Editing Talk:Hot-Hot Rock

== Why si this in dangerous objects? ==

Why si this on dangerous objects, it is alive and as the description indicates it is sentient, it is an enemy!

[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
:While they appear to be alive, they're not enemies because they don't actively attack Mario and his friends. The Hot-Hot Rocks act as obstacles instead. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 22:31, January 31, 2025 (EST)
::That seems a bit debatable... I would say the way they pulse with heat and a more strained expression could be considered an attack, similar to a Thwomp. But even if that doesn't really count, what makes [[Hoppo]]s enemies in the same game? They seem to have much less of an attack.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 01:16, February 1, 2025 (EST)
:::I think what qualifies as an enemy versus a hazard is inherently a little unclear. For example, it is not clear to me why a [[Piranha Plant]] is considered an enemy in ''Super Mario Galaxy'', whereas a [[thorny flower]] in the same game is not. Both can be destroyed, both are living plants, and both can damage Mario. But the latter is never included in any official bestiaries. It is also not always clear to me whether being "alive" is even a necessary requirement for enemies, because it leads to circular questions not really provided by the games. (Are [[Mechakoopa]]s "alive?" What about [[Amp]]s or their faceless relatives [[:File:SMG Asset Model Big Amp.png|Zap Ball]]s? If being alive is a division between enemies and hazards, is there something similar between characters and non-damaging objects? And if that is the case, then would we not consider [[tree]]s to be characters since they are alive? If they need to have a face, then would we not consider [[Rotating Block]]s or [[Fire Flower]]s to be NPCs? Are these divisions even helpful for articles at this point?) So, typically, I have personally come to be reliant on what the publisher of the works themselves state are the enemies within a particular game, and then work from what they list to determine if any unlisted subjects qualify as enemies as well. I recently conceded that [[Note Piranha Plant]]s make sense to be listed as enemies because the way they engage with projectile bubbles is the same way other enemies respond, whereas an obstacle like a [[Fireball (obstacle)|fireball]] is simply extinguished, for example. For Hot-Hot Rocks, I do not personally think being a block with eyes really indicates anything in terms of its categorization because blocks have eyes in many games, including other ones in ''Super Mario Bros. Wonder''. The expression of Hot-Hot Rocks changes in the same manner as [[Downpour Cloud]]s and [[Light-Up-Lift]]s, which I would not consider to be characters because of they are unmoving components of the environment within which they are encountered, so they make more intuitive sense as "platforms." Hot-Hot Rocks are the same type of subject in my eye, just one that causes damage when they heat up. I do not know if that is enough to make something that looks and behaves the way it does to be an enemy in my opinion, but maybe I am too rigid in my perspective. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 05:09, February 1, 2025 (EST)
I think that what can be considered an enemy is a conscious living being that wants to harm the character or a being with little intelligence but intentions to harm the character, downpor cloud has no intentions of harming the protagonist and he does not work as a team like the hot ones. rocks and ker pops, the thorny plants of Mario Galaxy are not considered enemies since despite being alive and being able to harm the character, they are not conscious of doing so, there are other enemies that seem to be unaware when doing what they do but they still have the intention to harm the character like the moonsnake, ice blocks (yoshi wolly world) among others, but good to finish I think that the hot rocks should be enemies since they look conscious when doing so and unlike other blocks with eyes, the hot rocks do They demonstrate emotions such as anger or calm, demonstrating that they are aware of their surroundings and who they want to harm.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
:I mean, standard ?-type blocks demonstrate emotions in ''Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3''. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:16, February 2, 2025 (EST)
:Don't Hot-Hot Rocks just heat up in set, timeable intervals all on their own, just like many other fiery obstacles like [[Burner]]s or [[Lava Geyser]]s? How do we know they want to harm the player character and not just passively do that?
:This is a series known for putting eyes on objects, like hills, clouds, and other blocks, even within this same game. I am not saying Hot-Hot Rocks or any of these other objects are not "conscious," but why does that matter? The subject itself is a block platform in the levels it shows up in and tilts its eyes to convey it is heating up. You cannot break or defeat it, it is just there. But you can wall jump between and walk on them. This are typically the types of subjects we recognize as objects, and I don't think Hot-Hot Rocks are doing anything particular distinct that would lead me to think they are an enemy and not an object. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:20, February 2, 2025 (EST)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :Don't Hot-Hot Rocks just heat up in set, timeable intervals all on their own, just like many other fiery obstacles like [[Burner]]s or [[Lava Geyser]]s? How do we know they want to harm the player character and not just passively do that?
 :This is a series known for putting eyes on objects, like hills, clouds, and other blocks, even within this same game. I am not saying Hot-Hot Rocks or any of these other objects are not "conscious," but why does that matter? The subject itself is a block platform in the levels it shows up in and tilts its eyes to convey it is heating up. You cannot break or defeat it, it is just there. But you can wall jump between and walk on them. This are typically the types of subjects we recognize as objects, and I don't think Hot-Hot Rocks are doing anything particular distinct that would lead me to think they are an enemy and not an object. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 15:20, February 2, 2025 (EST)
-It's probably worth pointing out that Nintendo themselves don't classify Hot-Hot Rocks as enemies, if [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/history/wonder/index.html the official Mario Portal] is anything to go by.<br>As for myself, I'd classify Hot-Hot Rocks as obstacles simply because they're ''completely stationary'': they don't move at all beyond shifting from hot to cold (which doesn't require movement), and they don't particularly look like they ''could'' move, either (these are pretty much variants of a typical [[Block]], after all, which are also always stationary objects); compare [[Spike Trap]]s, especially the ones that can retract spikes. "But Arend", you might say, "what about [[Poison Mushroom]]s?" Well, since regular [[Mushroom]]s are always considered items anyway, it would be a bit weird to consider a Poison Mushroom an enemy, when the [[Super Mushroom]] isn't considered an ally or friend either. And again, [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/character/mario/en/history/smb2/index.html Nintendo doesn't consider Poison Mushrooms as enemies, either]. {{User:Arend/sig}} 15:30, February 2, 2025 (EST)
-:I understand your comparison but at the same time I contradict it, unlike mushrooms, as I mentioned, hot rocks have the ability to express emotions and have a form of momentary defeat, although they are stationary, that is not a problem since there are many similar enemies such as The stationary enemies of Super Princess Peach, Bouncing Blade and Spring Vault are some examples, so it is not contrary evidence, the poisonous mushroom, although in Mario 3D Land it can chase the player, is not an enemy since it counts as a powerup but negative, its ability to chase Mario was only presented in one game and is very limited, showing that the mushroom is probably not aware of harming the player, which makes it a dangerous object as I mentioned. previously.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])
-:Also, although the official Nintendo website has done a good job collecting data, they have missed some, like in New Super Mario Bros 2, where they finally recognized Gold Fire Piranha Plant but they forgot about Gold Big Piranha Plant or Gold Micro Goomba.[[User:Sorbetti|Sorbetti]] ([[User talk:Sorbetti|talk]])