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| ==Rename to Big Goombrat== | | ==Rename to Big Goombrat== |
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| I thought Policy allows for this name now, how come it was changed back? --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 22:17, February 9, 2024 (EST) | | I thought Policy allows for this name now, how come it was changed back? --[[User:Sgt. Sarge|Sgt. Sarge]] ([[User talk:Sgt. Sarge|talk]]) 22:17, February 9, 2024 (EST) |
| :Consider: Kodeka Kuribo isn't Big Goomba, it is ''Hefty'' Goomba. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:12, February 9, 2024 (EST) | | :Consider: Kodeka Kuribo isn't Big Goomba, it is ''Hefty'' Goomba. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:12, February 9, 2024 (EST) |
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| ::::::::It was moved because "Kodeka Kakibō" is official while "Big Goombrat" is not, and I wasn't aware of that policy when I performed the move. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:02, February 10, 2024 (EST) | | ::::::::It was moved because "Kodeka Kakibō" is official while "Big Goombrat" is not, and I wasn't aware of that policy when I performed the move. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:02, February 10, 2024 (EST) |
| :::::::::Waluigi Time: Hefty Goomba's internal name is also "Big Goomba". {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:55, February 10, 2024 (EST) | | :::::::::Waluigi Time: Hefty Goomba's internal name is also "Big Goomba". {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:55, February 10, 2024 (EST) |
| ::::::::::I'll repeat what I've said [[Talk:Mame-san#Name source|here]]: this is analogous to Big Goomba in ''Super Mario Maker 2'' (and almost certainly ''Super Mario Run'') and as such there is no obvious name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:51, February 11, 2024 (EST) | | ::::::::::I'll repeat what I've said [[Talk:Mame-san#Names source|here]]: this is analogous to Big Goomba in ''Super Mario Maker 2'' (and almost certainly ''Super Mario Run'') and as such there is no obvious name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:51, February 11, 2024 (EST) |
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| From what I understand, the newer policy's ''intent'' is to make judgement calls in cases where the only valid sources are incomplete file names or vague descriptions (like the infamous "vehicle with surfboard" being too clunky for an article name), meaning this is an abuse of it (and regardless of whether this ''does'' follow the intent or not, it's a good illustration of how bad an idea it is). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:12, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| : Well then, let's switch it back to the Japanese name instead of making up an English name. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:12, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::I'm also going to add, for the record, that I don't think "[[Special:Diff/4155052|Wonder Hoppycat]]" was a good move either, based on conclusions so far raised [[User talk:Jdtendo#Re:Hoppin≠Hoppycat|here]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:56, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| Pardon me for cutting in, but I wonder why the enemy is named "Hefty Goombrat" instead of "Big Goombrat"? It's just a bigger version of a Goombrat. Maybe there's a reason why it's named that that I'm unaware of? {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:02, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I think it was because a Japanese ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder'' source uses the same term for these enemies used for Hefty Goomba. Why this and not the giant Swirlypod, I don't follow. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:07, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::Oh. It seems inconsistent, but if that's what the source says, then I understand now. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 11:09, March 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| == Rename to it's English name ==
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| Not to sound racist or anything but English names suit most characters better. So we should keep it as big goombrat. [[Special:Contributions/109.150.62.3|109.150.62.3]] 11:59, December 15, 2024 (EST)
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| == Kodeka Conversation ==
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| {{talk}}
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| As per the [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/71#A reconsidering of "derived names"|recently passed proposal]], articles can use derived names when their components are easy to infer from official localizations. This subject fits the criteria, but is clearly controversial during and even before the proposal. So, discussion! I've noticed some significant positions to be taken, and prepared some arguments for each. Note that this is '''NOT''' a formal proposal (yet), but a casual talk page discussion. I want all possible perspectives on the issue without the urgency of a timer or the need to vote from a given list of options.
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| '''Arguments for "Big Goombrat"'''
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| * There is no larger Goombrat variant, so the specificity of "Hefty" is unnecessary.
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| * Its filename is <code>EnemyBigKakibo</code>.
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| '''Arguments for "Hefty Goombrat"'''
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| * It uses the specific word ''kodeka'', just like the Kokeka Kuribō, aka Hefty Goomba. The decision to do this despite the lack of a larger variety may suggest intentional relation.
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| * Its behavior matches with the Hefty Goomba very closely, as it is 2 tiles tall and splits into regular Goombrats.
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| '''Arguments for "Kodeka Kakibō"'''
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| * A translation for ''kodeka'' is only provided by the [[Hefty Goomba]], which is not an overwhelming amount of support.
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| Important note, all of these points are also relevant to [[Kodeka Maimai]]. Discussion is simply here instead because of the Goombrat's apparent infamy.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 19:53, December 19, 2024 (EST)
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| :Based on the physiological and behavioral similarities between Goombas and Goombrats, the notably high quality of the ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' Prima guidebook (where "Hefty Goomba" was first introduced), the retention of "Hefty Goomba" on Mario Portal, and the specifically shared behaviors between Hefty Goomba and Kodeka Kakibo, I think "Hefty Goombrat" is a perfectly reasonable extrapolation. I do not know if I can say that for the other Kodeka enemies since they have little similarities for us to compare with Goombas or Goombrats. But "Hefty Goombrat" itself is fine. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 22:53, December 19, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Considering Hefty Goomba is already an official name, and a current [[Hefty Goomba|page name]] too, I would support Hefty Goombrat. I think we should keep the naming as close to other officially name enemies for ease of finding and access, which would be why I'm throwing my support behind Hefty Goombrat.--{{User:Ninja Squid/sig}} 00:04, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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| Let's just wait for the localizers to lend a definitive English name for the enemy and avoid counterproductive speculation and dot-connecting. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 23:33, December 19, 2024 (EST)
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| :Derived names were agreed to be acceptable by proposal, so we will discuss derived names. Please don't clog these discussions with snark about the concept itself irrelevant to the topic, that being how best to deal with each individual subject under the wiki's guidelines.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 23:48, December 19, 2024 (EST)
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| ::You'd have a point if I waved the same comment across all talk pages where you raised similar issues, but here, I was directly addressing Kodeka Kakibo. Your accusation that I'm "clogging" the discussion with a point of view that you deem "irrelevant" is risible.<br>The proposal conditioned that names would only be derived if the original names are straightforward enough to lend one obvious English adaptation according to pre-existent naming criteria. "Kodeka Kakibo" can veer in more than one way, based on some loose parallels that you even signalled above ("A translation for kodeka is only provided by the Hefty Goomba, which is not an overwhelming amount of support"). Neither of these speculative naming choices are particularly optimal over the other and may boil down to taste. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 01:30, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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| :::I'm sorry for making a snap judgment about your intent. I was worrying a lot that discussion of these names would be overrun with concept-disapproving replies that don't help anyone, and your comment was upsetting to see mere hours after the proposal's passing. The elaboration you give in your reply is very reasonable.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 10:25, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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| I would like to remind folks to assume good faith. Part of the derived names proposal was to have these types of discussions for edge cases, which the Kodeka Goombrat certainly qualifies for. I don't think anyone here has said or done anything uncouth in voicing their perspective. We all want the wiki to succeed and to make the best decisions we can with the material we've been dealt. — [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 04:22, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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| :I say we move. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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| :I think moving this and other "Kodeka" enemies using the term "Hefty" isn't too much of a stretch. Lately, the translations for resized enemies and the like have been fairly consistent (with exceptions like "Sledge Bro" predating the standardization of these names). "Deka" is translated as "Big", "Kyodai" as "Mega", "Chibi" as "Small", "Mame" as "Mini", "Mega" as "Heavy"... I'd say it's safe to assume the use of "Hefty" for "Kodeka" will be similarly consistent. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:01, December 20, 2024 (EST)
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