Editing Talk:King Kaliente

What the...? King Magma Blooper--[[User:Caith Sith|Caith Sith]] 15:25, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
<blockquote>His name was gotton from the official Prima strategy guide.</blockquote>
Since when is Prima official? - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 15:27, 31 October 2007 (EDT)
:Sory, but Prima usually makes up their own names. This is not official. {{User:3dejong/sig|do you have the guide?}}

But this article is a copy&paste of King Magma Blooper... "King Kaliente" can be a redirect, no the same article with another name...--[[User:Caith Sith|Caith Sith]] 17:41, 31 October 2007 (EDT)

The Mission Name Was  King Kaliente's Battle Fleet So His Name Is King Kaliente. Case Closed. P.S. You Also won the award for "Most Blind To The Obvious." - [[User: Thirsty for Power]]

Please be polite. This conversation happened before the game was released. {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig|}} 20:33, 18 March 2009 (EDT)
== Black King Kaliente ==

In [[Bowser Jr.'s Lava Reactor]] King Kaliente is black instead of orange: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILGgZoElzec]
{{User:Freekhenstra/sig}}

Your point...? [[User:GreenBoo|GreenBoo]] 02:16, 20 September 2008 (EDT)

==Why?==
Why isn't King Kaliente considered a Goomba if he's an Octogoomba? - [[User:Billtn|Bill-tendo]] 23:48, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:Where are they called Octogoomba's {{User|Raven Effect}}
::Octo-''goomba'', I guess? Or was it Oct''oombas''? {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 23:53, 13 March 2012 (EDT)
:::I think it's Octoombas but I was asking whats the source that calls them Octoombas cause if they are octoombas than yes they should be put in the Goomba category as well {{User|Raven Effect}}
Kaliente's head resembles an Octoomba, but I don't know if that's enough to merit him as an Octoomba. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:02, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
:If it than he's one weird space Goomba...perhaps we should ask someone with the Prima guide {{User|Raven Effect}}
::The Prima guide isn't exactly a reliable source. :P {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:18, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
:::I understand that but it's kind of the only official source unless there's a trading card for this guy...also you can't get it wrong when all the info is new {{User|Raven Effect}}
::::It's likely that he has a trading card, since he's one of the important bosses. Also, the category of Super Mario Galaxy trading cards includes him for some reason. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:25, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
::::::Well than we should ask someone with the trading cards if he's an octoomba (also fun fact the trading cards are what confirmed octoombas as goombas) {{User|Raven Effect}}
Just to confirm he has a trading card, here's the [http://www.mariowiki.com/images/4/4e/KalienteTradingCard.PNG link] to the picture. It's just a picture, though. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:28, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
:So we need to either get his trading card or the Prima guide {{User|Raven Effect}}
:Okay, then. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 00:30, 14 March 2012 (EDT)
::prima calls it an octopus --ptr
:Technically, Octoomba and Octogoomba are the same thing, and mostly, I call them Octogoombas. - [[User:Billtn|Bill-tendo]] 20:37, 17 March 2012 (EDT)

== Splitting the Kalientes? ==
I'm not quite sure what the point is. They're both named the same character, and it's heavily suggested that they are the same character just making a return. The black version doesn't exhibit any particularly new strategies or abilities in the boss fight. And, if this were to pass, what of other recurring boss characters, like [[Knot-Wing the Koopa]] and the other ''Woolly World'' bosses, or even mid-bosses like [[Jr. Troopa]] and all? [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 22:24, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
:Look [[Mariowiki:Proposals|here]] for the arguments regarding it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:29, March 21, 2019 (EDT)
::I think another proposal should be made. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:36, April 7, 2019 (EDT)
:::And i supported the split. (And i agree that it made an inconsistency, now that it failed to get split). --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:35, May 10, 2019 (EDT)
::::I asked to Toadette the Achiever what to do with it now that the inconsistency has been caused, but did not get a response yet. I'm patient though. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:31, June 12, 2019 (EDT)
::::Personally, I do not support the split. [[User:Obsessive Mario Fan|Obsessive Mario Fan]] ([[User talk:Obsessive Mario Fan|talk]]) 11:45, June 12, 2019 (EDT)
:::::They're the exact same character, so no. Just because they appear again with a different tactic doesn't mean they get split. Otherwise, we'd have two [[Petey Piranha]] articles. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:49, June 12, 2019 (EDT)
::::::Also, out of curiosity, do they, and Gobblegut have separate models? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:31, June 13, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Almost positive it's the same model with different textures. Granted, the Piranhas ''might'' do the same thing, as the petals are potentially just a texture themselves. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:39, June 13, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::I don't know about the game, but I looked on the noclip website and the King Kalientes are the same model (with same color) and the Dino Piranhas are the same thing in both games. However, this is not true for the two Gobbleguts. I use noclip since I am not the actual games since, even though I have them, I know nothing about looking into them. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 21:00, June 13, 2019 (EDT)

Well since the second time is titled "King Kaliente's Spicy RETURN", it seems very likely that it is the same character [[User:Mario Sakuraba|Mario Sakuraba]] ([[User talk:Mario Sakuraba|talk]]) 20:08, June 13, 2019 (EDT)
:Exactly. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 20:36, June 13, 2019 (EDT)
::What are the name of the models? Also, the scorched one has a separate entry in the encyclopedia. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:33, June 14, 2019 (EDT)
:::In Hisstocrat Returns, there is a different Hisstocrat. Despite the name, it is a separate entity, and it is confirmed on [[Boss Blitz]] that Hisstocrat and the queen Hisstocrat are different. What about Shadow Mario being split from Bowser Jr.? Same scenario, no? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:42, June 15, 2019 (EDT)
::::I'd ask to LinkTheLefty later about the internal filename. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 14:51, June 15, 2019 (EDT)

All right, I think I finally know enough to weigh in on this discussion: I'd say both Kalientes are one and the same. The color differences appear to be aesthetic, and it's really the '''battlefield''' that changes. On the other hand, since the Gobbleguts have slightly differing attack patterns and have a nearly identical battlefield, it's hard to say whether they should be separate or not. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 15:21, June 15, 2019 (EDT)
:There's also the matter of the mission name referring to King Kaliente making a 2nd appearance. In response to the "Hisstocrat Returns" situation, well, the Japanese naming makes a distinction (Hisstocrat vs. Hisstocrat (pink)) whereas the Japanese mission names use "Otaking" regardless. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 16:04, June 15, 2019 (EDT)

== Both forms of King Kaliente are the same being. ==

Title is mostly self explanatory, but to be specific, I'm referring to his orange form (first fight) and black form (second fight) in Super Mario Galaxy 1. Here's my reasoning:

- His second mission is titled "King Kaliente's Return". The Return, of course, implies Kaliente is returning.
- Bowser Jr refers to the black variation as "King Kaliente" in the dialogue directly before the fight.

Reasons I have received to why he is separate:
- "Hisstocrat has a similar 'Returns' level name despite being distinct entities." I would like to state that this is a completely different game, so that should be taken into account. With that in mind- While the above is true, despite the name 'Hisstocrat', there is ESPECIALLY typically only one 'King' of something in regards to titles (eg, the likelyhood of there being only one 'King Kaliente'). This actually makes the name 'Hisstocrat' make sense! Both 'Queen Hisstocrat' and 'King Hisstocrat' could be shortened to just 'Hisstocrat', which is likely what the devs of Super Mario 3D World were intending (as in the Hisstocrat family is returning). Even that said, this is a case where the two hisstocrats are most clearly different characters in their visual design in comparison to King Kaliente only getting a palette swap and a slightly varying fight. Even without that being taken into account, I feel the name being shared is a rather abstract case regardless and is something that typically doesn't happen in Mario games, and should be considered a rare example as such.
- "Dino Piranha and Gobblegut exist with the same name as their variants." Firey Dino Piranha we see hatch from a separate egg from Dino Piranha, which confirms the separation (plus the 'second' Dino Piranha is given a separate name through the level name, "Fiery Dino Piranha"). As for Gobblegut and their fiery variant, it is hard to say whether it is the same entity or not (it is listed as the same entity in the level select it should be noted). Regardless, neither of these two are explicitly shown to have the same name with different forms in the same way it is being argued King Kaliente's two forms are separate, so I struggle to see the relation.
- "King Kaliente and his second form have been listed on Japanese Nintendo webpages as separate." Even official game guides and resources have proven inaccurate multiple times, so I would exercise caution in prioritising material from websites (even if official) over in-game material.

I could understand the confusion, absolutely! Though I feel there is far more evidence and dialogue suggesting that the orange and black forms of King Kaliente are the same entity rather than separate. While it is technically a possibility King Kaliente COULD be two different entities, it feels rather improbable and I believe it would be far more sensible to list him as the same entity.
{{unsigned|HatInLime}}

:Remember to sign your username with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki> at the end of your comment on talk pages. Regarding the situation on treating the characters as distinct entities or not, it is because the distinction is made the same way for Dino Piranha, Hisstocrat, Gobblegut, etc. They are named as "Dino Piranha (black)", for example, and as decided by a proposal on I believe Dino Piranha's talk page. But I believe digging into this issue belies a deeper topic, such as the variants of Birdo in ''Mario Kart Tour'' who are named in a way that implies one entity of different colours, which may or may not be applicable here. But I believe that warrants further information and/or analysis before any substantial changes can be made on the Wiki as a whole. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 07:05, January 22, 2025 (EST)
:Also, all of the sources that so much as imply they are the same have been localization-specific. In the original Japanese, no such implication is made; it's just another King Kaliente in the same vein as another Dino Piranha, another Gobblegut, or another Hisstocrat. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:11, January 22, 2025 (EST)

:Actually, in the original Japanese text, Bowser Jr also refers to the second King Kaliente as the same character, and additionally in Japanese the level also uses the term 'Returns'. So both implications are absolutely made in the original text. I do not have the energy to discuss any more so I won't be doing so after this statement, I'm just going to voice my disagreement to separate the character and leave it at that. I apologise if my formatting is incorrect, I'm not used to responding on this Wiki Page. [[User:HatInLime|HatInLime]] ([[User talk:HatInLime|talk]]) 17:20, January 23, 2025 (EST)
::Bowser Jr. did ''not'' say "this is the boss you fought in the Good Egg Galaxy" or any such thing in any language. Just because it is ''a'' King Kaliente does not make it the ''same'' King Kaliente. Especially since "Ota King" is just "a king version of [[Rocto|Ota Rock]]." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:13, January 23, 2025 (EST)