Editing Talk:List of enemies

==(First topic)==
Hmmm... Since I gonna update this long list of wacky enemies for at least a week (AKA Spring Break); are the Wario Enemies and Yoshi Enemies are supposed to have their own list of enemies? Please respond... {{User:RAP/sig}}

I wouldn't think so...[[Special:Your page|.]][[User:HK-47#Strange_Tales:Comic| ]][[User:HK|M]][[MarioWiki:Donations|a]][[Mariowiki:Pipe Plaza|d]][[Special:blockip/HK-47|a]][[Special:Interwiki| ]][[User talk:HK-47|M]][[Special:Uncategorizedpages|a]][[Special:Version|d]][[Special:CheckUser|a]][[Special:Userscore| ]][[Cheese|D]][[Special:Contributions/HK-47|a]][[Special:Booksources|n]][[Special:undelete|e]][[Special:Prefixindex|.]][[Special:MIMEsearch|.]][[Special:Orphanedpages|.]]

:Throw me at least 3 reasons... {{User:RAP/sig}}

Yoshi enemies sometimes cross over, sometimes started in Mario, same goes for Wario.[[Special:Your page|.]][[User:HK-47#Strange_Tales:Comic| ]][[User:HK|M]][[MarioWiki:Donations|a]][[Mariowiki:Pipe Plaza|d]][[Special:blockip/HK-47|a]][[Special:Interwiki| ]][[User talk:HK-47|M]][[Special:Uncategorizedpages|a]][[Special:Version|d]][[Special:CheckUser|a]][[Special:Userscore| ]][[Cheese|D]][[Special:Contributions/HK-47|a]][[Special:Booksources|n]][[Special:undelete|e]][[Special:Prefixindex|.]][[Special:MIMEsearch|.]][[Special:Orphanedpages|.]]

:Hmm... That's true except for some of the Yoshi Enemies from Yoshi's Story (I guess...), well; I gotta work on it... {{User:RAP/sig}}

Actually, they should. Any overlapping enemies will be in both lists. -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]]

:And Overlapping means Crossover that enemies go into Mario Games, right? {{User:RAP/sig}}

Yep.[[Special:Your page|.]][[User:HK-47#Strange_Tales:Comic| ]][[User:HK|M]][[MarioWiki:Donations|a]][[Mariowiki:Pipe Plaza|d]][[Special:blockip/HK-47|a]][[Special:Interwiki| ]][[User talk:HK-47|M]][[Special:Uncategorizedpages|a]][[Special:Version|d]][[Special:CheckUser|a]][[Special:Userscore| ]][[Cheese|D]][[Special:Contributions/HK-47|a]][[Special:Booksources|n]][[Special:undelete|e]][[Special:Prefixindex|.]][[Special:MIMEsearch|.]][[Special:Orphanedpages|.]]

: OK, then it's settled; Crossover enemies stay in the Mario Enemies while the other enemies go into their own categories as Mario enemies stay here... {{User:RAP/sig}}

Mhm.[[Special:Your page|.]][[User:HK-47#Strange_Tales:Comic| ]][[User:HK|M]][[MarioWiki:Donations|a]][[Mariowiki:Pipe Plaza|d]][[Special:blockip/HK-47|a]][[Special:Interwiki| ]][[User talk:HK-47|M]][[Special:Uncategorizedpages|a]][[Special:Version|d]][[Special:CheckUser|a]][[Special:Userscore| ]][[Cheese|D]][[Special:Contributions/HK-47|a]][[Special:Booksources|n]][[Special:undelete|e]][[Special:Prefixindex|.]][[Special:MIMEsearch|.]][[Special:Orphanedpages|.]]

: So... Wanna chat in the forums? {{User:RAP/sig}}

{{User:BackfireFirst}} Personally I think it should stay the way it is. I mean, what do you suggest, a Wario Wiki, Yoshi Wiki, or a Donkey Kong Wiki? They are all sub-series of Mario and they should be included.

== Template ==
What's up with the templates on this page? If look under the edit summary box, there are a bunch of weird User-related templates on this page (including mine).{{User:SpikeKnifeNeedleSword/sig}} 15:53, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

WHAT THE HELL WHERE'S THE ENEMIES PAGE!!!!!!! IT EXISTED YESTERDAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I HOPE YOUR HAPPY SMW ABOUT YOU DELETING THE ENEMIES PAGE! WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT IT MAKES NO SENSE. WHY!!!! WHY!!!!!!!! WHO!!!!!!!!! WHY!!!!!!!!! {{unsigned|Juggos205622}}

== ???? ==

Sheesh, Juggos205622...

Anyway, shouldn't it say "from ???? to Zombie Shroom", instead of "from Aero to Zombie Shroom" because ???? is first on the list? {{User:Yoshiwaker47/sig}}15:57, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

== Article Fix ==

Can someone fix my mistakes, I forgot to add ; after ndash and I spent an hour adding all the 3D Land Enemies in.--[[File:Yoshidarkblue.jpg|50px]][[User:New Super Yoshi|New]][[User talk:New Super Yoshi| Super]][[Special:Contributions/New_Super_Yoshi| Yoshi]][[File:Yoshired.png|50px]] 15:50, 15 December 2011 (EST)
:Done. {{User:Mario4Ever/sig}}

== Intro ==
Shouldn't we rewrite the intro ? It's not objective at all... {{User:Banon/sig}} 17:05, 26 December 2012 (EST)

:Done. I rewrote it so it's more formal.

:{{User:YoshiKong/sig}} 22:08, 28 December 2012 (EST)

==Invincible Enemies Category==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-6|don't create}}
Hello, I'm suggesting to add this category to the wiki, because people who wants to know which are the enemies that are invincible, right now needs to search manually, and not all people knows the name of said enemies. So, this category would improve the navigation of the wiki. Thank you.

'''Proposer''': {{user|LED42}}<br>
'''Deadline''': September 15, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|LED42}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Camwood777}} - While there'd certainly need to be some disambiguation of how far the scope goes (always been invincible? invincible in some games but not others?), I can see this being a perfectly fine category.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Thing is, this would vary horrendously game-by-game, a particularly egregious example being [[Bill Blaster]]. Would we refer to consistently invincible enemies, or enemies that have ever been invincible?
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} I don't see a point to this category. Especially when similar categories got deleted.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} In theory, it's a creative idea, but in practice, not so much. "Invincible" in this regard seems like fancruft at worst and pure inconsistency at best. First of all, some invincible "enemies" are technically obstacles, such as [[Skewer]]s or [[Grinder]]s. Second, enemies that are invincible in some games might not be so powerful in others. Lastly, it's incredibly hard to determine which enemies are hard to defeat and which ones are truly invincible. ([[Choppah]]s from ''[[Super Mario Galaxy 2]]'' are a good example of this.)
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.

===Comments===
@Doc von Schmeltwick: Well, I think in enemies that are invincible in all the games they appear to date, such as the [[Boohemoth]]. {{User:LED42/sig}} 13:59, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea of the category, but wouldn't this fall under rule 15? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 11:41, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

Which rule? I should read it. But I didn't find it. {{User:LED42/sig}} 14:27, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
:Rule 15: "''Unless there is major disagreement about whether certain content should be included, there should not be proposals about creating, expanding, rewriting or otherwise fixing up pages.''" There could be some disagreement about this (Doc's opposing, and I'm not sure where I stand atm), so I think this is fine.
:I do want some clarification: Would this category be used for enemies that have been invincible in at least one game, like the [[Bill Blaster]], or enemies that have only ever been invincible, like [[Boohemoth]]? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:57, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

'''@LED42''' You should place a vote under Support, saying "Per proposal" or something.<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 15:00, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

'''@Alex95''' As I said above, this category would be used for enemies that have been ever invincible; the [[Bill Blaster]] is no longer invincible at all. {{User:LED42/sig}} 16:10, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
:There's a contradiction between "enemies that have been ever invincible" and "the Bill Blaster is no longer invincible". The first statement implies that the category is for enemies who have been invincible for at least one point, whereas the second statement implies that the category is for enemies who have always been invincible. Which is it? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 17:19, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

I'll explain it better. Since ''New Super Mario Bros.'', the Bill Blaster was able to destroy. So it doesn't fit in this category. This category would be for enemies that are completely invincible and impossible to destroy. And those enemies need to be invincible in all the games they appear, so they can be put in this category. An example is the Boohemoth, it is invincible, right? You can be defeated by that enemy even under the effects of a [[Starman]]. So, enemies that can't be defeated in any way, except for the Goal Pole, fit in this category.
{{User:LED42/sig}} 17:35, 1 September 2017 (EDT) {{User:LED42/sig}} 17:35, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

Sorry for the double signature. :P {{User:LED42/sig}} 17:35, 1 September 2017 (EDT)
:I think it would make more sense if the category covered enemies that were invincible in at least one game. Because in games like ''[[Super Mario Bros.]]'', the Bill Blaster IS invincible. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 17:37, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

'''@Alex95''' If you think it will be better, I agree. {{User:LED42/sig}} 18:02, 1 September 2017 (EDT)

==Broggy==

On the page for [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story#Normal Bosses|BIS]], Broggy is listed as a boss. Also, he has the same animation (glows white and explodes) when he is defeated. Should he therefore be moved to the list of bosses page? [[User:MiracleDinner|MiracleDinner]] ([[User talk:MiracleDinner|talk]]) 06:15, July 30, 2019 (EDT)

== Non-game enemies ==

Lately I've been looking at this page and wondering if non-game enemies really need to be here. For reference, the non-game "enemies" I could find are: [[Abominable Snowkoopa]], [[Alien (Club Nintendo)|Alien]], [[Beetle (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!)|Beetle]], [[Big Bad Wolf]], [[Birdoroo]], [[Blanka]], [[Bomb Net]], [[Brutius Maximus Grouchimus]], [[Buro-kun]], [[Buzz-Bomb]], [[Chomp-Muncher]], [[Chuckie]], [[Chun-Li]], [[Clog Monster]], [[Crimewave Clyde]], [[Dhalsim]], [[Dr. Sporis von Fungenstein]], [[Flaky]], [[Fluffy]], [[GLOM]], [[Goomba Mummy]], [[Goomerang Brother]], [[HAL 9001]], [[Herman (The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3)|Herman]], [[Herman Smirch]], [[Iggy (film character)|Iggy]], [[Killer Kitty of the Caskervilles]], [[KKDU]], [[Lena]], [[Madzilla]], [[Mousersaurus Rex]], [[Nicole, Pia, and Balu]], [[Pietro]], [[Piranha Sue]], [[Plant Monster]], [[Queen Rotunda]], [[Robo Shyguy]], [[Robo Troopa]], [[Robot Princess]], [[Sergeant Kooperman]], [[Shisai]], [[Shyguy Lion]], [[Sickobratz]], [[Space Troopa]], [[Spider (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!)|Spider]], [[Spike (film character)|Spike]], [[Stanley the Talking Fish]], [[State Troopa]], [[Stormtroopa]], [[Sultan Pasbah]], [[Super Troopa]], [[T-Rex (character)|T-Rex]], [[Tweeter Bat]], [[Tyrannosaurus Twins]], [[Vampa White]], [[Wereturtle]], [[Zangief]], and [[Zombie Goomba]]. While some of these do function as typical enemies in their appearances, others are much less clear cut - apparently all you have to do to make it onto this list is be a mildly antagonistic character. Some characters, like the Big Bad Wolf and Crimewave Clyde, never even come into direct conflict with Mario and co. and actually help them later. What makes the Street Fighter characters enemies rather than bosses? Why is Stanley the Talking Fish an enemy when the worst thing he does is unintentionally annoy people?

[[Big Paragoomba]] has its first appearance listed as The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3, which could either be changed to their first game appearance (Super Mario Galaxy 2) for consistency or left alone. [[Dr. Wily]] does this as well, although to what degree an Assist Trophy counts as an enemy is debatable. Another odd case is [[Fryguy (species)]], which obviously is in the games but only appears as a full species in comics - but given that Fryguy only ever appears in the games as a boss, it might be better to remove them too. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:38, February 19, 2020 (EST)

== Suggestions for adding a list ==

I think Spiny Egg can be added to this list.--[[Special:Contributions/125.12.33.204|125.12.33.204]] 00:50, April 24, 2020 (EDT)

*I think so, too.  It was treated as an enemy as far as the score display at the goal was seen, and it was clearly an enemy at [[Super Mario Maker]]. --[[Special:Contributions/36.11.224.59|36.11.224.59]] 00:19, April 26, 2020 (EDT)

*True, they become enemies as soon as they land on the ground, and have emerged as enemies underwater in Super Mario Maker. I think adding it to this list is okay.--[[Special:Contributions/126.33.196.18|126.33.196.18]] 06:14, May 1, 2020 (EDT)
::It's been added. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:28, May 1, 2020 (EDT)

== Are these enemies? ==
Related to the above, [[Spinner]] and [[Fire Bar]] seem inappropriate to put on this list because they’re more obstacles than enemies. —[[Special:Contributions/111.239.157.234|111.239.157.234]] 02:07, May 3, 2020 (EDT)

I think so, too.  If you put them in, I think you also need to put in a cannon and a burner. --[[Special:Contributions/125.12.25.229|125.12.25.229]] 00:46, July 2, 2020 (EDT)

If you are including obstacle on the List of Enemies, the the Grumblumps from Mario 3D World should be included as well. {{User:BackfireFirst}}

== Kug ==

Should kug, or kugg, the unused enemy from super mario sunshine be on this list? [[User:Bobster|Bobster]] ([[User talk:Bobster|talk]]) 21:44, June 12, 2020 (EDT)

It was unused, so therefore it’s not a Mario enemy. It can’t be, because it doesn’t exist in the Mario Universe.

== Trim this list to only include enemies in games ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|7-8-0|remove non-game enemies but keep first appearances in non-game media if applicable}}
I first brought this up almost a year ago, but didn't get any replies so here we go, time for a proposal. Having enemies on this list that don't appear at all in games makes their inclusion somewhat confusing, and I propose removing them. While some of the articles that would be removed under this act more like traditional enemies, others are simply antagonistic characters that made their way onto this list for some reason. For example, according to this list [[Pietro|some guy]] who tries to trick Mario and Luigi into thinking he's their long-lost brother is apparently an enemy. Other characters currently on this list don't actually come into conflict with Mario and co. at all, and some of them even end up helping them. The reason I'm suggesting an all-or-nothing approach is that, without the mechanics of the games to help us determine who actually qualifies as an enemy, trying to include only some of them would be a more subjective process.

Now there's one additional complication, and that's the fact that a few large enemy variants actually first appeared in other media, mainly Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyushutsu Dai Sakusen and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3. For consistency with the logic in this proposal, I suggest limiting them to their first ''in-game'' appearance, but I have also included an option to keep their first overall appearance listed on this page (Remove non-game enemies but keep first appearances in other media).

Articles that would be removed from this list include: [[Abominable Snowkoopa]], [[Alien (Club Nintendo)|Alien]], [[Beetle (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!)|Beetle]], [[Big Bad Wolf]], [[Birdoroo]], [[Blanka]], [[Bomb Net]], [[Brutius Maximus Grouchimus]], [[Buro-kun]], [[Buzz-Bomb]], [[Chomp-Muncher]], [[Chuckie]], [[Chun-Li]], [[Clog Monster]], [[Crimewave Clyde]], [[Dhalsim]], [[Dr. Sporis von Fungenstein]], [[Dr. Wily]], [[Flaky]], [[Fluffy]], [[GLOM]], [[Goomba (zombie)]], [[Goomba Mummy]], [[Goomerang Brother]], [[HAL 9001]], [[Herman (The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3)|Herman]], [[Herman Smirch]], [[Iggy (film character)|Iggy]], [[Killer Kitty of the Caskervilles]], [[KKDU]], [[Lena]], [[Madzilla]], [[Mousersaurus Rex]], [[Nicole, Pia, and Balu]], [[Pietro]], [[Piranha Sue]], [[Plant Monster]], [[Queen Rotunda]], [[Robo Shyguy]], [[Robo Troopa]], [[Robot Princess]], [[Sergeant Kooperman]], [[Shisai]], [[Shyguy Lion]], [[Sickobratz]], [[Space Troopa]], [[Spider (The Super Mario Bros. Super Show!)|Spider]], [[Spike (film character)|Spike]], [[Stanley the Talking Fish]], [[State Troopa]], [[Stormtroopa]], [[Sultan Pasbah]], [[Super Troopa]], [[T-Rex (character)|T-Rex]], [[Tweeter Bat]], [[Tyrannosaurus Twins]], [[Vampa White]], [[Wereturtle]], and [[Zangief]]

'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 24, 2021, 23:59 GMT

===Remove all references to non-game media===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Too bad, Waluigi time.
#{{User|Shiny K-Troopa}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Ray Trace}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal. I've actually been meaning to do something like this for years now, but never got around to it.
#{{User|Keyblade Master}} It just seems unnecessary.
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Scrooge200}} I can't think of any enemies that have debuted in a show or something and then reappeared in the games. This just makes more sense.

===Remove non-game enemies but keep first appearances in other media===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} My second choice.
#{{User|7feetunder}} This is a list of ''enemies'', not a list of antagonists. On the other hand, we should at least mention if an enemy debuted outside of a game, then list their first game appearance, sort of like what we do with crossover characters like Link and Sonic (list their first appearance overall, then their first ''Mario'' appearance). Not doing so is outright misleading.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} While keeping ones that are not in games at all needlessly stretches the definition of "enemy," not listing a recurring enemy's true debut because it isn't a game is disingenuous.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I don't know how this got larger than the species list, so trimming is necessary; at the same time, "other media" is specified in the current article.
#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} This option is much more accurate. I also think we should then list their first game appearance, like 7FeetUnder mentioned. Per all.
#{{User|BackfireFirst}} I agree, including enemies from other forms of media doesn’t make sense. Including articles about them in the wiki makes sense, because it is Mario-Related media, but including it in the list of enemies doesn’t.
#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per all.

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
@Scrooge200: There's Big Paragoomba and Mega Bob-omb which debuted in ''The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3'', and Big Koopa Troopa, Big Cheep Cheep, and Big Buzzy Beetle which debuted in ''Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyushutsu Dai Sakusen!'', to name a few. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 19:07, January 22, 2021 (EST)

== Missing Enemies ==

Someone should add the Golden Patakuribō from New Super Mario Bros. 2. [[User:TurkeyCookTime|TurkeyCookTime]] ([[User talk:TurkeyCookTime|talk]]) 22:23, October 4, 2021 (EDT)

And the Grumblump from Super Mario 3D World.  I will keep adding to this if I find any more missing [[User:TurkeyCookTime|TurkeyCookTime]] ([[User talk:TurkeyCookTime|talk]]) 22:27, October 4, 2021 (EDT)
:Go ahead and add them yourself. No one's stopping you. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 00:10, October 5, 2021 (EDT)

== Inconsistent enemies ==

I've noticed that many games' pages are inconsistent with what are considered "enemies". Like for example, things like Fire Bars are listed with "enemies" on some pages, "objects" on others, and sometimes not even listed at all.  We should really decide whether things like this are "enemies" or not. [[User:TurkeyCookTime|TurkeyCookTime]] ([[User talk:TurkeyCookTime|talk]]) 10:24, September 18, 2022 (EDT)

== The ultimate proposal for division of variants ==

{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|cancelled}}
Well, this is probably my most important proposal so far. I designed this proposal to address a problem that has existed for a long time on the wiki: the separation of enemies that are variants of different colors or different appearances. This has been a huge problem for the wiki, causing very questionable mergers and splits, causing arguments between users. For my part, I find it unfair that, for example, enemy variants with different names and different functions are merged because they are the same individuals, while other enemies, such as Sub-Goomba and Itsunomanika Heihō, are split, having minimal changes compared to their original variants.

The proposal is simple: for an enemy to have its own page, it must meet at least two of the following rules:

1. It must have different mechanics than the original variant

2. It must have a different appearance than the original variant

3. It must have been recognized by Nintendo as a separate enemy on official pages or guides

4. It must have a different name in Japanese and other languages

5. If it appears in more than one game, it must be considered a separate enemy in at least 50% or more of its appearances to get its own page. Ex: Biddybud Red/Blue/Yellow no

but Green Koopa/Red Koopa yes.


Above the comments section there will be a list of enemies that will be divided that will be updated over time, if you want to add one, add it, it would help me as long as you take into account the rules above.


'''Proposer''': {{User|Sorbetti}}<br>
'''Deadline''': March 30, 2025, 23:59 GMT

===Support the proposal and start splitting===
#{{User|Sorbetti}} Per proposal.

===Oppose and leave the wiki as it is===
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} To be honest, this proposal feels hastily written, especially considering someone else is working on a more detailed version of this, so I have to oppose.

===List of enemies that will be divided=== 
1.Koopa Troopa= Green Koopa, Red Koopa, Yellow Koopa, Blue Koopa, Mask Koopa
===Comments, suggestions and questions===
I had already shared this with Sorbetti on their talk page, but I have been working with another user on a very similar policy proposal for multiple months. The (mostly complete, but still <u>unfinished</u>) draft can be viewed [[User:Nintendo101/flowerpot|here]]. It is aimed at clarifying our enemy coverage on the site, and would create the breathing room for colored variants to receive their own articles. The draft I have been working on has been a very big time commitment and incorporates some nuances not reflected in Sorbetti's proposal, and I asked them if they would be willing to withdraw there's. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:40, March 16, 2025 (EDT)
:I understand, in that case I will cancel this proposal and wait for a more detailed one from you.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]]) 15:44, March 16, 2025 (EDT)