Editing Talk:Lakitu in a Pipe

Where does the name "'''Pipe Lakitu'''" come from? - [[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] 19:52, 7 June 2012 (EDT)

Probably from them being a Lakitu in a Pipe. -GloopMaster
* I mean the official source where the name comes from. Is '''Pipe Lakitu''' its official name? [[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] ([[User talk:Zakor1138|talk]]) 21:48, 5 November 2012 (EST)
:Pretty much every enemy in ''Super Mario World'' is named during the ending credits. I would assume the name comes from there. -- [[User:1337star|1337star]] <sup>([[User talk:1337star|Mailbox SP]])</sup> 23:50, 5 November 2012 (EST)
::Well, its not. I again ask where the name comes from. [[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] ([[User talk:Zakor1138|talk]]) 14:34, 27 December 2012 (EST)

Actually, its official name is... "Lakitu in a Pipe" (''Mario Mania'', page 50). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:28, 10 October 2014 (EDT)
:A name is a name. Regardless of how silly it may be, it's still more official than what we've got. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}

== Merge with Lakitu? ==
Found some pictures, and the [[Super Mario Encyclopedia]] treats them as the same enemy each other. (the book was originally released in Japan, so it might be considered as a normal Lakitu in Japan). Should it be merged? I think it should. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:40, 4 January 2019 (EST)
:Even then, there is instances where enemies with unique names get called the same thing as another enemy,  such as how [[Toady|Toadies]] often get mistakenly called Magikoopas. While in this case a Lakitu in a Pipe is well, literally a Lakitu in a Pipe and Toadies are entirely different from regular Magikoopas, you could also consider merging [[Fishin' Lakitu]] with regular Lakitus if we were to merge variants of species that are only different from their parent species by being named and doing an activity, such as fishing. While the SME does consider them the same, we cannot cite the english SME due to it plagiarizing from this and other wikis, so unless we have proof that Lakitus in a Pipe are considered the same as Lakitus in the Japanese SME, I personally think that they should still be split, at least for now. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 08:42, 4 January 2019 (EST)
::Unlike Fishin' Lakitu, this enemy's name is built on rather shaky foundations. What's ''Mario Mania'' again? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 13:29, 4 January 2019 (EST)
:::~1994 guidebook, therefore in the same boat as ''[[Perfect Edition of the Great Mario Character Encyclopedia]]''. It's also where we get every "Boo Buddy" variant, which in Japan, were all treated as the same enemy as well (other than the block ones), with the circling ones getting a unique name later. So if this is merged, the other Boo Buddies get merged too. That's [[Boo Buddy Snake]], [[Boo Buddy Swarm]], and [[Disappearing Boo Buddy]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:51, 4 January 2019 (EST)
:@Doomhiker, unlike the Fishing Lakitu, the Lakitu in a Pipe was never treated separately from the normal Lakitu in Japan. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:50, 5 January 2019 (EST)
::@FanOfYoshi, that is true, ''Mario Mania'' gave a lot of enemies that were the same as their parent species unique names, and as ''Mario Mania'' is a ''Nintendo Power''-published book, it is hard to say it is a 100% reliable book, considering how Nintendo Power often made unique enemies in Japan generic, such as the with the ''Yoshi's Story'' frogs, and vice versa with enemies that where considered the same as other enemies in Japan. Perhaps instead of making a discussion or a proposal for every enemy that was the same as their parent species in Japan with ''Mario Mania'' making them unique, we could make a general proposal of which enemies that where only given uniqueness in Mario Mania should be split and which should be merged with their parent species. As for now, I now do agree the Lakitu in a Pipe should be merged with regular Lakitus, if the Boo Buddies with unique name in ''Mario Mania'' also are merged. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 09:52, 5 January 2019 (EST)
:Big Boo getting 2 entries (Big Blue Boo was thought to be conjectural until checking. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:59, 5 January 2019 (EST)
::I would honestly prefer that they all keep their own pages, as they have vastly different behaviors, are from the same game, and aren't just recolors. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:31, 5 January 2019 (EST)
:::Same for me. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:43, 5 January 2019 (EST)
::::If i see no objection on it, we can safely merge it to Lakitu. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:18, 10 February 2019 (EST)
:::::I can assure everyone that such a merge won't take place under the wiki's current general consunsus. See [[Talk:Spark#Split Magnet Sparky from Spark|this proposal]] for details, as it's a similar case. {{unsigned|Toadette the Achiever}}
::::::It should be mentioned that we do not have separate articles for "Goomba in a Bubble" (50), "Fish in Bubbles" and "Bubble Bob-omb" (51), nor would there appear to be any interest in them. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:33, April 2, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::It would make as much sense as the "Goomba (Balloon)" article, so I'd support it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:17, April 2, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::Unlike with the bubble enemies, which are simply the exact specified enemy in a bubble, the Lakitu in a Pipe acts differently than a normal Lakitu. My vote is it stays. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:19, April 2, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::I would support keeping the article separate as well, due to them behaving differently. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 18:21, April 2, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::They are different enemies gameplay-wise and officially, so I changed my opinion to match keeping these pages separate. Per Alex95 the bubble enemies are just enemies in bubbles gameplay wise unlike with Lakitus in Pipes, so their unique names can be turned into redirects for the time being. {{User:Doomhiker/sig}} 18:24, April 2, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::::Lakitu in a Pipe is likely analogous to ''Super Mario World'''s "Piranha in a Pipe" (Piranha Plant), but the three bubble enemies have a similar function to Para-bomb and Para-Goomba. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 07:40, April 3, 2019 (EDT)
Update: [https://archive.ph/yutSZ Mario Portal] (if you don't see this in archive try the [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/archives/world/ original site]) pictures "Lakitu in a Pipe" as the second type of "Lakitu". [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:41, August 24, 2022 (EDT)

== Merge with Lakitu: Le proposal ==

{{TPP}}
Per the above discussion. If this succeeds, we'll also have to examine how we'll handle Balloon Goomba, as well as Boo Buddy Snake (although the former is more likely, i'd compare it to the blue Dragoneel, even though my personal preference is to merge both to their respective article.). And even if this proposal fails, we'd still at least have to do something with Balloon Goomba, since it's called Goomba in both English and Japanese.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}

'''Deadline:''' December 1st, 2023, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I do think there is a small chance this might just be prototypical Aqua Lakitu, but per Mario Portal and the fact that we don't have Mania's other "[Enemy] in [X]" as articles.

===Oppose===
===Comments===
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==(First topic)==
 Where does the name "'''Pipe Lakitu'''" come from? - [[User:Zakor1138|Zakor1138]] 19:52, 7 June 2012 (EDT)
@@ Line 31: / Line 30: @@
 == Merge with Lakitu: Le proposal ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|green|merge 9-0}}
+{{TPP}}
 Per the above discussion. If this succeeds, we'll also have to examine how we'll handle Balloon Goomba, as well as Boo Buddy Snake (although the former is more likely, i'd compare it to the blue Dragoneel, even though my personal preference is to merge both to their respective article.). And even if this proposal fails, we'd still at least have to do something with Balloon Goomba, since it's called Goomba in both English and Japanese.
@@ Line 42: / Line 41: @@
 #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal.
 #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} I do think there is a small chance this might just be prototypical Aqua Lakitu, but per Mario Portal and the fact that we don't have Mania's other "[Enemy] in [X]" as articles.
-#{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
-#{{User|Hewer}} Per all.
-#{{User|Biggestman}} While Lakitu in a Pipe is really funny, it is literally just a Lakitu. Per all.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per Biggestman, because this ''is'' pretty funny. We nominate this article for being preserved in the BJAODN, because this is kind of silly--this really ought to have been merged awhile ago! ;P
-#{{User|Mario}} "Lakitu in a Pipe" is probably not even the proper name for this enemy.
-#{{User|Pseudo}} Per all — while it is a mechanically different enemy, it's still basically just a Lakitu.
-#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per all.
 ===Oppose===
 ===Comments===
-@Link: I know this should be a story for another day (or maybe should i start proposal for them right away, given how Doc made one for Gobblegut while his Dino Piranha proposal is still in activity as of the time i'm writing this), but how do you feel about Boo Buddy Snake and Balloon Goomba, now that Mario Portal is a thing? {{Unsigned|FanOfYoshi}}
-:I don't feel one way or the other with balloon Goomba at the moment, but ''Encyclopedia'' groups it with Goomba. Portal just doesn't include its picture for some reason. The Boo variants might be a little complicated since Boo Crew became its own thing later. One thing at a time, I think. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:33, November 17, 2023 (EST)
-I would vote for an Aqua Lakitu merge. If nothing else, it's clearly a reference to the SMW Lakitus appearing in pipes, considering the only level they appear in is in turn a whole reference to Piranha Plants appearing in pipes. They even behave similarly. But I guess being a reference might be the extent of it... [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 10:36, November 17, 2023 (EST)
-What do Japanese sources call this Lakitu? And yes, I know about the website but I'm wondering if game guides even tried to give this Lakitu a different name. To be honest, I feel the different behavior of this Lakitu being a pipe does significantly change the enemy to some degree. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 16:47, November 17, 2023 (EST)
-I would be down with merging Lakitu in a Pipe with Aqua Lakitu instead, since both are the same concept of a Lakitu hiding inside a pipe, but the fact that Lakitu in a Pipe is considered the same enemy as a regular Lakitu [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/character/mario/history/world/index.html on the Mario Portal] (and isn't even listed [https://archive.org/details/raw-scans/page/n1/mode/2up in this Japanese guide]), whereas Aqua Lakitu gets a different name in Japan (which essentially translates to Pipe Lakitu) makes me iffy about it. {{User:Arend/sig}} 10:20, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-:Since the Aqua Lakitu isn't pipe-based in behavior, it probably had more to do with being found in a sewer stage. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:02, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-::Okay, a few things:
-::*The sewer stage in question, Naval Piranha's Castle, is called Naval Piranha's Pipes in Japanese, and is clearly a reference to how Piranha Plants often appear in pipes. Aqua Lakitus only appear in this stage, and Lakitus are the only other enemy at the time (as far as I know) to appear in pipes. So if nothing else, their appearance there is clearly a reference to the pipe-dwelling Lakitus in World.
-::*Mario Portal seems to work on a per-game basis. Take Mikey Mine and Space Mine for instance. In the Galaxy 2 section, Space Mine is given the same treatment as the pipe-dwelling Lakitu in World, despite being listed separately in the Galaxy section.
-::*Sometimes, named variants of enemies start out being treated as minor variations of the same enemy. Bouncing Bullet Bill, etc. Just because the pipe-dwelling Lakitu wasn't originally a different enemy doesn't mean it couldn't go on to become one.
-::[[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 15:36, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-:::Note that it wasn't until recently that fellow SMW-debut [[Jumping Fire Piranha Plant]] was treated as a distinct thing, but the piped Lakitu still isn't by the same sources. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:17, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-:::: Isn't this basically Missile Bill though? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 19:11, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-:::::Main difference is beyond a vague connection to pipes and being Lakitus at all, there's not much else in common. The SMW2 enemy wears a snorkel and a bathing suit and is capable of moving around, which is completely different than the SMW enemy (which is just an immobile Lakitu with a different palette). Missile Bill was always distinquished by being chasey. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 19:28, November 22, 2023 (EST)
-:::::I've thought about this some more, and a more accurate comparison would be [[Jumping Piranha Plant]] (P-Packun) and [[Propeller Piranha]] (Propeller Packun). Both are very similar and the latter is definitely based on the former albeit not coming from separate pipes and having behavior adjusted to differing gameplay, but as the SBBU list shows, they are considered different things. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:10, November 23, 2023 (EST)
-::::::Alright, that makes sense. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:19, November 23, 2023 (EST)