Editing Talk:List of Notices in Super Smash Bros. Brawl

{{Tobedeleted}}
Is this page really necessary? I realize we're a comprehensive guide to the ''Mario series'', but aren't minor things like this pushing it? Perhaps we could include this info on the individual character/item/stage articles, but do we need a separate list for this?--{{User|Knife}} 18:11, 3 January 2012 (EST)
:Theoretically, we'd have this info on the character or stage article lists, so it does seem redundant and unimportant; I support its deletion as well. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
::Per Bop, I support deleting it as well. {{User:Nintendo64Fan/sig}}

I think it is useful to have a list of all the Notices in one spot. The more information on this wiki, the better! What if a [[player]] wanted to check this website to see if they had all the Notices? It would be a lot of extra trouble for someone to track down 50 articles, and they wouldn't even know if that was all the Notices. You can copy this information to other articles, if you want.
--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 12:36, 5 January 2012 (EST)
:Well, let's say a reader comes here looking for the notice that appears when Character A appears. Now, they check Character A's article and finds the info there. They decide to see if there's similarities between some of them, so they check Character B's article. They find the info there, and a trend is set. They can then check all the character articles they are curious about. Basically, our navigation doesn't suffer from just having them on character or stage pages, despite the fact that yes, having them all in one place is slightly more convenient. This aspect is very minor in the grand scheme of things and not really worth having them all in one place just for convenience's sake. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

But if everything is on one article, then a reader may notice a Notice for something they didn't know had a Notice, or could even be unlocked in the first place.  As I said before, players can use this article to check if they unlocked all the Notices in the game.  Also, since [[Mario]] is a major character in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]], the game is in the Mario series. In that case, it should be treated like any other Mario game and have as much information about it as possible.
--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 13:24, 5 January 2012 (EST)
:Unlockables are covered extensively in other areas, and you don't "unlock" messages, even if they're recorded somewhere in the game. And as for the importance issue, [[MarioWiki:Coverage]] classifies this as a spin-off, so we really only try to cover necessary topics in this series. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

I think this is necessary.--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 13:55, 5 January 2012 (EST)
:By what reasoning? This is an extremely minor topic and its information would work just as well on the unlockable articles in terms of navigation, so I don't see any reason to keep this article. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

YOU may not think this article is  worth keeping, but it is certainly not worth deleting. This is useful information to some people, even if you are not interested. If convenience is all that will be affected, you may as well keep this article.--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 15:03, 6 January 2012 (EST)
:There were sound arguments for deleting this based on facts, not opinion. My personal interest in the topic is irrelevant, and I didn't base it off that. Convenience alone is not a reason why we have articles here in most cases, unless there is good reasoning to back it up. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

@Star knight: Things like this are extremely minor, even for Mario series games. What if we had an article about every in-game message from every game? It seems like a waste of space and it creates inconsistencies because some games will receive more attention than others. While MarioWiki is more specific with it's articles than general wiki sites like Wikipedia, '''we don't cover every single minor aspect either'''. There's also the issue that this article covers a minor aspect in a series of tertiary importance. Smashwiki can be more elaborate with issues like tier lists, meta game, and in-game notices, that's why they have a separate wiki. We used to have even have separate pages for every single character's special move. Most other Nintendo wikis don't even have separate pages for SSB characters. It's kind of ridiculous how much coverage we allow the SSB series as it is and articles like this push limits.--{{User|Knife}} 14:07, 7 January 2012 (EST)

:Knife is right. There's already [[smashwiki:Main Page|Smash Wiki]] part of the NIWA, so it may be an idea to delete this page from ''this'' wiki, and someone who has an account on Smash Wiki can make a copy of this page over there. {{User:SKmarioman/sig}}

It would be helpful to have this information on both wikis, so someone can have multiple sources.--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 18:02, 9 January 2012 (EST)

P.S. Before anyone comments here, they should at least skim the article. --[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 18:04, 9 January 2012 (EST)

==Delete List of Notices in Super Smash Bros. Brawl==
{{TPP}}
Based on my arguments above, I feel this page should be deleted. In case you don't want to read them, let me summarize them.

#This article is about an extremely minor subject.
#The article is giving way too much focus to a minor aspect of a tertiary series.
#The information here is already covered at Smashwiki and there's no reason to copy the information here.
#The SSB series already have extensive coverage as it is already, with trophy information and sticker information. Allowing this stretches our coverage too wide.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Knife}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 24, 2012 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Knife}} &ndash; Per proposal.
#{{User|ThePremiumYoshi}} - Per Knife. Simple messages like those notices really should not have an article.
#{{User|Bop1996}} Per the arguments for deleting above. This article is basically just a collection of info that could just as easily go on the articles for the characters or stages that are unlockable, and the info is very minor in our overall coverage. The only real benefit to keeping this is convenience, and that's only a very minor increase in convenience, which isn't worth it compared to the reasons for deleting.
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per Knife.
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too minor. Per Knife.
#{{User|Nintendo64Fan}} Per Knife
#{{User|Tails777}} I fail to see the use of this article, plus have of this is already listed on the Super Smash Bros Brawl article. Per all.
#{{User|B.wilson}} Poorly written game guide-like article, we are a Mario encyclopedia, not a game guide - there could be a million other reasons why this page does not deserve its place, but this reason already is clear why this page should be deleted. The oppose !vote does not show any valid argument to not delete it.
#{{User|RandomYoshi}} - Per Bop.
#{{User|Commander Code-8}} I don't see a particular reason why this page is nescesary. Per all

====Oppose====
#{{User|Star knight}} It is useful to have this information, since the Notices listed here are saved in the game, and players can use this article to check and see if they have accomplished everything that has a Notice. If this information was spread across 50 articles, then players won't be able to check if they acquired all the Notices. One reason I use this wiki is to check if I accomplished everything I can in a video game. As for the minority of this topic, I quote the [[MarioWiki: Coverage]] article: "The Super Mario Wiki is a database focused on '''all''' aspects of the Mario series, '''including''' spin-off series and cross-over series." This article has information about an aspect of the game. If this is an encyclopedia, then it should have as much information as possible.

====Comments====
There is not a list of Notices on the [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] article.--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 21:52, 12 January 2012 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
+{{Tobedeleted}}
 Is this page really necessary? I realize we're a comprehensive guide to the ''Mario series'', but aren't minor things like this pushing it? Perhaps we could include this info on the individual character/item/stage articles, but do we need a separate list for this?--{{User|Knife}} 18:11, 3 January 2012 (EST)
 :Theoretically, we'd have this info on the character or stage article lists, so it does seem redundant and unimportant; I support its deletion as well. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
 ::Per Bop, I support deleting it as well. {{User:Nintendo64Fan/sig}}
-I think it is useful to have a list of all the Notices in one spot. The more information on this wiki, the better! What if a player wanted to check this website to see if they had all the Notices? It would be a lot of extra trouble for someone to track down 50 articles, and they wouldn't even know if that was all the Notices. You can copy this information to other articles, if you want.
+I think it is useful to have a list of all the Notices in one spot. The more information on this wiki, the better! What if a [[player]] wanted to check this website to see if they had all the Notices? It would be a lot of extra trouble for someone to track down 50 articles, and they wouldn't even know if that was all the Notices. You can copy this information to other articles, if you want.
 --[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 12:36, 5 January 2012 (EST)
 :Well, let's say a reader comes here looking for the notice that appears when Character A appears. Now, they check Character A's article and finds the info there. They decide to see if there's similarities between some of them, so they check Character B's article. They find the info there, and a trend is set. They can then check all the character articles they are curious about. Basically, our navigation doesn't suffer from just having them on character or stage pages, despite the fact that yes, having them all in one place is slightly more convenient. This aspect is very minor in the grand scheme of things and not really worth having them all in one place just for convenience's sake. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
@@ Line 26: / Line 27: @@
 ==Delete List of Notices in Super Smash Bros. Brawl==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|17-3|support}}
 Based on my arguments above, I feel this page should be deleted. In case you don't want to read them, let me summarize them.
@@ Line 49: / Line 49: @@
 #{{User|RandomYoshi}} - Per Bop.
 #{{User|Commander Code-8}} I don't see a particular reason why this page is nescesary. Per all
-#{{User|Skyward Yoshi}} We don't have a page for unlocking things in Mario Kart Wii.
-#{{User|M&SG}} - Not exactly major enough to keep hold of.  Besides, you can just go [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Notices here] to view the notices.
-#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per all, particularly Bop and Bryce. Finding something convenient/useful isn't good enough to keep an article on its own. Furthermore, while it is indeed stated that we cover all aspects of crossovers, we would not suffer for a lack of relatively minor info such as this. If notice lists have not been kept for other games, then there is no need to keep this one if we wish to maintain consistency.
-#{{User|YoshiKong}} This subject is not needed for an individual article, since it is not directly Mario related, as mentioned in [[MarioWiki:Coverage]]. This should be moved to [http://www.ssbwiki.com/Main_Page Smash Wiki].
-#{{User|Raven Effect}} Per all
-#{{User|SuperFireBowserJr.}} That's what SmashWiki is for.
-#{{User|Akfamilyhome}} SmashWiki can do the job. Per all.
 ====Oppose====
-#{{User|Star knight}} It is useful to have this information, since the Notices listed here are saved in the game, and players can use this article to check and see if they have accomplished everything that has a Notice. If this information was spread across 50 articles, then players won't be able to check if they acquired all the Notices. One reason I use this wiki is to check if I accomplished everything I can in a video game. As for the minority of this topic, I quote the [[MarioWiki: Coverage]] article: "The Super Mario Wiki is a database focused on '''all''' aspects of the Mario series, '''including''' spin-off series and cross-over series." This article has information about an aspect of the game. If this is an encyclopedia, then it should have as much information as possible. Whether or not these reasons seem valid, the arguments for deleting are even less valid. Most say that this topic is minor. Since we should cover all aspects of games, the minority of topics really doesn't matter. People have also said that this gives to much coverage to the [[Super Smash Bros. series]]. Well, since Mario characters play a major role in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] (8 are playable), this game is in the [[Mario series]], or is at least a crossover game; therefore, all aspects of the game should be covered. Additionally, this article is far more organized than the one on the Super Smash Bros. wiki.
+#{{User|Star knight}} It is useful to have this information, since the Notices listed here are saved in the game, and players can use this article to check and see if they have accomplished everything that has a Notice. If this information was spread across 50 articles, then players won't be able to check if they acquired all the Notices. One reason I use this wiki is to check if I accomplished everything I can in a video game. As for the minority of this topic, I quote the [[MarioWiki: Coverage]] article: "The Super Mario Wiki is a database focused on '''all''' aspects of the Mario series, '''including''' spin-off series and cross-over series." This article has information about an aspect of the game. If this is an encyclopedia, then it should have as much information as possible.
-#{{User|Mario7}} This useful because it shows how to unlock stuff, which I find very useful
-#{{User|Mr.C}} Per Star Knight.
 ====Comments====
 There is not a list of Notices on the [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] article.--[[User:Star knight|Star knight]] 21:52, 12 January 2012 (EST)
-<blockquote>Whether or not these reasons seem valid, the arguments for deleting are even less valid. Most say that this topic is minor. Since we should cover all aspects of games, the minority of topics really doesn't matter. People have also said that this gives to much coverage to the [[Super Smash Bros. series]]. Well, since Mario characters play a major role in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]] (8 are playable), this game is in the [[Mario series]], or is at least a crossover game; therefore, all aspects of the game should be covered. Additionally, this article is far more organized than the one on the Super Smash Bros. wiki.</blockquote>
-::The Smash Bros. series is considered to be a crossover series involving Mario and several other series, not a game in the ''Mario'' series of one of its spin-off series. Mario characters do appear in Smash Bros. games, so we cover the Mario-related elements of the series, and the really major elements (like other fighters) from other series as part of our coverage. We do try to keep the really minor aspects of this series on other articles or trimmed down, so that's why we don't cover tiers or things like that. We have an affiliate in NIWA that provides coverage on all the minor aspects of this series, so leaving an article about something highly minor like this here is highly unnecessary. Btw, the SmashWiki article is very well-organized and easy to find information on, so I'd rather read that, but that's just my opinion. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
-(reset indent) Oppose !votes are exceedingly unconvincing. MarioWiki is an encyclopedia, '''not a blog nor a game guide'''. --{{User|B.wilson}} 23:09, 18 January 2012 (EST)
-:I agree with B. Wilson in fact i'm pretty sure theres a page that literally says were not a Game Guide {{User|Raven Effect}}
-The fact that we wouldn't suffer without an article is not a reason to delete it. Also, this article was not intended to be a game guide; it is simply stating facts.
-:This page is a non-encyclopedic page bordering on a game guide. [[User:B.wilson/List of Notices in Super Smash Bros. Brawl|I've userfied the page as well]]. --{{User|B.wilson}}
-If this passes, we should keep this page because it is a record of a past talk page proposal. I also think that other passed delete proposals should also be restored so people can see the proposals. {{User|Skyward Yoshi}}
-:Looks like it's going to pass, seeing as it's past deadline day in EST. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] 07:46, 25 January 2012 (EST)
-@StarKnight They can look it up on SmashWiki --{{User|Superfiremario}} 11:59, 22 January 2012 (EST)