Editing Talk:List of cartoon voice actors

Wait, I'm confused. There was a proposal back in 2010 that said the voice actors would get their own pages. So why exactly do we have this page? [[User:GreenDisaster|GreenDisaster]] 17:11, 6 March 2012 (EST)

It is a list. There are some links to the actors pages but some don't have links because they are minor and if we created pages for them they would be stubs.{{User:YoshiGo99/sig}}

One, there was a proposal that agreed not to make an article like this. Two, short article does not equal stub. [[User:GreenDisaster|GreenDisaster]] 20:52, 6 March 2012 (EST)
:He's right if a proposal said make these articles than we need to make these articles {{User|Raven Effect}}

== The point of this article? ==

Wouldn't it be just better if the voice actors were listed in the respective credits section of the cartoons rather than having this awkward standalone list? I'm surprised this list even exists. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 16:34, 6 October 2015 (EDT)

==Delete this article==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|7-2|delete}}
This article seems to have arose from a misunderstanding, but even if it was agreed to be created on, this article is poor quality, pointless, and inconsistent, since we don't have any related lists such as "list of live-action actors" or anything like that. Useful information in this article can be salvaged in the respective credits articles or in short, individual articles (if information is sufficient, of course). This will not create stubs, as stubs are articles with ''insufficient'' information. But overall, I think we should delete this page.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Bazooka Mario}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 23, 2015 23:59 (GMT)

===Support===
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}}
#{{User|Roy Koopa}} PP. (per proposal)
#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal. Besides, weren't the voice actors supposed to have their own pages?
#{{User|Corrin}} Per proposal. A category  is a far better way to list something like this, in my opinion.
#{{User|Yoshi876}} Per all.
#{{User|Green6017 Guy}} Per all.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Andymii}} I'm flexible about this, so feel free to try to convince me to change my opinion. However, as of now I think that the argument that "useful information in this article can be salvaged in the respective credits articles or in short, individual articles" doesn't hold much water. ''All'' lists have information have can be found in specific articles, including one of the wiki's most important pages, [[list of characters]]. I mean, that's the point of a list. Okay, ''technically'' one could go to Mario's page directed to see who voice acted him, but lists were never meant to be an information hub; rather, they are meant to be a junction. Say you want to know who voiced all Koopalings, but you don't want to look at each Koopaling page individually. Such a list would be super useful, and provide a direct junction to whatever voice actor you happen to be interested in, all in about 30 seconds. Without the list? Probably ten minutes. You may argue that this is an unlikely occurrence, but that is really what lists are for in the first place, if you think about it. You may notice the current format isn't optimal for this kind of time-saving, which is a shame. But that can be fixed! Though the list may be in poor repair, and in its current condition utterly useless, as I have argued in the past, that means ''fix'' the article, not outright delete it. In conclusion, I think such lists can serve as a great timesaver if done correctly and if the time calls for it. And for the quality? 'Shroom Spotlight's always a viable option.
#{{User|Warioad}} I'm with Andymii on this. Given the proper formatting, this could be much more useful than it is.

===Comments===
Andymii: I'm not saying that this being a list alone makes it an invalid article. Lists are intended to be a convenient, neat source of condensed information as well as junction (besides, nav templates and categories accomplish this too). This list is poorly written and does not do a good job at conveying its information. On top of that, it's a useless throwaway list. If you want to look at who voiced each Koopaling in the cartoon, you can always check the credits section of the respective cartoon they're in, which is more convenient. And for the games, look in the respective credits in those. If there is no credits, then create a page on the credits. Finally, this article is pretty inconsistent since "voice actors" is not a special role that requires an article compiling each and every voice actor; that's actually better off as a category. I'm up for improving anything that is poorly done (such as [[genre]]), but I honestly don't see the utility of this list. Finally, if you want a mere convenient list, we always have [[:Category:Voice Actors|categories]]. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 23:03, 10 October 2015 (EDT)
:Okay, if we're replacing this page with a voice actor's category, I'm totally fine with this proposal. Only if we're doing something like that, though.  --[[User:Andymii|Andymii]] ([[User talk:Andymii|talk]]) 12:41, 11 October 2015 (EDT)
::But such category already [[:Category:Voice Actors|exists]]. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 15:36, 11 October 2015 (EDT)
In that case, great! But its nowhere near perfect. We could further have a sub-category (I don't know what they are called) of cartoon voice actors. I think we should distinguish between the people who voice act in the cartoons and the people voice act in the games. Also, the problem with the category (not that anything can be done, which is why an editable list would be ''particularly'' helpful) is that '''you can't see who voices who.'''

For example: you want to know who voiced Mario, Luigi, and Wario. You go the the category page. You see a bunch of guy's names. Not useful at all. Now, if we had a list that was actually useful (not the current state of this one), you would be actually able to figure out who voiced whom.

In conclusion, I want this list to exist, but I want it to exist properly, and actually be useful. We can tweak it, fix it, and improve it- but not delete it. --[[User:Andymii|Andymii]] ([[User talk:Andymii|talk]]) 19:37, 11 October 2015 (EDT)
:A simpler solution to would be to add a "voiced by" section to every character page that links off to the relevant voice actors. I'm surprised we didn't think to do that in a more than passing capacity before now. Putting the onus on articles to contain links to relevant information takes eliminates the need to make the category tree further cumbersome or otherwise making single purpose supplementary articles. -- [[User:Ghost Jam|Ghost Jam]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 19:51, 11 October 2015 (EDT)
::I thought we had a "list of portrayals" section in some character articles. Andymii's concern is that readers shouldn't have to click through several pages to find out the voice actors, so this page may come in handy. Again, to respond to Andymii, I don't think this page is necessary, well-written or not, for reasons I've stated earlier. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 19:52, 12 October 2015 (EDT)

Ok SO, I looked for the supposed 2010 proposal that said each voice actor was supposed to get an article that has been mentioned once here so far and a few times in the discussion at top. Funny thing, it doesn't seem to exist. I've found two proposals related to voice actors. One from [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/5#Merge_Cartoon_Voice_Actors|late 2007]] that passed for the merging of all cartoon voice actors. Then another one from [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/24#Merge_the_Minor_Voice_Actors_together|fall 2010]] that failed, about merging all minor voice actors together. Perhaps that second one could have benefited from a bit more discussion, as the two examples of minor voice actors given are cartoon voice actors that should have been merged, seeing as the 2008 proposal hadn't been overturned (and still hasn't). -- [[User:Ghost Jam|Ghost Jam]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 04:02, 12 October 2015 (EDT)