Editing Talk:Mame-san

== Beanies from M&L and yoshi are the Same? ==
I'm a little confused for why we have two different pages for the Beanies. I understand there are some differences with their design but the beanies from Yoshi's New Island still have the same shape, color and name from the Beanies of the Mario and Luigi series. I feel they were designed this way as part of a style choice for the game series, not because they are completely different, ( I mean there have been tons of redesigned enemies meant to fit in other series). I also feel that the naming wasn't an accident, the Beanies from the M&L series are quite well known so it should be assumed that the developers of Yoshi's New Island new what the previous beanies were and decided to re-work them into their game with a new design. This is also not the first time content form the M&L series was reworked into other games, Prof. E Gadd's lab from 'Partners in Time' was also in 'Luigi's Mansion DM' and the Beanish were present in Paper MArio TYD.
So should we merge the two Beanie pages, it will be less confusing this way in my opinion.{{user:Sgt. Sarge/sig}}
:They're both based on beans. That's where their name and design stems from. Besides that, they are entirely different. They are wholly separate from each other, and their articles should acknowledge that. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}

== Name source ==

Where did you find the name? The bosses's names may not always be an allusion to the enemies, since [[Snifberg the Unfeeling]], well it's an Ice Snifit. I know it's because of the ice (plastic) cube, but Big Beanie looks like a [[wikipedia:Green bean|Green bean]] more than the Beanies, who only have the shape of a normal bean. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:28, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
:Kamek still transforms him from being a normal Beanie, so he is technically still a Beanie. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 10:43, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
::I mean that, bosses names don't always come form the enemy, like Snifberg. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:06, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
:::Ps: The name of the enemy was Ice Snifit and not Snifberg. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:07, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
::::That still makes him an Ice Snifit. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 11:32, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
:::::I know, but still an ice Snifit, he is called Snifberg. This would mean that the bean enemies, aren't actually called Beanies. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:46, 29 September 2018 (EDT)
:Unlike Snifberg, "Big Beanie" is pretty straightforward, suggesting it's a large Beanie, which is most likely why the enemy was given that name for the article. Though I can see where you're coming from, as "Big Beanie" could just be a name given to it (maybe a pun on "big meanie"?), so the page may have to use a {{tem|conjectural}} template until a source is found.

:Re: your post on TheFlameChomp's talk page, the content was originally [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Beanie_(Mario_%26_Luigi:_Superstar_Saga)&diff=1646916&oldid=1629928 added] to the [[Beanie (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)]] page, which I split into a separate page for obvious reasons. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 08:39, 30 September 2018 (EDT)

Since this has a definitive Japanese name, should the page not be named "''Mamesan''? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:09, 1 October 2018 (EDT)
:According to [[MarioWiki:Naming]], it should. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 00:26, 1 October 2018 (EDT)

Something I didn't consider earlier: in the [https://youtu.be/2MFaGtpFbd4 Japanese version], [[Big Beanie]]'s name is <s>「大きなマメさん」</s>「ビッグマメさん」, which is literally "Big Mame-san." So "Beanie" might actually be the species name. But then again they've always been pretty basic with their names (take Snifberg's Japanese name, which is just "Big Ice Snifit"). {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 00:56, 1 October 2018 (EDT)
:Yeah, it's only when the enemy is also called like that that we would confirm it's Beanie. Snifberg the Unfeeling's species are called Ice Snifits and not Snifbergs. For Prince Froggy, the reason his name wasn't a direct reference to the enemy, is that if it was a reference to [[Frog Pirate|these frogs]], his name would be weird. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:10, 17 October 2018 (EDT)
::I don't think the various miscellaneous enemies were named at all in English until the NP guide was made.... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, 17 October 2018 (EDT)
::Seeing that the localization translated the name, it is possible that they mave have also been part of the Nintendo Power guide making, so... --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:59, 17 October 2018 (EDT)
:::The boss name. The guide came a little later. It's also the only real justification for Kamek's name when guides repeatedly call him a Magikoopa, which is what "Kamek" was translated to previously. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:20, 17 October 2018 (EDT)

So I think this guy should be renamed back to Beanie because if we follow the logic of all the other Bosses in Yoshi's New Island, Count Fang, King Clawdaddy, Furious Fred de Fillet; they all have the name of their base enemy form in their name. It stands without any reasonable doubt that the english name for Mame-san is Beanie. The "Ice Snifit" or "Kamek" examples are irreverent because we are considering the logic based on all the boss names in this specific game.--[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 11:14, January 9, 2024 (EST)
:They do. However, we don't technically know that "Beanie" would be the base name, especially considering Fred and Snifberg. To say nothing of YIDS's Big Guy the Stilted; the base enemy there is "Stilt Guy," not "Guy the Stilted." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:32, January 9, 2024 (EST)
::We should not be looking at the other games to draw a pattern, only this game and these specific bosses that are in it. Snifberg is from Yoshi's Wolly World and that game has a different naming structure than in Yoshi's new island. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 11:37, January 9, 2024 (EST)
:::All "Kamek enlarged normal enemies" follow a naming pattern, going by the original Japanese ("Big [whatever]," which is probably the best evidence for them being "Beanies" that there is), so specific game is irrelevant (and YNI doesn't have that much boss variety as it is). "Jean" becoming "Fred" is still an issue. I mean, what if the smaller ones aren't "Beanies," but "Little Beanies?" [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:45, January 9, 2024 (EST)
::::I feel like that assumption is splitting hairs. The last time they added "little" before the name of an enemy was for Mousers and that was in 1995, all other enemies avoided that naming style. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 11:55, January 9, 2024 (EST)
:::::I could swear that there was an official source like a website that called them Beanies, but I could very well be remembering wrong. Regardless, considering how the ''Yoshi's Island'' series bosses tend to get localized (with few exceptions like Big Bungee Piranha), "Big [X]" feels too direct. They could've been intended as "Beans" or somewhere along those lines. Think of it this way: Kamukamu is conjecturally derived from the Big Kamukamu boss because the name just hasn't been confirmed. Without a direct source, the best we can do is make a "conjectural exception" for this, but that would be setting a new precedent, and I'm not sure about that road. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:09, January 12, 2024 (EST)
::::::I think we should start making some "conjectural exceptions" for at least a few obvious examples, (The Swirlypods have recently gotten their new names but the bigger version is still called "Kodeka Maimai" instead of "Big Swirlypod"). If it is possible, can we not simply have a title-box at the top of the article stating something like "The title of this article is an educated fan translation based on the official non-English source. If the official English source is found, then the article should be moved to its appropriate title." This will at least make things more clear for a lot of people visiting the site and wondering why a version of a character has a radically different name. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 12:51, January 12, 2024 (EST)
@@ Line 31: / Line 31: @@
 ::::I feel like that assumption is splitting hairs. The last time they added "little" before the name of an enemy was for Mousers and that was in 1995, all other enemies avoided that naming style. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 11:55, January 9, 2024 (EST)
 :::::I could swear that there was an official source like a website that called them Beanies, but I could very well be remembering wrong. Regardless, considering how the ''Yoshi's Island'' series bosses tend to get localized (with few exceptions like Big Bungee Piranha), "Big [X]" feels too direct. They could've been intended as "Beans" or somewhere along those lines. Think of it this way: Kamukamu is conjecturally derived from the Big Kamukamu boss because the name just hasn't been confirmed. Without a direct source, the best we can do is make a "conjectural exception" for this, but that would be setting a new precedent, and I'm not sure about that road. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:09, January 12, 2024 (EST)
-::::::I think we should start making some "conjectural exceptions" for at least a few obvious examples, (The Swirlypods have recently gotten their new names but the bigger version is still called "Kodeka Maimai" instead of "Big/ Giant Swirlypod"). If it is possible, can we not simply have a title-box at the top of the article stating something like "The title of this article is an educated fan translation based on the official non-English source. If the official English source is found, then the article should be moved to its appropriate title." This will at least make things more clear for a lot of people visiting the site and wondering why a version of a character has a radically different name. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 12:51, January 12, 2024 (EST)
+::::::I think we should start making some "conjectural exceptions" for at least a few obvious examples, (The Swirlypods have recently gotten their new names but the bigger version is still called "Kodeka Maimai" instead of "Big Swirlypod"). If it is possible, can we not simply have a title-box at the top of the article stating something like "The title of this article is an educated fan translation based on the official non-English source. If the official English source is found, then the article should be moved to its appropriate title." This will at least make things more clear for a lot of people visiting the site and wondering why a version of a character has a radically different name. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 12:51, January 12, 2024 (EST)
-:::::::That'll be an "absolutely not" from me, at least. If you really want to, you can make a [[Mariowiki:Proposals|proposal]], but fair warning, that's shaking up the status quo in a way that most active users here ''do not'' want to go. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:03, January 12, 2024 (EST)
-::::::::Per Doc von Schmeltwick. That is a ridiculously terrible idea. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:04, January 12, 2024 (EST)
-:::::::::Well I'm going to make that proposal tonight. I think it's a great idea and it's desperately needed in this wiki. --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 13:19, January 12, 2024 (EST)
-::::::::::The ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder'' material is new so it's [[Talk:Super Mario Bros. Wonder#A note on the Game Informer source|in flux]], but that's beside the point. The conjecture override was an idea I spitballed off the cuff and didn't expect would get greenlit so soon. Dev info is one thing since we already take some leeway in rendering them (e.g. Bob-omb Fish is not bobombfish), but I think it would be fundamentally unencyclopedic to use fan-translations/localizations as subject titles. The example of Big Run Run Packun, having such overlap with the [[Talk:Super Mario Bros. Wonder#Japanese Enemy Names|Japanese name]] (でかランランパックン), makes me believe that safeguards are at the very least a necessity before this goes off the rails. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:28, January 13, 2024 (EST)
-:::::::::::You know, when the "Kodeka" enemies get actual English names, the "Kodeka" will probably be translated as "Hefty" anyways, so as obvious as stuff like [[Big Goombrat]] may seem... it's still much a temporary "until we get an official name" thing. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 12:18, January 13, 2024 (EST)
-::::::::::::...''Is'' the giant Goombrat that obvious, though? In ''Super Mario Maker 2'', they're the equivalent of that game's Big Goomba, whereas in ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder'', they're the equivalent of that game's Hefty Goomba. So if they're anything like the Goombas, they're technically two separate things, but are merged for convenience sake. That means giving an "educated guess" name for it doesn't really make sense since you can argue they're not even the same. That's just more flaws in this idea, in addition to what I said [[Talk:Mega Kantera|here]]. I believe I'd oppose if we got consensus on it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:46, January 13, 2024 (EST)