Editing Talk:Limbo Bro

==Sledge variant?==
{{talk}}
{{multiframe|[[File:SMAS SMB3-SledgeBro sprite.png|40px|bottom]][[File:MLSSHammerBro.gif|bottom]][[File:MLSSLimboBroGuffawha.gif|bottom]][[File:MLSSChompBroWeakened.gif|bottom]]}}
{{multiframe|[[File:SledgeBro NSMB2.png|bottom]][[File:MLSSBMHammerBro.png|bottom]][[File:MLSSBMLimboBro.png|bottom]][[File:MLSSBMChompBroWeakened.png|bottom]]}}
As the article points out (and already pointed out before my recent slight rewrite), this enemy bears more than a passing resemblance to [[Sledge Bro]], though we don't list it as derivative of it. The problem is, in the original MLSS, the normal Hammer Bros. were designed in such a way that ''also'' resembled Sledge Bros., just not quite as much (and smaller than Limbo Bros.; themselves slightly smaller than the more muscley Chomp Bros., as seen by the images to the right). In the remake, Hammer Bros. look more normal and these keep a Sledge Bro-like design, though that obviously has to do with not having a "normal" design to fall back to (though they decided to split the Boomerang Bros...). Anyways, I'm looking for consensus of whether we should continue treating this simply as a Hammer Bro derivative or more specifically as one for Sledge Bro. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:31, September 9, 2024 (EDT)
:I guess considering my comments on the Border Bros page it shouldn't be surprising that I disagree with this. First off, because I'm still (admittedly without much evidence for or against) convinced that the Hammer Bro sprite resembling a Sledge Bro is because it was originally intended to be one, due to the unused green-body-and-black-shell palette. But also, I'd say that the off-model-ness of this game's sprites is a bit overstated? Sure, there are a lot of weird designs for stuff like the Starshade Bros and Border Bros, and then there's the Toads, which... what even happened there. But regular recurring enemies otherwise tend to look reasonably on-model. Goombas, Spinies, Rexes, Magikoopas, etc. Granted, there are the Boomerang Bros, which... no idea what happened there, but they have leaves on their heads, so they're clearly not intended to be regular Boomerang Bros in the first place. And even putting aside my weird theory, the Sledge Bro's whole distinguishing gimmick is that they're so heavy that they shake the ground. Yet what does the Minion Quest profile for Limbo Bros say about them? That "Their bodies are much lighter than they appear." [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:11, September 14, 2024 (EDT)
::Honestly MLSS's Hammer Bro looks more like a normal Hammer Bro hunched over (and there was also Dry Bones and Fighter Flies having weird designs, along with whatever was going on with Bowser's overworld sprites in Western releases). I'd say the "lighter than it looks" note seems like an intentional subversion of the enemy it resembles. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:19, September 14, 2024 (EDT)
:::Going by the original game only, I'd say Limbo Bros. are most related to those Hammer Bros. Limbo Bros. are more bottom-heavy, contrasting Chomp Bro's top-heaviness (and bean Boomerang Bro's thinness) and, off-game, Sledge Bro's general heaviness. In addition to the body types, you can also go by height, and that's where the remake comes in. Not counting their helmets, Hammer Bro and Limbo Bro are roughly the same height in the remake. Sledge Bros. aren't just supposed to be fatter, but also taller - they're supposed to be the "big" Hammer Bros. I would guess that Sledge Bro would be depicted as bigger than Chomp Bro, but since we can only speculate, the simplest solution would be to just keep things as is. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:09, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
{{multiframe|[[File:NSMBHammerBro.png|bottom]][[File:NSMBSumoBro.png|bottom]]}}
::::Issue there is while there was indeed a huge size difference in SMB3, most "modern" games depict them as either about the same height or very, very close to it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:18, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::::That may be a ''New Super Mario Bros.'' thing since the size difference is back in the 3D and ''Super Mario Maker'' games. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:42, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::::What 3D games are you referring to? Pretty sure they're about the same size in ''Mario Kart Wii''{{'}}s background. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:53, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::You can Sledge Bros. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNpqmWtuyhY&t=50s here] being noticeably much taller in the crowd, whereas Hammer Bros. are about Toad height. But anyway, the most relevant game at the time of ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'''s development was ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', especially considering ''Super Mario Advance 4'' had just released months prior. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:00, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Yes, and Limbo and Chomp Bros. are about as tall as normal enemies get in the game (which isn't much), while Hammer Bros. are more middling-sized. You have to keep in mind what they were working with, they can only be so big when several enemies need to appear on a tiny screen at once, on a system that has a limited number of tiles that can be stored and displayed on-screen at once. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:05, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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 ::::::What 3D games are you referring to? Pretty sure they're about the same size in ''Mario Kart Wii''{{'}}s background. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:53, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
 :::::::You can Sledge Bros. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNpqmWtuyhY&t=50s here] being noticeably much taller in the crowd, whereas Hammer Bros. are about Toad height. But anyway, the most relevant game at the time of ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga'''s development was ''Super Mario Bros. 3'', especially considering ''Super Mario Advance 4'' had just released months prior. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:00, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::Yes, and Limbo and Chomp Bros. are about as tall as normal enemies get in the game (which isn't much), while Hammer Bros. are more middling-sized. You have to keep in mind what they were working with, they can only be so big when several enemies need to appear on a tiny screen at once, on a system that has a limited number of tiles that can be stored and displayed on-screen at once. That's the main reason I'm focusing more on bodily proportions here (besides, then there's things like MP10's Sledge Bro which is utterly enormous - I'll concede I [https://noclip.website/#mkwii/senior_course;ShareData=ACO*0UB~Gi8@mL}Uk(IT=slh;QJAnnUst1eT:2n*V7^N~9h0uC874ApT*|t_Vt misremembered the MKW situation]). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:05, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
+::::::::Yes, and Limbo and Chomp Bros. are about as tall as normal enemies get in the game (which isn't much), while Hammer Bros. are more middling-sized. You have to keep in mind what they were working with, they can only be so big when several enemies need to appear on a tiny screen at once, on a system that has a limited number of tiles that can be stored and displayed on-screen at once. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:05, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::Factoring the proportions also makes Limbo Bro's scrawny limbs more comparable to bean Boomerang Bro's. Though honestly, now that I think about it, the Hammer and Chomp Bros. are only found in Bowser's Castle, right? That's why they aren't bean-themed. As Blinker brought up, there was an [[tcrf:Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga/Unused Graphics#Enemies|unused design]]. Just a theory, but I think that "bean" design is the missing link that was meant to be found in the Beanbean Kingdom, i.e. Yo, Limbo, and 'Boomerang' Bros. were intended to be derived from whatever Hammer Bro's standard bean variant was supposed to be. The remake partly corrected this with Beanerang Bro, but there's still no non-bean-themed Yo or Limbo Bro, <s>or bean-themed Chomp Bro</s>. Or, maybe that's reading too much into it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:37, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::Chomp Bro ''does'' have bean-theming in the original game, though: its "sailor tattoo" shows the same sprout that the others wear on their person in some manner (Boomerang's helmet, Yo's hat, Limbo's amulet/earpiece things). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:40, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::::::Oh dang, guess I always mistook that for an anchor tattoo... The bean didn't fit in with the rest of the Bowser's Castle enemies. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:50, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::::::::It's perhaps not coincidental that it, Sniper Bill, and Gunner Guy aren't treated as "Bowser's Minions" in the remake (though of course it probably has more to do with them being original to the game). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:55, October 9, 2024 (EDT)