Editing Talk:Lab (Luigi's Mansion 3)

== Bunker and Lab ==
Turns out the Lab in LM3 has the same Japanese name of "Base Lab" as the Bunker from LM2. Considering how very similar they look, this seems to be intended as a recurring location of sorts, even if they're probably not literally the same physical object. Now, I won't be proposing a merge or anything, with the LM2 remake on the way, I just ask that it joins Boolossus (and possibly the pest enemies) in the "we shall see" pile. (By the way, just in case this comes up, it appears both games' scripts were written in Japanese first and then translated into English, despite the games being developed by NLG) [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:01, October 25, 2023 (EDT)
: Keep it in the "We shall see" pile for now. Japan may have just come up with it for convenience purposes. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 11:20, November 2, 2023 (EDT)
:: Well, LM2 has been renamed, but the remake uses pretty much the same script as the original, so nothing new there. I don't think there's anything more for "we" to "shall see", I doubt this is every going to get revisited, so... might as well pick this up now, hm? By the way, regarding my assertion above that "it appears both games' scripts were written in Japanese first and then translated into English", while that's the case for LM3, it's really not clear how LM2 was written. The English and Japanese scripts are so different that it feels like they were written simultaneously. But that doesn't actually matter, because LM3 was the game to bring back the bunker/lab. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:23, July 1, 2024 (EDT)

==Merge [[Bunker]] here==
{{TPP}}
Luigi's Mansion 2 HD released and the game's script is largely the same, so nothing has changed. I decided to go ahead and make a proposal for this anyway. Here's the situation:
* In Luigi's Mansion 2, a small building appears known as "Bunker" in English and "Base Lab" in Japanese (the two scripts appear to have been written in parallel, or something along those lines, leading to differences like this, but the Bunker is a new element in the series, so the different names are okay). It is a small dome-shaped building designed after E. Gadd's head.
* In Luigi's Mansion 3, the "Lab" has a very similar-looking interior and exterior to the previous game's "Bunker". It also serves a very similar role, of course. Additionally, the Lab's Japanese name is also "Base Lab". Now, the game's writing is credited to "Ryunosuke Suzuki", which, alongside the much closer scripts, seems to mean that, unlike the previous game, LM3 was written in Japanese first and then translated to English. This seems to explain why the "Bunker" name was not reused.
* Now, despite the similarities between the two, they're still clearly different physical structures. However, considering the comprehensiveness of pages like [[Bowser's Castle]], I don't think that is an issue. It is still a recurring element in the series.
Given all this, I would like to merge the two pages (although to be honest I have no idea what a suitable identifier would be...). Anyways, please let me know if I've missed something, but I think that's it.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Blinker}}<br>
'''Deadline''': October 19, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===

===Comments===
Yeah, what identifier to use is quite the predicament. One could say to move it to {{fake link|Lab (''Luigi's Mansion'' series)}}... except that [[Lab|''all uses of Lab'' are Luigi's Mansion-related!]] Outside of this Lab and the Bunker, there's also [[Professor E. Gadd's Lab]], though this is a conjectural name, so you ''could'' merge it with this Lab and the Bunker too.. but then there's also [[The Lab|''The'' Lab]], which is actually a lab ''within'' the aforementioned lab, and might be better to merge with the Bunker and this Lab instead... ''maybe''. And then there's [[Lab (Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon)]], which is ''not'' related to E. Gadd, and is instead a room within the [[Gloomy Manor]]... but that makes it at least easier to move to, well, {{fake link|Lab (Gloomy Manor)}}. Maybe the other way around, merging this article with Bunker, would be a good solution, though it may not be the latest... unless ''[[Luigi's Mansion 2 HD]]'' counts somehow? {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:13, October 5, 2024 (EDT)
:It would make some sense for Luigi's Mansion 2 HD to count for the most recent name given proposals such as [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Prioritize Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) names for all recurring Paper Mario items that appear in that game|this one]]. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:08, October 5, 2024 (EDT)
::I guess that would solve it, yeah. The only issue I can see is that TTYD's remake did have a fair bit of changes to the script that LM2 HD didn't really (aside from Boothoven). So I'm not sure how comparable the two are. Should I edit the proposal to be merging this to Bunker then? I'm not sure. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:44, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ==Merge [[Bunker]] here==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|Merge Bunker and Professor E. Gadd's Lab / The Lab|1-4-0}}
 Luigi's Mansion 2 HD released and the game's script is largely the same, so nothing has changed. I decided to go ahead and make a proposal for this anyway. Here's the situation:
 * In Luigi's Mansion 2, a small building appears known as "Bunker" in English and "Base Lab" in Japanese (the two scripts appear to have been written in parallel, or something along those lines, leading to differences like this, but the Bunker is a new element in the series, so the different names are okay). It is a small dome-shaped building designed after E. Gadd's head.
@@ Line 12: / Line 11: @@
 * Now, despite the similarities between the two, they're still clearly different physical structures. However, considering the comprehensiveness of pages like [[Bowser's Castle]], I don't think that is an issue. It is still a recurring element in the series.
 Given all this, I would like to merge the two pages (although to be honest I have no idea what a suitable identifier would be...). Anyways, please let me know if I've missed something, but I think that's it.
-EDIT: I have added another option to additionally merge [[Professor E. Gadd's Lab]] and [[The Lab]], per the comments. Both of these cover pretty much the same subject, E. Gadd's lab in the first Luigi's Mansion, which, despite having a different design and somewhat different name, still serves the same role as in later games (E. Gadd's laboratory and base of operations, where it is possible to talk to E. Gadd and check a ghost gallery).
 '''Proposer''': {{User|Blinker}}<br>
 '''Deadline''': October 19, 2024, 23:59 GMT
-===Merge Bunker only===
+===Support===
 #{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal.
-===Merge Bunker and Professor E. Gadd's Lab / The Lab ===
-#{{User|Blinker}} Per proposal, sonny.
-#{{User|Arend}} While I'm a bit hesitant to merge ''The'' Lab AND Professor E. Gadd's Lab since the former is a room in the latter much like the [[Portrificationizer Chamber]], the [[Gallery (Luigi's Mansion)|Gallery]], and the [[Training Room (Luigi's Mansion)|Training Room]], this option makes more sense than having these four Lab articles split apart. After all, we have several incarnations of [[Yoshi's House]] and [[Bowser's Castle]] merged the same way.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Hardly worth four articles. If something comes up later, we can always reassess.
-#{{User|Ahemtoday}} I think a more comprehensive article is the best move here given half these articles seem a bit shrimpy. The articles also give me the impression Partners in Time's lab might be good to merge as well, but I'm not familiar with that game.
 ===Oppose===
@@ Line 33: / Line 24: @@
 :It would make some sense for Luigi's Mansion 2 HD to count for the most recent name given proposals such as [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/69#Prioritize Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door (Nintendo Switch) names for all recurring Paper Mario items that appear in that game|this one]]. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:08, October 5, 2024 (EDT)
 ::I guess that would solve it, yeah. The only issue I can see is that TTYD's remake did have a fair bit of changes to the script that LM2 HD didn't really (aside from Boothoven). So I'm not sure how comparable the two are. Should I edit the proposal to be merging this to Bunker then? I'm not sure. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:44, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
-It occurs to me, is his base of operations from the first game covered ''anywhere''? EDIT: Oh, I found it, [[The Lab]]. Strange it's not linked on either page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:49, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
-:...Why's [[Professor E. Gadd's Lab]] yet another article on the same subject...? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:00, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
-::Well, at least that one has a very different design and whatnot... I can add it as another option. Throw in the lab from Partners in Time as well, for good measure. A bit like the early, inconsistent versions of Peach's Castle. I'll do that. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:10, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
-::Edit: Oh, I seem to have misunderstood! That's very strange, now that you point it out! [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 18:06, October 6, 2024 (EDT)
-::Well, as I said earlier, [[The Lab|''The'' Lab]] is a lab within [[Professor E. Gadd's Lab]]; seems like they're treating that as a separate room much like the [[Portrificationizer Chamber]], the [[Training Room (Luigi's Mansion)|Training Room]], and the [[Gallery (Luigi's Mansion)|Gallery]]... so I'm a bit hesitant in including ''both'' Professor E. Gadd's Lab AND ''The'' Lab into the merge (especially since ''The'' Lab is called ''just'' "Lab" in Japanese when the LM3 lab and the LM2 bunker are called "Base Lab" there (and "Professor E. Gadd's Lab" is a mere conjectural name without a Japanese name to boot)). {{User:Arend/sig}} 01:10, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Seems like the first-game lab's "Base" area was supposed to be the "[[List of Luigi's Mansion pre-release and unused content#Text strings|Underground lab]]", which isn't that far off from the later Bunker-style versions. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 05:43, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Well, that's the English version of the unused image. The Japanese one (it's on TCRF) simply says 「{{ruby|研究所|けんきゅうじょ}}（ラボ）」 (By the way, 「ラボ」 is what E. Gadd calls it in his dialogue in LM1, while 「研究所」 is what he uses in Partners in Time). [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:40, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Maybe there can be a third option that results in two articles? One for the aboveground lab, and the other for the underground lab? EDITS: That'd leave the ''Partners in Time'' version separate, though there could be a case for it since it's expressly a separate location for separate research. As he says: "[...]''it looks like this lab's done for''[''.''..]''I hear there's an affordable lab at the edge of the Boo Woods. I think I'll relocate there for a time. I have a hankering to do some paranormal research.''" In other words, "The Lab" already existed and was up for sale. It having two articles to itself still seems superfluous. "Professor E. Gadd's Lab" can easily move excess details to "The Lab" so it can focus on the ''Partners in Time'' version. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:21, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::::::Sorry, I'm a bit confused, what are you proposing be done, then? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:07, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::::Well, the labs are physically different places.
-#Lab (''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'') - As explained, this is a separate facility altogether.
-#The Lab - An underground lab that has a tiny aboveground portion that has the appearance of an unassuming wooden shack, and has doors leading to a training area, gallery, and Portrificationizer. This and the above somehow got welded into the "Professor E. Gadd's Lab" article.
-#Bunker - a replacement of the above modeled after Gadd, situated in Evershade Valley instead of the Boo Woods, serving as his backup after the actual lab in the Gloomy Manor became unusable.
-#Lab (''Luigi's Mansion 3'') - a portable invention based on the above.
-Basically, "Professor E. Gadd's Lab" is the extraneous one and should be completely rewritten. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:41, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:I mean, yes, they're physically different places, but they're still iterations of the same concept. Just look at [[Bowser's Castle]]. Yes, I know, there are various pages for the different levels, but they're still all covered on the [[Bowser's Castle]] page. I don't see why the same can't apply here. And besides, if another portable lab appears in the next Luigi's Mansion game or whatever, would it also have its own page? The LM3 one did get destroyed, after all. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:01, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::I'd rather cross that bridge if we get there, but "Professor E. Gadd's Ghost research laboratory" is one concept, and "{{conjectural|Professor E. Gadd's Thwomp research laboratory}}" is another. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:41, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Okay, so, don't throw in the one from Partners in Time then? I guess I'm neutral on that one, since it serves a different role. I'm curious though, how do you feel about the Bunker + LM3 Lab merge? Because that's the main attraction here, so to speak. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 14:37, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::::I'd personally like to see how another appearance codifies it since I seem to have misremembered an independent aboveground lab, though I guess I'll support if the ''Partners in Time'' lab is considered outside the coverage of Professor E. Gadd's Lab as Arend says. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 15:11, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::Sure, that sounds good to me. It's barely covered as it is, so it's not like that changes much. Maybe a PiT section to mention how the Boo Woods lab is mentioned in that game, but other than that... I won't be making an article for the Thwomp lab though, since that would need to be written pretty much from scratch. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 15:31, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:Saying this for a third time already, but our article on [[The Lab]] appears to be treated as ''a room inside of [[Professor E. Gadd's Lab]]'', from my understanding at least. That's being attested to by the fact how both are listed on the {{tem|LM}} nav template. Also, our article on E. Gadd's Lab ''barely'' covers the research facility in ''Partners in Time'', ''if at all''; it only talks about it in a single sentence and has no PiT-related categories (which would certainly be bizarre if it did cover the facility as you say it does, since it's an explorable area and all). {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:07, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::Yes, I read that, and it's nonsensical. "''The Lab is a room inside his Lab.''" Doesn't exactly seem split-worthy. Also: infobox. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:14, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-:::Yeah, it is nonsensical (perhaps BJAODN-worthy) in retrospect; I just supposed the wiki treated the Lab having different rooms the same way as [[Luigi's Mansion (location)|the main mansion]] having different rooms (e.g. likening ''The'' Lab as an equivalent to the [[Foyer (Luigi's Mansion)|Foyer]]). Also, infobox mentioning that the Thwomp Volcano was the first lab's location appears more as a footnote than anything. As fas as I'm concerned, the PiT research facility ''doesn't have an article'', which is also weird. {{User:Arend/sig}} 14:27, October 7, 2024 (EDT)
-::::Adding to this, "Where am I?" is one of the things you can ask E. Gadd in the complex in the first game (specifically the gallery if I remember right), so it doesn't really make much sense to split it anyway. The whole thing is his lab. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:29, October 7, 2024 (EDT)