Editing Talk:Honey Queen

Where is the proof? I haven't heard anything about Queen Bee. {{User:Pokemon DP/sig}}
:Didn't {{user|Peachycakes 3.14}} tell something alike on the Bee Mario article? We'll have to go through the sources. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 06:36, 17 July 2007 (EDT)

I remember seeing it in a video, plus a bunch of bees mention it. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

== Queen Bee or Honey Queen? ==

There has been leaked information about Mario Kart 7 and the last two new characters are Wiggler and the Queen Bee (mean to be Honey Queen). Please if you're attempting to change the name or add more information about the character, be sure that you have enough evidences to show the facts and that her real name is Honey Queen. {{User:Coincollector/sig}}

Her Japanese name, which is what I can tell you, but that doesn't mean Queen Bee (the article) has to change her name.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 22:12, 29 October 2011 (EDT)
:Her Japanese name is Honey Queen, but the English bees clearly call her Queen Bee, so per our naming conventions, that's our name. Unless she gets named otherwise directly in MK7 in English, this won't change. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}

::It'll still won't change. I prefer to still be called Queen Bee until another game besides ''[[Mario Kart 7]]'' calls her Honey Bee. Wait a minute, would that picture that confims Queen Bee and Wiggler will be new characters take place in Japan or something? If yes, I'd understand.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 22:23, 29 October 2011 (EDT)

:::I think it's an English photo, but that's kinda a moot point right now. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}


== Honey Queen is proper, official name! ==

http://www.platformnation.com/2011/10/30/mario-kart-7-new-characters-revealed/ reveals that Queen Bee's proper name is in fact Honey Queen. The article's name should be changed! [[User:MarioMaster720]]
:No it doesn't. For all we know, the magazine made the name up. It's best not to do anything until the game is released. {{User:Mario4Ever/sig}}
::It wasn't made up, it's the japanese name of Queen Bee.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 08:49, 1 November 2011 (EDT)
:::If anything, when the time comes, we can still put the name "Honey Queen", but have it redirect to this article. It's best to go by the first official name that's been revealed, which is obviously "Queen Bee". --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 12:16, 1 November 2011 (EDT)


== Sarah Natochenny ==

Announced what Sarah Natochenny is the voice of Queen Bee in Mario Kart 7.
{{unsigned|Aaja}}

: Where did you get this possible info, by ay chance? Honestly, I think it's best to wait until the game itself gets released before reaching any real conclusions. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 10:50, 5 November 2011 (EDT)


== Her name is Honey Queen! Nintendo says so! ==

http://mariokart7.nintendo.com/characters/

On the official Nintendo Mario Kart 7 website her name is Honey Queen. This isn't nay rumor or anyhting. Nintendo created the page and if they say it's Honey Queen, then IT IS HONEY QUEEN!!!! Article name needs to be changed AT ONCE. Unless someone has a very good reason why it shouldn't be renamed. [[User:MarioMaster720]]

: No, that's not what we do. The standard for us is that we go by the FIRST official name that is revealed for that character, no exceptions. The best we can do (which I will attempt now) is to add the alternate name to the article's summary. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 17:41, 22 November 2011 (EST)

: Urgh... can't do it now because I was attempting to edit from my cell phone. But it's on my "to do" list later tonight or during the course of tomorrow. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 17:48, 22 November 2011 (EST)

Was the name "Queen Bee" ever mentioned in the SMG series. I think that she was only called "Queen" or "Highness"? [[User:MarioMaster720]]

Princess Peach's first official name was Princess Toadstool but her article is titled Princess Peach, what's up wih that?
Why can't we do that to this article?

-'''IGGY7735'''

: Because for that article, the majority know Peach as Princess Peach (hence why the article title is that way). This article is a different case; since Queen Bee is the first official name as revealed by Nintendo since the Super Mario Galaxy games, that's why the article title is this way. The title "Honey Queen" would be a redirect to this article's page. --M. C. - "Mario Gals" Fan! [[User:MeritC|User Page]] | [[User_talk:MeritC|Talk Page]] 02:01, 26 November 2011 (EST)

==Queen Bee vs. Honey Queen==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|green|queen bee 18-8}}
This wiki seems to be inconsistent on how we name Her Royal Highness. In most articles related Mario Kart 7, she's called Honey Queen, yet the name of the article itself is Queen Bee, along with Super Mario Galaxy-related stuff calling her that. We need to settle on something.

EDIT: Upon selecting a name, that name will be the one we always use, no questions asked. 

'''Proposer''': {{User|Magikrazy51}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 18, 2011 23:59 GMT. 

====Queen Bee====
#{{User|MeritC}} You're forgetting that via another existing main proposal, I believe, we're supposed to use the '''first''' English name revealed for characters for the most part unless there's a valid reason. In this case, since the name "Queen Bee" was revealed first since ''Super Mario Galaxy'', I place in my vote that this article's name stays this way. Plus, the name "Honey Queen" is already used as a redirect to this article, anyway.
#{{User|Pokémon Trainer Red}} Per MeritC
#{{User|Mario4Ever}} Per MeritC (the proposal in question can be found [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_7#Multiple_Canon_Names|here]]).
#{{User|Bop1996}} This name is consistent with policy, the other isn't.
#{{User|Raven Effect}} Per Policy
#{{User|M&SG}} - Per what MeritC stated.
#{{User|Zero777}} Per all
#{{User|B.wilson}} Per MeritC and Mario4Ever.
#{{User|Phoenix}} Per all.
#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Her Royal Highness had this as her first confirmed name.
#{{User|ThePremiumYoshi}} - Per All!	
#{{User|New Super Yoshi}} Per my Comment Below.
#{{User|Toad85}} Queen Bee is her original name, thus the article should be called "Queen Bee."  It's not that hard.
#{{User|MarioComix}} Per MeritC, and as well, since Queen Bee is her more famous name, and also it's been used in more games thus far.
#{{User|Propeller Toad}} Essentially per MeritC. In my own opinion, I believe that the name her article should go under is the one that she was originally given. Her name change in Mario Kart 7 is not too significant to make the change, and unless future games continue calling her by her future name we should continue using her original name.
#{{User|Technickal}} Per MeritC and Propeller Toad.
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per Merit
#{{User|Yoshidude99}} Per Toad85

====Honey Queen====
<s>#{{User|Magikrazy51}} Since this is the recentest name, I say we go with this.</s>
#{{User|King Booranha}} If Nintendo call her Honey Queen, it '''''Is''''' Honey Queen.
#{{User|MarioMaster720}} Per all.
#{{User|Tails777}} Nintendo has recently called her Honey Queen so per all.
#{{User|Arend}} See my reasons below.
#{{User|DKPetey99}} A few characters go by aliases, so we should keep this. And if Nintendo stated her as Queen Bee '''and''' Honey Queen, but Honey Queen recently, that's her name.
#{{User|Toad'ShyGuy}} Actually, I've never seen any kind of proof that she's officially named Queen Bee. In the MG games they just call her "queen", "majesty", and such. Never Queen Bee. In MK7, She is just named Honey Queen. And Princess Toadstool is changed too, and in the header "'''Her name is Honey Queen! Nintendo says so!'''", MeritC, that's not a clear and logic reason. Per Arend. PLEASE READ HIS COMMENTS BELOW!
#{{User|Torngentleman2}} I don't believe "Queen Bee" was used as an actual name of reference in the Galaxy games, only in the Trading Card Games. The trading cards are official, but they are not made by Nintendo. Mario Kart 7 is. Plus, Honey Queen is now a much more well-known name, so I '''support''' moving it.
#{{User|Vincent}} This is the official name. The other name was made by the card company (if Nintendo made the cards, I'm changing my vote)

====Comments====
<cough>[[Octoomba]]<cough> Oh, excuse me. I seem to be coming down with a recent-names-we-currently-use-in-articles cold. {{User|Magikrazy51}}
:The idea is that Nintendo directly confirmed the SMG2 name, while the SMG name came from the Prima guide. In this case, Nintendo directly confirmed her name as "Queen Bee" in both SMG and SMG2, so the comparison is invalid. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
::I see. It seems I can only find her name as Queen Bee in the trading cards. In the game, Her Royal Highness is reffered to as "The Queen" or "Her Majesty". If you know where she's called "Queen Bee" in that game, that'd be nice to know and I might change my vote (happily, even). {{User|Magikrazy51}}
:::I believe one of the bees says something like "All new bees are required to visit the Queen Bee" or something like that. {{User:Bop1996/sig}}
::::The exact quote is, "New Bees must greet Her Highness, Queen Bee!" with Queen Bee in red text. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 21:13, 5 December 2011 (EST)
:::::Honey queen is the Japanese name of Queen Bee. Big Boo is referred to as his Japanese name Atomic Boo in ''[[Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door]]''. I support Queen Bee. [[User:Technickal|Technickal]] 17:32, 10 December 2011 (EST)
−	
@MeritC Is Princess Peach called Princess Toadstool and is Bowser called King Koopa. I would say Queen Bee because Honey Queen was only a Spin-Off name. If she appears in another Mainstream game of appears in more Spin-offs under that name, it should be changed. {{User|New Super Yoshi}}

---<br>
I wasn't aware there was a proposal to change the name, so I moved the article myself. Fortunately, somebody moved it back. About the name, it <s>should</s> MUST be moved to Honey Queen. It's hard to explain why, but I will do my best. Here are a few reasons why it should be moved. There are also a few counterargument, because I don't agree with all the given arguments supporting Queen Bee. We should move this article to Honey Queen because...
*It's the most recent official name we got. 
**If a character's name changes in the series, we use the most recent name and not the oldest name. That’s why we don't use the names [[Princess Peach|Princess Toadstool]], [[Bowser|King Koopa]] or [[Mario|Jumpman]].
** We only use older names when we are talking about older games. The article name must be the name we use now. So that’s why the article name should be Honey Queen, but the paragraph about [[Super Mario Galaxy]] must refer to her as Queen Bee, because that’s her name in that game.
*The articles’ name does not fall under the first English name rule. 
**The first English name rule is a bit confusing, but when you understand it, it’s easy. This rule was created to determine if we use NA names or EU names and not for anything else. If a game is released first in North America, we use the North American name and if a game is released first in Europe, we use the European name. For this article, the character’s name is the same everywhere in the world; this means the first name rule does not apply. 
**The name of this character has changed, but the first name rule does not cover this kind of problems as it's only used to determine it we use the EU name or NA.
*The Mario Kart series is not ''"just"'' a Spin-Off.
**The Mario Kart series is more related the Main series than any other Mario Spin-Off. The reason is because the Mario Kart series is the only Spin-Off created by Nintendo, while other Spin-Offs are developed by other companies. Everything in the Mario Kart series fits perfectly in the main series. The information the Mario Kart series provide is valid information.
*If Nintendo says it’s Honey Queen, it’s true.
** Why would we argue with the company who created this character and the entire Mario Series? They made this character and they gave it the name Honey Queen. There isn’t a more reliable source than this.
That's what I have to say. {{User|Arend}}

I must disagree. I think the reason we use Queen Bee instead of Honey Queen, Mario instead of Jumpman, etc. is because they are more widely-known as their former name, AND they appear in more games with that name. Heck, they called King Boo "Big Boo" in Super Mario 64 DS! But they changed it back to King Boo, obviously because it was either the improper name, or they wanted to change his name but it didn't work out. I say we shall keep it as Queen Bee for now, and if she continues to appear under the name Honey Queen, THEN we shall change her name to Honey Queen.
As well, the ''Mario Kart'' series is just as much a spin-off as the Mario Party series. How else would Baby Mario, Baby Luigi, Baby Peach, Baby Daisy, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Daisy, Bowser, and Dry Bowser all co-exist at the same time, when they are all the same people? It's a spin-off, that's why! And how could there be so many Bowser Castles, Rainbow Roads, and Mario Circuits in the Mushroom Kingdom? It's a spin-off! There's a reason you don't see Toadette and Waluigi going off to appear in Super Mario 3D Land or something. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 20:41, 9 December 2011 (EST)

You do have a point but I do not agree. Queen Bee was only called Queen Bee once or twice in Mario Galaxy. Mario Kart 7 provides us a more clear name. The queen only appeared in three games, so there is no real ''more widely known name'' yet. In Mario Galaxy she was a minor character, but in Mario Kart 7 she is a major driver. It's only a matter of time before everyone will call her Honey Queen. 
In my opinion, the Mario Kart is not just a spin-off series. Well... Maybe it is just a spin-off, but there is something different about Mario Kart. Mario Kart is the most influential spin-off of them all. Characters or locations that (first) appeared in Mario Kart seem to return in other Mario games (and also in the main series. A few examples: Toadette made a cameo appearance in Super Mario Galaxy and the look of King Boo introduced in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! is used in all games ever since, including Super Mario 64 DS). Other spin-off games rarely are a big influence on the Mario series. Characters or locations who first appeared those spin-off games mostly do not appear out of they're series. Those spin-off feel separate from the Mario main series, while Mario Kart builds bridges with the main series. Items, locations (or location design) and characters that appear in the main games also appear in Mario Kart. What the Main Series builds is never broken down in Mario Kart, unlike other spin-offs. But your right the babies and Dry Bowser (and Metal Mario). Even in Mario Kart things are possible that aren't in the Main Games. But to sum it all up, what I mean to say is, just because it's Mario Kart doesn't mean it's invalid information. Mario Kart is one of the most reliable Mario series, because unlike most spin-offs, it plays in the same universe as the main series. This doesn't mean that I think the other spin-offs are less important, but I do notice that the Mario Kart series has way more influence on the other Mario games than any other spin-off. 
Let's move back to the main subject, the name of the article. I still think we should move the article to Honey Queen. I just don't see any reason why we should not. There are no rules that prevent the article from moving. Honey Queen is the most recent name, and Honey Queen made her first non-minor appearance with this name. That's why we should move. {{User|Arend}}

Well, so far, most fans who have played the ''Galaxy'' games call her Queen Bee, and most people (practically everyone on the Internet) call her Queen Bee.
And really, those were just female Toads that look like Toadette, because there are multiple "Toadettes" in that cutscene. And King Boo's look probably would've been used in later games, even if he didn't appear in Mario Kart: Double Dash!!
Since this new name has just been used only once, I think we should leave her name as is unless it is used again, which means that Nintendo would officially acknowledge her name as Honey Queen. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 01:44, 10 December 2011 (EST)

If she is called in the next game Queen Bee, we should keep the name. But we don't know the future. We don't know how she will be called in the next game or if she will appear again at all. Here on MarioWiki, we need to put information that is correct at this moment, those are the rules. Honey Queen is her current and correct English name, so we must move it, because those are the rules. The name Honey Queen is already officially acknowledged by Nintendo, because they used it and in one of their best selling game series too. And if it does turn out that her name is Queen Bee in the next game, we simply move it back. It is just one simple click on the move button. I am amazed this is such a huge deal. On MarioWiki, we have moved more article names to lesser used, but more recent names. This article may not be an exception. UPDATE: After a bit of research I found out she was never called Queen Bee in Super Mario Galaxy 2. She was always called ''Our Queen''. {{User|Arend}}

---<br>
I'm sorry {{User|Torngentleman2}}, but if you had read my earlier comment, you would see that I have inserted an '''exact''' quote '''directly''' from the game, which is spoken by the second [[Bee]] from where you start in the [[Honeyhive Galaxy]] in ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' in the first mission. Here it is again for you: "New Bees must greet Her Highness, Queen Bee!" Note that in-game, "Queen Bee" is in red text, and capitalized '''exactly''' as you see here. Thus, part of your reason for changing "Queen Bee" to "Honey Queen" has become obsolete. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 11:02, 12 December 2011 (EST)

:A screenshot would be best for settling the issue, in my opinion. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] 11:06, 12 December 2011 (EST)

::[[Image:New Bees must greet Her Highness, Queen Bee!.jpg|thumb|left]] Here you go, as you asked for. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] 19:20, 12 December 2011 (EST)

:::And he delivers. Wonderful. [[User:Lord Grammaticus|Lord Grammaticus]] 01:44, 13 December 2011 (EST)

{{br}}
== What now? ==

The proposal above passed, but the changes were never made. I moved the page, but then {{User|Yoshi876}} changed it back to a redirect, saying that a six-year-old proposal was no longer valid. So what now? Why is she Honey Queen again if the community agreed she was Queen Bee? Should I make another TPP?<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 17:26, 13 April 2017 (EDT)
:Nothing. Changes were made, and then changed back. The naming policy is what we go by, and in ''Mario Kart 7'' she is officially called Honey Queen, so therefore that's what we go by. {{User|Yoshi876}}
::Searching the old MarioWiki:Naming pages, I noticed that the rule was there when the proposal was made. It should of been a no-brainer then. Searching the Revision history of Honey Queen, it wasn't moved to this page until May 8, 2015 (for reference, the it was changed to Queen Bee on Dec 9, 2011) by [[User:Magikrazy|Magikrazy]]. Just thought I should put this here. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:42, 13 April 2017 (EDT)
:::I believe the idea was that, in 2011 when ''MK7'' first released, it seemed as though "Honey Queen" would just be a one-time instance, and that "Queen Bee" was her original, rightful name. One can think of it like the case with [[Swoop]]; when "Swoop" was first used, it was probably just passed as temporary, but after more uses it has become the official name. Comparatively, 6 years since ''MK7'' was released, many now know her as "Honey Queen" since that is the name used in her most significant appearance in ''MK7''. At least, that's how I read it. [[User:MarioComix|MarioComix]] ([[User talk:MarioComix|talk]]) 20:55, 13 April 2017 (EDT)