Editing Talk:Madam Merlar

==Deceased?==
There seems to be some dispute over whether or not [[:Category:Deceased Characters]] should be added to this page. The category says that it does not include undead characters, which is what Merlar is. So I don't think it should be included. Can those involved share their thoughts?<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 19:25, 22 October 2017 (EDT)

Well Wrinkly Kong is also Undead (She Didn't Move on) But is also Deceased. Mario JC Told Me it Was Because She Was alive at some point and the same is With Merlar. Plus in Japan i Think Merlar and Merlumina are the same person seeing as they share the same name and same "ability" of telling Long winded Stories that put people to sleep. Plus the other Shamen are said to Be the same person (i Think) due to sharing traits and names Like Merlon's wise and Merlee's Love of rhyming. also Merlumina is Under Deceased and Undead so Yeah that's my reasoning. {{User:LUIGIRULES71/Sig}}

:The thing about Merlar and Wrinkly Kong thought, is that Wrinkly actually appeared and is met in a game where she is alive in kicking, and then in a game where she is passed on and is a ghost. Merlar never appeared alive, and the only argument about belonging in the "Deceased" category is that she might have "moved on" after helping Mario....disregarding her appearance in the ending parade, which judging from character interaction in the epilogue, was indeed a thing that happened in the game's history and not just a fancy thing for the player's benefit. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:52, 23 October 2017 (EDT)

::Also, regarding the "Not everything under 'undead' was confirmed to be alive to begin with," that's already a bit of a misnomer name there then, since something has to die first before they "un-die." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 03:18, 23 October 2017 (EDT)

==Madam Merlar and Merlumina==
{{talk}}
If I unferstand it right, Madam Merlar and Merlumina, they have the same Japanese name, similar roles as the deceased ancestors of their respective games' Merlons, they both do the "very long story" thing... It kinda seems like they're supposed to be the same character, at least to the same extent as the different versions of Merlon, which share the same page. [[Special:Contributions/85.243.109.179|85.243.109.179]] 15:29, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
:I think you may want to see [[Talk:Lava Piranha#Regarding this and Fire Piranha Plant|this discussion]] for a similar case. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 15:52, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
::Lava Piranha is not a good comparison at all. That was just a flimsy attempt to merge a boss with its parent species based purely on a shared Japanese name. There's more to it here. These two, as stated above, are portrayed nearly identically. In general, Merlon's clan is a very unusual case in that they seem to be purely thematic, looking different in each game and never recognizing Mario from past games, so they're clearly not the same people. The closest comparison I can think of would be the [[Chancellor]] and [[Toad Minister]]. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:50, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
:::One of Wonky's tales in TTYD pretty much confirms your point about them not being the same people between the games (as stated on the top of Merlon's page). I think for the benefit of not confusing readers not familiar with the japanese name, it may be easier to leave them as seperate articles. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 17:24, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
::::In terms of ''Paper Mario'', this is really much closer to [[Toad Town#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Toad Town]] or the myriad of [[Template:PM Items|other]] [[Template:PMTTYD Items|name]] [[Template:SPM Items|changes]] the series had for the first three or so games. If we're not prepared to split the versions of Merlon and his ilk, it wouldn't seem to make sense to keep this split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:25, April 21, 2021 (EDT)
@@ Line 10: / Line 10: @@
 ==Madam Merlar and Merlumina==
+{{talk}}
 If I unferstand it right, Madam Merlar and Merlumina, they have the same Japanese name, similar roles as the deceased ancestors of their respective games' Merlons, they both do the "very long story" thing... It kinda seems like they're supposed to be the same character, at least to the same extent as the different versions of Merlon, which share the same page. [[Special:Contributions/85.243.109.179|85.243.109.179]] 15:29, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
 :I think you may want to see [[Talk:Lava Piranha#Regarding this and Fire Piranha Plant|this discussion]] for a similar case. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 15:52, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
 ::Lava Piranha is not a good comparison at all. That was just a flimsy attempt to merge a boss with its parent species based purely on a shared Japanese name. There's more to it here. These two, as stated above, are portrayed nearly identically. In general, Merlon's clan is a very unusual case in that they seem to be purely thematic, looking different in each game and never recognizing Mario from past games, so they're clearly not the same people. The closest comparison I can think of would be the [[Chancellor]] and [[Toad Minister]]. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 16:50, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
 :::One of Wonky's tales in TTYD pretty much confirms your point about them not being the same people between the games (as stated on the top of Merlon's page). I think for the benefit of not confusing readers not familiar with the japanese name, it may be easier to leave them as seperate articles. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 17:24, March 25, 2021 (EDT)
-::::In terms of ''Paper Mario'', this is really much closer to [[Toad Town#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Toad Town]] or the myriad of [[Template:PM items|other]] [[Template:PMTTYD items|name]] [[Template:SPM items|changes]] the series had for the first three or so games. If we're not prepared to split the versions of Merlon and his ilk, it wouldn't seem to make sense to keep this split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:25, April 21, 2021 (EDT)
+::::In terms of ''Paper Mario'', this is really much closer to [[Toad Town#Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door|Toad Town]] or the myriad of [[Template:PM Items|other]] [[Template:PMTTYD Items|name]] [[Template:SPM Items|changes]] the series had for the first three or so games. If we're not prepared to split the versions of Merlon and his ilk, it wouldn't seem to make sense to keep this split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:25, April 21, 2021 (EDT)
-==Merge to [[Merlumina]]==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|5-0|merge}}
-This is a straight-up inconsistent dub issue. Aside from having the same name in the language-of-origin, they function ''exactly'' the same as well: female spirit ancestor of the respective game's Merlon who appears to give a plot item while telling a comedically long-winded backstory of it. Regardless of if they are or are not the same ''individual'', the point comes back to:<br>
-"If they ''did'' consistently localize it, would we have it split?"<br>
-That's the question that should be asked. As for quote-unquote "confusion"...that's why we have redirects. We should ''allay'' confusion, not perpetuate it.
-'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': September 12, 2021, 23:59 GMT
-===Support===
-#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per.
-#{{User|Scrooge200}} I've always thought these characters were the same.
-#{{User|Swallow}} I'm not really sure how I can oppose this time, it's been implied that each Merlon between the games are not the same individual anyway despite not splitting them here, so I guess this will be for that consistency.
-#{{User|Somethingone}} Per all.
-#{{User|7feetunder}} The whole issue with the [[Talk:Cleft#Classification, Implementation, and Translation|"Moon Clefts"]] in ''SPM'' seems to indicate that the game's translators had a very loose grasp of the original ''Paper Mario'', hence the inconsistency (IIRC, Merlumina is the only "mer" character in ''SPM'' without a counterpart in ''TTYD'').
-===Oppose===
-===Comments===