Editing Talk:Kaptain Skurvy

== Consider him to be a Kannon ==
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Kaptain Skurvy is a character who appears in everyone's favorite cartoon, ''Donkey Kong Country''. Jokes aside, he is a Kremling pirate who happens to share his model with General Klump, who is based on the Klump enemies. [[The Kongo Bongo Festival of Lights|An episode]] even reveals they are brothers! Now the ''DKC'' cartoon is divorced from the game series it adapts, but it's not like they don't include certain elements from the games. For example, most Kremlings make an appearance, although Kritters and Klaptraps are the only ones who are referred to by name. Kremlings are generically referred to as crocodiles in the show. Klump and Krusha are singular members of the enemies they are [[Klump|based]] [[Krusha|on]]. As a result, the show never directly states Kaptain Skurvy is indeed a Kannon. However, I am at least certain Skurvy is supposed to be based or inspired by them. Firstly, the show was released after the [[Donkey Kong Country|first]] [[Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest|two]] games were released and the show uses elements from both games, notably, Dixie Kong appears in it, so the idea the people working on it were given reference sheets of the various Kremling enemies, including Kannon isn't unlikely. But my big piece of evidence goes to design. For one, there hasn't been a case where Klumps wearing pirate clothes is a normal thing, like how Lakitus [[Fishin' Lakitu|occasionally use fishing poles]], as only Kannons have shown that behavior. As for Skurvy's design, it's mostly pretty faithful. His pirate hat is pretty close. Sure, it uses a Kremling skull and not a human one, but that honestly makes sense as a design point and could be a reference to the Gangplank Galleon's flag design (it's also the emblem of Skurvy's ship). He even has earrings! His belt does look slightly different and his boots are not as big, but the show also has a habit of not being 1:1 on designs either; just look at the Kritters or the Klaptraps for instance. These aren't the same models used in the games, but rather rough recreations of them. He also uses a hand cannon (watch "Legend of the Crystal Coconut") which while not a large cannon, is meant to reference the fact that Kannons used large cannons. As I mentioned earlier, the show has a lot of creative licenses.

My point is that Kaptain Skurvy, based on circumstantial evidence, is supposed to be based on a Kannon and is presumably not a coincidence. The show did come out after the first games were released, so it's not like the creators probably came up with a generic pirate design for a Klump character to wear. While the show never refers to him as such and doesn't give him the name Kannon, not all enemy characters have names based on who they are and the show rarely uses on-point names for these subjects, aside from the aforementioned Kritters and Klaptraps. The goal of this proposal is to consider Kaptain Skurvy to be a Kannon and change his species from Klump to Kannon, as well as stating that Kaptain Skurvy is somewhat based on them. I can't think of too many counterarguments I could get, other than there isn't hard evidence that Kaptain Skurvy isn't based on one and sure, we don't have internal documents stating he was based on one. In that case, oppose the proposal.

'''Proposer''': {{User|TheUndescribableGhost}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 14, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Per proposal, matey!

====Oppose====
#{{User|Hewer}} Mention the similarities sure, but I'd rather we didn't delve into speculation and definitively state that he is a Kannon when it's not officially confirmed, same reason I opposed the recent [[Talk:Grifty#Classify as a Little Mouser|Grifty]] and [[Talk:Podley#Consider Podley / Podler Beanish|Podley]] proposals.
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Pure speculation.
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Speculation.

====Comments====
Speculation pure and simple. He just looks like that because of the art in the show and it was never confirmed either. I deleted what the Supper Mario Broth thinks that the lyrics are for the [[Battery]] from Paper Mario: Color Splash because it contradicts what's given in-game. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:43, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
:What do  you mean by, "because of the art in the show?" I don't think what the opposition is saying is completely invalid; they are making good points. I just don't understand what this argument means exactly. Like, the artstyle accidently makes him look like that? I mean, there is an [[Ape-Nesia|episode]] where DK becomes a pirate and the assets there don't appear to be the same as Skurvy's. Maybe there's an episode where that belt texture was used? I did try to do some research and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmIYF02KdQ did see that the boots on Klump do happen to be the same as Skurvy's,] so there's that. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:24, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
@Hewer I do agree with your stance on Grify and Podley. For the former, they only thing going for it is that he's a rodent and it's a bit silly to say that all rodents are Little Mousers. Sure, the eyes are similar, but it's likely unintentional. Likewise, the Podley example is a stretch (not to dunk on fan theories), because we are here to state the actual facts and it's possible that the people working on these games may have accidently created a Beanish character. We don't want to spread misinformation once Nintendo states they are something else or cause some [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia|citogenesis]]. And I get the argument regarding Kaptain Skruvy, because the show never directly confirms him to be one. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that worked on this show didn't even know what Kannons were, because the show itself is so heavily divorced. In comparison to those two previous examples, the only things not making him a Kannon is a different hat emblem, smaller boots, no eyepatch, and a small cannon rather than a large one. For the record, General Klump is green rather than purple and his boots do like less detailed. I guess I am delving a little into theory rather than fact here, given we have no internal documents here and the only way we could answer these questions is to talk to the people who worked on the cartoon. I wouldn't consider [[Green Kroc]] to be a [[Klomp]], simply because Klomps' biggest traits are having a peg leg on their opposite foot, something Green Kroc lacks. Not all pirate Kremlings are Klomps, similar to how not all pirate Goombas are [[Pirate Goomba|Pirate]] [[Captain Goomba (Mario Party 8)|Goombas]]. I think is argument is pretty valid. If only there was a way to get into touch with the people who worked on the show. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:56, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
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 == Consider him to be a Kannon ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|3-4|do not consider him a Kannon}}
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 ====Support====
 #{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Per proposal, matey!
-#{{User|DesaMatt}} Not everything has to be spelled out. The [[Koopa General]] is considered a Paratroopa even if it's never say he is one in the movie because it's pretty clear. If DKC2 was out by that point, and Skurvy shares specific design elements such as  earrings, belt and pirate theme, and looks as much like a Kannon as Show K. Rool looks like Game K. Rool, then I don't see a reason to not consider him a Kannon. For the record, I opposed (in spirit) the Podley and Grifty proposals, I just see more intention with Skurvy being a Kannon than I do with Podley being a beanish or Grifty being a Little Mouser.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per DesaMatt, and I personally think it's -more speculative- to list Skurvy as a "Klump" when the animated interpretation only has one Klump representative.
 ====Oppose====
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 #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Pure speculation.
 #{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Speculation.
-#{{User|Sdman213}} Speculation, per all.
 ====Comments====
 Speculation pure and simple. He just looks like that because of the art in the show and it was never confirmed either. I deleted what the Supper Mario Broth thinks that the lyrics are for the [[Battery]] from Paper Mario: Color Splash because it contradicts what's given in-game. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:43, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
 :What do  you mean by, "because of the art in the show?" I don't think what the opposition is saying is completely invalid; they are making good points. I just don't understand what this argument means exactly. Like, the artstyle accidently makes him look like that? I mean, there is an [[Ape-Nesia|episode]] where DK becomes a pirate and the assets there don't appear to be the same as Skurvy's. Maybe there's an episode where that belt texture was used? I did try to do some research and [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOmIYF02KdQ did see that the boots on Klump do happen to be the same as Skurvy's,] so there's that. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:24, July 1, 2024 (EDT)
-@Hewer I do agree with your stance on Grify and Podley. For the former, they only thing going for it is that he's a rodent and it's a bit silly to say that all rodents are Little Mousers. Sure, the eyes are similar, but it's likely unintentional. Likewise, the Podley example is a stretch (not to dunk on fan theories), because we are here to state the actual facts and it's possible that the people working on these games may have accidently created a Beanish character. We don't want to spread misinformation once Nintendo states they are something else or cause some [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia|citogenesis]]. And I get the argument regarding Kaptain Skruvy, because the show never directly confirms him to be one. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that worked on this show didn't even know what Kannons were, because the show itself is so heavily divorced. In comparison to those two previous examples, the only things not making him a Kannon is a different hat emblem, smaller boots, no eyepatch, and a small cannon rather than a large one. For the record, General Klump is green rather than purple and his boots do like less detailed. I guess I am delving a little into theory rather than fact here, given we have no internal documents here and the only way we could answer these questions is to talk to the people who worked on the cartoon. I wouldn't consider [[Green Kroc]] to be a [[Klomp]], simply because Klomps' biggest traits are having a peg leg on their opposite foot, something Green Kroc lacks. Not all pirate Kremlings are Klomps, similar to how not all pirate Goombas are [[Pirate Goomba|Pirate]] [[Captain Goomba (Mario Party 8)|Goombas]]. I think this argument is pretty valid. If only there was a way to get into touch with the people who worked on the show. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:56, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
+@Hewer I do agree with your stance on Grify and Podley. For the former, they only thing going for it is that he's a rodent and it's a bit silly to say that all rodents are Little Mousers. Sure, the eyes are similar, but it's likely unintentional. Likewise, the Podley example is a stretch (not to dunk on fan theories), because we are here to state the actual facts and it's possible that the people working on these games may have accidently created a Beanish character. We don't want to spread misinformation once Nintendo states they are something else or cause some [[Super Mario Bros. Encyclopedia|citogenesis]]. And I get the argument regarding Kaptain Skruvy, because the show never directly confirms him to be one. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the people that worked on this show didn't even know what Kannons were, because the show itself is so heavily divorced. In comparison to those two previous examples, the only things not making him a Kannon is a different hat emblem, smaller boots, no eyepatch, and a small cannon rather than a large one. For the record, General Klump is green rather than purple and his boots do like less detailed. I guess I am delving a little into theory rather than fact here, given we have no internal documents here and the only way we could answer these questions is to talk to the people who worked on the cartoon. I wouldn't consider [[Green Kroc]] to be a [[Klomp]], simply because Klomps' biggest traits are having a peg leg on their opposite foot, something Green Kroc lacks. Not all pirate Kremlings are Klomps, similar to how not all pirate Goombas are [[Pirate Goomba|Pirate]] [[Captain Goomba (Mario Party 8)|Goombas]]. I think is argument is pretty valid. If only there was a way to get into touch with the people who worked on the show. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 20:56, July 2, 2024 (EDT)
-:I'm certainly not denying they look similar, but I wasn't denying that Podley looks like the Beanish either. Official word on the matter is more important than looks, and here, there's none. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:07, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:: Agreed. There's no official word that Skurvy's supposed to be a Kannon, hence the opposition. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-@DesaMatt: Koopa General at least appeared along with Paratroopas in the movie, giving us more of a basis to make the connection. Skurvy doesn't have that going for him. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 14:50, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:I concur with Hewer; that's a weak argument. [[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 16:01, July 3, 2024 (EDT)
-:: @DesaMatt: Yeah, it's only obvious that the Koopa General is a Paratroopa not only because it's obvious but because of other Paratroopas in the film. Skurvy was never officially confirmed to be a Kannon and he's just a King K. Rool recolor in pirate gear. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 10:51, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-::You mean, Klump? The King K. Rool recolor is [[Kutlass (character)|Kutlass]].[[User:TheUndescribableGhost|TheUndescribableGhost]] ([[User talk:TheUndescribableGhost|talk]]) 17:35, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-@LinkTheLefty: Skurvy is established to be Klump's brother and shares his model, so I'd say "more speculative" is quite a stretch, but sure we can remove that. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 14:54, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
-:: @LinkTheLefty: The whole point that me and the others opposing are making is that the creators never said Skurvy was a Kannon. That's why we're opposing. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:58, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-:::This honestly would be like saying "In the SMW cartoon, Larry's hair was recolored to a light shade of green to make him look closer to his sprite." Not only is this false (his hair in the sprite is white, NOT green), but no official word on the matter has been spoken, only based on pure speculation. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:51, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-I've come to make an announcement: Kaptain Skurvy was never officially confirmed to be a Kannon. That's right, he's just a Klump recolor dressed in pirate gear. As such, trying to claim he's a Kannon is speculation, pure and simple. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 07:38, July 6, 2024 (EDT)
-:I mean, Skurvy wears the same pirate gear (same hat, same belt, same boots) as Kannon, and his skintone also matches much closer to that of Kannon and Klump than his brother [[General Klump]] (Klumps were ''never green'' in the games). Given that the cartoon has made much more drastic design changes (e.g. whatever the hell they did to [[Candy Kong]]), it's not too much of a stretch to assume Skurvy is supposed to be a Kannon. {{User:Arend/sig}} 08:41, July 6, 2024 (EDT)
-::But it's still an assumption, and thus still better avoided. Again, no one's arguing that they look dissimilar, just that there's no official word on the matter for us to go by. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 17:32, July 6, 2024 (EDT)