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| In more recent games, he is named King Bob-Omb. Should this be moved? [[User:Supermario12345|Super]][[User talk:Supermario12345|mario]][[Special:Contributions/Supermario12345|12345]] 16:27, July 4, 2021 (EDT) | | In more recent games, he is named King Bob-Omb. Should this be moved? [[User:Supermario12345|Super]][[User talk:Supermario12345|mario]][[Special:Contributions/Supermario12345|12345]] 16:27, July 4, 2021 (EDT) |
| :I believe there are still some games that use the lowercase "o", the latest I'm aware of being the Bowser's Inside Story remake from 2019 (not counting Super Mario 3D All-Stars since text is no different from the original). I think we would have written his name this way throughout the relevant sections if it really was that consistent. Does Mario Golf: Super Rush use the capital "O" as well? {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}} 16:32, July 4, 2021 (EDT)
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| ::It seems like ''Super Rush'' and ''Mario Kart Tour'' both use the name "King Bob-omb", and given they're currently some of the most recent games I think the page should be kept here for now. [[User:BBQ Turtle|BBQ Turtle]] ([[User talk:BBQ Turtle|talk]]) 16:40, July 4, 2021 (EDT)
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| == I screwed up an edit description ==
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| Okay sorry, i was doing a description for my King bob-omb edit but i accidentally clicked Save changes, whoops... But anyways, as i was saying...
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| I think we should stop using Dr. Mario World renders for Infoboxes because they're not in great resolution. I get they're the more recent renders but c'mon, why choose recent but not great resolution renders when there are older but much better resolution renders? EDIT: I also chose the Star Rush render instead of Super Party's because Star Rush's render has a less wild pose which fits an infobox image more. [[User:Shadic 34|Shadic 34]] ([[User talk:Shadic 34|talk]]) 07:27, February 12, 2022 (EST)
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| I don't agree. Sure, they are somewhat worse, but newer models or artwork are usually better. We wouldn't choose an older green Swoop picture just because it looks better. {{User:WildWario/sig}} 07:35, February 12, 2022 (EST)
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| ==Species?==
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| As You're the Bob-Omb has two of the King Bob-Omb character, should this make it a species and not an individual character? Thus, it's also possible that, outside of Super Mario 64 and Super Mario 64 DS, there's no guarantee that it's the same character every time one is seen? [[Special:Contributions/70.88.202.1|70.88.202.1]] 11:23, August 28, 2023 (EDT)
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| :King Bob-omb is always presented as a singular character outside of this, so I don't think so. I believe Petey Piranha and Gooper Blooper are in a similar boat but we still treat them as singular characters. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 13:20, August 28, 2023 (EDT)
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| ::This ultimately amounts to them being singular or plural when it's most convenient for the designers and developers, as has happened to [[Kamek|numerous]] [[Klump|other]] [[Lakitu|entities]] ([[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|including Mario himself!]]) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:26, August 28, 2023 (EDT)
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| == ''Trade & Battle: Card Hero'' ==
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| {{multiframe
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| |[[File:TBCH Artwork Bomukingu.jpg|100x100px]][[File:KCBCH Artwork Bomukingu.jpg|100x100px]]
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| |King Bob-omb from ''Trade & Battle: Card Hero'' (left) and ''Kousoku Card Battle: Card Hero'' (right).
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| |size=200
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| }}
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| As mentioned on the [[List of references in Nintendo video games]] page, King Bob-omb, using his original Japanese name for this Japan-only series, appears as a monster, using a version of his design stylized after that game's aesthetic (but is blatantly him - the second game's is just him but recolored and with different eyes and fancier trappings). I have put this on the page, but it was removed for being "unlikely" or "not close enough" or "[[Defuse or Lose|not a singular character]] [[You're the Bob-omb|in this appearance]]." The problem is, we ''do'' list other appearances on that page (since, as Nintendo games, they are first party appearances) in the relevant articles, such as [[Goomba]], [[Spiny]], [[Pokey]], [[Lakitu]], [[Wart]], and a huge amount of other things in the ''Legend of Zelda'' games, Spiny appearing in ''Kirby'' with a similarly series-based stylized design, [[Eggplant Man]] appearing in ''Chibi-Robo'', various fish appearing in ''Animal Crossing'', and many, many more. I fail to see how this is any different at all, aside from being more obscure. If this game actually ''were'' localized and gave him his usual English name, would we still not list him? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:13, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
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| :It is not uncommon for ''Super Mario'' games to take artistic liberties to achieve certain gameplay functions, especially for scenarios where there are multiple players. So, personally, I do not think the presence of two King Bob-ombs in those multiplayer minigames really matter and are best viewed as the exceptions, not the rule. There are multiple [[Mario]]s in all versions of ''[[Mario Bros. (game)|Mario Bros.]]'', ''[[Mario Kart Tour]]'', the ''[[Super Smash Bros.]]'' series (etc.) for example, as well as multiple [[Luigi]]s in [[ScareScraper]] mode.
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| :I was not involved in earlier discussions for the characters you mention. However, I do not think it is accurate to explicitly assert that characters designed by other studios, in other companies, in non-''Mario'' media are literally the same entities present in the franchise proper, regardless of who publishes it, and I think it is healthier we take a more cautious approach. As an example of something I hold to be true, we know [[Wart]] is the {{iw|zeldawiki|Mamu}} in ''Link's Awakening'' because:
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| {{multiframe
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| |[[File:Wart Walk.gif|50x50px]][[File:TLOZLA Mamu sprite.png|50x50px]]
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| |Wart and Mamu
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| |size=100
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| }}
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| :#The characters look identical.
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| :#The whole scenario of the game supports non-''Zelda'' characters intermingling in a dream scenario, including Prince Richard and Kirby, so the presence of ''Super Mario'' material is not unusual. Because of their shared creative histories at EAD, ''Zelda'' and ''Mario'' interact somewhat regularly anyways.
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| :#''Link's Awakening'' was an EAD-developed project with a small team, several of which were involved with the ''Super Mario'' platformers and thus have a lot of familiarity and creative involvement with its characters.
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| :#The developers have directly said they included non-''Zelda'' characters in ''Link's Awakening'', so there is some explicit authorial intent to support this reading of the text, that Mamu and Wart are one in the same.
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| :The first point I brought up is the most important one to me because I believe art and media should be chiefly interpreted in isolation to what the authors intended, and as one can see through the sprites, Mamu and Wart are indistinguishable. Pretty cut and dry. However, the subsequent points I mention are at least contextualizing.
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| :As an example of something I do not support, I offer {{iw|wikirby|Togezo}}. I think asserting that it is literally the same creature as the ''Super Mario'' [[Spiny]] is just incorrect. Because:
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| {{multiframe
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| |[[File:SMBSpiny.jpg|100x100px]][[File:KA Spiny Artwork.png|100x100px]]
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| |Spiny and Togezo
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| |size=200
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| }}
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| :#Unlike Mamu and Wart, these characters just do not look alike. There are {{iw|wikirby|Rolling Turtle|turtle enemies}} in ''Kirby'' and when {{iw|wikirby|Samus|"Guest Stars" make cameos}} they retain their original designs. So if they wanted Togezo to be understood to be the same turtle creature found in ''Super Mario Bros.'', I do not think they would look as different as they do from each other.
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| :#''Kirby's Adventure'', the game in which Togezo debuted, is not built on a lot of crossover appearances from other franchises, and it is not emphasized as a particularly distinct enemy in the game, so it would be a bit strange to include just one preestablished enemy.
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| :#HAL Laboratory is an independent studio that are not heavily involved with the ''Super Mario'' franchise, neither are any of their staff members, especially at the time of ''Kirby's Adventure''. It is more reasonable to think that HAL was "inspired" by EAD's ''Mario'' media by making this original enemy, not literally incorporating the same creature in their game.
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| :#As far as I know, no one at HAL has ever commented on this enemy's background, nor has it explicitly been stated to be "that enemy from the ''Mario'' games!" in any Japanese material. If they did, I suspect they would use more ambiguous terminology like "based on" or "similar to Spinies from ''Super Mario Bros.''" Basically, if they wanted it to be the ''Mario'' Spiny, it would just say it is.
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| :I go over those examples just to provide context into my thought process, and how I do not view these scenarios to be the same. For Bomu Kingu specifically, I think it is inaccurate to assert it is the same entity as ''Super Mario 64''{{'}}s King Bob-omb. It misrepresents both of their histories to lump them like that. Beyond the fact that both characters are only superficially similar to one another, ''Trade & Battle: Card Hero'' is a monster-collecting RPG, and Bomu Kingu is the leveled-up form of [https://www.nintendo.co.jp/n02/dmg/ahhj/colle/mm/008.jpg another bomb creature] that does not resemble any ''Super Mario'' character. I think its redesign and rename in ''Kousoku Card Battle: Card Hero'' was an intentional lampshade to our King Bob-omb, but it does not mean they are the same entities. At least Togezos and Spinies are mechanically similar in their respective games. King Bob-omb and Bomu Kingu emerged in different games, were designed by different studios, different people, and serve different functions in each of their games. As a member of the species, one would at least expect [[Bob-omb]]s to be involved in ''Trade & Battle: Card Hero'', but there are none. Unless someone at Intelligent Systems said this monster ''is'' the boss from ''Super Mario 64'', not just based on it, I do not think there would be an avenue where I could support lumping them together as one. Sorry. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 23:15, June 5, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::I was unaware it had a different name for the first game, as that was not written yet, but that's a good point. I still think at the very least, the second one could be mentioned on here, considering its name ''and'' design were clearly deliberately based around the baron of all blasting matter here. In regards to Togezo, though, I think it's telling that they replaced it for the remake with an original creation, with the only other replacements being the cool turtle becoming that elephant thing from the anime and the humanish Bounder becoming a pig that's substantially less humanish. Note how Capsule J in KSS - which was {{wp|Twinbee}} in all but name - was replaced with "updated" and very different-looking versions J2 and J3 for later games, so that feels like a similar situation. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 02:09, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::(In difference to Phan Phan, it is extremely adorable.) I agree it is inherently interesting and worth mentioning Bomu Kingu on the page. I added the reference information in the first place. But I still would not frame them as the same entity. Rather, that it seems to based on King Bob-omb. Is that fair? - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 06:50, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::(I think Phan Phan's kinda ugly, personally, in an uncanny valley sort of way.) Since it existed before sharing the name, that makes sense. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:14, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::On a tangential note, I do think it's kinda weird that Kirby's Togezo is being covered on our Spiny page, for the exact reasons that Nintendo101 pointed out. A reference? Sure: Togezo literally uses Spiny's Japanese name (and its first appearance has its Japanese name being the English Spiny name), and its spiky helmet is comparable to a Spiny's shell. But the same creature? No way. By that logic, [[bulbapedia:Blastoise|Blastoise]] is a [[Magikoopa]] variant due to their similar Japanese names. {{User:Arend/sig}} 03:47, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::Except in that case, Blastoise and Magikoopa don't look even remotely similar other than being turtle-based. At the time, Spiny was usually shown in sprites with a shadowed black head, which matches the Kirby appearance, and the ability to roll into a spiky ball is shared. By all accounts, it's Spiny in a Kirby-themed design, the difference beginning and ending with having two feet instead of four. And inconsistent numbers of feet is [[Spike Top|not]] [[Para-Beetle|unknown]] in regards to squat turtles in ''Mario'' games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:14, June 6, 2024 (EDT)
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| == King bob-omb is a mega bob-omb!? ==
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| Why do you think King Bob omb was called big Bob omb in some games, is he an enlarged Bob omb or he's just a Mega Bob omb? [[Special:Contributions/94.9.174.199|94.9.174.199]] 10:23, July 13, 2024 (EDT)
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