Editing Talk:Mario Kart Tour

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*'''[[Talk:Mario Kart Tour/Archive 1|Archive 1 (1-50)]]'''
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== Obstacles Table ==

Looking at some of the obstacles, they're starting to get quite bloated just by the sheer number of courses and their variants they appear in, in particular, the cones and pipes. I was thinking instead of having a new line for each course variant, we should have a new line for each course, and then list the variants afterward, something like:
*SNES Mario Circuit 1, R, T, R/T
*3DS Toad Circuit, T
*3DS Rainbow Road R, R/T
And if there's a case where it's in a bonus challenge, and then in a variant, maybe something like:
*GCN Dino Dino Jungle (Do Jump Boosts), T, R/T
Would this work? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:34, November 9, 2020 (EST)
:I was planning to do exactly this the other day. I support the change. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:46, November 9, 2020 (EST)
::Maybe the variants in which they appear should be listed as (normal, R, T, R/T). Just a suggestion. I otherwise support the change as well. {{User:Archivist Toadette/sig}} 21:14, November 9, 2020 (EST)
:::Agreed with putting the variants in the same line to avoid bloating. The lists will only get bigger so this kind of aggregation is useful.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:57, November 9, 2020 (EST)
::::The only issue with doing something like (N, R, T, R/T) to denote variants would be in a bonus challenge case like the Dino Dino Jungle case I posted above, or more practically, the Pipe being present in 3DS Shy Guy Bazaar (Do Jump Boosts) but also in its Trick variant by default. Is the following example not too confusing?
::::*3DS Shy Guy Bazaar (T), (N) (Do Jump Boosts) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:45, November 10, 2020 (EST)
:::::Bonus Challenges courses are stored in the separate <tt>event</tt> folder in the internal data, so there's no need to label them as N, R, T or R/T, just name the Bonus Challenge.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 04:26, November 10, 2020 (EST)

:::::I prefer the first format you proposed.
:::::*3DS Shy Guy Bazaar, R (Ring Race), T (Do Jump Boosts)
:::::In this example, it's clear which challenge pertains to which variant (Ring Race to the reverse variant, Do Jump Boosts to the trick variant), whereas putting each singular part in brackets--(R) (Ring Race), (T) (Do Jump Boosts)--would be redundant. Would semicolons (;) make the delimitations more visible instead of commas?
:::::*3DS Shy Guy Bazaar; R (Ring Race); T (Do Jump Boosts)
:::::{{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 08:29, November 10, 2020 (EST)
::::::I went on to see if the format worked, and it did. I’ll see if I can update the table. --{{User:Bri-11/sig}}

== Tour-exclusiveness ==
I don't find the "tour-exclusive" status we attribute to certain drivers, karts and gliders to be too helpful. It can easily become obsolete, with one of the most glaring examples being the Cheermellow, a kart that was available in three tours straight starting with the Winter one, still described as "tour-exclusive" in this page's table. I would remove this term; the instances of availability of each item are listed in the item's table entry and thus already indicate whether it is exclusive to a tour or not. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 17:38, November 11, 2020 (EST)
:While we do have special availabilities listed, I think the main reason for using "tour-exclusive" is to separate the (mainly high-end) drivers, karts, and gliders that always have a chance to be pulled from pipes, regardless of tour, compared to those that are only available in, say, the Sunset Pipes of the Sunset Tour. If we have some kind of distinguisher like that, then we could remove the "tour-exclusive" status. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:30, November 11, 2020 (EST)
::Yeah, the ''Availability'' column was never implemented and as such, we absolutely need to tell which items are found in every 100 items pipe, let's not forget that the High-End items found in every pipe are also available in the All-Clear pipe and are sold in the Tier Shop. So either we implement an ''Availability'' column with, for example, the ''base set Daily Selects'', ''additional set Daily Selects'', ''every pipe'' and ''restricted'' values or we need at least to tell what items can be found in every pipe and what items are still event-restricted instead.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:39, November 11, 2020 (EST)
:::Some kind of "General availability" column should be implemented, and the possible availabilities could probably be Daily Selects base set, Daily Selects additional set, In every pipe, or None. And, we should assume that the driver/kart/glider debuted with that general availability except when listed, such as Pauline's general availability being "In every pipe (Holiday Tour onwards)". The elephant in the room becomes the current "Availability" column which lists dates. In my opinion, it's redundant as basically every case coincides with the start date of their debut tour, with the few exceptions of "Opponent in a bonus challenge/Playable" or "Added/Obtainable". This can easily be added to the "Tour debut" column with, in the example of Hammer Bro, "Baby Rosalina Tour (bonus challenge opponent) <nowiki><br></nowiki> Hammer Bro Tour (playable)", or Black Yoshi, with something along the lines of "Yoshi Tour (obtainable starting April 15, 2020)". [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 04:31, November 21, 2020 (EST)

== Galleries on tour pages ==

Okay, so there seems to be a bit of a difference when it comes to hosting image galleries on tour pages. I repeatedly tried creating a gallery on [[Mario vs. Luigi Tour]]'s article for [[:File:MKT Mario vs. Luigi Tour launch artwork.jpg|relevant]] [[:File:MKT Mario vs. Luigi Tour alternate launch artwork.jpg|artwork]], but the edit was reverted every time, the reasons given being that it would be [[Special:diff/3070471|inconsistent with the other tour pages which do not feature a gallery]] and that [[Special:diff/3071357|we already have a main gallery to host the images]]--[[Gallery:Mario Kart Tour artwork]]. I find both of these arguments to be flawed. First, images can exist on multiple pages at once and many pieces of artwork have in fact always existed on multiple relevant pages without anyone raising it as a potential issue (see [[:File:SMB Mario Running Artwork.jpg|Mario's running artwork from ''Super Mario Bros.'']], which is simultaneously present on both Mario's [[Mario|article]] and [[Gallery:Mario artwork and scans|artwork gallery]]). Secondly, and as I have previously stated in a [[Special:diff/3070482|revision summary]], "consistency" only regards the way we present a similar type of information between different pages, ''not'' the content itself. If that would be the case, we'd be well on our way to removing anything related to Token Shops from certain tour pages because older tours didn't feature them. I think this strife for consistency is exaggerated in this case and, besides, I doubt anyone would be thrown off by the presence of a singular image gallery in sea of pages that don't usually feature that. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 19:18, November 20, 2020 (EST)
:Well, the [[Gallery:Mario Kart Tour screenshots and course icons|gallery]] page exists as a repository for ''all'' relevant images, in this case, all ''Mario Kart Tour'' screenshots and course icons. Though, if we parallel your example with a racecourse page instead of a tour page, like [[Maple Treeway]], I would agree that the Maple Treeway page's gallery section should contain ''all'' images of Maple Treeway uploaded to the Wiki. What's interesting is that every tour page contains its profiles from the ''Mario Kart Tour'' Twitter, but each profile is accompanied with a screenshot. I would say that including each of those accompanying screenshots on the tour page would make for a convincing argument, and by extension, any relevant artwork. (I would even go a step further and say any screenshots referencing tour-exclusive elements like pipes or spotlight racers are also relevant, since all that information is covered on the tour page.) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 04:50, November 21, 2020 (EST)
::Yeah, [[Maple Treeway]]'s page is an even better example. If galleries don't belong to tour pages because there's already a main gallery, ''then why is this not the case for race course articles''? Talk about inconsistency. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 05:26, November 21, 2020 (EST)
:::I've gone ahead and reverted the edit because the idea of not allowing something that's worth adding and related to a subject makes zero sense to me. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 05:59, November 22, 2020 (EST)
::::If I can find some free time I'll dig through the ''Mario Kart Tour'' Twitter and determine which images are relevant to each particular tour according to caption, and add those in as well. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:01, November 22, 2020 (EST)

== Paid banners section ==

I’ve been adding the Paid banners section on the tour pages that didn’t have them, and I’m not sure if that would be too much for the pages. However, I still think it’ll be necessary to add them for each page. --{{User:Bri-11/sig}}
:The banners are fundamental for the information on the availability (some karts are still unobtainable through means other than the commemorative banners), so thanks for adding them, definitely go on with that project of yours!--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:43, November 23, 2020 (EST)

== R, T and R/T courses ==

It has been inferred that these letters stand for "Reverse", "Trick" and "Reverse/Trick", which is apparent from the nature of the courses they define, but has Nintendo themselves capitalized these words anywhere? The only one I could source in this article is "Trick" ([https://twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1194766898094891008 1], [https://twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1251148410285109248 2]), which seems to have been used as an umbrella term for both T and R/T course variants, making it a vague choice. The in-game FAQs don't help the matter as far as I know. Is there anything useful in the game's newsletter or internal data regarding these terms, or may we just as well use them in their de-capitalized forms? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:58, December 12, 2020 (EST)
:[[List of badges in Mario Kart Tour|The game uses capitalization in the text of the challenges]], so I think it should be kept in this wiki as well.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 04:30, December 14, 2020 (EST)
::These don't appear to refer to course types by their complete names, just their initials (''Earn a score of 8,000 or higher on a T course.'') I'm specifically interested in knowing if the former are formatted with a capital ("Reverse") or not ("reverse"). {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 05:09, December 14, 2020 (EST)
:::I don't think there has ever been an explanation of these initials except for the Trick Tour which is the explanation of the T much like the Extreme Tour in Japan is the explanation of the corresponding X, I think the safest approach would be to just use the initials instead of the full words, explaining in a single place (e.g. the main page) what they refer to.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:01, December 14, 2020 (EST)
::::This [https://twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1180618670793461762 Twitter post] is the closest to official terminology, I think, where there are no capitals. Looking to the Japanese twitter, [https://twitter.com/mariokarttourJP/status/1180648868129595395 this post] specifically mentions "extreme" before listing the concept as "X course"; similarly, [https://twitter.com/mariokarttourJP/status/1180618669082189824 this post] also says "reverse" (albeit in the sense of "the course is reversed") before listing the concept as "R course". I think that since the Japanese terminology is converging onto "reverse", and that it's intuitive, we can still call R courses as "reverse variants" (namely when on that course's page). [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:00, December 14, 2020 (EST)

== New Years 2021 Glider: New or Variant ==

So I'm just curious about this, but is it a little bit of a stretch to call the New Years 2021 glider a new glider? Aside from the obvious "1", the glider shares the same concept and same general shape (again, save for the one number difference) with the New Years 2020 glider, but much like other variants, it's a different color scheme. Personally, I feel like it's a variant of the New Years 2020 glider, but I'd rather not make any changes, as there could be reasons for it to qualify as a new glider over a variant. {{User:Tails777/sig}}23:32, December 16, 2020 (EST)
:I'd heard that variants are counted because they actually share in-game files and/or are grouped into the same folder together. But I don't access the in-game data so I can't confirm anything. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:56, December 17, 2020 (EST)
::We don't have access to the files yet but there's no need: the 3D model is different. In general, we don't use concept to determine variants as far as karts and gliders are concerned, because the variants in these cases share the 3D model and just change the textures applied, to the point that the variants are in the same folder as the original.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:26, December 17, 2020 (EST)
:::Alright then, thanks for the explanation. {{User:Tails777/sig}}00:11, December 18, 2020 (EST)

== "Not available in the Week 1 Pipe" - Special Availability and Regular Availability ==

I noticed the recent edits added a lot of notes about drivers, karts, and/or gliders having special availability such as "X Tour (Week 2 spotlight)" that they are "not available in the Week 1 Pipe". While I was taking this to be assumed, that these tour-exclusive items are only obtainable from their special availabilities during certain tours, i.e. if a tour-exclusive item is available for "X Tour (Week 2 spotlight)", then we'd assume it's not available at any other time in that tour. But I'm thinking that leads to a conundrum, if I'm recalling correctly, items introduced in a tour as a spotlight item for one week, can still be obtained from the other week, e.g. Pauline (Party Time) was Week 1 spotlight for Holiday Tour, but could still be obtained in Week 2 Holiday Tour Pipe.

So I'm thinking we need to delineate these availabilities more, such as by having a "Regular availability" section that lists the "any tour" availabilities of items (including Daily Selects, the main weekly Pipes) and a "Special availability" that clearly delineates if an item has "X Tour (Week 1 non-spotlight, Week 2 spotlight)" kind of availability. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 05:05, December 18, 2020 (EST)
:Well, I proposed this many times, so I can only agree with the column regarding the type of general availability as well as adding the non-spotlight availability. In general, the tour's spotlight items can be obtained in both 100-items pipes, but only in one pipe they are certainly obtained when emptying the pipe. There are also special cases, like the Christmas-themed spotlight items from the 2020 Winter Tour that are available also in the first 100-items pipe of the Rosalina Tour, even though they aren't spotlight in the Rosalina Tour.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:50, December 20, 2020 (EST)

== Expanding the favored and favorite courses page ==

I’m currently thinking on how I would expand the page with the items that unlock courses at level 3 and level 6. For the indicators, I’m slightly questioned if should use astericks or footnote headers. For the locked items, should I include the the favored items to the favorite selection (with their indicators) while leaving them in the original spot? --{{User:Bri-11/sig}}
:I'd add <nowiki><sup>LV3</sup></nowiki> and <nowiki><sup>LV6</sup></nowiki> so it should clearly show the superscript, maybe try and see if it works, I think you should add in the favored courses the ones that then become favorite, maybe if the superscript works you can add another superscript to explain that the course is then upgraded. In the courses page, it is very important to follow a similar approach - tracking which items get upgraded is quite time-consuming so this can be useful information, in my opinion.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 14:26, December 22, 2020 (EST)
::I did it for 3DS Rainbow Road, and a few for 3DS Toad Circuit, but not all of the items, and it worked. I may do the same for the other courses as well. --{{User:Bri-11/sig}}

== Use of present tense ==

Can somebody tell me why past tense verbs [[Special:Diff/3089583|keep]] [[Special:Diff/3089001|getting]] [[Special:Diff/3080554|changed]] to present tense on course pages in sections about '''previous''' tours? It makes no sense to describe the past state of something in present terms (e.g. "''Choco Island <u>appears</u> in the Exploration Tour''"--an in-game event that ran back in July) and it's starting to get annoying with how vehemently this gets reinforced. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 21:00, December 27, 2020 (EST)
:Since present tense is most commonly used on the Wiki, I think they may be defaulting to reverting to present tense. In my opinion, until ''Mario Kart Tour'' settles on some kind of set schedule of recurring, identical tours, we should treat each tour as a one-time event and therefore they should use the past tense. (Technically the concurrent tour should use present tense too, but it makes things easier to just use past tense on that as well.) [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:48, December 28, 2020 (EST)

== Split? ==

So this is now the [[Special:Longpages|second longest]] non-list page on the wiki, and it loads slower than molasses at this point <s>which makes it annoying to patrol edits</s> and it's only going to get worse. I think it's time to start thinking about splitting this off into smaller, more manageable pages. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:35, January 27, 2021 (EST)
:I feel like we could easily split tho challenges to {{fake link|List of Challenges in ''Mario Kart Tour''}}, as there's no immediate need to have that on the main game page. Similarly, we could split off the drivers, karts, and gliders into respective lists. However, no information should be permanently removed from the wiki. In addition, I archive the first 50 messages from this talk page to prevent it from becoming too bloated, similar to what with did with the Mario talk page. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 11:40, January 27, 2021 (EST)
::I definitely feel like there's potentially too many tables and images, such as all those tables just to explain points; they probably shouldn't be on the main page. For tables, if we set them to "collapse" (i.e. we can click to "show" or "hide"), would that decrease loading times? I also feel like we could split off several pages to house these tables specifically, such as maybe "Mario Kart Tour Shop" and "List of hazards, obstacles, and course elements in Mario Kart Tour"? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:51, January 27, 2021 (EST)

== On the naming conventions of new variants and power-up forms ==
Now that we had a few new power-up form and the confirmation that Peachette is considered a power-up form of Toadette as she's put in Team Daisy, we can finally have a look at the naming conventions of the '''new''' power-up forms and variants.

'''Please note that the variants from previous games, such as Red Yoshi or Pink Shy Guy, just bear the name they had in the original game.'''

'''New characters'''

Their naming convention is just

''[Name of character]''

* They always get completely new emblems
* They often become regular drivers, found in every first and second pipe of each tour
* When regular, they are eligible for getting their own cup

'''New power-up forms'''

They follow the general naming convention established in the Mario franchise, so save for special cases like Peachette the naming convention is

''[Name of power-up form] [Name of character]''

* As revealed by Peachette in the Peach vs. Daisy rally, they are considered the same as the original character as far as grouping in team rallies is concerned
* They sometimes get new emblems or at least recolored emblems
* When they have a new or recolored emblem and when they are regular, they are eligible for getting their own cup

'''New variants'''

They follow this naming convention

''[Name of character] ([Name of variant])''

* They are considered the same as the original character as far as the grouping in team rallies is concerned
* As revealed by the Birdos, colored members of the species are now considered variants even if they are different characters
* The colored variants get a recolored emblems, the others very frequently feature the same emblem as the original character
* As suggested by the naming convention, they are not supposed to get their own cup

I think this sums up what we observed so far, based on these observations I introduced the '''(new power-up form)''' term in the driver list.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:49, February 12, 2021 (EST)

:In my opinion, the "power-up form" concept is ignoring the major basis for the variant concept, which is that the variants are using the same model/skeleton as the base character (the example being like Echo Fighters from ''Smash Bros.''). As far as the game is concerned, variants are all separate characters (as explained in the pipes, when they say how each character is delineated by their exact name). However, the reason we didn't separate variants out (besides for keeping the pages tidier) is that there is a clear sharing of assets between variants that new characters do not exhibit. In that sense, [[Peachette]] cannot be a variant of [[Toadette]] because they do not share those assets, and I believe she should count as a new character because all her voices, animations, and emblem are unique. The clearest example of shared assets between variants is when you tap them before the race starts; they all share that animation. Notably, [[Captain Toad]] actually shares all his animations with [[Toad]], even his winning animations, so he's more similar to Toad than Peachette is to Toadette.
:In short, I don't believe the "power-up form" nomenclature is significant because it ignores the concept of '''setting variants by assets''' as opposed to '''setting variants by name'''. (Like how the [[Calico Parafoil]] is not a variant of the [[Parafoil]] since they do not share assets.) Also notably, all power-up forms who were previously considered variants only had recoloured emblems, not new emblems. In my opinion, an entirely unique emblem is grounds for being a wholly new character (as we can see being applied on Captain Toad). [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:11, February 12, 2021 (EST)

I'd like to suggest a new naming convention that will take into account whether the power-up form is variant-like (shares resources, animations, voices, and other assets with the base character, e.g. Penguin Luigi and Fire Rosalina) or character-like (does not necessarily share resources, voices, or other assets, e.g. Peachette or Ice Mario): ''power-up variant'' and ''power-up character''. This way it incorporates the classification of power-up forms (which do not necessarily match the variant naming convention) as well as the basis for classifying variants in the first place (that they share assets with a base character). Are there any dissenting opinions or other feedback? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 16:57, February 19, 2021 (EST)
:While it would be neat to be able to use a simple criterion like we do for the karts and gliders, we simply can't do that for drivers due to how differently are drivers organized: in that sense exclusively the colored variants are actual variants, as they reside in the same folder and apply a texture swap to the character. Even the variants flagged as such in the game stay in a different folder with different assets, most animations files of variants are completely different even when the animation is supposed to be the same, and often the voice clips are different as well, an example being Wintertime Peach saying "Wintertime!" when selected. I think we should rather focus on additional aspects stemming from how the game handles them: what I wrote above tries to start from there, now that we have more power-up forms showing us how they are handled compared to the openly stated variants. In my opinion Peachette being put in Team Daisy despite the clear connection with Peach strongly suggests how she's still seen as a Toadette form, which she effectively is. Of course, there's no perfect approach, and we can revert to just putting power-up forms and variants together if there's a consensus on that, it's just that with power-up forms following different naming conventions and team rallies being character-based I thought that it might have been useful to distinguish these two types of variants in the game, while clarifying in the process the reason behind the otherwise hard to explain placement of Peachette in Team Daisy.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:57, February 19, 2021 (EST)
::That's the thing, right, is that the game effectively treats variants as separate characters. In order to simplify that approach, we came up with the variant approach, which was originally based on the relative sharing of assets between Mario and Mario (Musician) (versus, say, Metal Mario or Dry Bowser, who do not share the same range of assets, if at all). The most consistent one I've seen (but cannot yet confirm applies to all "variants") is the animation the character performs when performing a perfect rocket start (hold down from 2, then release at "go") - from what I've seen, Rosalina shares it with Rosalina (Aurora), while characters as similar as Hammer Bro and relatives all have a unique one. This isn't to say variants can't have unique attributes, like trick animations for Mario (Chef), winning animations for Mario (Musician), and voice lines for Peach (Wintertime). But dressing down a character with wholly unique assets into a power-up form is just inconsistent when we list Captain Toad as new, despite sharing almost all of his animations with Toad. It's true that team rallies place the same character with different forms into the same team, but that applies to the baby forms as well, who aren't necessarily power-up forms. After all, a "new character" introduced to the series is based on whether they've appeared in the series before, but these variants are essentially reusing assets from existing characters, hence their newness becomes murky.
::There's a good analogy in the Echo Fighters from ''Super Smash Bros.'' Daisy is new to the series in ''Ultimate'', but she is not considered a fully-fledged fighter because she still shares Peach's moveset - she is built on existing assets from Peach. But that isn't to say that characters who shared assets can't be their own figher, as seen in the case of the ''Melee'' clones all being their own fighter. Essentially, the variants are based on reusing particular assets (like emblems or the rocket start animation), hence why they don't sort out as a wholly new character. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:29, February 19, 2021 (EST)
:::For the record, Captain Toad shouldn't be considered a variant of Toad regardless of any shared assets since Captain Toad is confirmed to be a separate character. I prefer the "new power-up form" distinction since the old system had quirks like Ice Mario being considered a new driver outright when he really shouldn't have been. The old organization system relied way too much on digging into the files to determine exactly what a "variant" is which in some cases caused conflicts with what our eyes and common sense should have told us. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 20:37, February 21, 2021 (EST)
::::If that's the case, then Birdos and Yoshis shouldn't be considered variants? And with Penguin Yellow Toad being added, would we have called him a "new character" instead of a "new variant"? I can't stress enough that we should not be labelling variants because they are the same character in-universe, but because the "new character" (the variant) is similar enough to the existing character that they don't constitute a wholly new character. Common sense tells us that if a "character" can fit as a costume swap, they are a variant. (Similarly, Peachette cannot be a costume swap of Toadette, hence "new power-up character" terminology). There is enough wiggle room with the "power-up character/variant" terminology I'm proposing that we could still label Captain Toad as a "new power-up character". [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 21:38, February 21, 2021 (EST)
:::::We can't go on like that exactly because of that Captain Toad case that showed that the developers often reuse assets regardless of the status of the character introduced - let's not make the mistake of not listening Nintendo on him being a unique character and likening him to Toadette (Explorer)! -, but much more importantly because we now have different data than at the beginning: now we know that the developers use a specific labeling for variants, and so far they also showed that even if a variant is permanently in the pipes and has an emblem recolor, they still don't get their own cup. Indeed, we should first and foremost label as variant the characters that were labeled as such by the developers. However, many editors were still labeling similar forms as variants as well even though they didn't have the variant labeling, they had a unique emblem and even their own cup, and while I wanted to correct this, the Peach vs. Daisy Tour happened and showed that this "mistake" had some merit: the forms of characters are indeed grouped with the characters in groupings like the ones seen in this tour. It's not a matter of finding the groupings, but rather the discovery of the implication that forms lead to grouping, the other direction of the implication. This is why I introduced the ''power-up form'' term: on one hand it makes life easier for the other editors who can clearly see when to actually use the ''new variant'' term, on the other it acknowledges these groupings that in the case of Peachette became pretty apparent. Since she has a new emblem, Peachette can be considered a new character like Ice Mario and both get their own cups, but at the same time they aren't necesarily as independent as Nabbit can be when it comes to groupings. Lastly, a clarification on the term used: at the moment new baby forms haven't been introduced, so I used a more specific term as it's again clearer than a generic ''new form'' term, of course if new babies pop up and they are confirmed to be grouped with the main characters, the ''new form'' term will be used. We can also use it right now, or we can just remove the ''new form'' terms altogether and only go with the ''new variant'' term applied to the characters clearly labeled as such; I still think that for editors this term can come in handy.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:06, February 22, 2021 (EST)
::::::Is there a way to compromise on the situation, such as having "new power-up form"/"new power-up character"? This way, we can retain the information of characters being grouped together in Team Rallies ("power-up") as well as indicating when the character is relatively a wholly new character (like Peachette) versus when they are more variant-like (like Penguin Luigi)? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 17:52, February 22, 2021 (EST)
:::::::As I said above, the developer don't put the same amount of work into the drivers for various reasons, making these kinds of criteria problematic. However there is something that might help you in highlighting the new power-up forms on which the developers worked more: the cups! Indeed, the additional work poured into Peachette and Ice Mario resulted in them earning a different emblem and a cup. Having had a cup is relevant gameplay-wise as it means that from time to time the driver will get a boost in the normal and favored courses, but at the moment we aren't using a mark to highlight the driver who received a cup. Adding such a mark would finally set Peachette and Ice Mario apart from new forms who will likely never receive a cup like Penguin Luigi or Cat Toad.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:30, February 22, 2021 (EST)
:::::::As the game has been ongoing, I suppose with our ever-developing criteria that a "power-up form" can be considered a separate character if they receive a cup, in which case we can label them a "new power-up character"? If so, then shall I move to make that edit? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 21:44, February 22, 2021 (EST)
::::::::I find that term a bit awkward, as honestly it's more a reinterpretation on our side that some new power-up forms are more character-y than others in order to solve our problem of counting and listing the new characters introduced in each game. Maybe we can find a better term, but I'd rather focus on finding a simple yet effective way to highlight the drivers who received a cup so far. If we'll do it well I think that readers will get the same message they'd get if we considered some high-effort new power-up forms as brand new characters.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 22:22, February 22, 2021 (EST)

I have a good news and a bad news:

the good news is that the developers themselves are starting to use the ''variant'' term:

'''Throwback Drivers Pipe'''
<blockquote>
You can get variants of well-known

characters like Mario (Musician) and

Peach (Vacation)! Tap Details to

learn more.
</blockquote>
'''New Year's 2021 Tour second pipe'''
<blockquote>
Celebrating the New Year! High-End

Appearance Rate at 12%! Nine Variants

of Mario Are in the Spotlight!
</blockquote>
'''Berlin Tour second pipe'''
<blockquote>
The Second Pipe Is Here!

Three High-End Variants of

Luigi Are Here!
</blockquote>

The bad news is that none of the pipes in which the ''variant'' term was used featured Ice Mario or Peachette, not allowing us to know their official status. Still, due to the wiki policy I already updated ''power-up form'' to ''power-up variant'' to reflect the term used while highlighting how the power-up forms still get a different treatment in some cases. We can also just call all of them ''variants'' to more closely follow the in-game text, but we can't treat Ice Mario and Peachette differently until we get a confirmation of their status by the in-game text itself.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 12:45, March 12, 2021 (EST)
:Well, a little update: [https://www.reddit.com/r/MarioKartTour/comments/m6w6lm/for_the_people_wondering_yes_both_the_cupbearing/ the current challenges that must be cleared using Mario can be cleared using both Ice Mario and Metal Mario], so both are considered to be Mario and not separate characters.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:22, March 17, 2021 (EDT)
::And according to one of those comments, Baby Mario doesn't count. So I suppose Metal Mario and Ice Mario can be considered alternate "forms" of (vanilla) Mario. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:16, March 17, 2021 (EDT)

Okay, so I don't believe that Peachette should be classified as a variant of Toadette. Sure, Peachette is a power-up form of Toadette, but I personally think that variants refers to a character in a different outfit or costume or something of the sort. Peachette has her own unique base model, voice lines, and other stuff, and isn't just some outfit of Toadette. The babies are counted as unique characters for the same reason; they are still the same character as their adult form, but look completely different. Plus, the babies sometimes even get their own outfits. If we get down to it, all costumes of a character branch from the same base model, with only a few exceptions like Mario (SNES). Oh, and as for Ice Mario, he should be considered a variant of Metal Mario or Mario, but not a unique character. {{User:SuperGarfieldWorld/sig}} 12:24 PM, 4/2/2021 (EST)
:With her being grouped with Toadette and not Peach in the Peach vs. Daisy Tour we can't be sure about Peachette either. If we get a confirmation that Peachette is considered a brand new character we'll change her designation, but the in-game material so far rather suggested otherwise.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:22, April 2, 2021 (EDT)
::To clarify, Peachette and Ice Mario are not being considered as variants, but alternate power-up forms. What this means exactly, and whether there's any differentiation between power-up variants and power-up characters, is yet to be seen. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:48, April 2, 2021 (EDT)
:::Indeed, ''Mario Kart Tour'' has a different approach to drivers in general: not only many are explicitly flagged as variants through the use of brackets, the challenges also clearly showed that what we previously considered separate characters (Mario and Metal Mario) aren't really separate. It's more complex but understandable - effectively with ''Mario Kart 8'' the roster started having multiple forms of Peach and Mario so a new approach to the characters was to be expected, especially in a game where variants and forms are so represented.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:16, April 2, 2021 (EDT)
::::Metal Mario remains split due to a proposal ([[Talk:Metal Mario (character)#Permission to merge Metal Luigi on this article?|misunderstanding]] notwithstanding). The new challenge info warrants another merge proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:06, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

== The Comet Tail as a variant of its unreleased kart ==

I've been thinking about this for the longest, and it's with the Comet Tail. I noticed that the unused texture of the kart, which was first found in the files during the Vancouver Tour, but was removed in the version 2.0.0 update, may have been the original texture of the kart, since its variant was released first, similar to how the Gilded Prancer, Dasher II and Pirate Sushi Racer were released before their original counterparts. I feel like it would be better if we consider it a variant. --{{User:Bri-11/sig}} 19:07, February 21, 2021 (EST)
:I say that until the original version is released, let's leave the Comet Tail as the "new kart". The original version is not a kart from a previous game that it could be a variant of, and since they removed it there's even a chance it never gets released. But if that original kart gets released, then I say it's probably fair to change the Comet Tail to be the variant. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 21:38, February 21, 2021 (EST)

== Course icons in galleries ==
While this doesn't quite relate to this article per se, it does involve our coverage of the game, and I couldn't think of a better place to put it, so here we go. Does anyone else think the inclusion of the course icons in the galleries for individual characters is getting excessive? Take [[Gallery:Waluigi#Sprites and models|my main man Waluigi]] as an example. He only has 1 variant in the game as of now, but he has ''18'' MKT course icons in his gallery. These images aren't illustrating anything new about the character, it's just the same artwork pasted over a different course. We don't pile every single in-game image that happens to have a character in it into their gallery, so why should this be any different? I suggest limiting it to just 1 course icon per variant. Whether it would be a course that goes with the character well (i.e. Waluigi Pinball for Waluigi, London Loop for his Bus Driver variant) or just on a first come first serve basis is up for discussion, but something really needs to be done about this. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 12:08, March 3, 2021 (EST)
:To my understanding, ''technically'' a subject's gallery should include every image pertaining to that subject; we're just behind on getting every image into the gallery. However, I agree that the presence of the course icons is rather excessive. Perhaps it's possible to separate them out from the general "Sprites and models" section, like how we've started including an "Emblems" sub-section? I could also see merit in making a dedicated gallery for ''MKT'' course icons/thumbnails (no screenshots), and they would only appear in there and not in other galleries; although the exact criteria for that exclusion would be somewhat arbitrary, I'd like to hear others weigh in on our possible options. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 17:18, March 3, 2021 (EST)
::Old reply but a gallery is always going to be choosy on what images to feature. This is true for character galleries (which are my focus here). We do generally have all artwork but sprites and screenshots, no, we already do pick a few out of the many sprites/animations/screenshots featuring a character. The course thumbnails are just repetitive content, with premade assets that we already have in other parts/pages of the gallery. Anyhow, I don't know what to do with the main gallery page, but the course icons in the character/course pages are excessive. Waluigi Time's man's is already excessive but my boy Mario is the same thing but way worse. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 17:48, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
:::Thanks for reviving this important discussion I had missed. As far as I'm concerned, the "course with character" thumbnails only make sense in the tour pages; in the character galleries, the character artwork that is then reused in all the thumbnails is more than enough, those thumbnails simply don't add anything to that artwork as far as the character is concerned. What makes sense to cover instead is the Bonus Challenges' thumbnails, that usually feature a screenshot of the challenge from a peculiar camera angle and thus can actually add something worth covering as far as the character is concerned.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:40, October 23, 2021 (EDT)
::::All of the gallery pages have been taken care of, there may still be some on pages that don't have enough images for their galleries to be split though. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:04, November 10, 2021 (EST)

==Split drivers and karts, gliders, and wheels from this page==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|10-0-0-0|Split both lists}}
Alright, time to tackle this behemoth. This is currently the second longest non-list article on the wiki surpassed only by Bowser's article, loading takes a long time, and with how often this game gets updated, it's just going to keep getting worse. I suggest starting by splitting off the sections that are currently the longest and still growing, drivers, karts, and gliders (and tires too, why not). This would create two new articles, "List of drivers in ''Mario Kart Tour''" and "List of karts, gliders, and tires in ''Mario Kart Tour''". I've also included options to split only one or the other, if you disagree with the handling of the karts and related items or if you just think only one of them should be split for some reason. And of course there's always the option to split nothing if you feel so inclined.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 22, 2021, 23:59 GMT

===Split both===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} I think the guy who proposed this has some pretty good ideas.
#{{User|Matthew aka Mario}} Let's do it!
#{{User|RHG1951}} Per proposal.
#{{User|MarioComix}} Per proposal; also consider either gallery or table of head icons to remain in main page section, and potential to split Drivers/Karts/Gliders
#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Duckfan77}} Per proposal.
#{{User|GloverMist}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Hewer}} I would rather have the gliders be separate from the karts but for now I'll vote for this option since it is the closest one to that.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.

===Split List of drivers in ''Mario Kart Tour'' only===

===Split List of karts, gliders, and tires in ''Mario Kart Tour'' only===

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
I think splitting it is fine and dandy, as it gives us room to cover details pertaining to these in more depth (like specific availabilities both Tour-exclusive and "regular", such as in Pipes). I'm just brainstorming how the section will look on the main page. I suppose we can keep the opening paragraph for each. My main concern is the Drivers section, it would just feel odd to not mention who's playable in the game on the main page - might just be me, though. I'm thinking we could have a small table that would list "Returning Drivers" and "New Drivers" and we could use their head icons just to give a brief idea of who's in the game without needing to go to the list page itself? Though for karts, gliders, and tires, I'm thinking the opening paragraph could be enough. We could just expand it to mention how karts and gliders affect the points system (e.g. karts give bonus points multipliers, gliders increase combo time). Any thoughts? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:50, March 8, 2021 (EST)
:Since there already is an image of the entire roster in the Drivers section, we could probably make that larger for better visibility and potentially move it. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 18:56, March 8, 2021 (EST)
::Sounds good to me. You mean like [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=User:7feetunder/sandbox&oldid=3147819#Drivers this]? {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 01:33, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:::Yeah, that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:39, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:I second the "table of head icons" idea. That allows us to link each individual driver to their corresponding wiki page. --[[User:Scepthan|Scepthan]] ([[User talk:Scepthan|talk]]) 02:51, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:::The image would be best if we can link each Driver to their page (kind of like how the RPG game maps can link to different locations). But my concern is that the Drivers list image would need to be updated every tour and in a relatively timely manner, which it hasn't been doing so far, unless someone would like to step up to that responsibility. So the table of head icons would be easier to keep up-to-date. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 03:56, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:I have a suggestion. Drivers, karts and gliders sections can be formatted like a gallery. It's detailed information (like their special availability, traits) can be added to their driver/kart/glider profiles and statistic page or section, alongside the favourite/favoured course info. - {{User:Infinite8/sig}} 04:58, March 9, 2021 (EST)
::The gallery idea is good, but the problem with shunting away all the information into each page's statistics section is that it will be hard to retrieve that information comparatively, e.g. someone wants to know which of their drivers qualifies as having short sleeves, now they'd have to check every single Profiles and statistics page individually to find that. I think that splitting off the current lists into separate pages retains that accessibility. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 16:26, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:::There's [[List of badges in Mario Kart Tour#Character attributes|the badges page]] with most of the traits info in one section. - {{User:Infinite8/sig}} 02:36, March 10, 2021 (EST)
::::Well, I never knew that table existed. I'm guessing we should link to that in the main page's Drivers section once the list gets split off/simplified. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 18:31, March 10, 2021 (EST)

Why there isn't the option to make separate pages for each main category (driver, kart and glider)? I find this aspect of the current proposal a bit odd, especially considering how there are more karts than drivers, and the trend is to make the gap even wider. By the way, I didn't mention the tires as they have no gameplay relevance and are tied to karts, so they can rather be added to a column of the kart table if a page dedicated to them would be overkill.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:52, March 9, 2021 (EST)
:Actually, you make a good point. I think the best course of action is to split Drivers, Karts, and Gliders each into their own list. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 16:26, March 9, 2021 (EST)
::I anticipated this to be brought up while making the proposal, but in the interest of simplicity I thought it would be best to limit it to only these two pages for now. I grouped the karts and gliders together because they're both part of the "kart" aspect of the game, and added tires as well because while that topic isn't nearly as large or expanding as fast as the others, it felt like it made more sense to have them on the kart article than all alone on the main page. This is mostly intended as a starting point, the karts and gliders can either be split further with another TPP down the line, or you can opt to vote for only splitting the drivers for now and the karts and gliders can be handled later (which is half of why I included the options to only split one or the other, the other half being in case of general objections against splitting at all for some reason). --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 16:49, March 9, 2021 (EST)

== Now that the Split has Occurred ==

First, I think that the tires section can be removed, and just added as a note within the karts section (since the tires are tied to each kart), and even if/when the gliders are split out from that other list, the karts and tires were likely to stay on one page. More importantly, the issue I take with using the drivers list screenshot (as opposed to a table of head icons) is that the screenshot has not been consistently updated with each tour. If someone were to commit to taking this on and updating it each tour, then I think that's fine to use the screenshot. But if no one is able to, I think it would be better to use a table since that's easier to update with each tour. (The screenshot could potentially be moved to the drivers list page to give a rough overview of all the characters in the game without needing to scroll through the entire list.) As it stands at the time of writing, this screenshot has been out-of-date for ''6 weeks''. Imagine if our coverage for a newly-released game was also out-of-date for 6 weeks. I think it's important that the main page and preview of the drivers list on that main page should be accurate and up-to-date, so that at least if people don't want to go to the full drivers list page they can get the full picture of who's available. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 16:17, March 23, 2021 (EDT)

:I've been keeping a psd document of the drivers image and it does takes a lot of time to update. Six weeks is condensed into three tours, and on average that's only three drivers out of more than one hundred. I feel a table would be more difficult to format as the roster gets larger. Now that the section has been split off I see why it's more important to have an up-to-date image, so I'll try and have it updated every tour from now on.

:{{User:Shokora/sig}} 22:54, March 23, 2021 (EDT)

::Alright then, thanks for your efforts! I agree that the image would look better than a table, so as long as it's still practical then let's stick with that. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 00:20, March 24, 2021 (EDT)

:::Cool!

:::{{User:Shokora/sig}} 03:57, March 24, 2021 (EDT)

== Remove “Notes” sections on tour pages ==

{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|10-4-0|remove}}
;! NEW OPTION ADDED !

[[Ninja Tour#Notes]]

<blockquote>
The Ninja Tour reuses the Wario Cup's bonus challenge from the 2019 Winter Tour for this tour's Hammer Bro Cup, the Bowser Jr. Cup and Baby Rosalina Cup's bonus challenges from the Valentine's Tour for this tour's Toadette Cup and Pauline Cup (although the 1-star and 3-star requirements for the latter were changed from 5 and 14 to 6 and 13), the Rosalina Cup's bonus challenge from the Vancouver Tour for this tour's Larry Cup (although the 1-star, 2-star, and 3-star requirements were all increased from 1:50.00, 1:28.00, and 1:16.00 to 1:35.00, 1:20.00, and 1:14.00), the Donkey Kong Cup's bonus challenge from the Mario Bros. Tour for this tour's Rosalina Cup, the Toad Cup's bonus challenge from the Hammer Bro Tour for this tour's Waluigi Cup, the Dry Bones Cup's bonus challenge from the Marine Tour for this tour's Roy Cup (although the 3-star requirement was increased from 750 to 800), and the Roy Cup's bonus challenge from the Los Angeles Tour for this tour's Wario Cup.
</blockquote>

The above paragraph is cluttered, hard to follow, and, more than anything, redundant: we already have pages for each bonus challenge listing their tour appearances as well as the objectives set in different iterations. On game articles, we rarely if ever mention the previous appearances of each character, enemy, object, or entity that appears in a game. I don’t see why bonus challenges should receive a different treatment, especially at this point in the game’s lifespan when they are bound to be recycled often enough that this is not really worth an express mention.

<s>If the majority votes to instead keep these notes, then it stands to reason that they need some heavy rewriting.</s>

At the suggestion of {{User|Lemon Meringue}}, I decided to add an option to keep the notes, but reorganise them as footnotes. While keeping them would run counter to the parallel that entities appearing and changing between games is not always relevant to one particular game, I could see some importance in expressly mentioning which bonus challenge appeared previously and which changes occured in it since this happens across events within one game.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Koopa con Carne}}<br>
'''Deadline''': April 29, 2021, 23:59 GMT

====Remove====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Primary choice.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Scepthan}} Per proposal.
#{{User|MarioComix}} Per proposal. I suppose we should at least add a footnote or asterisk to indicate which challenges were reused, and potentially if the Grand Star criteria was changed too (* reused, ** reused and new criteria). I don't think it's necessary to explain how the criteria was changed, not only do we have previous tours archived so that one could just go back and check them, but the exact changes wouldn't really serve a purpose.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Lemon Meringue}} Even if its get removed, as least a small indicator should be used for a bonus challenge if its reused from a previous tour. See my comment below for more information.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I agree with adding a minor indicator. It really doesn't need a confusing paragraph to note that it's reused.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} If the outcome of [[Template talk:Level infobox#"Notes"|this proposal]] is anything to go by...
#{{user|Mario jc}} Per proposal; something about them should have been done given how confusing they've gotten.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal.

====Keep, but reorganise as footnotes====
#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} Secondary choice.
#{{User|Lemon Meringue}} My second and preferred choice, as I stated below.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Less invasive, but still easier to find than having to go to the respective Bonus Challenge page.

====Keep unchanged====

====Comments====
I would like to note that these sections were added before the challenge pages were created, so they did ''originally'' serve a purpose (albeit it a pretty trivial one). --[[User:Scepthan|Scepthan]] ([[User talk:Scepthan|talk]]) 13:51, April 15, 2021 (EDT)

In the earliest tours that reused bonus challenges, there were a total of a least 3 or 4 bonus challenges in each tour. However, by the Berlin Tour, there were more bonus challenges that were reused from previous tours than the new bonus challenges, with most of them having the Grand Star requirements changed. So while I support to remove the "Notes" section, it should not be removed completely. Instead, put a small "foot-note" template to the right of the bonus challenge if that challenge is reused from a previous tour. This was done four months ago but I thought we only use that template for tour pages if its contains a small error or a character appearing in a bonus challenge before becoming playable in a later tour, so I changed it back. After I saw this proposal (and after I found that the "Notes" section nowadays can be confusion to read, especially in recent tours), I do think this should be removed but at least, a small indicator should be use in place if it pass. {{User:Lemon Meringue/sig}} 19:23, April 15, 2021 (EDT)
:I think that's reasonable. I added another option in the proposal to reflect what you said. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:29, April 15, 2021 (EDT)

== Inconsistency with Course Galleries ==
This is more of an issue with the course pages, but I've put this here because this is a central hub.

I recently noticed when I was on [[Sydney Sprint]] that the first course icon picture for the normal course indicates the character in the picture, even though this is not the case for Reverse, Trick, or Reverse/Trick variants (the first picture does not list the character, but later pictures do). However, on some other course pages, such as [[Mario Circuit (3DS)]], there's a picture of the normal course without a character indicator. There seems to be an issue with consistency across course pages. Any idea what should be done regarding this? [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 12:12, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

:It has always bugged me that we do this; I would vote for adding the character's name to all course icon descriptions. A slightly deeper and more difficult issue to fix is the fact that the image filenames are somewhat inconsistent as well: the first character to ever appear on a course icon is deemed the "default character" and not given a ''_CharacterName'' suffix on the end of the filename, while all future drivers that appear on that same course icon do get a suffix. This has been a somewhat annoying issue for me when, for example, I'm trying to add an old track to a new tour; I'll use the ''TrackName_CharacterName'' format, only to find out that the image doesn't render because the character is in fact the "default" on that course according to the wiki. (For example, ''[[:File:MKT_Icon_DKPassRDS_BabyPeach.png]]'' doesn't work, because the file is listed under ''[[:File:MKT_Icon_DKPassRDS.png]]''.) I don't know of any situations in which we would truly actually ''need'' a "default character" (correct me if I'm wrong), but so as not to break everything, a compromise would be to take each default course icon and reupload the same image but with the character suffix added to the filename. --[[User:Scepthan|Scepthan]] ([[User talk:Scepthan|talk]]) 20:28, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

::Yeah, I totally get that. For instance, Dry Bones is considered "default" for [[Cheep Cheep Lagoon (3DS)|3DS Cheep Cheep Lagoon T]] because he was the first one for that course, but in reality he's only a favored character that got boosted to favorite in that instance. I'd certainly consider setting up a proposal for this, but I reckon it would have to be two-fold if we also consider file names. [[User:BMfan08|BMfan08]] ([[User talk:BMfan08|talk]]) 23:38, April 21, 2021 (EDT)

== "Ninth Mainline Game" ==
Here's a link to the Japanese [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/archives/ Mario Portal]. If you click [https://i.imgur.com/6mdsWJY.png here] into the ''Mario Kart'' series, it lists all the ''Mario Kart'' games excluding the arcade installments, including ''Tour'' and ''Live: Home Circuit''. For comparison, its page on the ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' series includes all of our ''Super Mario'' games plus ''Super Mario Bros. 35'', its ''[[Mario Party (series)|Mario Party]]'' page includes every installment without the arcade games, and its ''[[Mario Tennis (series)|Mario Tennis]]'' page includes all the Camelot-developed games. If our ''Super Mario'' page is acknowledging games like ''Maker'' and ''Run'', then for consistency we should be acknowledging ''Tour'' and ''Live: Home Circuit'', unless someone has better evidence against it, or would like to arbitrarily draw the line between which games "count" as mainline and which as spin-offs, and disregard the Mario Portal entirely. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:15, May 5, 2021 (EDT)

Most people don't consider Tour to be a mainline title, and most people don't consider [[Super Mario Run]] to be a main series Mario title. I don't think Nintendo considers them to be main titles either, as several ports are listed on that page, one of them being [[Mario Kart 8 Deluxe]], which we don't have listed as main series. There are many many differences between Tour and Run the main games, too many for me to list here. I propose we vote on them being spin-offs. [[User:Polterpup|Polterpup]] ([[User talk:Polterpup|talk]]) 13:10, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:That just seems a bit arbitrary, we should really be doing things by how Nintendo handles them rather than what fans think of them. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 13:17, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:: I'm not going just based on what the fans think. If Tour and Run are main series, then 8 Deluxe, [[New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe]], and [[Super Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury]] should be listed as main titles based on this page. Besides, does the page specifically state these are main titles? [[User:Polterpup|Polterpup]] ([[User talk:Polterpup|talk]]) 13:27, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:::Those are re-releases of past games, so no they shouldn't really. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 13:35, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
::::What about Home Circuit then? [[User:Polterpup|Polterpup]] ([[User talk:Polterpup|talk]]) 13:43, May 7, 2021 (EDT)

If Mario Kart Tour can be considered mainline, then all the arcades, MK8DX and Home Circuit should be mainline too! [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 13:59, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:MK8DX definitely shouldn't because like I said it's a straight port of a past game. Mario Kart Tour is a new game so it can be. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 14:06, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
::thank you for ignoring the other ones just so u can keep defending ur point [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 14:07, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:::I'm not sure what to think about those ones actually. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 14:10, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
::::As I said in the page linked above, the arcade games are ''not'' listed on the series page, likely because they're all developed by 3rd-party studios. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 17:47, May 7, 2021 (EDT)

Regarding re-releases, they are re-releases of main games, hence why they're listed on the series page (and also to drive sales of many of these being recent games). We list them as ports/remakes because they're not wholly brand-new games. The question we need to consider is whether we follow the Mario Portal, since our own ''[[Super Mario (series)|Super Mario]]'' page is doing so, in which case we need to acknowledge ''Live: Home Circuit'' as a main title, or we need to start drawing our own boundaries and give concrete reasons as to why we are following those lines rather than Nintendo's. For ports/remakes, that's a concrete enough line. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 17:47, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:We're in troubles for sure, the presence of ''Super Mario Bros. 35'' and ''Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit'' in ''Mario Portal'' calls into question what exactly is listed in these lists to begin with. But I don't think any criteria will ever be good enough to determine the main series games, we'll have to rely on the content of the next home console game to know. 
:As far as what ''Mario Kart Tour'' currently is, it's anybody's guess. I can only provide the insight of the internal data, according to which ''Mario Kart Tour'' is being used to add assets and features to the next home console games - all its drivers, karts and gliders are compatible with the ''Mario Kart 7'' engine games like ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'', [[Talk:Mario_Kart_Tour/Archive_1#The_internal_grouping_of_the_courses|all its courses follow the naming conventions of the ''Mario Kart 8'' team and the new courses even have a ''mob'' main series platform code]] (by the way, Merry Mountain and Ninja Hideaway are internally known as ''gmob_hillclimb'' and ''gmob_ninjamansion'', again consistent with the names of the ''Mario Kart 8'' new courses such as ''Gu_SnowMountain'' and ''Gu_HorrorHouse''), they even worked the first year to finally implement half-pipes into the ''Mario Kart 7'' engine games, delaying Battle Mode that only now is in the works, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrvZJebhdi0 with the main driving mechanics finally being functional]. Basically, it's a development platform for the console games.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:37, May 7, 2021 (EDT)

I think the reality we have to face is that Nintendo is clearly willing to stretch the boundaries of what constitutes being part of a series. Home Circuit and to a lesser extent Tour are clearly oddballs, just as Run, the Maker games, and 35 are for the main series. Just because the gameplay doesn't match previous titles, that doesn't necessarily mean it's not part of the series, especially if Nintendo considers it to be that way. Super Mario 64 was a much bigger deviation from the 2D platformers, but few people would suggest splitting our coverage of the main series into (at least) two. I see no reason to disregard Nintendo's official material just because the game doesn't meet arbitrary fanmade standards.

For what it's worth, I also think remakes/ports should be considered mainline titles of the series they belong to, barring rare cases like Super Mario Advance where it essentially becomes a spinoff series of its own. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:53, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:I'm still not sure about putting re-releases within main game lists in series articles, I really do think they're the sort of thing that's better off with their own list. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 20:12, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
::Yeah, I think that ports/remakes can be separated since there's a pretty robust criteria (the game is re-release of an old game) and it also provides information to separate out fully new games from re-releases of games. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 22:20, May 7, 2021 (EDT)

Well, with the revelation of MK8 DLC, Nintendo officially aknowledged MKT as the mainline game, by putting it next to other mainline games. So technically should count as the ninth mainline game after all, isn't it? [[User:Piotrek1113|Piotrek1113]] ([[User talk:Piotrek1113|talk]]) 20:42, February 9, 2022 (EST)
:In my opinion, the system we're currently using is just better for us. While the case of ''Mario Kart Tour'' might be "closed" after the Nintendo Direct's video, there are still debatable entries like ''Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit'', and in general we really can't just wait months or years for Nintendo to release clarifying videos for every entry that deviates from the usual formula due to the platform on which it is released.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:13, February 10, 2022 (EST)

== remove unrelated source ==

nowhere in the source for "ninth mainline game" does it actually say it's the ninth mainline game, making it redundant. remove it immediately, stop reversing it, and find an actually related source!!! [[Special:Contributions/86.149.20.4|86.149.20.4]] 19:11, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:It lists it alongside the other main series games. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:44, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
::it also lists mario kart live, which anyone with half a brain can tell is not mainline. [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:06, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::just because it's listed doesn't mean it's mainline, its just a list of mario games, theres no rules to which games are and are not listed. super mario run is listed that must mean its the precursor to odyssey then! [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:11, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::Please make sure you log into your RSM account when editing. Staff members can check which users are on which IP addresses. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 19:48, May 7, 2021 (EDT)
:::. [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:06, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::. [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:12, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::i cant be bothered to keep acting toxic im going lmao [[User:RSM|RSM]] ([[User talk:RSM|talk]]) 08:14, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::Despite the juvenile toxicity of this user, he has a point: the portal page also lists Mario Kart Live as a "main entry" and I don't think should be used as a definitive source on what constitutes as a "mainline" game (the source likely just lists titles as they are released). I've removed the definitive statement, I simply left that it's a mobile entry in the Mario Kart series and left it as that; I also got rid of what numbered game it is because honestly, the Mario Kart series is huge and still growing to the point where pointing out what chronological release overall it is starts to get irrelevant. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 16:47, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::Honestly, either you do that for the other games as well or it is bias. I'm very fine with doing an anti-gacha campaign and devaluing ''Mario Kart Tour'', but we have to be honest about it, not pretending to use other reasonings that then are exclusively applied against one game that happens to exploit advanced techniques to make people spend fortunes.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:32, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::::The same should probably be done with the Super Mario series game articles as well. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 18:39, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::And I agree with that. Maybe with 8 and 7 as an exception so it explains the reasoning behind their name but I'm all for removing "Odyssey is the 5th game in the main series" because I still firmly believe it's poorly defined. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:45, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::Also, I prefer you don't impunge my motives for writing that comment: nowhere did I mention gacha or the exploitation. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 18:51, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::(ec) I don't think Ray Trace is arguing this just because she personally dislikes Mario Kart Tour. It's pretty bizarre to imply this. I do think the bit about it being like the 12th mainline entry in the series is just irrelevant bit, like saying it's the 392nd entry overall in the Mario series. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:53, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::I apologize if the motivation was different, but the change was applied exclusively to this page, and this needs to be fixed one way or the other. It's too biased right now.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 19:35, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::I think the word "bias" is a bit strong here, but I am making those changes now. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 19:44, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::With Mario Kart 7 & 8, I changed it to "console installment" since that explains why they are named as such, and just removed the mentions of the arcade games. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 19:54, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::I think "console installments" is a very good approach indeed, it finally relieves us from stating what is a main game and what is not. We can easily determine that too. Thanks for solving this issue, and sorry to all the people I might or outright have offended with my words and implications.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:18, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::Apology accepted. I'm fully aware of my biases and I also apologize if I come across as such. {{User:Ray Trace/sig}} 21:23, May 8, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::: Console installments is a good idea. I updated [[Mario Kart (series)]] to reflect this. [[User:Polterpup|Polterpup]] ([[User talk:Polterpup|talk]]) 13:12, May 9, 2021 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::Going to be honest, I don't see how this terminology improves the situation. If anything, it makes it even more unclear why Deluxe and Home Circuit aren't included since those are also console games. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:31, May 9, 2021 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::In terms of why ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' is in a separate section, it's just that we chose to have separate sections for remakes in all the other series pages, so it's for consistency - we can discuss the removal of the section if you think it is confusing. As far as ''Mario Kart Live: Home Circuit goes'', I changed the name of the section to ''Others'', as it is not just a console game: it uses physical RC cars which are what is actually controlled by the game. While the game is played on the Switch, it is also a physical game. Again, this placement can be discussed as well.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 15:06, May 9, 2021 (EDT)
Either we wait for a "Mario Kart 11" to show up, or we include every instance as the next main line title. If anything, ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' could be considered the 9th title per release date, making ''Tour'' the 10th and ''Live'' the 11th. Additionally, we may not get another numbered title in the future, keeping in mind that previous installments didn't have a proper numbering until ''Mario Kart 7''. It is ''very'' possible that ''Tour'' and ''Live'' are "mainline" installments of the spin-off series. Also also, it's not really up to us to determine what is and isn't the proper numbering for a title in the series, that is Nintendo's job. We are to simply state that "Mario Kart Live is the eleventh installment in the Mario Kart series" and leave it at that, as that wording doesn't give the title a proper number, and, should a "Mario Kart 9" come out regardless, we'd still write it off as "Mario Kart 9 is the twelfth installment of the Mario Kart series". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:30, May 8, 2021 (EDT)

== Size upscaled enemies ==

Enemies in the game, namely [[Piranha Plant]]s, [[Goomba]]s, and [[Sidestepper]]s, are sometimes made bigger so they are more difficult to avoid. When it comes to Piranha Plants, the game simply refers to their enlarged versions with the name of their base species as opposed to attributing them a different species, e.g. hitting the large Piranha Plant in Ghost Valley 1R/T is still displayed as "Piranha Plant" on-screen instead of "[[Big Piranha Plant]]" or something similar. I did not seem to pay much attention or importance to this when I added the Big Piranha Plant entry in the table of course elements, so, considering the above, should we remove its entries from the table?

As for big Goombas and big Sidesteppers, they only appear in bonus challenges, so their names are never displayed in-game; we can assume, however, that they are a similar case to the aforementioned big Piranha Plants. Someone with access to the game's files should confirm whether they are the same entity as their regular-sized counterparts or a different thing. What impact would this have on the [[Big Sidestepper]] page? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 23:00, May 20, 2021 (EDT)

== Mario Kart Tour trailer backgrounds ==

I added trailer backgrounds just so people can know about them (see Nintendo Mobile or Zephiel810 to see all Mario Kart Tour trailers).[[User:Pierce Ng|Pierce Ng]] ([[User talk:Pierce Ng|talk]]) 03:18, January 7, 2022 (EST)

:There's a [[List of tours in Mario Kart Tour|tour-specific page]] where this would be better suited. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 04:10, January 8, 2022 (EST)

== Palette Swaps ==
Okay, so I did start a proposal about this, but that was jumping the gun a bit. I cancelled the proposal and I want to try and spark a discussion concerning how we cover palette swaps. ''Mario Kart Tour'' plays a big part in this, as it showcases a bit of that inconsistency, but this can easily concern games like the ''[[Mario Baseball series]]'', ''[[Mario Sports Superstars]]'' and other games that feature palette swaps. We have articles for the karts and gliders in ''Tour'' because they feature distinct differences while the characters do not have their own articles. This primarily is because there are also a lot of costumed alts on top of palette swaps. Pretty much all the costume alts are exclusive to this game, but for characters like the colored Yoshis and Shy Guys, they have had other appearances where they've had different stats from their base character. I personally believe we could recreate articles for the colored Yoshis, as they have had multiple appearances where the color of the Yoshi has had slight differences from each other, such as ''[[Super Mario World]]'', ''[[Yoshi's Story]]'' and, of course, the aforementioned ''Mario Baseball series'' and ''Mario Kart Tour'', and that easily extends to Shy Guys, Birdos, Koopa Trooopas and Toads. The question is; when does it become excessive? Because we do have articles for palette swapped karts that visually look the same, right down to the wheels, such as the [[Red Turbo Yoshi]], [[Blue Biddybuggy]], [[Sky-Blue B Dasher Mk. 2|pretty]] [[Green B Dasher Mk. 2|much]] [[Metal B Dasher Mk. 2|all]] [[Cream B Dasher Mk. 2|the]] [[Classic B Dasher Mk. 2|B Dasher Mk. 2]] [[Red B Dasher Mk. 2|karts]], I just question why that's not excessive, but characters are. That's what I really want to discuss; what are people's thoughts on that overall deal? Cause dealing with palette swaps also means that the costume alts in ''Tour'' could also be in the same boat. And I know this could slide into other topics as well so I just wanna see what other people think of the overall topic. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:I'd say that while there are multitudes of Yoshis, Birdos, Shy Guys, Toads, etc. established in-game and work interchangeably (possibly the argument for keeping Koopas merged), the karts are more limited in their scope, limited to probably Mario Kart Tour (though questions might arise if, like the Sky-Blue B Dasher Mk. 2 reappears as a mere palette swap akin to palette swaps in Mario Kart 8, we'd probably have short one-liners as a result) would be why having separate articles for all the recolors would be excessive. But if we're going to merge those Mk. 2 Dashers, why aren't we then merging the Doubles in Double Dash (e.g. Rattle Buggy vs Goo-Goo Buggy; Red Fire and Green Fire) as those are also palette swaps? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 22:24, January 20, 2022 (EST)
::I feel like having different statistics from each other is already a fine enough reason to keep them split. I'm not opposed to keeping the B Dasher Mk. 2 karts split, as they all feature different Favorite and Favored Courses. The Double Dash karts also feature different stats: the Green Fire, for example, has a higher speed than the Red Fire, but less weight and acceleration, creating a comparable difference. Tour doesn't follow the same stat system that traditional Mario Kart games follow, but it does have the whole Special Skill, Favorite Course and Favored Course thing going for it, which is kinda the same thing. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::If ''Mario Kart Tour'' vehicles like the Sky-Blue B Dasher Mk. 2 reappear as mere palette swaps of other karts in any future ''Mario Kart'' games, we make a short, heading-less note of that on their respective articles, akin to "This kart later appears as a different color scheme of [kart] in Mario Kart X, Mario Kart Y, and Mario Kart Z". The [[Blue Biddybuggy]] and [[Black Circuit]] articles are currently handling a similar situation in the same vein. I'm against merging the ''Tour'' kart variants with their original counterparts just because of a scenario that can be and has been handily circumvented. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 20:01, January 21, 2022 (EST)
:::I'm more against merging ''Tour's'' karts/gliders as well, but because of that, it's the main reason I feel we should give more palette swaps their own articles. Looking past ''Tour's'' costume alts, characters like colored Yoshies, Shy Guys and even Toads have multiple appearances other than ''Tour'' where they've had different stats or functional differences. Yoshis especially, with games like ''Super Mario World'', ''Yoshi's Story'', ''Mario Super Sluggers'' and ''Mario Tennis Open''. Admittedly, there are still more games where many color swaps are purely aesthetic and don't change much of anything (most other ''Yoshi'' series games, ''Mario Hoops 3-on-3'', ''Mario Sports Mix'' etc), but I still think that considering these karts get articles after only one appearance, other palette swaps with multiple appearances of differences should be considered for their own articles. {{User:Tails777/sig}}


When it comes to the costumes, while effectively cases like ''Yoshi (Reindeer)'' might be interesting, since he appeared well before ''Mario Kart Tour'', I think that if we ended up merging the Yoshi colors we should consider if we should rather merge the pages of the various recolored karts and their parts, including those from ''Mario Kart: Double Dash!!'' and ''Mario Kart 8'', to follow a similar logic.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 18:35, January 21, 2022 (EST)
:When I thought of merging them, that brought up the idea of other palette swaps too, mostly RPG enemies like ''Dream Team's'' R enemies and the X Bosses. Are they a class of their own or would they be in a similar situation? {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::I'm not sure the Dream Team R enemies is a very good comparison here, those are not only palette swaps but are mainly stronger versions of the past enemies. Same with the X bosses. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 19:29, January 21, 2022 (EST)
:::Just making sure. I didn't know if saying "different stats" would extend to that or not. Cause when I thought of comparing the stats of for karts or characters in sports titles, I thought comparing battle stats would be kinda the same thing. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::::But my devil's advocacy goes, isn't Party Time Toad also a stronger version of another character on the roster? I bring up Toad because there's multiple of that character, so it's not like Fairy Daisy where you can argue that it's an alt of an individual character. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 13:56, January 23, 2022 (EST)
:::::That's kinda a good point. ''Tour'' makes it very clear that High End characters are better so it wouldn't be far off to say that pretty much every costumed alt is just a "stronger version of that character", though that wouldn't be the case for everyone, since there are high end alts of high end characters (King Bob-omb to name an example). {{User:Tails777/sig}}15:22, January 23, 2022 (EST)

So it's clear that it's better not to split various palette swaps/alternates into their own articles, but I have a different idea worth throwing out. Would anyone be opposed to the idea of making list articles for character variants? For example ''List of Mario variants in Mario Kart Tour''. Lists would cover each alternate of a specific character in a similar way to how the current kart/glider articles list their information. I mean Mario's ''Mario Kart Tour'' section is basically an entire paragraph describing his 15+ variants in the game and I feel a separate article for all those variants would be better for getting the more in depth details in full without further bloating his already large article. {{User:Tails777/sig}}

== DS shroom ridge and Wii coconut mall are confirmed ==

It's no secret that the new 8 deluxe DLC re-used models from this game, but it also confirmed both tracks are coming. During the DLC showcase, there's a specific section that re-used the course selection icons from tour (without character artworks in front of them of course), it's easy to tell because the lightning matches the versions from tour more than the ones showcased in the trailer (it's the same exact picture for tracks such as 'Paris promenade', the pictures just being cropped.

To confirm this further: the rocky road sections of GBA sky garden is grey in both the sky tour teaser Nintendo posted on twitter and the picture previously shown (https://mobile.twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1486236782282878979), but it's orange-ish in 8 deluxe: https://assets.gamepur.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/09190852/mario-kart-8-sky-garden1-800x450.jpg
Can we add the tracks into the 'other' section? [[User: PrincessDaisyForever|PrincessDaisyForever]] ([[User talk: PrincessDaisyForever|talk]])

:<s>While it's likely, this isn't confirmation they're in the game. We should add them when they're officially revealed. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 20:59, February 11, 2022 (EST)</s> Clearly I didn't look at them carefully. They've already been added to the page now but you're right, and the trees in Shroom Ridge even look completely different. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 22:31, February 12, 2022 (EST)
::Update to this, after a minor discussion I had with the user WildWario on my talk page, we decided to remove their "confirmed" status, since they haven't been announced for Mario Kart Tour and they probably even took the screenshots for these two tracks in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. [[User:Gold Luigi|Gold Luigi]] ([[User talk:Gold Luigi|talk]]) 09:15, February 15, 2022 (EST)
:::That's definitely not a possibility, the assets used are different, this being particularly evident in the stone paved road of GBA Sky Garden, but also being noticeable in the trees of DS Shroom Ridge. As confirmed by the other thumbnails that are definitely taken from the square thumbnails of ''Mario Kart Tour'', the thumbnails of GBA Sky Garden and DS Shroom Ridge are certainly excerpt of the square thumbnails used in ''Mario Kart Tour''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:59, February 15, 2022 (EST)

== Ranked Cup Rewards Update ==

The ranked rewards are outdated for at least "From tier 25." I was going to update it but noticed the last update was mentioned above it giving more information: "Since the Cooking Tour, tier 25 and up rewards points-cap tickets for the top few positions." I'm not sure when it was changed or how to find out so I wouldn't be able to add that information if I updated it. Should I update the page anyway without that information? [[User: Toomin|Toomin]] ([[User talk: Toomin|talk]]) 17:41, March 14, 2022 (EDT)
:When there is a conflict like that, you can edit your own changes, so add that sentence to your own edits and then submit.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:08, March 16, 2022 (EDT)

== Variant Pinpointing ==
{{talk}}
I've talked about this with some people before, but something that came up on my project of handling Tour's characters, drivers and gliders was how iffy it was pinpointing which karts and gliders were variants of what. I have since found a spreadsheet that a Twitter account, Mario Kart Tour News, made that lists the characters, gliders, karts etc and various information, including their internal file names. As I was looking through them, I noticed a few key things, things that came up in discussions I've had previously;
*The internal name for the various Butterfly Wings start are "Wing_ButterflyW_*color of glider*", indicating that, despite the Butterfly Sunset debuting first, it seems like the internal names still go with the Butterfly Wings as the standard name.
*However, the internal names for the Sushi Racer and Pirate Sushi Racer are slightly different from each other, with the Sushi Racer being named "BodyK_Hojiro_Blue" while the Pirate Sushi Racer is "BodyK_HojiroPirates_Black", which is different than most other variants to their normal counterparts.
*The internal names for the Dragonfly and the Dozer Dasher are different, being "BodyK_DragonF" and "BodyK_Bulldozer" respectively, indicating that the Dozer Dasher isn't likely a variant of the Dragonfly
*Despite looking slightly different, the Pumpkin Kart and Gold Pumpkin Kart still have the same internal file name pattern as the other Apple Kart variants, being "BodyK_Apple_Pumpkin"/"BodyK_Apple_PumpkinGold".
*Now I don't know the difference between the Index Number and the Machine ID Number, but the Red Kiddie Kart is listed before the Green Kiddie Kart in the Machine ID Number list, which seems to line up with other normal karts being listed before their variants.
That being said, I ask the question of if these file names are a viable way of pinpointing which are variants of what? This being especially helpful for the Butterfly Wings situation, as the internal names clearly show the Butterfly Wings being the standard naming theme for the various variants, despite the Butterfly Sunset debuting first. However, I don't want to make any decisions until I've heard what others can say on this.

I have the spreadsheet here if anyone wants to look at it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xxAnNXbxlhzJyq0tCdnSnPZba9YiNKxfCGnVUuIZXPU/edit#gid=1209496945 {{User:Tails777/sig}}22:04, May 30, 2022 (EDT)

==All-Clear Pipe==
I would like a quick and easy way to pull up the All-Clear Pipe contents. I notice that they're listed on this page, but you can't really search for them or click a link to them from other articles because they're not in their own section, so I think we should create a new section or possibly even a new article for the All-Clear Pipe, something that we can search for or create links for. What do you think the best way to do this would be? Should we create a section in this article for the All-Clear Pipe? Split it or the pipes section out to a new article? Something else?

--[[User:Bolt Strike|Bolt Strike]] ([[User talk:Bolt Strike|talk]]) 16:02, June 3, 2022 (EDT)[[User:Bolt Strike|Bolt Strike]]

== Datamined tracks (non-speculative ones) added to the Other section? ==

While there is a fair amount of speculation as to what tracks are coming to Mario Kart Tour even with datamines (all of the new tracks are up for speculation), from keeping up with the subreddit's Discord server's findings, there are several tracks that can be definitively confirmed because of the abbreviations applied, and I was wondering if they should be added to the Other list. I'm going to leave out tracks that are unclear but have been hinted at or leaked through other means, like N64 Luigi Raceway, GCN Waluigi Stadium, or MK8 Toad Harbor, as well as the recent Battle datamines. I'm also leaving out GBA Luigi Circuit, as the files believed to be tied to it curiously lacked the AGB prefix, so it might be for something else entirely, as well as the GBA Bowser's Castle datamined because it's unclear if it's 3, 4, or maybe even an RMX course. With that said, the list is as follows:
*SNES Ghost Valley 3 (don't know the specific string but apparently a file related to it was found during the Wario vs. Waluigi Tour)
*GBA Yoshi Desert (PillarAgbyd)
*GCN Daisy Cruiser (TableGcdc)
*GCN DK Mountain (RoadMovingGcdm)
*Wii Grumble Volcano (RoadGuraGuraTest)
*Wii Dry Dry Ruins (PillarWiiddr, SandHillWiiddr)
*3DS Wuhu Loop (ClownWuhu)
*3DS Piranha Plant Slide (BlockSet3dsps4; this object is actually used in Sky Garden T)
*3DS Maka Wuhu (RockWuhu)

I understand why this idea might be rejected, especially because it could spoil new course additions, but I feel like if SNES Ghost Valley 2 and DS Shroom Ridge can appear in the Other section, then some of the other tracks that aren't yet included but are indicated by datamines would also make sense for inclusion. Would be interested to hear people's thoughts on this. 
{{User|PikaPhantom}} 03:11, June 23rd, 2022 (EDT)

:Spoilers aren't hidden on the wiki, so I think it's okay. But I think it can be added to the [[List of Mario Kart Tour pre-release and unused content]] page. Then, we can also include information on the new battle course datamines. {{User:WildWario/sig}} 03:18, June 23, 2022 (EDT)
:The problem is the one you just hinted: some elements are actually used in other courses. We had the gates (including the sound effect) of Super Bell Subway for a long time, and even an ad hoc badge of the course (it didn't have one in ''Mario Kart 8'' since it was a DLC course), but the course itself is still missing and it's hard to guess whether it will show up or not.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 03:22, June 23, 2022 (EDT)

::I think the main listed ones are okay. All of them other than Grumble Volcano have game prefixes which connect them to the courses. {{User:WildWario/sig}} 03:27, June 23, 2022 (EDT)
:::''BlockSet3dsps4'' is course-specific as well, but is nonetheless currently used in another context. While it's likely that Piranha Plant Slide will eventually be added, the presence of individual elements isn't yet enough of a proof, due to how certain elements are used in other courses (in this case, ''GBA Sky Garden T''). In the other cases - ''SNES Ghost Valley 2'' and ''DS Shroom Ridge'' - we have at least a screenshot of the course.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:56, June 23, 2022 (EDT)
:Yeah, I do think the pre-release and unused content page would be a better place to put this info, especially because it already has a section mentioning datamined course objects... without going into any specifics. The tweet referenced in the section is also outdated, as far as I can tell; many of the objects don't seem to be for the tracks in question, like N64 Moo Moo Farm or GBA Mario Circuit, while others appear to have been used elsewhere (the Skating Shy Guy objects are used in Vancouver Velocity 2 and not GCN Sherbet Land, and the conveyor objects believed to be for Wii Toad's Factory appear to be used in Wii Coconut Mall as the escalators). And the reason why I added Grumble Volcano to the list is because its Japanese name is Gura Gura Kazan. I do understand Mister Wu's perspective, though, and agree that any track where its inclusion is more ambiguous should not be mentioned. While I don't think the Piranha Plant Slide blocks being used in Sky Garden T deconfirms its inclusion, given the filename and the use of elements like Noshi in Koopa Troopa Beach and Tokyo Blur variants, even something like the Mushroom Cars from GCN Mushroom Bridge/City should go unmentioned because they don't reference which track they're for despite very likely pointing towards one or the other (if not both). {{User|PikaPhantom}} 2:09, Thursday, June 23rd (EDT)

== If we're really going to stick to mini icons ==

We really ought to upload smaller variants for use for tables, not use scaled-down ~420 × 320 sprites and 128 × 128 sprites. We didn't need to do this earlier with like Mario Kart 8 because it wasn't meant to be used in the manner Mario Kart Tour was doing, and it's probably not worth much to go over reuploading, but for this? Yeahh. All of the loading times each scaled-down image takes DO add up especially when literally hundreds of 420 × 320 and 128 × 128 sprites are being loaded. The [[List of favored and favorite courses in Mario Kart Tour]] was a particularly atrocious result of it (before it was split), but even in smaller pages, the loading times for something like [[List of favored and favorite new courses in Mario Kart Tour]] chug a bit. Upload these icons at 30x30 (the tables seem to set them at 30x30 already) (keep proportions with karts), it should improve performance on computers loading these monstrous pages. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 00:07, July 26, 2022 (EDT)

== A note about Sky-high Sundae==

As you surely know, the ''Mario Kart Tour'' icon of Sky-high Sundae was already found in a datamined promotional image of the Booster Course Pass of ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''. However, this time the course will be released first on ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' and [https://topics.nintendo.co.jp/article/3efa3b3f-00ed-4df7-918b-96ba3387d462 afterwards in ''Mario Kart Tour'']. Thankfully for us, there's a solution to this dilemma. As I reported previously, every course added in both ''Mario Kart Tour'', ''Mario Kart 8'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' follows the very same naming conventions, said conventions include the platform for which the course was made. This means that ultimately the assignment of Sky-high Sundae as a new course of either ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' or ''Mario Kart Tour'' will depend on said platform code (''mob'' for the courses made for ''Mario Kart Tour'', ''u'' for the courses of ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'').

In any case, even if it turned out to be a course made for ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' in my opinion we should nonetheless avoid statements like "''Sky-high Sundae'' is the first classic course from ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' to be featured in ''Mario Kart Tour''", if anything because at this point it's more and more evident that the development team working on the courses of ''Mario Kart Tour'' is largely shared with the development team working on the Booster Course Pass and is thus rather designing courses for both rather than just targeting a single game. This means that Sky-high Sundae would be more the case of a course that is new for both ''Mario Kart Tour'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''.

Of course, if they outright presented it as ''Switch Sky-high Sundae'' we'd just report it as a classic course from ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'', what happened with Ninja Hideaway suggests that this isn't likely to happen, though.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:19, July 28, 2022 (EDT)

:I agree with this statement. {{User:Tails777/sig}}16:54, July 29, 2022 (EDT)

::Is there a platform code for the ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''{{'}}s new battle arenas? Was the platform code ''u'', or a Nintendo Switch-specific code? - {{User:Infinite8/sig}} 01:49, July 30, 2022 (EDT)
:::[https://www.models-resource.com/nintendo_switch/mariokart8deluxe/model/22611/ They used ''u'', surprisingly]. 
:::By the way, if someone has access to the files of the Booster Course Pass, it would be nice to know what are the internal names there, they sadly seem very messy: [https://www.models-resource.com/nintendo_switch/mariokart8deluxe/model/51053/ Tour Paris Promenade is ''cnsw_11''], so they use the new ''c'' course code (''course pass'') instead of ''d'' (''DLC'') like in ''Mario Kart 8'', they arbitrarily name Paris Promenade ''11'' instead of ''Paris'' like in ''Mario Kart Tour'' and they arbitrarily brand it as a Nintendo Switch course which is technically true - this layout isn't playable in ''Mario Kart Tour'' - but also not very promising if we want to know more about the origin of the courses. Hopefully it's just city courses of the Pass (that are all original layouts) that have an internal name this messed up.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:03, July 30, 2022 (EDT)
::::Never mind, [https://gamebanana.com/tuts/14836 I can confirm that they just didn't bother assigning a final unified name to the courses of the pass], they just use what look like preliminary/placeholder unified names. Good thing that at least on ''Mario Kart Tour'' they didn't give up on giving a proper unified name to each course...--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:24, July 30, 2022 (EDT)

A confirmation: [https://mobile.twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1555440969494908930 the official Twitter post of the Sundae Tour revealed that Sky-High Sundae won't have any platform prefix in its Tour in-game name], this means that, as expected, we can't really treat it as a classic course, more likely as a new course in both ''Mario Kart Tour'' and ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe''. The platform code will tell us where to put it in the various templates, but wording-wise I'd say that it's better to treat it like Nintendo is doing, as a new course in both games. By the way, [https://youtu.be/JthHtyww3r0 I can sadly confirm that the whole Booster Course Pass will use placeholder names for all its courses], meaning that we'll need to rely on both the official name and the internal name in ''Mario Kart Tour''.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 05:06, August 5, 2022 (EDT)

==GBA snow land==

Given it was confirmed a long time ago the booster pass just recycles models from this game, shouldn't GBA snow land go under the upcoming tracks? [[User:PrincessDaisyForever|PrincessDaisyForever]] ([[User talk:PrincessDaisyForever|talk]]) 19:19, July 29, 2022 (EDT)
:I think the only reason DS Shroom Ridge is listed is because the booster course pass banner shows Tour screenshots of the track. GBA Snow Land doesn’t have that trait. So it’s not listed as a result, since there’s no real visual proof yet. {{User:Tails777/sig}}16:49, July 29, 2022 (EDT)
::For more information, you can see [[DS Shroom Ridge#Other appearances|Shroom Ridge]]'s other appearances section. Snow Land's pictures don't show much that's different from the trailer.  {{User:WildWario/sig}} 22:20, July 29, 2022 (EDT)

==Courses in their own page==

I feel the courses should get its own page, since the number of courses will increase within future Tours, so the page won't seem as long before. Maybe all in one page, or even split in two pages. One for the new courses and RMX tracks, another for returning courses.   {{User:Edlde62}} 13:13, August 29th, 2022 (EDT)

== Team Rally Page ==

I was thinking this through earlier today and maybe yesterday as well. What if this wiki has a Mario Kart Tour subpage talking about Team Rally tours? Generally a description of a Team Rally tour (what is a Team Rally, how Team Rallies differ from a regular tour, what can you get in a Team Rally, etc.), as well as a list of all Team Rally tours, with the teams and winner. While not directly classified as a Team Rally, perhaps we could also talk about how the [[Mii Tour]] shares certain characteristics of a Team Rally tour. It's ok if you guys go against the idea, in fact I was actually about to create the page but decided to discuss the idea here first in fear of immediate deletion. Essentially all I wanted out of this discussion is your guys' opinions on this idea. [[User:Evil elmo|Evil elmo]] ([[User talk:Evil elmo|talk]]) 00:49, September 2, 2022 (EDT)

== Needs a serious cleanup: too many messy tables ==

[[File:MKT table.png|300px]]

These tables need to be cleaned up too, assuming they are even necessary (yes a lot of them don't seem necessary such as the table for "High-End items obtainable from the All-Clear Pipe"). For instance, this article abuses colspan and rowspan to no end (even though inappropriate use of colspan and rowspan are found in other pages, such as [[Mario Kart 8]], a featured article). That table in [[Mario_Kart_Tour#Ranked_cup|the ranked up section]] is a prime offender, being one of the most confusing and convoluted tables I've tried to read on the wiki (and I wouldn't dare edit this monstrosity). Also, why do we have a section that just replicates the layout of the main menu? This is a serious issue plaguing this article, and there has to be a major overhaul to how this article is designed. Consider putting a rewrite or construction template on this. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:31, September 24, 2022 (EDT)
:The table of High-end items concerns only the items that are regularly obtainable between tours, which makes it a general aspect of the game, so I disagree on removing it. The course elements table could feature alternately-colored rows (like the "dk table" table class) to better set off appearances of two adjacent entries. The ranked table is the best contender for redesign, though I don't really know how to approach it myself--would it work to just organise information vertically? Since it would consequently become too tall, it could then be made togglable by way of a "div" tag, or even split into a separate page given the amount of information. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 16:35, September 24, 2022 (EDT)
:Attempted a reorg of the ranked table; I split it into two separate tables concerning different aspects of this game mode (rewards and tier advancements) and gave each particular tier increment its own cell. I hope this is somewhat satisfactory. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 08:30, October 4, 2022 (EDT)

== Riverside Park ==

There seems to be some confusion over whether Riverside Park or Lakeside Park is being added. I took a closer look at [https://twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1590947431344054272 the video,], and you can see the starting line of the course from 0:14 to 0:17. Coupled with the layout of the track, it's Riverside Park and that should put any confusion to rest.

--[[User:Theidiot19|Theidiot19]] ([[User talk:Theidiot19|talk]]) 01:38, November 11, 2022 (EST)

== Booster Course Pass courses ==

I know it's just a nitpick, but I don't feel confortable with retro courses such as Wii Coconut Mall and DS Shroom Ridge being listed here as "coming from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe". Sure, they've been released on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe before they did on Mario Kart Tour, but still, they used Mario Kart Tour's course models instead of their own as in GCN Baby Park, GCN Yoshi Circuit, N64 Yoshi Valley and N64 Royal Raceway (which are on both Mario Kart 8 and Tour, and use the same appearance, but instead of sharing a course model, ther Tour models recreates Mario Kart 8's version in their own artstyle).

It seems to me that, by pointing out that the Booster Course Pass courses that were released first on 8 Deluxe "returned from Mario Kart 8 Deluxe", it suggests that these courses were remade on 8 Deluxe by its own dev team themselves instead of Tour's, or at least resemble Mario Kart 8's artstyle in their 8 Deluxe appearance (as is the case with all courses from Wave 2 onwards, they still use Tour's course models but mix it with Mario Kart 8's artstyle, especially most of Waves 3-4 and Kalimari Desert. Wave 1, which includes the aforementioned Coconut Mall and Shroom Ridge, sticks to Tour's artstyle the most). Personally, I'd like it to be specified that such courses "returned from the ''Booster Course Pass''", since it's understood that all the courses from the DLC borrow Tour's course models. --[[User:SuperJuancho64|SuperJuancho64]] ([[User talk:SuperJuancho64|talk]]) 17:05, March 8, 2023 (EST)

:Coming from my own point of not treating the 8 Deluxe versions as the intended first versions, I agree with this. We should say they come from the Booster Course Pass rather than just ''Mario Kart 8 Deluxe'' in general. {{User:Tails777/sig}}

== Wiggler ==

Wiggler was added to Mario Kart 8 Deluxe before Tour (by a few hours), so he should not be listed as one of the returning characters in the Drivers section. [[Special:Contributions/73.171.36.107|73.171.36.107]] 09:52, July 24, 2023 (EDT)

:A valid point, bit of a slippery slope if you ask me, since Wiggler was added to ''8 Deluxe'' first, thus making the gap between playable appearances much shorter. However, I think the section is not counting DLC appearances overall (even if Wiggler is the only one to appear in the pass before ''Tour''). {{User:Tails777/sig}}11:03, July 24, 2023 (EDT)

== Super Mario Bros. 2 ==

Should Super Mario Bros. 2 be added in the "References to other games" since the special items Birdo, Birdo (Red), and Birdo (Green) are the same as how they attack? {{unsigned|Edlde62}}
:No, Birdo's eggs are just a traditional trait of Birdo in general. That'd be like saying Yoshi throwing a Yoshi Egg in a game is a reference to SMW2. As well, there are other Birdo colours that also use the Birdo Egg special item that were not in SMB2. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 19:32, August 10, 2023 (EDT)

== Kind of Incorrect Trivia ==

"This is the first Mario Kart game since Mario Kart: Super Circuit to have numbered new courses (e.g. Tokyo Blur 3) and the first Mario Kart game to feature numbered variants of classic courses (namely N64 Kalimari Desert 2). " is not exactly true, since iirc in Mario Kart 7 the wuhu tracks were called "Wuhu Island 1/2" in Japanese and other languages, just not in english. Unsure how to correctly convey this though.

[[User:Zachruff|Zachruff]] ([[User talk:Zachruff|talk]]) 17:35, September 20, 2023 (EDT)

== Tours and Ranked Items ==

Should the tours with Ranked items have their Driver/Kart/Glider rewards listed on their respective pages? For example, in the Yoshi Tour (2021), Blue Yoshi should be listed as a Ranked Reward, but it doesn't on its respective page. Should those rewards be listed?

[[User:edlde62|edlde62]] ([[User talk:edlde62|talk]]) 07:39, July 13th, 2024 (EDT)

== On using screenshots to cite in-game information ==

I'm mostly talking about the images present in these categories:
*[[:Category:Mario Kart Tour special offer screenshots]]
*[[:Category:Mario Kart Tour Spotlight Shop screenshots]]
*[[:Category:Mario Kart Tour Mii Racing Suit Shop screenshots]]

It is certainly an unorthodox practice on this wiki. Since its inception, the site's tacit position has been that, when documenting stuff that is directly encountered in a game, you're not typically required or even encouraged to produce a source on that particular subject, the rationale being that anyone can just play the game or watch a playthrough of it in order to ascertain the information's validity. Original Research is practically the wiki's unspoken subtitle. A source is really only needed when the information is derived from supplementary material, is obtainable through modifications of software, or is otherwise deemed obscure enough even if it appears in the product as it was shipped by its developers. In most cases, I agree with this rationale and I don't see a reason for the wiki to distance itself from it; however, somewhat contrarily, I'm also of the opinion that certain information derived from Mario Kart Tour, such as the flavor text for drivers, karts, and gliders, does indeed require citing via screenshots despite being inherently designed to be visible and "market" an in-game collectible to players. Doing otherwise may hinder the process of fact-checking; here's how I justify this position:
#These pieces of flavor text are tied to items that are discounted in-game for a very limited amount of time. That means that said text is available for only 1 to 4 weeks ''a year'' for players to peruse as they are running the game on their device. If you wish to verify the accuracy of these descriptions, simply firing up the game and checking what's in it is 90% of the time not a solution. To say nothing of the fact that the game is designed around its live service and is highly likely to go the way of Dr. Mario World at one point; try checking these descriptions ''then''.
#Failing that, users who wish to fact-check these descriptions on the wiki have two options:
##Seeking out a gameplay video where the player goes out of their way to tap on the spotlit item and show its flavor text. Since it's such a non-essential part of the game, let's-players rarely do this, rendering the fact-checking process very time-consuming. I tried looking up the descriptions for the [[List_of_Mii_Racing_Suit_profiles_and_statistics_in_Mario_Kart_Tour_(Red–Dolphin)#King_Bob-omb_Mii_Racing_Suit|King Bob-omb Mii suit]], for which I never provided screenshots like with other items from the game, and the sifting through tens of videos on YouTube where players never visit that content was so torturous that I left that section with only 5 descriptions (out of 11).
##Looking in the game's files. Based on what {{user|Mister Wu}} suggested [[User talk:Mister Wu#Of pipes and punctuation|here]], it seems the game's assets are removed and re-added routinely as the game cycles through new tours; you'd need specific dumps stored on your system if you want to know, for instance, what obstacle A in course X is called internally. I can only assume the flavor text may similarly be tied to specific tours--and even if it's not, only a fraction of the game's playerbase has datamining knowledge and is unlikely to acquire it just for a bunch of kart blurbs.

If anybody disagrees, let me know. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:01, July 31, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 393: / Line 393: @@
 == DS shroom ridge and Wii coconut mall are confirmed ==
-It's no secret that the new 8 deluxe DLC re-used models from this game, but it also confirmed both tracks are coming. During the DLC showcase, there's a specific section that re-used the course selection icons from tour (without character artworks in front of them of course).
+It's no secret that the new 8 deluxe DLC re-used models from this game, but it also confirmed both tracks are coming. During the DLC showcase, there's a specific section that re-used the course selection icons from tour (without character artworks in front of them of course), it's easy to tell because the lightning matches the versions from tour more than the ones showcased in the trailer (it's the same exact picture for tracks such as 'Paris promenade', the pictures just being cropped.
-source: https://d1ztkyjcxhkkyv.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/Booster-Course-Pass-DLC-Mario-Kart-8-Deluxe-wave-structure-02-768x432.jpg
-It's easy to tell because the lightning matches the versions from tour more than the ones showcased in the trailer (it's the same exact picture for tracks such as 'Paris promenade', the pictures just being cropped.
 To confirm this further: the rocky road sections of GBA sky garden is grey in both the sky tour teaser Nintendo posted on twitter and the picture previously shown (https://mobile.twitter.com/mariokarttourEN/status/1486236782282878979), but it's orange-ish in 8 deluxe: https://assets.gamepur.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/09190852/mario-kart-8-sky-garden1-800x450.jpg