, mentioning as an aside ("colloquially reffered to as [word]") is an acceptable thing to do to indicate that 1) yes, nerds use term X more often and it's probably what you should call it if you engage communication with said nerds and that 2) the Mariowiki willl neverthless let little stand in the way of its '''general contempt for the Mario fanbase'''.
+DK Jungle Parkway (N64)
-Some may argue slipperly slope but I don't see an apocalypse of people adding Le Unofficial Term to pages forthcoming and I don't really see an issue as long as the text makes it clear it's a Nerd Name and Doesn't Come from Nintendo's Anus. Whatever. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 19:09, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Mario Raceway (N64)
-:Where would that line be drawn, though? Would we add "Mario, colloquially referred to as "short, red, mustached man""? Yes, someone has actually said that to me. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:16, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::No it's a matter of context. Context is very important. Since essentially the entire MKW community refers to it by inside and outside drifting, and have never heard of these new terms, I think this is a situation in which an exception can be made to the policy. Similarly, very few people unironically call Mario "short, red, mustached man", and everyone knows him as Mario, so this would be an obvious case of when the policy absolutely should be upheld. Context matters! [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 19:22, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::Exactly. Hear us out, admins, and call us stupid, but we all think this could be a good and possibly beneficial idea. [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 19:31, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::I feel like there's a great confusion on this. Community-made terms are already used in this wiki. Both ''inside drifting'', ''inward drifting'', ''outside drifting'' and ''outward drifting'' are used in this wiki. The community term of ''Boost'' for Mini-Turbos in ''Super Mario Kart'' is mentioned as well in the [[Mini-Turbo]] page, even though the Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Super Mario Kart'' clearly named them ''Mini-turbo'' and the names of the exploits in the same page are those used by the community. I never meant to remove community-made terms altogether, but in this case I asked to rather limit their use to the relevant pages of the bikes since inward drifting bikes don't drift, making the term very confusing especially in the context of ''Mario Kart 8'' where even the ''inside'' part is wrong.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:45, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::You know what else is confusing? Calling Doki Doki Panic our Super Mario 2 because it's really nothing but a copied game. But they still call it #2, don't they? [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 20:02, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::That's completely irrelevant to this discussion. Anyway, [[Bike#Mario Kart Wii]] already has this information that's requested. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 20:08, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Sherbet Land (N64)
-"''Where would that line be drawn, though?''"
+Bowser Castle 3 (GBA)
-Short answer: You know it when you see it.
+Shy Guy Beach (GBA)
-To take an example I used with you earlier: If something happened tomorrow and that the protagonist of the ''Doom'' series of video games was playable in the next ''Smash Bros''. and that the lead didn't at least off-handely mention fans of the ''Doom'' games likes to call him Doomguy over his obscure and unpopular official names, it would be ''pretty stupid'' doing a disservice to the reader by not properly contextualising the character and making onlookers wonder why every source except this dumb Mario fansite call him Doomguy. On the other hand, if I got me and some guys to refer to ''Mario Kart Wii'' with the beautiful and multi-layered name of ''Mario Kart Pee'' it wouldn't be worth mentioning. Because nobody does that.
+DK Mountain (GC)
-So yeah, applying this to the matter at hand:
+Mario Circuit (GC)
-'''On one hand''': . Even if Mario Kart's Wii serious playerbase is sitll particularly active for a 10 years old game, the ten of thounsands (and I'm probably being ''very'' generous here) players that still actively discuss the game on forums and social medias and have developed their jargon to discuss the game is a tiny blip in the more than 37 million copies of the games sold. As the Super Mario Wiki generally leans toward a more generalist (or "normie" if you wean to be cute) coverage of the games, it could be argued that how a comparatively small number of players name The Thing That The Bike Does should matter little in how the wiki name its things. Furthermore, if the usage is so entrenched in said competitive's community, a fansite's usage of another term would do little to diminish its ability to enforce and disseminate its prefered term.
+Peach Beach (GC)
-'''On the other (and this what I'm leaning toward at the moment)''': One could also argue than anyone who specifically seek to read about ''Mario Kart Wii'' s gameplay mechanics in 2018 is going to come in contact with the more popular term, and furthermore, would probably do so in the goal of discussing the mechanic with otherp layers or writing about it. Using an aside statement to mention the fan jargon (while still using the official term in the rest of the body to respect Mariowiki's policies) would not diminish the wiki's house style while giving reader heads-up about how to discuss the game with their peer. Basically: '''context and audience matters'''.
+Waluigi Stadium (GC)
-I don't see a sliperry slope fallacy being ground against this, but I don't feel strongly about this particular instance either. --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 20:12, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
+Desert Hills (DS)
-:I just don't see this being a good idea at all. The closest we really come to fan created terms are conjectural articles, but that's because a name hasn't actually been found for something. Using a fan name for something that already has an established name just seems very unnecessary. IMO, I'd go with "Doomguy"'s unpopular official name over a fan name, because he actually has a name (sure, I don't know what it is because I don't play Doom, and this is my first time hearing "Doomguy", but that's beside the point). Popularity of the name shouldn't be the determining factor for how we name something, otherwise we'd have the ''[[Super Mario Bros. 3]]'' article labeled ''SMB3'' or ''Super Mario 3'', because those are just easier to say. [[MarioWiki:Naming|Nowhere on MarioWiki:Naming does it say we can use fan created terms outside of conjectural articles]]. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 20:26, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::Renaming ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' to an abbreviation is not the same case at all. I'm not going to sugarcoat this: that is a pretty piss poor comparison, though not as bad as "short, red, mustached man" and ''Mario 2''/''Yume Kōjō'' from above. I say that the aside thing that Glowsquid mentioned is really the best option; it keeps the wiki consistent in using official terms, but it also helps avoid confusion. [[User:PikaSamus|PikaSamus]] ([[User talk:PikaSamus|talk]]) 21:39, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::Are we done here? [[User:Inhaler|Inhaler]] ([[User talk:Inhaler|talk]]) 22:01, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::Nothing can really be done anyway until after the 28 days of the previous proposals are finished, at that point I can make a second proposal to add the "commonly referred to" statements to other pages, so we see the opinions on the matter.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:25, 5 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::"''Using a fan name for something that already has an established name just seems very unnecessary.''"
-:::::I again reiterate that this is not something to be applied to everything. Your argument towards Mario 3 is a good example (despite it not being relevant to bring up when you did): an acronym is something we wouldn't change because it's just a simpler way to refer to something longer (and thus would be made into a redirect), but if something is better known by a different name, then people will have better luck finding it by that name instead of the official one. Tripping in ''Smash'' is officially called "prat falling", but no one calls it that; Lucario and Charizard's Final Smashes are both officially called [[Mega Evolution]], but fans call them Mega Lucario and Mega Charizard X, respectively; if you want a non-Smash related comparison, the avatars from ''Fire Emblem Awakening''/''Fates'', officially, have no name, but they're commonly referred to by their default names, [[Robin]] and [[Corrin]], respectively. Even in real life, if someone is known by a nickname, you're more likely to know that person if someone mentions their nickname to you rather than their real name. [[User:Aidanzapunk|<span style="color: blue;">'''Aidanzapunk'''</span>]] ([[User talk:Aidanzapunk|talk]]) 15:55, 6 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::Again, the [[Bike]], [[standard bike (vehicle class)|standard bike]] and [[sport bike (vehicle class)|sport bike]] pages contain all the terms: ''inside drifting bike'' (which '''is not the term currently used''' by the competitive community, but rather by Reddit, GameXplain and this wiki), ''inward drifting bike'' ([https://forums.mkboards.com/threads/underused-lounge.25299/ which '''is the term currently used'''] [https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sR5iTjsbgKJO1eSmnoKqs2Iv4DeZ5v0orO_I9AJr5M/edit by the competitive community]), ''outside drifting bike'' (which '''is not currently used''' by the competitive community), ''outward drifting bike'' ([https://forums.mkboards.com/threads/underused-lounge.25299/ which '''is currently used'''] [https://docs.google.com/document/d/18sR5iTjsbgKJO1eSmnoKqs2Iv4DeZ5v0orO_I9AJr5M/edit by the competitive community]). Your point about searching the bike type doesn't really apply.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:34, 6 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::Aidanzapunk explains why [[Shell Helmet]] and [[Shellmet]] should be kept: They are called these by the SMM community. But, these names refer to two different things. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 09:42, 7 May 2018 (EDT)
-One thing that can be done without colliding with the current proposal is adding redirects: now if we search for [[inside drifting bike]], [[inward drifting bike]], [[inward-drifting bike]], [[outside drifting bike]], [[outward drifting bike]] and [[outward-drifting bike]] we are taken to the appropriate pages. Sorry that I didn't think about manually adding those by myself when I created the pages, I should have done so since those terms are mentioned in the introductions of the pages (while the variations ''inward-drifting'' and ''outawrd-drifting'' are effectively used by the competitive ''Mario Kart Wii'' community in the rules of tournaments).--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:50, 7 May 2018 (EDT)
+Peach Gardens (DS)
-So....why did they end up being made? From what I can see above, general consensus says these ''shouldn't'' be used even as redirects, because something about competitive communities needing to be held in contempt and not given credence when there's official names that are different. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:05, 11 May 2018 (EDT)
+Delfino Plaza (DS)
-:Those names are mentioned in the introductions of the pages, as this was part of the proposal, plus someone looking for the most common terms should find the pages that then show what are the official terms. One thing is having those names widely used on the Wiki - not agreed upon -, one thing is allowing people who look for the most common terms using the search function to find the correct pages, which then rather use the official terms.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 14:17, 12 May 2018 (EDT)
-::"Most common" doesn't mean "those solely used by ''some'' die-hard circles," though. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:23, 12 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::To be fair, variants of those terms are also used on Reddit and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3v8amOGKBs even GameXplain used the terms ''inside drifting'' and ''outside drifting'']. After all, only recently we discovered that those terms likely stemmed from the community and that in the Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Mario Kart Wii'' Nintendo had used alternative terms that showed how hanging off the bike was not considered drifting.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:26, 12 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::So? Reddit using a term that Nintendo doesn't makes it even less credible than Nintendo simply not using it, TBH, as it makes it even more fancruft-y. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:52, 12 May 2018 (EDT)
-:::::I wasn't talking about the origin of the terms, just how much they are used among the players' community. These terms were not found on the guides, so they most likely stem from the community of players who played ''Mario Kart Wii'' and are still widely in use nowadays - Reddit was just an example of a non-competitive community that nonetheless uses them, much like GameXplain is not a channel dedicated just to competitive players. In terms of content, this wiki switched to the official terms following my proposal, with the unofficial terms now being mentioned in the pages of the vehicles classes. Still, when it comes to searches, the users are more likely to use the unofficial terms, hence the redirects and the disambiguation page, whose aim is not adding or changing content on the pages of this wiki, but rather directing users to the pages they are looking for, which then use the official terms. The discussion above is about the introduction of the unofficial terms along with the official ones in other pages as well, such as this one, which is a matter of actual content in the pages. If you think we should extend the limitations of my proposal to the redirects, this would be a different discussion which likely warrants a different proposal as well to have actual effects, since even the current limitations find some people in disagreement.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:50, 13 May 2018 (EDT)
-::::::Wow, I was reading through this and you guys are incredibly out of touch with the Mario Kart Wii Community. Additionally, for the record "inside" and "inward" drifting are both used completely interchangeably by the community, so I don't know where you're getting your information from on that regard...
-::::::In any case I was wondering what the name of the guidebook that these new terms came from is, as I couldn't find them in the instruction booklet that comes with the game. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 08:09, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
+Yoshi Falls (DS)
-:::::::Looking back through the conversation, it looks like the ''Mario Kart 8'' Prima guide. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:01, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::If by "Mario Kart Wii Community" you mean the competitive ''Mario Kart Wii'' community, stating that people here are "incredibly out of touch" with it [https://forums.mkboards.com/threads/meet-the-boost-counter-mini-turbos-best-friend-since-1992.41626/ might be a bit inappropriate...]
-:::::::The guidebook we are referring to, which are referenced in the respective pages of the bike types, are [https://www.shogakukan.co.jp/books/09227127 the ''Nintendo Official Guidebook'' of ''Mario Kart Wii''], [http://www.21010.net/club/bn/wii/rmcj/pdf/p014_015.pdf page 14 and following]. In the case of ''Mario Kart 8'', we refer to the ''Mario Kart 8 Official Game Guide'' by PRIMA, page 28.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:48, 8 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::A better point would be that it doesn't matter how "in" or "out of touch" people are with that community, but that, due to them being little more than a fan group with no officiality whatsoever, it doesn't matter what nicknames they give things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:49, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::Except that it does. Since everyone uses the terms inside and outside drifting, newer players are going to just end up being confused by the poor attempt of this wiki at describing the different drift types. You act as though "drift" and "hang-on" are the official terms, but they're not. Some random employee at Nintendo decided to call them that at the time of the guidebook being written, but Nintendo have since changed their stance to classifying bikes as either standard or sports bikes, so if you wanted to actually use the official terms, at the very least you should change the vehicle type column categories to "Kart", "Bike" and "Sports Bike", as those are in fact the official terms. But even then, I would argue that this doesn't really explain the fundamental difference in how the two bike types drift (but it's leaps and bounds better than "drift" and "hang-on", especially since the hanging on animation is specific to the character, NOT the bike. Characters like King Boo who hang on to bikes when drifting will hang on regardless of if the bike is inside or outside drifting). [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 05:22, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::Pardon me, "everybody?" I certainly don't. Methinks this community may be smaller than you let on. Where are those terms used in any '''official''' writing? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 05:33, 9 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::For the umpteenth time, I am aware that they are not the "official" terms, but "Drift" and "Hang on" are not the official vehicle type terms either. The official terms are Kart, Bike and Sports Bike. [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 08:01, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::Expect that "drift" and "hang on" are still official terms, they're just obsolete since we got these new official terms. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 09:29, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::Or rather, they are still the official terms for MKW, while "Standard Bike" and "Sport Bike" are the ones for MK8. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 09:35, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::''Where'' in ''MKW'' material are they called that? In this kudzu of a conversation, I can't figure it out. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:05, 10 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::The terms are used in the Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Mario Kart Wii'', [http://www.21010.net/club/bn/wii/rmcj/pdf/p014_015.pdf page 14 and following]. In particular, the terms used are 「ドリフトタイプ」 and 「ハングオンタイプ」, that are English words written in Katakana, more specifically ''drift type'' and ''hang-on type''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:23, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::::OK, well until we have "salaryman" redirect to [[Businessman]] and "Heyho" redirect to [[Shy Guy]], this will be a ''very glaring'' exception to how we do things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:07, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::::The PRIMA guide of ''Mario Kart Wii'' doesn't distinguish between bike types, hence the official English words come from the official guide of Nintendo, which does distinguish between bike types. Also, there's no redirection at all, we use sport bike and standard bike links and we didn't make a redirection link for hang-on type and drift type.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:33, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::::::OK, well people keep telling me contradictory information on this, and like I said before, this conversation is unfollowable kudzu at this point. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:46, 11 June 2018 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::::::Wait, so those terms ''aren't'' even the official english terms, and they're just a (seemingly rather poor) translation of the Japanese text? Why then are they being used as if they're the official english terms? [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 15:36, 14 June 2018 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::::::::They are official English terms, just written with Japanese characters - Katakana. Not every English word in Japan is written with Latin script.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:51, 14 June 2018 (EDT)
-== Havok? ==
-Does this game run on the Havok engine like ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl?'' {{unsigned|69.127.38.51}}
+Gosh, that was much work... I'm not that perfect at English, so excuse me if it wasn't translated exactly, but I've tried my best. :D {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:As far as I know, this wasn't confirmed so far, and I doubt it, since neither the logo nor info about the use of that engine are found in the game. The game itself isn't using proper forces calculations to handle many gameplay-related cases, like collisions with walls or even just accelerating or drifts.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:44, 26 August 2018 (EDT)
-== Character Stats ==
+good job traslating this into english, but which language was first? reading the section, they describe the racecourses by their opininons. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} I want to know where did you find this.
-I watched a twitch live stream of a Tool Assisted Speedrun for Mario Kart Wii. In this specific stream, certain characters were compared for acceleration and mini-turbo. I have edited one of the charts to match the findings on this stream.
+:It was the link in the ??? Desert section and it was in German. :) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-https://www.twitch.tv/videos/344826135
-[[User:CobaltYoshi27|CobaltYoshi27]] ([[User talk:CobaltYoshi27|talk]]) 00:28, 5 December 2018 (EST)
+== Princess Rosalina!? ==
-:We don't base the data on videos, but on actual data found [http://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/DriverParam.bin here], as far as the characters are concerned. Heavy Mii was probably misattributed there before, as it's fixed on those tables as well. Thanks for telling us about the wrong stats!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 23:07, 5 December 2018 (EST)
-== Character-vehicle discrepancy ==
+An user put a link that one secret character viewed from the official nintendo magazine Italy, is coming from Super Mario Galaxy... ''Sua Splendidezza'' {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Will be Rosalina? I don't put anything of this if someone have considered that rosalina has been a recognizable character...
-I've noticed that the character showcased on the vehicles in the vehicle list for this page doesn't match up with the character showcased at the top of the individual vehicle pages. It's a small detail but I really think we should be consistant with which character-vehicle combination we primarily display. Is there any way we can come to an agreement on the characters which should be shown on each vehicle? [[User:Trainer Alex|Trainer Alex]] ([[User talk:Trainer Alex|talk]]) 16:35, 17 January 2019 (EST)
+* Here is the [http://brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14859 Link]
-== 2nd Best-selling Mario game ==
+:Rosalina, I think, because the bosses can't drive and Luma is unlikely. Bowser Jr. (if he counts) is even more likely, though. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
+::There's no reason to jump to conclusion about it being Rosalina.  It could very well be Kamella or even King Kaliente for that matter.  After all, Petey Piranha and King Boo were added after their boss appearances in Mario Sunshine, it'd make sense if the character from Mario Galaxy is a boss. [[User:UrsulaBoi|UrsulaBoi]] 15:34, 29 March 2008 (EDT)
+:::Yes, but imagine Major Burrows, Topmaniac or Bugaboom driving around. If the unlockable character ''appeared'' in SMG, it would be Bowser Jr.. If he or she ''debuted'' there, it would be Rosalina. --[[User:PaperStriker|PaperStriker]] 15:58, 29 March 2008 (EDT) Too lazy to add my sig. :P
-Shouldn't it be mentioned somewhere on the article that it's the second best selling game in the entire Mario franchise, because that's no small feat. {{unsigned|LukeMo}}
+Well, I never put that she will surely appear, however some user(s)are being brain-washed by false and speculative info, that might be false in the future. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} However, if it means ''Sua Spledidezza'', means to woman or girl - because, Bowser Jr. is not so splendid...
-:I need a source for that, but sure, it can be mentioned in the sales section. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 15:27, April 23, 2020 (EDT)
-== ALERT: Majority of character descriptions needs some major adjustments ASAP ==
-Relaying what Doc Von Schmeltwick said in his previous edits before mine in terms of the character descriptions when someone put in the tables for this article, but the majority of them in [https://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Kart_Wii#Drivers  this section] need some serious adjustments and look like there were "personal opinions" put into them as well. I tried to fix the ones involving the Mario female characters (and some others), but the rest of them seriously need to be checked into ASAP. Anyone else looking into this? --M. C. - [[User:MeritC|Profile]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 08:40, July 11, 2020 (EDT)
-:I don't see why we need descriptions at all, honestly. The only other main series Mario Kart game where we have character descriptions at all is Mario Kart DS, the rest of them just have galleries with extra relevant information like their weight class. Either the descriptions on this page (and on MKDS', for that matter) should be replaced with official descriptions if we can find them, or removed entirely for consistency with the rest of the series. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:12, July 11, 2020 (EDT)
-:Looks like the "flowery writing" in the respective section has now been neutralized for the most part by myself and some other people, so this "talk" status and the "rewrite" status for the section has been taken off now. --M. C. - [[User:MeritC|Profile]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 06:19, July 12, 2020 (EDT)
-::I wouldn't say the conversation is quite over yet since I brought up the possibility of removing the bios entirely. I'd like to see what other users have to say about the idea. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:35, July 12, 2020 (EDT)
-:::Meh, I'm not really for bios either since we'll get disputes over interpretations of the character like what happened above. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:29, October 10, 2020 (EDT)
-==Nintendo Wifi==
+I have readed on a web-page that a Dutch magazine N-Gamer said ''A girl with twinkle eyes'' will be playble.
-The article says that you cannot play MKWii online due to the termination of Nintendo Online. This may not be true. By downloading the mod CTGP Revolution, you can play on a custom server called Wiimmfi. We should put ont this artocle that you cannot play online anymore officially, and that there are hacks that would still allow online play.
+It looks to me like Roslalina, but again, it's not sure if this is true. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-[[User:CoolSwitch|CoolSwitch]] ([[User talk:CoolSwitch|talk]]) 11:05, August 14, 2020 (EDT)
+:@Coincollector: I don't speak Italian, so I couldn't know... And if the character is female, then it's either Rosalina (very likely), a female Luma (very unlikey) or Kamella (also very unlikely). {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:We don't cover unofficial material in main articles. As far as Nintendo-endorsed services go, you cannot play this game online. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:18, August 14, 2020 (EDT)
+::It's still speculation, we can't put most-likeliness as a source. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 09:51, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
+::: I can understand (a bit) of some italian words, because they have certain similarities with my language. therefore, that therm could tell about a woman. --{{User:Coincollector/sig}} 13:17, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
-== Add a Reference ==
+It could be Queen Bee, but it's most likely Rosalina. But you never know, I live in the Netherlands and some magazine's here search on the internet for information, find a fake roster and use it. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-In the Bowser's Castle Track, part of the Majora's Mask song plays. I don't see that reference. {{unsigned|Daybroken}}
+I think some user vandal Rosalina page because a user post that she is playable but this is uncomfirmed. Should I remove this info untill we receive a trustful soucre or a offical artwork? [[User:Princess Grapes Butterfly|Princess Grapes Butterfly]] 19:56, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
-:First, it's not an explicit reference, I never heard it. Second, [[MarioWiki:References|references to other games sections should be Mario only]]. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 14:28, October 10, 2020 (EDT)
-== Could anybody add this "Reference to other games" entry? ==
+== Post-Release To-Do List ==
-Some of the HUD bubble graphics from Pikmin were reused in this game. For example, the squared bubble [https://www.nintenderos.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/pikmin-2.png here] is used for the "Back" button in many of MKWii's menus. Also, the bubble that indicates the day is used in the Main Menu, covering the Miis face ([https://www.wikihow.com/images_en/thumb/0/03/Unlock-Baby-Luigi-on-Mario-Kart-Wii-Step-1-Version-3.jpg/v4-460px-Unlock-Baby-Luigi-on-Mario-Kart-Wii-Step-1-Version-3.jpg.webp main menu screenshot], it's more apparent when ripping the icon from the files). For comparison: [https://www.spriters-resource.com/fullview/46321/ Pikmin sprites]
+This game launches very soon.  Please post obscure stuff that should be done when the game is released here. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 18:40, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
+#Delete [http://www.mariowiki.com/Image:Toadetemkwii.png this image], as secret characters only need reference until the game has been released. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 18:40, 30 March 2008 (EDT)
-I can't edit the page myself (''This page has been protected to prevent editing or other actions'')--[[User:B squo|B squo]] ([[User talk:B squo|talk]]) 16:02, April 23, 2021 (EDT)
+::Your request's done -{{User:Coincollector/sig}} I think I'll wait for the game too for substantious info.
-:These are only really coincidences, quite a few games use similar shapes in their menu graphics. It's not something that is entirely based on Pikmin, and the graphics aren't really one-for-one to each other either. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:08, April 23, 2021 (EDT)
-== Some things that could be added to the "Differences in multiplayer modes" section ==
+Missions, how you unlock stuff, karts & motorcycles and course maps. I'm gonna get it April 10th. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-Here are a few things that I think could be added to the "Differences in multiplayer modes" section:
+Bedoel je niet 11 april? Het spel komt op die datum in Nederland. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-* Wheelies do not emit sound.
-* The graphical effect for miniturbos and also the fire seen when boosting are slightly different (they look a bit simpler)
-(The following ones are a bit more specific):
+Weet ik, maar hier ontvangen ze spellen op woensdag en zetten ze het in de winkel op donderdag, dus 10 april {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-* In Mario Circuit, some 3D flowers are located in different positions, such as the one seen [https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/798220173454082068/843646504475557918/3.png here]. In addition, one of the 3D trees (seen to the left a little bit after the finish line) is positioned slightly more to the left (so it's not centered relative to its shadow). All of these are actually leftover from an earlier version of the track, since these objects could be seen in those positions in the E3 2007 trailer of the game.
+== 18 or 24? ==
-* Although this is a little bit more trivial, [https://twitter.com/B_squo/status/1410199051417628673 in Mario Circuit, some 2D trees are merged with 3D trees] (though this is hard to see in-game without the use of a free camera). {{unsigned|B squo}}
-== Rosalina help. ==
+When I saw a video at JeuxFrance the character select screen had 18 characters (13 characters (Starting + Diddy) and 5 ?'s).
+The first six are light weights, the middle six are middle and weights the last six are heavy weights.
+I thought it confirmed 18 characters, but now some say it's 24.
+If it is true that there are 18 characters, There's only one unconfirmed and that's a heavy weight (I don't count Rosalina).
+So if Rosalina is confirmed and there are 18 characters, she must be a heavy weight (which she is most likely not).
+What I'm trying to say is if there are 18 characters, Rosalina is very likely not playable. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-Okay, I'm confused. On the MKWii page, it says that Rosalina's standard unlock criteria is to rank 1 star or higher in all Mirror Cups. OK, simple enough, right? NO! The alternate criteria is to play 4,950 races (too much for me, good thing she is unlocked from the start in MK8DX) OR play 50 races with a SMG save file. 50 is much more manageable, but on this talk page there's an implication that she can be unlocked with just a SMG save file. What's the deal!? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 13:20, February 27, 2023 (CST)
+There are 24 (excluding Mii) because Nintendo confirmed it in a Japanese trailer. If you have not unlocked anything you will see no ?'s. If you unlock more, more ?'s will appear. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-:It's not automatic. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:47, February 27, 2023 (EST)
+:Yeah, I'd not trust the ?'s, Super Smash Bros. Melee also had more unlockable characters than ?'s on the screen. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 10:26, 31 March 2008 (EDT)
-::UPDATE! Wikihow makes things even more crazy. Wikihow states the same things that this very wiki says. However, there are additional "ways" to unlock Rosalina. Get at least 1 Star Rank for all Mirror Grand Prix Cups, play 4,950 games, or get at least 1 Star Rank for all 150cc Wii Grand Prix cups and beat 18 Staff Ghosts. HUH!? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 12:47, March 16, 2023 (CST)
-:::This is kind of a late response, but is Wikihow a wiki with trusted sorces? Because I think what it says on the page about Rosalina's unlock criteria right now is correct. Having ''five'' ways to unlock Rosalina, as Wikihow says, is kind of a lot. -- {{User:FanOfRosalina2007/sig}} 18:38, December 4, 2023 (EST)
-== Small correction regarding Expert Staff Ghost unlock times ==
+What trailer? EDIT: I found it :) {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-The unlock times for the expert GCN Waluigi Stadium and N64 Sherbet Land staff ghosts are slightly incorrect. The correct times are 02:26.334 and 02:43.142 respectively.
-([https://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Talk:Filesystem/rel/StaticR.rel see the Expert staff ghost unlock times section at the bottom of this page for more information]).
---[[User:B squo|B squo]] ([[User talk:B squo|talk]]) 13:20, July 29, 2023 (EDT)
-== The Question ==
+== Track order + Yoshi Desert ==
-Okay, so tell me. Where am I suppose to put this? (Peach, Daisy, and Rosalina wear jumpsuits if riding a bike, as it would be difficult to ride a bike while wearing a dress like when they are driving karts without having their trains (loose, hanging parts forming the backs of their skirts) getting caught in the wheels.) --[[User:SMBros|SMBros]] ([[User talk:SMBros|talk]]) 21:20, May 21, 2024 (EDT)
-:I feel it's best to let information speak for itself, especially when Mushroom Kingdom operates on Mario logic where heavier racers are inexplicably faster than light ones. {{User:Mario/sig}} 23:05, May 21, 2024 (EDT)
-== Alternate box art ==
+In [http://brawlcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=14859&st=0&sk=t&sd=a this link] someone posted the (speculative) track order and the name of the desert. Since "content of speculative nature is allowed" (see the template on the top of the page), I'd suggest we'd add that order of tracks. There's also a (again, speculative) character roster. What do '''you''' think? Should we add that info? {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-My own copy of Mario Kart Wii has box art without the Wii Wheel in the background. Has this been documented anywhere? [[Special:Contributions/24.74.178.69|24.74.178.69]] 00:34, May 25, 2024 (EDT)
+)I think you can add the track order and/or name. We can always change names of tracks and track orders if we find more info about it. The name of the track Maple Treeway isn't also confirmed, but it sounds and looks like it is the real name.
+)Can't we make a ''suspected characters'' section on this page?
+{{User:Arend/Sig}}
-== Course template ==
+:1) OK, I've added it.
-Personally, I prefer the old revision. It looks more in-line with the rest on the page, it includes the course banner when the other one doesn't, and the staff ghost information is more readable. I'd argue to remove the internal course names since there already is a clear in-game name and that information isn't relevant for the casual reader, but I do like this layout better. {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 15:50, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
+:2) I think this would be a good idea, since many people keep adding fake characters to the character section. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:For the record, I removed the banners because one image of the course seemed sufficient (and only so much space on the table, so something had to give). In my opinion, the biggest problems with the old revision are 1. it's too big and takes up way more space than it needs to, I can't even fit two courses' worth of information on my screen at once, 2. the layout is confusing, tables should read from left to right and use one row per subject (tables are very frequently misused and abused elsewhere on the wiki, but that's beside the point), and 3. a lot of the staff ghost information is obfuscated by images with no accompanying text, which is very bad for accessibility. I'm open to suggestions for how to make these better, and to be honest I'd be totally fine if the consensus is to just revert everything back to how it was before with a simple course listing and separate table of staff ghosts. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:34, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::The main issue with the separate list of staff ghosts was it was hard to keep rows straight while navigating it (and honestly it makes more sense to list them by course than by type, since that becomes an irrelevant comparison due to how different the tracks are). I attempted to use it while trying to finish unlocking everything and ran into repeated trouble where I couldn't keep track of the proper times (since of course I had to look away to see the game running), because the rows blurred together that easily (and with the column names all the way at the top, made it hard to tell which time was which when looking at the bottom). Row blur is already a big issue I've had a lot, for instance clicking the wrong thing on the recent changes list happening a good tenth of the time, but with tables like that it becomes much worse. By putting them firmly into different "squares" for each course, that issue becomes nonexistent, and the proper information can be gleaned at a mere glance. (For what it's worth, I wanted to use the course previews instead of the screenshots, which would have made for shorter squares, but that would have been a massive amount of data to load at once. In the current revision, the screenshots are so small they might as well not be there for how difficult it is to see what they show, and they cause vertical bloat on the other rows.) As for using unlabeled icons, that's a reflection on how the game itself lists time trial records - it uses pictures with no text for that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:43, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::I personally think the tables throughout the page would benefit from retooling. I do not enjoy browsing articles with these types of tables, and I have noticed them pop up more often for other ''Mario Kart'' and ''Mario Sports'' articles.
-:::Doc, I have tremendous respect for the amount of work you have personally done on the wiki. However, if I was executing changes on how and what information is presented on the site that others took issue with, especially on pages as important as the game articles, I would hope someone would respect me enough to let me know and provide ways to improve what I wanted to do. I personally find the tables integrated into the ''Mario Sports'' and ''Mario Kart'' articles poor and harm the pages. I will provide specifics:
-:::#A single column on any of these tables does not fit on my laptop screen by default. I am required to scroll just to read all the information about a single character, which might be understandable if the table contained a lot of useful information, but, at present, there is minimal information here that could more effectively be condensed together. Instead, it is splayed far apart without apparent cause.
-:::#The visual assets on display are redundant, and this makes the tables look messy because the same information is being conveyed in multiple different ways all at once. This is especially true for course tables, like the one on [[Mario Kart: Double Dash!!#Grand Prix|''Mario Kart: Double Dash!!'' courses]], which displays the in-game title asset, the course icon, and the course map. It's all large and distracting. If one were to use in-game assets for things like courses, I would commit to only one of these, and I would scrutinize why adjusting the size of sprites for the sake of the table and conveying information is "inherently a bad thing". Referring to something as such does not make it so. For character and kart tables, I would not include both artwork and sprite icons because they both achieve the same thing: conveying to readers what the character looks like. But even in committing to one, the artwork is distractingly enormous, and without clear benefit.
-:::#I learn very little about characters, karts, and courses in these tables, which makes the use of them unclear. Again, as apparent on the ''Double Dash!!'' article, all of those visual assets tell me nothing about what these courses are actually like. Personally, when I read an article, there should be material to actually read. If I was only interested in visual assets and artwork, I would see the game's gallery.
-:::Maybe I am the only one who feels this way about these tables. Maybe I am being overly nitpicky. I am sure all of the elements of these tables were put together thoughtfully in a way that makes sense to you, and I know you could justify and explain each of them. However, I think one of the real benefits of using tables is to standardize and present information in an intuitively helpful way, and if the major components of the table are inherently perceived as cumbersome and needless to the point that I just scroll over these tables when viewing these articles, I think it would be a good idea for them to be changed. I personally would recommend the integration of more conventional wikitables. Sometimes simple is better. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:51, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::"As for using unlabeled icons, that's a reflection on how the game itself lists time trial records - it uses pictures with no text for that." Game UI design =/= wiki organization. I've seen this happen elsewhere on the wiki and the sooner we stop trying to mimic it the better. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:01, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Funnily enough, that's exactly how the wiki's handled the "internal statistics" tables for years now (such as on the MK7 and MK8 pages), I was primarily imitating that. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:10, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I think Doc's tables should stay, but on the condition that there's a way to completely adjust how the table looks depending on the screen size, since they appear to be designed with mobile users in mind. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:05, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
+::BTW, Maple Treeway's name is confirmed [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=185351 here]. {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:::::They are intended to do just that; they have two columns for wider screens and one for thinner screens. It's easier to tell with the character and vehicle tables, since more fit in those. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:09, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::Having spoken with several users about this before making the changes I can confirm that the old revision doesn't work well on mobile. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:09, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::I find Doc's tables kind of cumbersome to use on mobile devices too :/ - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:11, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::It's not the inherent fault of the wikitables. If someone reports display issues with the article on their device, it means the wikitables could be further optimized until it meets a satisfactory standard on all devices. [[User:Super Mario RPG|Super Mario RPG]] ([[User talk:Super Mario RPG|talk]]) 17:17, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::I personally do not really think they look good regardless though. I would rather we return to something like the previous tables mentioned by Arend below, or revised ones built on similar principals. Though again, I could be in the minority. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:22, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::Funny thing, I was heavily inspired by your re-examination of games and their tables. By saying that, you're kinda dissing yourself. :P [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:29, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::That's flattering! But I am not infallible and I am open to changing things up when folks bring up issues in good faith. I don't use the boss table I originally designed for ''Super Mario Galaxy'', for example, nor the level table as originally displayed for that article. Other folks conveyed substantive issues they had with those displays and I have taken those into account for future revisions. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:47, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::::And I too changed mine to take issues into account, just in a different direction. Nesting tables while removing that pesky padding, I have found, creates a best of both worlds, so I am unclear where the complaint arises aside from "I don't like multiple images," which is more a matter of preference. In my eyes, these table cells should represent a lite version of that subject's article (though only relevant to the particular game's appearance, of course), which is why I think a moderate amount of information (including images and audio) is preferable to having bare bones nothing-but-a-title-and-an-image-too-small-to-see. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:55, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::For context, I do not like game articles like those on Bulbapedia or Zeldapedia, which essentially serve as table of contents for other pages dedicated to specific subjects that appear within their games. That is not the kind of information I am personally looking for when I seek out out an article about a game, and I suspect that is true for others as well. I appreciate having some explanation or context as to what the subject on a table is in relation to the game it is in without needing to jump to other pages. Certainly, details do not have to be as in-depth as the subject's dedicated article, but at least some context is appreciative. That's personally what I look for, at least. I'm open to the idea that I'm alone in that perspective.
-:::::::::::::On these tables, I find their structured comparably to those type of table-of-contents-first game articles. Visual assets, often multiple and/or large ones for single subjects, and without much context. Even with the information currently integrated, I still think it looks messy to have multiple displays of a single character, kart, or course when one achieves the same result. I would still scrutinize why that is necessary. Also, forgive me. I didn't mean to imply you are unreceptive to feedback. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:21, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::Pretty much it amounts to: Artwork/model/screenshot for visual clarity, I like to be able to see the subject at hand in as much detail as possible without it being like 400x400+px across (I have my limits). As for icons, they're fun, small enough to not get in the way (and load faster if you're on a bad connection like me), generally a consistent size (unlike artwork and models), properly illustrate how the subject looks on selection and/or scoring screens (especially important when the artwork is of low color quality, like the Birthday Girl image in MK7's page), and are also useful in cases like the Miis in MKW and the Villagers in MK8 where there's multiple icons but only one artwork (if even that). And while it wasn't brought up, the music files for courses add character and make it so they're not forced to languish on a gallery page (if images can be elsewhere, so too can media files). But either way, it makes as much sense to include in a dedicated section as listing how many coins an enemy drops, so I don't think it's too much by any stretch. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:28, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::::::Again, I know these were deliberate choices, but I think they ultimately weaken the quality of the information you want to impart. For example, if the Birthday Girl artwork is such poor quality, why use it at all or blow it up to such a large resolution? Why not craft a table that only uses the sprite icons, or the artwork at smaller resolutions? Things to consider. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:06, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::::::::Can't see the deets on the icons. Except in newer games like MK8-onward, they tend towards huge icons (large enough that shrinking them is actually justifiable). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:45, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::@WaluigiTime I take offense to that "misused and abused" comment. The entire point of HTML is to be able to build things with it, having creativity, pragmatism, and coding skill is not a "misuse" or "abuse" of it. It's just thinking outside the box. (I took a graduate-level web applications development class as part of my Master's Degree, I know what I'm doing.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:30, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
+==  Toadette on video (not icon) ==
-:::That's what I've taken away from my own conversations with other users who are well-versed in website design, I'm just going off of that. Obviously there's a disconnect somewhere, I'm not knowledgeable enough on that to say for sure where it comes from. Creativity with HTML is obviously valuable, but I assume there's specific standards when it comes to conveying information. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:07, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-I'm personally kinda mixed on Doc's tables, can't really explain why. I guess it's okay-ish in the end, but I don't really see what's exactly wrong with [[Special:Diff/4248305|how it used to look]], either. In either case I think these types of table boxes should've been made on sandbox pages ''first'', and then ask other people for feedback, BEFORE implementing it on the actual pages immediately, because these are all drastic changes that ''need'' to be discussed first. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:13, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
+[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqG14jBDPNo&NR=1 click!]Go to around 40. At around 41/42 Toadette passes Peach on Peach Beach.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 13:32, 2 April 2008 (EDT)
-:Downward-vertical orientation (most read left-to-right, making it unnecessarily confusing) and being too tiny to tell what anything is (plus not having the map to tell what the layout is), that's what's wrong with it. (And uh, do people really look at others' sandbox pages?) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:19, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-::Well, if you made a discussion about it on a talk page like this one, and provided links to the relevant sandbox pages, I assure you that people ''will'' look at those sandbox pages.<br>Also, I still don't see anything inherently wrong with how the tables used to look, even after your explanation. Maybe it's because it's practically the same scheme as ''[[Mario Kart 8#New courses|Mario Kart 8]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe#Courses|Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]'', which also look fine to me. I suppose that's just a personal taste thing.<br>Also-also, I'd advice you to test how things look on 4:3 displays (since you seem to be making these specifically for thin/mobile display compatibility), because [[Special:Diff/4266394#Characters|this section on ''Mario Kart Arcade GP 2'']] does not look good at all on my iPad (and that's ''before'' [[Mario Kart Arcade GP 2#Characters|I added the full banners]], too). {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:55, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:::AGP2 is admittedly kinda a work in progress, I'd prefer to have images of the vehicles alone without all that other stuff in the screenshots, buuuuuuut that's what we have. That'd make that a lot better looking because it wouldn't be forced to be so horizontal (and I invite you to lose the banners from the table on that page now that they're full sized, the point of the original layout was to make it look like they were coming in from off-panel). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:59, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-For the little bit it's worth, Porple helped me with part of the MKDD character table (namely the Petey/Boo item thing) and he didn't seem to have any complaints with how it was set up. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:36, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
+Well, this "toad" (as a species) has a pink cap with white spots, perhaps she is toadette, although i can't watch very well, because it's blurry {{User:Coincollector/sig}} wait a little more, uhm... until we get the game?
-I'd like that add that, even with Waluigi Time's changes, Mario Kart Wii is now [[Special:LongPages|the 4th biggest page on the wiki]] thanks to these absolutely massive tables. Mario Kart DS hasn't had any of this stuff removed and it's the now second biggest page! Even if you don't like the original way this info was layed out, there are much better ways to improve on that then to add these needlessly and excessively large tables to the page. {{User:Shy Guy on Wheels/sig}} 20:26, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
+:It could be the [[Radio Contest Toad]]. ;) {{User:PaperStriker/sig}}
-:I have a very strictly metered connection, and the page's size isn't bothering me. That being said, I know exactly what is causing that, it'll be those bars on the vehicle tables (and character tables in DS), which look cool, but require a lot of code. If there were a template to replace those, the page size would go down immensely. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:59, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:EDIT: I have been replacing them with such a template, and as expected the byte size is deflating significantly. Check it out! They're now at the 18th and 19th largest. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:45, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-I have altered the "retro" course table in a manner I think should fix most of the issues; not only does it reorganize itself, once it's at one column, it is now able to shrink horizontally, including shrinking the images for room. I don't particularly like how that looks personally, but if I need to make sacrifices to make it workable for others, then that's OK by me (and unlike otherwise, it only shrinks as a last resort rather than arbitrarily, which was the problem that made me start making it so they reorganize themselves in the first place). As luck would have it, the images shrunk correspond pretty well to the images that some have called superfluous, so on a small enough screen, it's like they're not there at all. I think it does better at adapting to screen size than WT's attempted replacement, as his is cut off still and my new one is not. Please tell me if that resolves the main issues any of you have or not; if it does, I'll replace the other "wide square" tables (generally all course tables) with this type, and that should resolve everyone's issues. But if it doesn't, please let me know ;) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:27, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
+Good point, paperstriker <D. By this, since we heard that at least, 24 characters in total (excluding Miis) are going to appear, there is the possibility that any character of the mario-verse could appear -besides the most known characters... {{User:Coincollector/sig}}
-:Sorry but this doesn't solve most of the problems for me. I can fit more information on the screen at once than I used to at least (although if you're zoomed in far enough that it has to push the second course down, it looks worse than it did before), but the other problems I mentioned are still there and I don't really like the design in general. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:07, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-::And I don't think that horizontal bars are good for conveying this type of information, and looks bad for that context, while being able to go between two columns and one column depending on screen size looks good on any screen (zooming in will make any table look bad, I recommend going to windowed mode rather than zooming in; windowed mode is more accurate to how mobile devices display it, anyway - and note that it shows that your version gets halfway cut off). Obviously, it's a fundamental difference in taste at this point that can't truly be met in the middle. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:22, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-:::FWIW, I wasn't even technically zoomed in when it did that, I normally view the wiki zoomed out and was viewing it at 100%. But yeah, I agree, I don't think there's any way to salvage either of these tables to fully satisfy the people in the other camp. My vote at this point is to just start over and work on improving the old layout, staff ghosts are a separate mode and should be their own section. As far as I can tell, the biggest problem is that too much information is trying to be conveyed by these tables with the course listing and staff ghosts merged. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:33, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Well, to be honest, if the maps don't need to be on ''this'' page, neither do the ghost data. Really, the best solution would probably be to give the [[Ghost (Mario Kart series)]] article a dedicated section for listing staff ghost times (if not split Staff Ghosts from that page altogether). That being said, I think it's worth considering having the course tables look like mine (minus the staff ghost information) and have the staff ghost tables look like yours (minus the maps, and perhaps with icons over the character and vehicle icons for at-a-glance information gleaning), as yours is a lot better for that than the prior ghost tables with it listing by course rather than type, and solves the issue of mine coming off as cluttered for including it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:46, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-::''"(although if you're zoomed in far enough that it has to push the second course down, it looks worse than it did before)"''<br>Uh yeah, what Waluigi Time says here already does that for me ''automatically'' on iPad... again, Doc, please test how these tables look on 4:3 displays.<br>Some of the improvements look worse than previous revisions on iPad in general for some reason: it displays the "improved" cup headers added in [[Special:Diff/4286125#Retro Grand Prix|this revision]] as tiny cramped boxes that are small enough to ''precisely'' fit the cup name and image... I'm pretty sure they're supposed to be wide, like in [[Special:Diff/4286087#Retro Grand Prix|the revision before]]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:06, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Actually, I had noticed the box thing (I have indeed been testing with both iPad parameters and smartphone parameters). I felt it looked perfectly fine, as it echoes how the ''Super Mario Kart'' ones look, and I considered having it look that way on the wide one too. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:43, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Weirdly enough, it seems moving the ghost data to a new table has removed that particular quirk, so.... all's well that ends well? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:09, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-::::The retro cup headers still look like tiny cramped boxes that won't go wider than the image, to me... {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:15, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::It's definitely fixed now, as I've turned it back into a singular table (but with the squishability included). I've moved the ghost data out and rearranged the remainder of the table to make the best use of space, how does it look now? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:05, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::OK, I have ensured every one of this type of table I have made during this project can appear with its entire width on the screen on any screen size, and have split the staff ghost information to new tables again with the added icons. (As a bonus, for Wii, the banners appear as the largest icon on phone size, which is neat lol.) At this point, I see no possible benefits of the horizontal-based course listings for anyone these unless they ''really'' like omegasquished images on thinner screens and large amounts of whitespace on wider screens, which is generally considered poor design. (Granted, the other type looks ''mildly OK'' on tablet resolution, though the columns are still so inconsistently sized it drives me crazy. Mine looks good -in my opinion- at PC (two columns, full size), tablet (one column, full size), or phone size (one column, slightly shrunk).) Granted, mine would be thinner if whoever uploaded the course previews hadn't gone with widescreen; the idea is they're tall enough to go alongside the maps at their size. I guess I can shrink the screenshots a bit further, leaving some whitespace above and beneath while making them an easier fit for smaller PC screens, if need be. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:48, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-This isn't course-related but the vehicle section I also think should use improvement. The models themselves are a bit too large but my biggest issue is the bar graphs for the stats, they contrast very poorly with the white background and while they do take inspiration from the in-game aesthetics, those are meant to go with a darker background. I also think we don't need a black border around them, it makes it look too busy. Plus, I think bikes and karts should be grouped together since that is also how the game splits them too, especially according to cc where the vehicle type is restricted. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 11:45, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+I've watched a sharper version of the video and it looks like Toadette. {{User:Arend/sig}}
-:I'll admit, I was very unsure of how to order the vehicles, I just decided to go with how our gallery page orders them. Personally, I kinda like them big enough to see the polygons, but obviously that's just my preference and I can shrink them just fine if it's deemed over-the-top (and it probably is, especially for the small vehicles). As for the bars, the outlines are mainly to tell where the "yes" part ends and the "no" part begins if that makes sense, while the outline around the while part is mainly for ensuring consistent size. That all said, I made the bars be a template ({{tem|Bar meter}}), so they can be edited all at once through that if need be (and I was thinking about adding a color parameter for the "yes" part as well). I just wanted to not use the bar graphs seen on the vehicle pages, because personally I find the colors they use kinda ugly. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:31, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-==Decide how to present courses==
+Found another...[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xWkM--kBfU&feature=related click] She's right at the beginning.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 14:32, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{proposal outcome|passed|2-1-19-4|revert to original design}}
-About a month ago, I started overhauling the course tables after discussions with several community members who were unhappy with their current state. I only completed the new courses before getting pushback, so I left it alone in the hopes that discussion would give a general consensus on what we should go with. As far as I can tell, no consensus has emerged and that discussion has stalled for several weeks. In the meantime, the course listing is split in half between two designs which isn't ideal, especially for a featured article. I think it's about time we just go to a proposal and pick one.
-For simplicity, I'm going to refer to these as the "'''[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4307169#Wii_Grand_Prix Nitro option]'''" (my design) and the "'''[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4308233#Retro_Grand_Prix Retro option]'''" (Doc's design) (link updated to reflect changes during proposal) based on the current split. I've also seen several users say that they would prefer [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4277027#Courses reverting back to the original tables from before any changes were made], so this is also an option. I haven't included an option to try a different solution entirely because this is mostly just meant to solve things short-term. The winning design can still be adjusted as necessary and possibly replaced in the future.
+^That one was Baby Peach for sure, not Toadette -Pikatwo
-This proposal is not necessarily binding on the articles for other Mario Kart games, but they should probably be consistent with each other.
+*Wow... The Baby Stroller Kart makes it look like Toadette's head...[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 21:03, 3 April 2008 (EDT)
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
+The official JP site has the same vid (Opening Cinematic), but with better quality. I'm 99% sure it's Toadette. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-'''Deadline''': August 6, 2024, 23:59 GMT
-===Nitro option===
+== Iwata Asks: Mario Kart Wii ==
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Secondary option. The Retro tables take up too much space for the amount of information they convey I'm just not a fan of the design in general.
-#{{User|Arend}} Secondary option. I get what Doc is going for, but they made everything so big that you can only have one course fit on a single screen (at least on iPad), defeating the whole purpose of the <code>display:inline-block</code> style (alas, their criticism on the old style includes things "being too tiny to tell what anything is", so I guess we'll never see them be shrunk down). Something about the triple-border thing also seems unnecessary and clashing to me... anyway, if the tables and images are too big to fit on a screen and get <code>display:inline-block</code> work as intended, I guess it's better to have something that intentionally lists things vertically without taking up too much space.
-===Retro option===
+There's an "Iwata Asks" about MKW now:
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Obviously I'm going to vote for my designs; note I have taken criticisms into account and have changed their functionality immensely since this was last discussed, so they no longer have any trouble on smaller screens and don't shrink the images to an infuriating degree (like the originals were by default) either way. Plus, it's nice having the music and the visuals together, it adds to it more. And while looking on respective pages is valid, this allows for much easier comparison between the different aspects without requiring loading new pages each time - and you cannot convince me that not having the course maps to represent them for a ''racing game'' is "too much." Also... from what I can tell, at least, my tables look better on both wider screens and smaller screens, as it leaves less dead space in the former and doesn't require side-scrolling in the latter, unlike the other designs. If you think that is an "information overload," I invite you to instead look at [https://www.mariowiki.com/Mario_Kart_Wii#Vehicles.27_stats this table on the same page] and see if you still think so.
+http://uk.wii.com/software/interviews/mario_kart/vol1/index.html
-===Revert to the original tables===
+It revealed some things about MKW:
-#{{User|Waluigi Time}} My preferred option. I'd like it if these ran from left-to-right instead of top-to-bottom, but this is a clean way to present all of the courses. We lose out on the map layouts, but I'm not sure how important that is to readers anyway.
+*If you only use the Wii Wheel and never use another controller, you get a Golden Wii Wheel next to your name, but if you use another controller, it will change back to a white one.
-#{{User|Meta Knight|Meta}} This is simple which in this case is a good thing. If I want to learn more about a particular course I can just click the link where there would be extra info, yet all the time trial data is in a convenient list below that I can scroll to if I wanted them all in one place.
+*There's a new mode called Ghost Battles where you race against ghosts.
-#{{User|Ray Trace}} In this case, less is more, and the table here looks much more presentable and readable while occupying far less space. Information such as time trials times, map, (why is file name information even necessary, leave that to wiki.tockdom instead where that information can actually be useful), and music should all remain in the course article.
+*There's another new mode that looks like "100-Man Brawl" from SSBB.
-#{{User|Shy Guy on Wheels}} This worked fine and the attempts to change it have been rather disastrous, so I think it's best to stick with what has worked for ages now.
+*There will be a new character from SMG
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per all. We think in this case, simpler is better, and while having the course minimaps is nice, it honestly doesn't feel worth it when it kneecaps the ease of navigation.
+{{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-#{{User|Arend}} Preferred option. Nothing wrong with it, fits on the screen nicely whether it's on a 16:9 or a 4:3 screen, and it also matches with the course sections on ''[[Mario Kart 8]]'' and ''[[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]]''.
-#{{User|Tails777}} Honestly, the simpler view works better in my opinion. Arguably, it's not as consistent with how other game articles layout the courses, but I dunno, I just feel this looks fine.
-#{{User|Nintendo101}} I know a lot of work was put into the Retro tables and a lot of technical competency is apparent with them. They are impressive in that sense. I also know work was done to try to address other folks' issues with the Retro tables, and that is legitimately appreciated. However, in terms of relaying information to readers, I really think the original tables still work better, both visually and in display. Retro in particular looks poor on desktop by the size of the assets within it, demanding an unwarranted amount of attention with the information imparted. The outcome of this proposal gives room for users to experiment with what specific pieces of information to display (i.e. course maps, etc.), but in terms of the raw table infrastructure, I think this remains superior to the other options available. One may feel the display of screenshots in the original table is too small for their liking. However, I think it is perfectly fine to adjust the sizes of in-game assets (like course maps) for the purposes of conveying information, and I encourage those who feel otherwise to scrutinize why they personally feel that is intrinsically inappropriate. For example, if the purpose of including something like a course map in a table is to convey the shape of the course to readers, than seeing that asset at its in-game scale in the table directly is probably not necessary and may needlessly stretch the table (as apparent in the Retro tables). (Additionally, because ''Mario Kart Wii'' is a "Featured article", I really don't think it should be left with such widely different tables in every other subsection. Looks messy. If folks wanted to continue experimenting with tables, I recommend trying things out in their sandboxes first and asking other users for feedback before rolling them out like this.)
-#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Simplicity isn't always bad thing. I'd very much prefer to see things instantly, rather than scroll down.
-#{{User|Mario}} More straightforward. "Retro" is just overloaded with information. WT's advantage is that it's better for table of contents, but it leaves behind a lot of empty space.
-#{{User|Sdman213}} Per all.
-#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all. I think Doc's arguments on screens are exaggerated because you can still click/tap them if you want to view them in closer detail.
-#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} [[User talk:Koopa con Carne#Regarding courses|Copy/paste of my comment]] (originally about the Mario Kart DS page, but applicable here nonetheless): "I maintain that this design riddles the list with visual and informational clutter, which makes it look less like a useful chart and more like a collection of infoboxes. It looks bad regardless of display size, in addition to filling up the page with tens of thousands of bytes, all in the name of a moderate attempt at centralizing information on each course. [...]<br>I'll agree that overhead maps present essential information about a race course and deserve to be somehow incorporated into the list (it seemed to work well enough when you worked on the [[Golf]] page), though that is not something I can state about music samples, the file names, and the staff ghosts. Readers looking to quickly navigate through a list of courses shouldn't be bombarded with information all at once. The concern that it's inconveniently scattered across many articles is something I'd consider to be unfounded given the solution of a Staff Ghost section (formerly on the same page) and the dedicated media list (just one click away).<br>I also fail to see the inspiration from Nintendo101's work on the articles for Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario 3D World; his approach to course listing is actually very elegant and concise, with a reasonable amount of negative space between content as to make navigation comfortable, and not packed with superfluous stuff like audio files or galaxy icons that are not immediately important to someone looking for a chart of levels. That's not to mention the cautious use of images and color coding employed to illustrate each set of levels."
-#{{User|YoYo}} per all
-#{{User|Lakituthequick}} These tables do not need all the things, as the 2010 meme goes. I will go into more detail about some design considerations in a comment below, but the main thing here is that tables should not be used for layout and the tables here should just list the courses. I do suggest rotating the table such that there is a row per cup instead of columns.
-#{{User|Shoey}} Per all.
-#{{User|Yook Bab-imba}} Per Koopa con Carne. I find this option too basic-looking, and I like the idea of having the map, but the way it's been implemented is not visually appealing. The audio files for each one is too much.
-#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I'll be honest, adding in the music, having headers for different cups, even trying to squeeze the course maps alongside images of the courses — I just don't think the ''game'' article is the place to do all this when users could just click on the link.
-#{{User|Bro Hammer}} - Per all.
-===Do nothing (no binding decision, allow further options/discussion)===
+That new character may be Rosalina, I'm 50% sure. {{User:Arend/Sig}}
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - This is a fluid project, and I do not believe that table structure is the sort of thing that ''should'' be decided via proposal. Ideas come and go, some good, some bad, some middling but requiring some polish. This should be done through discussion alone, not a rule-binding proposal.
+:Who else I wonder could it be?  Toad is there, so another member of the Toad Brigade is unlikely... {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 10:29, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
-#{{User|Hewer}} Per Doc, I think all three of these designs have merits. Still not really sure if this option is necessary since the wording in the proposal suggests that the decision won't be binding anyway, but I agree with the sentiment. (By the way this is a bit off-topic but can we do something about the course list on [[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe – Booster Course Pass]]? It gets cut off on my phone screen.)
-#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} I gave this some thought and hadn't made a conclusive decision, but all of the discussion in the comments makes me think that it is possible for both sides to reach a compromise.
-#{{User|Lakituthequick}} Per my vote above, but I would prefer that the listing uses a <nowiki><gallery></nowiki> instead of tables altogether, so I will split my vote.
-===Comments===
+Maybe it's Queen Bee (Imagines Queen Bee on a motorbike). It'll be Rosalina, 70% sure.
-@Arend Speaking personally here, I prefer more scrolling and consistently sized table cells over microscopic might-as-well-not-be-there-at-all images and inconsistently sized cells that bump their size up and down from text wrapping. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:45, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+What could the 100-Man Brawl-like thing be? {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-:I mean yeah, they're small, but not ''microscopic''. They're 150px wide, perhaps only a tad bit smaller than wiki thumbnail images by default. Even then, I think that 400px wide is a bit overkill. I mean, images in our infoboxes aren't this wide. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:11, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::To be blunt, it's not about the width, it's about the height (specifically, to be consistent with the maximum height of the maps). If we had images representing the same shots of the course intros that ''weren't'' taken at widescreen display, I'd happily prioritize those and save on a bunch of space. As it is, only those were uploaded. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:23, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::EDIT: I went ahead and removed the screenshots in favor of just using the banners. What do you think? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:42, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::I suppose that looks a bit better? I'm not sure how I feel about the course maps looking ''enormous'' compared to the course banners, but at least more than one course can fit on my iPad screen. I think I still prefer my design though. (Side note: are the internal file names for these courses necessary, too?) {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:11, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I suppose they're not necessary, but I'm not sure what other context they can be put in where they can be compared to each other within the same list on the same page. Because easy comparison's the entire reason I added them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:14, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::I personally really like the idea of including the course maps. That is a good idea, and having the option to compare them is also great. But I don't think they need to be displayed at their in-game resolution. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:17, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::Technically, there is no "in-game resolution" for these as they are postprocessed models. The way I have them is at a consistent screen size, but the actual file dimensions are inconsistent - making resizing them consistently a hassle. I'll try, though. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:20, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::EDIT: The dark deed you have requested is done. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:34, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::I appreciate your willingness to modify your tables based on user feedback.
-:::::::I whipped up a little [[User:Nintendo101/community garden|table example myself]], and I am curious to know what you (and others) think of it. It does not include music, banners, or in-file names for courses, but it has breathing room for other information if one choses to include it. It retains screenshots and course maps. Colors are not finalized or anything like that. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:44, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::No music? <s>You describe a world I do not wish to live in.</s> I think audio cues are just as important as visual ones, and shouldn't just be left to languish on the media list pages. That's why I put them on these when they're available. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:48, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::They aren't languishing on the media lists, they're in the infoboxes on each course page. The only information from these tables not on the individual course pages is the internal names, which absolutely ought to be added (some other courses in the series have them already, e.g. [[Squeaky Clean Sprint]]). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 19:36, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::Precisely where you can only compare them with tracks from other games, rather than ones from the same game - and remember, I said they're just as important as visual cues, so they should get equal wait. I fail to see how putting them here is a detriment in ''any'' way; an added small black rectangle is ''not'' going to cause an "information overload" to anyone - particularly when this very page already has that insane "internal statistics" table. I get that most people aren't used to it, but it doesn't harm anything, but adds another layer of depth and understanding - I can't see any reason to complain about it other than being uneasy about new ideas - having a more "old-fashioned" mindset, so to speak. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:09, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::To clarify, I'm not strongly for or against any option, just wanted to point out that your implication that the media lists are the only other place with the music is incorrect. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:29, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::To be fair, I did relent on including the course maps on my battle map table design, and I think it made the thing look better in general. But I shrunk mine down to the height of the screenshots, since I placed the shot and the map horizontally. Waluigi Time did the same thing with his Nitro course tables. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:25, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::To me, it's about consistency for each image type, not for each row, as that often leads to inconsistent rows; note how the map columns in WT's tables are all over the place in width. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:50, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::I feel like this proposal is more so about "table structure" and less about what specific information is covered in them. While I do not necessarily think music needs to be included in the table I whipped up, I can see it being included underneath the description rows. (Though I more strongly agree with Ray Trace that internal file names should not be in the tables for main game articles. But again, I view that as tangential to table structure.) - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:20, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::Well, I care less about the shape and more about the content. It needs ''either'' the screenshot or the banner, plus the map, plus the music. Plus the title, of course. <small>To be frank, anything that gives an excuse to put the Wii Rainbow Road theme on more pages is enough justification in and of itself.</small> [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-@Waluigi Time rather than adopt strict adherences to what is covered in the tables, could one say, build off of the original table's structure if they wanted to incorporate other bits of information they thought was potentially useful? I do prefer them over the other two, but I do think users should feel like they have some freedom to at least experiment with how information is to be displayed and what to include.
+The only other character that ''could'' be from SMG would be a Luma and I doubt that. It's probably Rosalina. {{User:Mcoolister/sig}}
-Also, would this proposal have ramifications for the character and kart tables on the page, which are structed similarly to the Retro option? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:59, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+Actually, It coulld also be [[Kamella]]. {{User:Mcoolister/sig}}
-:I don't have any issue with making further changes, this is more about settling on a basic design than anything. I don't really like the character/kart tables either, but those are out of the scope of this proposal. They might warrant future discussion. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:25, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::I dislike them for the same reasons as I do for the course setup. It's a lot of table, image and space usage doesn't really justify the kind of information being shown. {{User:Mario/sig}} 20:34, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Problem with the other way is having tall columns full of numbers for each attribute means which column is which gets lost the lower down you go. And the sides get cut off. This way, they don't. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:22, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-[[Mario Kart Wii#Battle stages|I made a bit of an experiment of my own, too, this time w/ the battle stages]]. It makes better use of the <code>display:inline-block</code> style by removing some of the unneeded code, shrinking the images a bit and getting rid of the more superficial stuff, so it can fit all courses of a cup on widescreen. Granted, only 4 of each course can fit on a 4:3 display, so when it comes to battle courses, it still looks a bit weird on iPad, but I prefer this over Doc's take. {{User:Arend/sig}} 16:11, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+:Also, I saw some european pages that talk about using classical controllers in mario kart wii: although you can play with these controllers, you can't perform so many moves  (as tricks or speeding up the bike) as you can do with the Wii-mote {{User:Coincollector/sig}} by the other hand, I guess it should be Rosalina, a luma is not very possible, although it could be magikoopa too, because she was a classic character that made  a -prototype- appearance in MK64.
-:I still don't like hypershrunk screenshots and lack of maps. Contrast with the mildly similar course tables I made for ''[[Super Mario Kart]]'', which are small only due to the small resolution of the original screenshots and ''do'' contain the entire layout. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:14, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::I don't feel like the screenshots are """hypershrunk""", these are just a tad bigger than how an image is typically embedded on an article, and I feel they're just right in this case. Wonder what other users think of it, though. Anyway, I decided to throw in the minimaps and make them evenly sized with the screenshots. I made sure so five courses can still fit on widescreen, <s>but now 3 fit on a 4:3 iPad screen (making that look better on there for the battle maps, but probably not so much for the race courses... sizes might need to increase for those then, but the battle courses look fine for me).</s> apparently I was mistaken, 2 courses can fit on a 4:3 iPad screen now, so that renders the issue of the race courses probably not looking good on iPad moot. {{User:Arend/sig}} 17:11, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-<big>'''RETRO OPTION'S EFFECT IS ALTERED.'''</big> It now looks like [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4308233#Retro_Grand_Prix this]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:42, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+It is a character debuting in SMG! Not just appearing in it, that's what I meant with "new". {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-Can we not have internal names? Thanks. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 20:14, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+It could be a boss, there was petey from sunshine in Double Dash --[[User:Blue Koop|Blue Koop]] 13:56, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
-:Well I want them listed somewhere for easy comparison with each other, but ''I guess'' in the most long-suffering inflection ever that I could put that also in a separate list, as with the time trial stuff. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:26, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:I don't agree with or really understand the idea they shouldn't be on the wiki at all ([[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/58#Add an Internal Name syntax to Template:Foreign names|there was a whole proposal about how to make note of them]]), but yeah I agree that it doesn't really make sense putting them on tables on the game's page rather than on the course's own pages, since although it's valid information, it's pretty trivial and not even shown to the player. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:29, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::Is there any particular reasons courses get to have file names listed underneath them while every other element (items, characters, vehicles, course objects, etc.) don't? It's unnecessary information for a game article, this kind of thing is best for individual articles and I already think it slightly breaches coverage that is best left better for wikis specialized in this, explicitly [https://wiki.tockdom.com/wiki/Main_Page Custom Mario Kart] wiki. Listing character filenames would be also very terrible because there is no "BbLuigi.szs" (it might be in Driver.szs, been a while since I modded Mario Kart Wii), every single character technically is merged with their vehicle so you get "sa_bike-blg.szs" which means Baby Luigi on a Bullet Bike (and there is -2 and -3 variants of them which are lod model files should we include those too?). {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 20:31, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Well, the blunt reason is they're the ones I could get from noclip.website. As for putting them exclusively on their own pages, that removes the ability to compare, and map models tend to be more... consistent in that regard anyway. Also, the "internal statistics" pages for MK7 and MK8 ''do'' list the internal names for their items. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:46, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
-::::That's where the filenames *should* go, not in the game articles themselves. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 01:11, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::-shrug- Well, MKW doesn't have a sub article like that, so I do what I can. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:20, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Why do filenames need to be "compared" so badly anyway, to the point that having them on the individual pages isn't enough? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:52, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Because otherwise, for instance, Daisy Circuit being "Senior Course" doesn't make any sense until you realize that it's meant to be the counterpart to Luigi Circuit being the "Beginner Course." I had to scratch my head for a few minutes on that one when I first saw it on noclip, but it makes more sense when they're shown together. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:41, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-Y'all may wonder why I'm taking this so personally. As it happens, web design is my primary occupational skill. By saying that a small, inconsistently celled, poorly ordered table that was probably made in 5 minutes and conveys very little information is better than the nested table I spent hours ensuring would look perfect on any screen size is, to be blunt, a rather harsh insult to the main thing I'm good at, so naturally I'm not going to take very kindly to it. Nintendo101, imagine if someone took issue with in-depth taxonomy being used for categories and sought to restrict it to the level of what a 5-year-old's picture book on animals would convey. That's about as insulting as this is, if not slightly less (and I'm a taxonomy nut too, so I can relate through that, even if I didn't pursue biology at an occupational level due to my squeamishness). Trace, imagine if someone decided to get rid of all the model renders from the site because screenshots are more in-game accurate - and in the meantime, start calling them "sprites" because "it doesn't matter." Hell, LGM, imagine if someone launched a campaign to have all ''Mario Party'' images feature Wario ''winning'', either in apathy or direct antipathy towards the beloved running gag you've built up these past several years. And I take issue with the "simplicity" argument: we are a wiki, it is not our job to "simplify" things, it's our job to document and convey them. If you want things "simplified," there's a million patronizing-voiced YouTubers who can do that much better. As it is, you're just making me feel unwanted :\ [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:48, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
+According to IGN, the GameCube controller can pull of those tricks with the + control pad. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 14:00, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
-:I'm not particularly fond of calling tables I see here "made in 5 minutes" ([https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Superstar_Baseball&diff=802980&oldid=802226 for example, I've worked on Mario Superstars Baseball's character table a verrrryyy long time ago], prior to your current revamps, let me tell straight that no way these were hastily done in 5 minutes and that a lot of thought was indeed put into them). None of us here are saying that you didn't put any effort, nor did we insinuate that you've purposely done design decisions that we don't agree with. Honestly, if there was a compelling argument that models are bad because screenshots are better and we should delete all models on the wiki, and that said proposal passes, then yeah sure I'd be peeved at first but eventually, I just realize it's really not worth getting fussy about. I've had plenty of proposals that didn't go the way I want, and it is frustrating to get people who feel like they don't agree with you or read your points, but ultimately, none of this is a personal attack, it's a disagreement. I also strongly disagree with your assertion that we're simplifying things just for the sake of it and it...kinda is our job to simplify: we're simplifying things for the sake of accessibility or readability, you know, function. There's a reason we limit color usage in tables or we make tables occupy a reasonable amount of space without requiring readers to scroll through text too much, and if simplifying things makes it better for the browsing experience, then so be it, but like all things, it's all case-by-case. I prefer tables over plain bullets (like in the Mario Superstar Baseball article that's why I revamped it like that and it stayed that way for quite some time) but there is such thing as too much formatting and clutter which makes things much tougher for readers to navigate. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 01:06, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::I'm aware it's not a personal attack, and I too have had many proposals that have gone counter to what I want, but this particular case is so entrenched with what it is I ''do'', and indeed [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4285578 started with an ''actual'' verbal attack against me], that I cannot help but be defensive on it. All that said, I've done my darndest to appease everyone, and I still don't know what the problem is, particularly why one that doesn't even show the course maps (a paramount representation for '''race tracks''') would be more popular - and I see no "compelling argument" for that. The current design I have is just as simple, but not as ''cryptic'' as the "how it was before" one. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:20, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::I'm open to ideas of better organization, I'm always looking for improvements to presentation ([[Mario Sports Superstars]] can use one, it's a bit of a mess lol), but as of currently, in my opinion, there's too many images and they're too big (it's somewhat of a headache to browse over them). I do appreciate the attempts to give them a little bit more flair than prior ones (when it comes to tables like these, I'm just a bit more old fashioned because that's what I'm used to) ([[Mario Kart Arcade GP 2]] before the revamp I actually liked but now, I think I've outgrown how and colorful tacky it used to look lol). I don't agree with adding mini maps to the course overview mostly because most Mario Kart games don't do that and just show an overview of the course, so I personally don't deem it as necessary as the track overview). I do agree that Koopa Con Carne should be a lot less abrasive undoing your edits however, because ultimately, we're not here to shit on each other but to improve browsing experience for users. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 01:26, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I mean, the maps ultimately tell more about the course than a screenshot of any size (unless it was like {{file link|MKDD MushroomCity.png|this screenshot}}, but that's obviously not a native angle). And while they don't represent on the course select screen, they are constantly on the screen during the race itself. I'd just as soon prioritize the maps over the screenshots, but I'd prefer both were there in some capacity. And if Swoop's article can get a soundbyte of a parrot chirping embedded in its history section, then these items can get their music tracks on here for the trifecta of representation: a visual, a layout, and an audio. Nothing left out, not taking up much space (more space is taken up by the sheer size of the cup icons now lol), and not shrunk into oblivion when on a smaller screen - the entire reason I made these "automatically sorting" tables is because I was tired of things shrinking into near-nonexistence when the screen was small, and especially the ones many character tables had where, due to the images' inconsistent base sizes, they tended to shrink in weird inconsistent ways leaving some tiny and others normal. I merely wanted that weird side effect to stop. Buuuuut I'm rambling now. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 01:40, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::@Ray Trace, criticizing someone's work is "shitting on it" now? All I did was calling Doc's design "bad" and "extremely hectic and crammed", which most people in this proposal, ''yourself included'', are in agreement with. I didn't make fun of it, I didn't put it in BJAODN, and I didn't insult the person who developed it. (If Doc took that as a "verbal attack against her", that's on her.) You can't accuse me of bad faith. You have lobbed similar criticisms to other users' works in the past and you're frankly no stranger to using much nastier language. Being blunt is not being discourteous. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 06:21, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::I don't know if the word-or-its-counterpart is softer in Romanian, but calling something "bad, simple as" is about as insulting as you can get (possibly even worse than profanity) - and it tells me ''nothing'' I could do to improve it, so it's not a "legitimate criticism." That should be obvious - and again, as my primary occupational skill, an insult like that towards it is also an insult towards me, because that's what I ''do''. (Also, most people really aren't acknowledging the "[https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Mario_Kart_Wii&oldid=4308233#Retro_Grand_Prix current]" iteration, where I've actually taken people's ''actual, constructive'' criticisms into account to make everyone happy, but I guess it's pointless if people aren't gonna check and offer any further critique...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:48, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::There's nothing insulting in calling someone's work "bad". The author is a separate entity from their own creation, which, if deemed of low quality, grants an invitation to the author to learn and grow. Sometimes the criticism is in bad faith, or indeed seeps into ad hominems, but I'm doubting the likelihood of that being the case here when 13 people so far have spoken out against these changes, quite civilly at that. Your continuous appeal to emotion has no place here; frankly nobody cares how passionate you are about something if you're unwilling to actually listen to the feedback you're given. Your current iteration, whether acknowledged or not, still bloats the page significantly, harming the ease of navigation and loading up the storage just so you could have everything and the kitchen sink in one restricted spot.<br>I'd also like if people stopped assuming I'm applying meanings and connotations from my native language into English. I'm pretty sure I write in this language at a comfortably native-like level, and the qualifier I gave to your work is, in fact, appropriate. If you're really curious how the word for "bad", as in "low quality", translates into Romanian, [[wiktionary:prost#Romanian|it's the same word as the one for "stupid"]]--and believe me when I say that not once did I endeavor to attack your intelligence in my criticism. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 10:27, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::I'm not trying to "appeal" to emotion, I'm stating how I feel so there's no ambiguity as to why I feel offended by this, even if it's misplaced. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:00, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::Koopa con Carne, if someone takes offense to your use of language, regardless if you mean it or not, then yes, your language is way too direct and abrasive, and people will find your blunt wording offensive; people will react to criticism differently. Maybe the usage of the word "bad" you think isn't offensive, but your edit summary calling out Doc von Schmeltwick directly telling her to "stop being so protective of your edits, you don't own the material shown here" absolutely is, there is no way to go around what your intent of writing is. Also, this isn't about me and my usage of language in the past, regardless of how direct I was, it's about your behavior. I also strongly disagree that there is "nothing insulting in calling someone's work bad" or telling someone that "nobody cares how passionate you are", those are, by definition an ad hominen, and yes, it is an insult on someone personally, even if it purely directed at the work itself and not the author, there isn't a total disconnect from someone's work. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 11:27, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::I would like to point out how Nintendo101 also is supporting moving back to the original, but their comments have been nothing but supportive of experimentation, and they have given constructive ideas on what I should do with my designs to make them work better (shrinking the maps and all that). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:43, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::@Ray Trace, I take it you changed your stance on [https://www.marioboards.com/threads/38172/#post-1916073 this], then?<br>"There's no need to internalize criticisms of your writing; we aren't attacking anyone personally when we say that the writing is sub-standard."<br>If you no longer associate with that statement, and you now truly believe that calling someone's work "poor" or "bad" is offensive and a personal attack, then what do you have to say regarding this point in [[MarioWiki:Courtesy]]:<br>"There is no need to be nasty when you undo an edit or clean up someone else's work. For example, if you're fixing someone's bad grammar, just say "fixing grammar" or "'''<u>bad</u> grammar'''""<br>What about the time I, myself, got overprotective over my own edits and a bureaucrat told me [[User_talk:Koopa_con_Carne/Archive_2#Warning|the following]]:<br>"As a final note, remember that this is a ''wiki''. <u>Anyone</u> can come along and modify what you have written. Any work you submit here is [[MarioWiki:General disclaimer|not owned by you]], and you cannot become pretentious or hostile towards users who ''validly'' change something."<br>Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this exactly how Doc has conducted herself so far with the edits to these pages? I only reverted her edits twice, once as I was expressing my distaste for the new table design, and another time when she [[Special:Diff/4285573|nonchalantly undid Waluigi Time's own work]], enforcing her own vision, which is discourteous. For the record, the reason I'm dredging up those messages from years ago is to show ''exactly'' the kind of philosophy I employed to develop myself as an editor of this wiki; and whilst I still don't agree with the way my contributions were sometimes derided, I was very much going down a wrong path, which these reminders helped correct. To find that you are suddenly backpedaling on these notions is disconcerting and I'm seriously starting to call into question the good faith of the people I'm talking with here. Try to be consistent. I take the liberty of reciprocating a person's criticisms if they, themselves, act inconsistently. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 12:18, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::The difference is when I initially reverted, I didn't call WT's work "bad," I apologized and explained what issues I saw in it (and if he had done the whole thing instead of just one section, I wouldn't have the kneejerk response; I prefer mainspace edits avoid "construction" time unless it's a truly herculean effort to change, and more of the course table edits I've made have been all in one go - often across multiple days of being in the editing mode before submitting). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:22, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-By the way, is the "no binding decision" option that Doc added necessary? The proposal already suggests that it's not trying to be binding ("the winning design can still be adjusted as necessary and possibly replaced in the future"). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:12, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+*It doesn't mean they're new and came from SMG, they mean it's new to Mario Kart.[[User:Darth waluigi|Darth waluigi]] 14:05, 4 April 2008 (EDT)
-:I'm not entirely sure, proposal rules do require a status quo option unless the status quo violates policy. In this case, doing nothing would leave a featured article in a very messy state indefinitely until someone makes a new design that we can agree on, which doesn't exactly seem supported by policy. A big part of this proposal is cleaning up the mess, whether we want to come up with a different solution down the road is a mostly separate issue. (That being said, I do like the layout Nintendo101 came up with much better as far as including more information goes.) --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:02, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::It's less "leave it how it is" and more "don't make a binding decision that could age poorly and would require another proposal to change." As it previously was, all three were that kind of option, and, well - to quote Obi-Wan - ''only a Sith deals in absolutes'' <s>as hilariously hypocritical that quote is</s>. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:19, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-:::What if we reverted to the original tables just to keep the display consistent on a featured article, and then worked on new ones together in a sandbox until we got to something we all liked? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 16:45, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-::::That could work! [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:41, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
-@Hewer I might get to that monstrosity of a track collection at some point depending on how this goes, though I'll probably stay far away from Tour's, I'm not brave enough to try anything with a list of that sheer size yet. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:14, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+*It does, if they mean Magikoopa they wouldn't have said it came from SMG. They said this: "By the way, a new character has joined in from Super Mario Galaxy, so I hope you look forward to it…". If it didn't debut in Super Mario Galaxy, they wouldn't have said that. {{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}
-Doc von Schmeltwick: if it means anything, if I have suggestions for ideas and whatnot, I'll suggest them, so as long as my part time work schedule allows for it. For instance, I bring up that rawsize gallery proposal.[https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/68#Expand_use_of_.22rawsize.22_gallery_class] It wasn't going anywhere at the time, and I opposed it, but I dropped a comment asking about additional parameters that would address voter concerns, which is including size parameters. You did this and I changed my vote to support. However, I waited a bit to see if you're going to amend the proposal to call attention to the new parameters, but at the time, I waited a while. And then I finally noticed the deadline was the next day, and there were more oppposes than supports, which I then tried to call attention to the new parameters you and Steve made, thru our Discord server and a comment in the proposal and people did change their votes in time. I was really concerned the proposal was going to fail despite the provisions being updated; it would be very disappointing for you despite what you've tried to do, so I tried my best to call back to it before deadline. Now, the proposal passed and I thought you must've been relieved and quite satisfied people changed votes.
+Ok, I was just thinking. they only said that you cannot perform certain moves with classical controllers. {{User:Coincollector/sig}} Now, it's time we stop talking who is the secret character from SMG here. talk that in the chat, don't you?
-So anyway, my criticisms here are that, just criticisms. I really didn't expect them to upset you, as I was under impression you were already aware that I've criticized your tables in the [[Talk:Mario Strikers Charged]] page. That wasn't my intent, so I'm sorry for that. To explain my problems: there are several bedrock issues I have. First, what is wrong with the tables and why do they need fixing? I didn't quite understand why the original tables were so bad. Second, is table really the ideal solution for organizing the information? From all the coding and fretting over displays and how images look, I was left wondering if inline formatting is so fundamentally flawed and limited that it simply isn't the appropriate task to carry this out. Additionally, from my understanding, tables is not recommended for layout, and Wikipedia recommends using css classes due to their ability to adapt to different sorts of displays.[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Tables#Appropriate_use] I understand we are not Wikipedia, but MarioWiki doesn't have a comprehensive guide for using CSS on MediaWiki projects to their fullest potential, so I have to rely on what older wikis with a much bigger userbase (and a web design expert being more likely to have written the guidelines or gave suggestions for 'em) have to say. I also understand that the tables you've worked on are not the only offenders in the wiki, so this advice should extend to general practices on the wiki. However I cannot articulate much more what "CSS class" entails in. You should know better since you did say you have experience in this. All my CSS experience was really just editing the interface of the wiki as well as making custom layouts in Acmlmboard-style forums. So, you'll have to do a little more exploring into what that does, maybe work out something with Steve here, experiment with CSS and stuff, I'm sure you might find a cool thing or two. {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:08, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+== Amerikan site ==
-:Ultimately, my problems with the original come down to two things: the lack of information coming off as less "simple" and more "cryptic," and there being a lot of wasted space on wider screens (as well as the cups being sorted by column, which bothers me a lot more than it probably should - I expect left-to-right, not top-to-bottom). Difficulty in finding the proper parameter led to using nested tables, while learning how it looked on smaller screens is what gave me the idea for the inline-block. If screen sizes were more consistent, this of course wouldn't be a problem, but such is the world we live in. The inline-block is the only way to make it so it doesn't look awkward on at least one of the screen types, provided enough work goes into it. On that subject, how I handled the character and vehicle tables: in the horizontal-based previous versions, if you were looking at an item near the bottom of the list, you can no longer tell which column represents what, since it's far up offscreen, and the numbers tend to blur together anyway. This is also why I've taken to using bar meters and color-coded star meters, it makes it clear what is numerically represented without having to focus in a sea of tiny black numbers - if information can be gleaned to someone with unfocused eyes, then as far as I'm concerned it's become more accessible. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:23, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+It is a small site but the intro movie of mariokart wii is very large.
-::Yeah, not hugely a fan of cups being sorted by column but I understand the possible justification: courses are ordered from top-down in the game. By the way the cup display in Vector 2022 (which I use; it's a narrow desktop display similar to Wikipedia's current narrow design) is uneven, but that's probably able to be fixed. As for lack of information, the article is big enough already and I feel the bgm is the most dispensable kind of information to have. You brought up the Swoop's cockatiel clip, but it's not common practice in the wiki overall, and it was a leftover part of a trivia point being incorporated (the audio clip supports a trivia point in the end; the course bgm just seems more of bonus information). This is the same case for filename, which I think belongs more in the main article than Mario Kart Wii (and try to imagine this being extended to other articles; should Mario's information in [[Super Mario Odyssey]] include his szs file? Should Sand Kingdom also have its szs file accompanying its name?). I could see a case of the file instead being linked in the body text rather than be a thumbnail clip. Finally, those stat bars. They're not easy to read. It may owe to just how the coding is designed to be, but it's really thin and small (bordered by a nesting table) and doesn't contrast well with the wiki's interface. As for nesting tables? I believe these are to be used very sparingly (doesn't translate to screen reading very well?) and I don't think this is an instance where they should be used. The discussion is getting lengthy and while I know I should try to address them all, I just want to focus on a couple of things before it turns into a gish gallop sort of thing. {{User:Mario/sig}} 22:41, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+the adress of the site is http://www.mariokart.com/wii
-:::I did move the filenames to the course pages earlier today, actually. I don't think that the BGM tracks can hurt anything by being present; visually, they're a small thin black rectangle, and don't even load the .oga unless clicked on directly. And, to be frank, I ''really like'' having them there, having relevant music available is a treat IMO. In regards to the nested tables, I really don't see where the issue is coming from; the most awkward look the current version of my course tables can have is three-across, which IMO still looks preferable to the previous one if only because if internal layout (and I can fix that anyway by giving it a clear separator - so it automatically shrinks from four across to two across, that's just getting a little bit too recursive IMO. I just like the ability for it to fill horizontally no matter the screen size without, say, shrinking Waluigi to near-nothing while Donkey Kong gets bloated up. Because before I started implementing the nesting, that happened. A lot. Plus, it makes it easier to tell which number goes to which stat/character when editing, because without that, they tend to blur together. As for the bar meters, I find them more useful than numbers alone, especially in cases where the maximum possible values differ; any issues with their formatting can be fixed easily, I created a template specifically for it. I'll admit, the tight white-and-black outline is definitely a personal appeal of mind (resembling stat bars and health meters in many games), though it's also useful in cases where the background isn't already solid white - which is a case I prefer to deal with ahead of time rather than later. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:54, July 24, 2024 (EDT)
+{{User:Arend/Sig}}
-::::The biggest reason I'm opposed to relevant music there is mostly because, while I do agree it's important information, I think it's unnecessary in a game article, where I think the information becomes relatively extraneous. I'll argue here that sound effects such as voices are around as important, but that doesn't mean we should integrate format character select voice clips for the character gallery. Plus, I'd apply this consistency to every other game article on the wiki and frankly having music underneath every time we mention a location or describe it gets very cumbersome. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 16:48, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::The main difference between this and every other game is that the ''Mario Kart'' games generally have one theme (all unique with occasional exceptions for similar courses) per location (with occasional variations, like with Koopa Cape), while levels in platforming games can have many different music tracks, most non-unique - for instance, SMB having fairly consistent music for locales and SMG music shifting often mid-mission. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:42, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::Yes, but also take account into RPGs, Mario Party, Mario Sports games, and other Mario spinoffs as well. I just think having consistent application of it across game articles would be very messy. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:40, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::I agree that music is probably better served off of the main game articles. I honestly think the media lists associated with game articles have potential to be a lot more robust than they currently are, as thorough articles about game music that folks would enjoy reading. But that is an idea to explore some other time. Ultimately, I think the main articles are primarily meant to be read, so text and visual information is more important.
-::::::But regardless, just to get a sense of how audio files ''could'' be included in tables without it taking up too much real estate on the article, I have incorporated them '''[[User:Nintendo101/community garden|here]] in a collaborative sandbox that anyone and everyone is welcomed to edit'''. I put this together in response to Doc's openness to working on tables as a group. While I do think the original tables on the article are serviceable, I understand if others feel like they could put together something different, and I think it's nice to have a space where folks could experiment with peers. The infrastructure of the table in this sandbox was something I put together, but others can swap that out with something else if they feel they are better. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 20:25, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-Some design considerations for tables and lists and the combination thereof that I think are important, and which are ''very'' commonly violated on this wiki, including in the tables concerned in this proposal:
-*Tables should be used for tabular data. Tables should not be used for layout.
-*Nesting tables is a no-go. This usually implies that they're used for layout, for which I refer to the preceding point.
-*Vertical scrolling for a table on smaller screens is not so bad if said table is displaying tabular data. While it is true that small screens present issues for layout when layout is the target, for data tables this is fine and not something worth "solving". The internal kart statistics elsewhere on this article are an example of such.
-*If layout is a goal, then tables are not the solution and one should look into semantically laying out the right HTML and sprinkle the right CSS over it. This, I'm aware, may scare people who are not proficient in coding beyond the simplified layer wiki coding provides, which is why at that point templates developed by people who are proficient in this matter can be interesting, which are more usable by the average editor. This is not a thing I have seen a lot on the wiki before though.
-**There are a few templates around which do abstract complex coding away as such, but those I've seen ironically use tables for such layout.
-Up for taste:
-*I don't think music and internal names are worth adding to the course overviews. Maps... maybe, but I would prefer a screenshot or render. For more information I will visit the wiki page about the course I'm interested in.
-*For visualising numbers beyond a plain number, it is possible to use simple styling to colour text or background of cells. In the case of bars such as used in the vehicle stats (which, that table should be entirely revamped to be tabular anyway as per the above), that bar can be stylistically added to the background, for example.
-In regards to "adjustments to the winning design" and the option I voted, to expand on my suggestion there: Imagine, if you will, you read the table aloud as if you are reading a book. You will hear: "Mushroom Cup. Flower Cup. Star Cup. Special Cup. Luigi Circuit. Mario Circuit. Daisy Circuit. Dry Dry Ruins. Moo Moo Meadows." et cetera. This is confusing!<br>
-The argument that the game lists them this way is not valid, that would turn this into a table-for-layout, which is not good.
-Other tables on this article showcase much the same issues as the course ones, but I'll leave those out of this for now as they are outside the scope of this proposal and I much would like to go to bed now. {{User:Lakituthequick/sig}} 00:45, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
-:"Table-for-layout" is ''not'' bad, though, it's a basic function of wikitext - and while yes, HTML would work for that, the native wikitext makes more sense to use for consistency with how other structures are built. I don't know why you're against it, but it being "bad" is wholly subjective. Personally, I dislike galleries being used that way; by default, the images tend to be much too small and the items have a ridiculous amount of padding with no barrier around the textual portion. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:47, July 26, 2024 (EDT)
-::Wiki formatting is just an abstraction layer over HTML to make it easier to use, this does not affect the function and purpose of tables and other markup. I'll cite a few sources:
-::*[https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/tables.html Tabular data (HTML Standard)]
-::**"The table element represents data with more than one dimension, in the form of a table."
-::**"Tables must not be used as layout aids. Historically, some web authors have misused tables in HTML as a way to control their page layout. This usage is non-conforming, because tools attempting to extract tabular data from such documents would obtain very confusing results. In particular, users of accessibility tools like screen readers are likely to find it very difficult to navigate pages with tables used for layout."
-::*[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTML/Element/table <nowiki><table></nowiki>: The Table element (MDN Web Docs)]
-::**"The <nowiki><table></nowiki> HTML element represents tabular data—that is, information presented in a two-dimensional table comprised of rows and columns of cells containing data."
-::*[https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Tables/Basics HTML table basics (MDN Web Docs)]
-::**"A table is a structured set of data made up of rows and columns (tabular data). A table allows you to quickly and easily look up values that indicate some kind of connection between different types of data, for example a person and their age, or a day of the week, or the timetable for a local swimming pool."
-::**"HTML tables should be used for tabular data — this is what they are designed for. Unfortunately, a lot of people used to use HTML tables to lay out web pages, e.g. one row to contain the header, one row to contain the content columns, one row to contain the footer, etc. [...] This was commonly used because CSS support across browsers used to be terrible; table layouts are much less common nowadays, but you might still see them in some corners of the web." (this section continues [https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Learn/HTML/Tables/Basics#when_should_you_not_use_html_tables with more points])
-::Use of galleries is indeed subjective, however, for the issues you raise, there are a few display modes for galleries as listed in [https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Images#mode_parameter the MediaWiki docs]. Especially <code>mode="packed"</code> is of interest in course galleries, and attributes such as <code>widths</code> and <code>heights</code> exist to make images larger. {{User:Lakituthequick/sig}} 16:04, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
-:::Dedicated layout elements in HTML tend to be a bit more squirrelly to use than table elements (and I did attempt using divs at first, but the result was so poor it didn't make it past the edit preview phase). Taking advantage of easy-to-use elements in creative ways is ''not'' bad, in spite of what their original purpose was. And yeah, I know about those gallery tags, and use them often on gallery pages; they still don't look as good as tables do on mainspace pages, and I prefer to keep gallery elements exclusive to dedicated gallery sections and pages whenever possible. A page interrupted by a table is normal; a page interrupted by a gallery just looks ''off''. And yes, that too is subjective, but I'm not saying it should be disallowed completely. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:49, July 27, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I'm going to have to question your claim that "web design is my primary occupational skill". Do you know CSS or not? To be frank and honest, your replies to LTQ's comment is not lending credence to your claims. {{User:Mario/sig}} 15:20, July 27, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Yes, I do (and have many examples on the very computer I am using made in Visual Studio; if you need proof, I can DM you a github link), but some CSS functions do not work within HTML tags (even within the 'style="..."' portions, which if you look at my edits you will see I use extensively), and for wiki pages, the only way to use these remaining ones are through pages such as "[wikiname].common.css," which are rather outside the scope of what a non-sysop should be editing. I can't just put a <nowiki><style> or <script></nowiki> section on an ordinary wiki page, it won't do anything. Granted, .CSS pages can be made for template-specific ones, but I generally prefer to save making a new template for extreme cases as I do not like their overuse since they become too rigid in how they format things (and become highly difficult to preview changes on when there are multiple together). Now, I have had Porple's help in implementing certain CSS functions that require that (such as the rotating item icon for Petey and King Boo on the Double Dash page), but in general I prefer to limit myself to what tools can be done without deep changes to the wiki's functionality. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:32, July 27, 2024 (EDT)
-I've noticed people bringing up "consistency with MK7 and MK8 pages" as a reason to revert, which I find rather baffling - I've been doing these in release order, so I ''hadn't gotten to them yet''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:16, July 26, 2024 (EDT)
-:First, I for the life of me cannot find who even ''mentioned'' Mario Kart 7 in this conversation at all but you, and definitely not in regards of consistency (in fact, my vote is the only one which mentions the old tables match that of MK8 and MK8D). Second, you doing these in release order and thus having applied this style on more games than not, doesn't necessarily mean the argument is invalid. The point is that ''most people liked the old style better'', and your style had been applied ''only by yourself'' without much discussion, if any. If people don't like the new style only you have a (large) hand in, it doesn't exactly matter whether your style is the more consistent one. That's like if I alone were redesigning the tables in all the ''Mario Party'' games by release order, and by the time I got to ''Mario Party 10'', someone told me that they liked the old tables better and likened the old style to those in ''Mario Party Superstars'', and I'd say "Yeah but ''my'' tables are the more consistent one now, and I'm doing them in release order, so it doesn't matter if they should be more consistent with the ''Mario Party Superstars'' ones since I haven't gotten to that one yet". The reason why people are only now saying something about it is that your course tables on Mario Kart Wii are by far the most egregious example, and it looked actually kinda alright on the prior Mario Kart pages (even if they still include some unnecessary things like internal filenames and course BGM, and there wasn't necessarily anything wrong with the old tables there either - hello ''[[Mario Kart DS#Courses|Mario K]][[Special:Diff/4253367#Courses|art DS]]''). {{User:Arend/sig}} 13:51, July 27, 2024 (EDT)
-::Well, on this page, I think they were brought up on other ones, and I mostly remembered people saying "later ones" (which would include it) and "Mario Kart [number]." And to be fair, I fixed the glaring issues brought by MKW's widescreen screenshots to this style by removing them, and also removed the internal names for it; look at the "retro" section on the page now, it looks a lot better than it did when this proposal was initially made. MKDS's main issue, admittedly, was the battle courses being in a different section entirely; to the point that at first, I thought they were outright missing from the page, their location was so counter-intuitive. And I will metaphorically die on the hill that while the BGM may not be "necessary," it does not hurt anything but ''does'' add more to it, so it's better there than not there by sheer measure of enrichment. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:01, July 27, 2024 (EDT)
-:::You still haven't addressed my comment about requiring to include sound effects in item sections, voice files into character sections, vehicle engine sounds in vehicle sections, which are all as equally important, adds more to the article, and as enriching as BGM. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 03:20, July 29, 2024 (EDT)
-::::We don't -have- files for most of those, and sound effects are different from music - mainly because they almost always have more than one per entity. That being said, I'd have no problem with including the select character voice clip, or the engine noises (note that I did include the character-based unqiue victory themes on the SMK character table); most of the items don't really have a distinct audial cue (let alone in a consistent context), though. And apologies for not answering this one sooner, I legitimately did not see it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:53, July 29, 2024 (EDT)
-== Dead link spotted on page ==
-I know I'm still retired from editing, but I noticed that the ark42 link on this page (It's the one directly after the text "with the units being out of 80") goes to a 404 error, but it is still viewable on the Internet Archive. I was wondering if it could be updated so it no longer points to a 404? -{{User:MinecraftFan/sig}} 08:49, November 29, 2024 (EST)
-:I just updated it to have the Internet Archive link. Thanks for letting us know! [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 10:00, November 29, 2024 (EST)