Editing Talk:King Boo (Super Mario Sunshine)
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==Talk Page Proposal: Merge with King Boo== | ==Talk Page Proposal: Merge with King Boo== | ||
{{ | {{SettledTPP}} | ||
{{ | {{ProposalOutcome|red|keep them separated 2-12}} | ||
I actually disagree with this but obviously this TPP needs to happen. While he is referred to as Boss Boo in the Japanese version, he is referred to as King Boo, like [[King Boo]], in America. In addition, despite his different appearance, this is King Boo's second appearance and a beta redesign isn't out of the question. On the other hand, King Boo has always been referred to as "King Boo" in other languages except this guy, besides in Super Mario 64 DS where, in America, he was called Big Boo (but this is easily explained away as a translation error, since he has the same appearance as other King Boo incarnations). Thoughts? | I actually disagree with this but obviously this TPP needs to happen. While he is referred to as Boss Boo in the Japanese version, he is referred to as King Boo, like [[King Boo]], in America. In addition, despite his different appearance, this is King Boo's second appearance and a beta redesign isn't out of the question. On the other hand, King Boo has always been referred to as "King Boo" in other languages except this guy, besides in Super Mario 64 DS where, in America, he was called Big Boo (but this is easily explained away as a translation error, since he has the same appearance as other King Boo incarnations). Thoughts? | ||
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== Big Boss Boo == | == Big Boss Boo == | ||
{{talk}} | |||
So, as we know, this entity shares its Japanese name with one of the ''many'' Japanese names for Big Boo, which itself is clearly the same basic thing in all but possibly ''Dark Moon'' (where it's seemingly Boolossus). Anyways, I feel it's likely a good idea to go ahead and merge this to Big Boo and treat the "King Boo" name as a localization goof brought on by the appearance (on a related note, note how the ''actual'' King Boo was called Big Boo in ''Super Mario 64 DS'', which ''already had Big Boo''). There's also the possibility of splitting those Big Boos here, but that would be ultra messy, because both other iterations ''also'' have an alternate name, and the SM64 one's alternate name is shared with the ''Mario Party 2'' one. As such, I feel merging this to there would be the better idea. Now, to deal with possible counterpoints: | So, as we know, this entity shares its Japanese name with one of the ''many'' Japanese names for Big Boo, which itself is clearly the same basic thing in all but possibly ''Dark Moon'' (where it's seemingly Boolossus). Anyways, I feel it's likely a good idea to go ahead and merge this to Big Boo and treat the "King Boo" name as a localization goof brought on by the appearance (on a related note, note how the ''actual'' King Boo was called Big Boo in ''Super Mario 64 DS'', which ''already had Big Boo''). There's also the possibility of splitting those Big Boos here, but that would be ultra messy, because both other iterations ''also'' have an alternate name, and the SM64 one's alternate name is shared with the ''Mario Party 2'' one. As such, I feel merging this to there would be the better idea. Now, to deal with possible counterpoints: | ||
*"It's design is not just an enlarged Boo, it's distinct." | *"It's design is not just an enlarged Boo, it's distinct." | ||
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::Parabuzzy was also treated as "another one of those infamous merge proposals" just a few short years ago, but then ''Super Mario Maker'' happened and now ''Super Mario Maker 2'' outright calls them Para-Beetles, so localization isn't nearly as constant as you want to make it out to be. That said, why not alternatively move the Boss Telesas from Big Boo to this article? Also, I want to point out that we have a [[Big Boo (boss)|Big Boo boss]] article for ''Super Mario World''. If this merges, so should that. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:28, November 3, 2019 (EST) | ::Parabuzzy was also treated as "another one of those infamous merge proposals" just a few short years ago, but then ''Super Mario Maker'' happened and now ''Super Mario Maker 2'' outright calls them Para-Beetles, so localization isn't nearly as constant as you want to make it out to be. That said, why not alternatively move the Boss Telesas from Big Boo to this article? Also, I want to point out that we have a [[Big Boo (boss)|Big Boo boss]] article for ''Super Mario World''. If this merges, so should that. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:28, November 3, 2019 (EST) | ||
:::Additionally, if a "distinct character" is the only example of a particular subject in a game (especially a single game), then it's that game's interpretation of said subject. Sort of like how there's only one large Chain Chomp/Unagi/Dorrie/Klepto/Manta Ray/Wiggler in SM64, yet they are considered part of their respective species article. Actually, it's exactly like that. Toad, Yoshi, and Kamek at least appear alongside "unnamed generic" members of the species. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:52, November 3, 2019 (EST) | :::Additionally, if a "distinct character" is the only example of a particular subject in a game (especially a single game), then it's that game's interpretation of said subject. Sort of like how there's only one large Chain Chomp/Unagi/Dorrie/Klepto/Manta Ray/Wiggler in SM64, yet they are considered part of their respective species article. Actually, it's exactly like that. Toad, Yoshi, and Kamek at least appear alongside "unnamed generic" members of the species. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:52, November 3, 2019 (EST) | ||
On closer inspection, I think a bit of a mix-up happened here. In the Japanese version of ''Super Mario 64'', the Big Boo is actually referred to as 「おやかたテレサ」 (''Oyakata Teresa'') in the title for Go on a Ghost Hunt, which is the name reused for ''Mario Party 2''; however, in the title for Big Boo's Balcony, it's instead described as 「ボステレサ」 (''Bosu Teresa''), which is more in line with 「ボスどんけつ」 (''Bosu Donketu'', Big Bully). I think it was supposed to be named Oyakata Teresa since that's what it's called in the ''Super Mario 64'' section of ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', even when describing the mission with "Boss Teresa" in the title on page 88. On page 85, its description also called it 「大きなテレサ。」 (''A | On closer inspection, I think a bit of a mix-up happened here. In the Japanese version of ''Super Mario 64'', the Big Boo is actually referred to as 「おやかたテレサ」 (''Oyakata Teresa'') in the title for Go on a Ghost Hunt, which is the name reused for ''Mario Party 2''; however, in the title for Big Boo's Balcony, it's instead described as 「ボステレサ」 (''Bosu Teresa''), which is more in line with 「ボスどんけつ」 (''Bosu Donketu'', Big Bully). I think it was supposed to be named Oyakata Teresa since that's what it's called in the ''Super Mario 64'' section of ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', even when describing the mission with "Boss Teresa" in the title on page 88. On page 85, its description also called it 「大きなテレサ。」 (''A large Boo.'') - the same description as all the other incarnations of Big Boo in the rest of the book, meaning that the ''Sunshine'' Boos are not described as such. Also note that ''oyakata'' can translate to "boss" (or "chief," "master," etc.), which is probably why it's alternatively referred to as the Boss Teresa. Basically, it was ''Super Mario Pia'' that took the name of the latter mission literally and interpreted them as the same entity. A similar thing happened with Big Piranha Plant, in which ''Pia'' listed a SM64 appearance seemingly based on the Japanese title of the Pluck the Piranha Flower mission, despite the fact that it's actually Big Fire Piranha. ''Pia'' has a somewhat spotty track record when it comes to listing appearances, mostly due to not being made fully aware of name changes. Mind, this doesn't explain why the obviously Big Boo of ''Super Mario Ball'' reused the name from ''Super Mario Sunshine'', but it does at least put more doubt in the assessment of ''Pia''. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:21, November 6, 2019 (EST) | ||
:I'd always taken it to be that the "Go on a Ghost Hunt" one was the owner of the house and as such a "special" one, given he gets the narrative introduction in his level after the Boos are defeated and nothing of the sort happens with the other two. Both names are in-game and seem to be "proper" in their writing. And I'm not pushing that the ''Sunshine'' one is individually the same as anything from SM64, I'm saying it's an evolution of the concept like any other previously-shown SMS thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:02, November 6, 2019 (EST) | :I'd always taken it to be that the "Go on a Ghost Hunt" one was the owner of the house and as such a "special" one, given he gets the narrative introduction in his level after the Boos are defeated and nothing of the sort happens with the other two. Both names are in-game and seem to be "proper" in their writing. And I'm not pushing that the ''Sunshine'' one is individually the same as anything from SM64, I'm saying it's an evolution of the concept like any other previously-shown SMS thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:02, November 6, 2019 (EST) | ||
::Could be, but ''Encyclopedia'' attributes all three to Oyakata Teresa and makes no direct mention of Boss Teresa outside of the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' section. Of course, some of the names between the ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario 64 DS'' guides are slightly different, so maybe it's indeed referred to as Boss Teresa in one of them, but my impression is that either it was meant to be taken as a quick descriptor or it might've been a placeholder that was overlooked after finalizing the name elsewhere (with a word that is ostensibly a Japanese equivalent). It would be better to confirm the case with more sources. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:55, November 6, 2019 (EST) | ::Could be, but ''Encyclopedia'' attributes all three to Oyakata Teresa and makes no direct mention of Boss Teresa outside of the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' section. Of course, some of the names between the ''Super Mario 64'' and ''Super Mario 64 DS'' guides are slightly different, so maybe it's indeed referred to as Boss Teresa in one of them, but my impression is that either it was meant to be taken as a quick descriptor or it might've been a placeholder that was overlooked after finalizing the name elsewhere (with a word that is ostensibly a Japanese equivalent). It would be better to confirm the case with more sources. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:55, November 6, 2019 (EST) | ||
:::Do the mission titles lack spaces entirely in-game? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:38, November 6, 2019 (EST) | :::Do the mission titles lack spaces entirely in-game? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:38, November 6, 2019 (EST) | ||
::::A space structure is present and generally used as you'd expect, but some of the emphasis is off; for example, "Can the Eel Come Out to Play?" emphasizes ''Kyodai Utsubo'' instead of just ''Utsubo'', and "Chip Off Whomp's Block" weirdly emphasizes ''King'' instead of ''Battan King'', and as already mentioned, ''Kyodai Packun Flower'' in "Pluck the Piranha Flower" probably wasn't intended to be its actual name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 01:47, November 7, 2019 (EST) | ::::A space structure is present and generally used as you'd expect, but some of the emphasis is off; for example, "Can the Eel Come Out to Play?" emphasizes ''Kyodai Utsubo'' instead of just ''Utsubo'', and "Chip Off Whomp's Block" weirdly emphasizes ''King'' instead of ''Battan King'', and as already mentioned, ''Kyodai Packun Flower'' in "Pluck the Piranha Flower" probably wasn't intended to be its actual name. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 01:47, November 7, 2019 (EST) | ||
