Editing Talk:Green Star (Super Mario 3D World)

==Merge Green Star (''Super Mario 3D World'') with Green Star==
{{TPP}}

First, I do not even understand why they are separated. It would appear that the main reason is because of the use of the Green Star is different in the [[Super Mario Galaxy 2|two]] ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' compared to ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]''. The use of an object may vary from game to game (see [[Super Mushroom]], [[Ice Flower]], [[Super Leaf]], [[Golden Mushroom]], [[Mega Mushroom]] and [[Mini Mushroom]], which all have different effects of their used from games they appear in), but the object remains the same, the Green Star also share the same appearance in the three games they appear in. This facts, in my opinion, are good reasons for a merge. We must also take into consideration a fact, if we start to split any item by their functions, it will create a big inconsistency (if we create by example Super Leaf (Super Mario 3D Land) because they transform Mario into [[Tanooki Mario]] instead of [[Racoon Mario]] where do we will put the information of the apparitions of the Super Leaf as a trophy for Super Smash Bros. and for Mario Kart)?

'''Proposer:''' {{User|LudwigVon}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' May 16, 2016, 23:59 GMT

===Merge===
#{{User|LudwigVon}}
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} It's simpler.
#{{User|3D Player 2010}} per all, and also because the split of [[Super Mario 3D World]] from [[Super Mario Galaxy]] and [[Super Mario Galaxy 2]] is extremely arbitrary when the other 2 are merged with each other since [[Green Star]]s are still very different between the 2 Galaxy games from each other.

===Don't merge===
#{{User|Roy Koopa}} Because they have different functions. Sure, they look the same, but that really doesn't warrant a merge to me.
#{{User|Tails777}} Per the two previous proposals that failed to merge the two.

===Comments===
Just a heads up, but there are [[Talk:Green Star|two failed proposals]] on this matter. Take the reasons they are split into consideration. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:10, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
:Yes, I know they are two failed proposals on this matter, but I think the reasons for the split are not good enough. We have plenty of items that are merge together even if they don't have the same effect. So, why should this be the exception?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:18, 2 May 2016 (EDT) 

@Roy Koopa: The Super Mushrooms in Mario RPGs function differently than their platformer incarnations, yet they aren't split. Same deal with 1-Up Mushrooms. And the Fire Flowers. Would you advocate to split those as well? {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 16:17, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
:I would split them if it were my choice, yes. I think that if it functions differently albeit looks the same, they should be separate articles. {{User:Roy Koopa/sig}} 16:33, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
::So in your opinion, Ice Flower should be split like how we split [[Ice Mario]] and [[Ice Mario (Super Mario Galaxy)]]?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:27, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

This brings up a case: what do you think about [[Power Star]]s, [[Giant Star]], [[Star (Mario Party series)]], and [[Super Star]]s? What line should be drawn between "too different" and "not different enough"? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:43, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
:Let's just re-edit the whole wiki while we're at it. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 18:58, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
::Demolition the entire building and rebuilding it from scratch would be a gigantic waste of time. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:03, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
:::Power Star and Star (Mario Party series) ''can'' be merge together since they share a similar effect (collectible item). The article of the Star (Mario Party series) even implied they are also called Power Star. Giant Star seem to be a bigger variant (The star appear to be bigger than Mario). Super Star and Power Stars are "too different" to be merge in my opinion. It can also be inconsistent to merge all this. But, Green Star are so much similar with the same name, the same effect as collectible and the same appearance. Why we needs more to merge them together?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:18, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
::Sarcasm, Baby Luigi. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:32, 2 May 2016 (EDT)

I'm not voting just about yet because I'm torn between the two stances, as both have legit reasons to either leave it or merge it. Here's my points on both sides

;Support
*These two have the same appearance as each other.
*They are both fundamental collectables in a 3D platformer game, except one of them has a fancy finish animation and the other doesn't.
**Furthermore, those two 3D platformer games have fairly close ties to each other, as 3D Land is developed by the same galaxy team and has taken inspiration from Galaxy.
*Green stars are not consistent even in the Galaxy games. Green Stars in Galaxy 2 are activated by a special comet rather than being exclusive to trial galaxies.
*They share the same name, which is a strong point to be called for a merge.
*Merging these two makes piping less complicated, and therefore easier to navigate.

;Oppose
*A bunch of items in the Mario series share the same name and appearance but have different articles, like the Mario Party stars vs Mario platformer.
*Green Stars in Galaxy are flagpoles of Galaxy. In 3D World, they're like the star coins.
**3D World still has significant differences and plays by different rules than Galaxy.
*Regardless of the Galaxy game, they still act as level finishers.
*The piping isn't even that complex to begin with.

I'm honestly stumped, as either way can work for me. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:47, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 ==Merge Green Star (''Super Mario 3D World'') with Green Star==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|green|merge 17-11}}
 First, I do not even understand why they are separated. It would appear that the main reason is because of the use of the Green Star is different in the [[Super Mario Galaxy 2|two]] ''[[Super Mario Galaxy]]'' compared to ''[[Super Mario 3D World]]''. The use of an object may vary from game to game (see [[Super Mushroom]], [[Ice Flower]], [[Super Leaf]], [[Golden Mushroom]], [[Mega Mushroom]] and [[Mini Mushroom]], which all have different effects of their used from games they appear in), but the object remains the same, the Green Star also share the same appearance in the three games they appear in. This facts, in my opinion, are good reasons for a merge. We must also take into consideration a fact, if we start to split any item by their functions, it will create a big inconsistency (if we create by example Super Leaf (Super Mario 3D Land) because they transform Mario into [[Tanooki Mario]] instead of [[Racoon Mario]] where do we will put the information of the apparitions of the Super Leaf as a trophy for Super Smash Bros. and for Mario Kart)?
 '''Proposer:''' {{User|LudwigVon}}<br>
-'''Deadline:''' <s>May 16, 2016, 23:59 GMT</s> '''Extended:''' May 23, 2016, 23:59 GMT
+'''Deadline:''' May 16, 2016, 23:59 GMT
 ===Merge===
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 #{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} It's simpler.
 #{{User|3D Player 2010}} per all, and also because the split of [[Super Mario 3D World]] from [[Super Mario Galaxy]] and [[Super Mario Galaxy 2]] is extremely arbitrary when the other 2 are merged with each other since [[Green Star]]s are still very different between the 2 Galaxy games from each other.
-#{{User|SmokedChili}} Yeah, I'm (still) supporting this as well. Also, there are [http://iwataasks.nintendo.com/interviews/#/wiiu/super-mario-3d-world/0/2 two] [http://nintendoeverything.com/hayashida-talks-super-mario-3d-worlds-development-peach-those-concerned-with-multiplayer-focus-more/ interviews] where SM3DW producer Hayashida states that these Green Stars both replace [[Star Medal]]s and are a combination of Star Medals and SMG2 Green Stars.
-#{{User|Andymii}} I'm honestly stumped, but in keeping with consistency, I guess we should merge them for now. Whether topics with the same name but different uses should be separate or together is a different matter.
-#{{User|Megadardery}} They have the same name, the same look, both are optional collectible, both are in the same genre/series. It' more convenient to have one page.
-#{{User|Pseudo-dino}} Per all, particularly SmokedChili.
-#{{User|Baby Luigi}} I don't mind having either, but I like SmokedChili's link to the interview, as they were clearly designed with SMG2 green stars in mind, where they basically took that concept and just made it a collectable. That's what made me decide to vote for this side.
-#{{User|Aokage}} Per all.
-#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
-#{{User|Fawful's Minion}} It really doesn't make a difference as to what the Green Stars are. In the end they're basically the same thing.
-#{{User|Mister Wu}}Since ''Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker'', the SM3DW green stars effectively regained their original role - final goal of a level. Plus, the interviews point to them not being a different thing from the Green Stars of the two SMG games. So, unless a clear role-and-function-based reorganization of the wiki happens, which would also lead to the splitting of this page, I think they should just be merged.
-#{{User|Tucayo}} - This is a tough one, but until they appear in another game, I think the best is to merge, per all the above comments.
-#{{user|driftmaster130}} Per all.
-#{{user|YKMR3000}} Per all.
-#{{User|AfternoonLight}} Per all.
-#{{User|TabuuandPeach}} There's no difference between them.
 ===Don't merge===
 #{{User|Roy Koopa}} Because they have different functions. Sure, they look the same, but that really doesn't warrant a merge to me.
 #{{User|Tails777}} Per the two previous proposals that failed to merge the two.
-#{{User|Reboot}} Per Roy Koopa. If "looking the same" was enough, we'd be merging [[Power Star]] and [[Super Star]]. Given the number of times things have been redesigned, looks are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay down the list.
-#{{User|Time Turner}} Per all.
-#{{User|Alex95}} Per all.
-#{{User|BabyLuigi64}} Per all.
-#{{User|SuperYoshiBros}} Per all.
-#{{user|NSY}} Per all.
-#{{User|Chocolate Mario}} Per Roy Koopa.
-#{{User|A51 Trooper}} Per all.
-#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I'm only leaning toward split because merging them based on appearance and stretching it a bit for function as well would be dubious, and I've brought up [[Giant Star]] which as more similarities to [[Power Star]] than these Green Stars have to each other.
 ===Comments===
@@ Line 46: / Line 23: @@
 :I would split them if it were my choice, yes. I think that if it functions differently albeit looks the same, they should be separate articles. {{User:Roy Koopa/sig}} 16:33, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
 ::So in your opinion, Ice Flower should be split like how we split [[Ice Mario]] and [[Ice Mario (Super Mario Galaxy)]]?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:27, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
-:::Scratch what I said ''completely'', the Mario RPG consumables are [[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/44#Split_the_Mario_.26_Luigi_and_Super_Mario_RPG_consumables_into_separate_articles|supposed to be split]]. <sub>Going through changing the proposal header outcomes makes me remember proposals yaaaay</sub> {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:40, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
 This brings up a case: what do you think about [[Power Star]]s, [[Giant Star]], [[Star (Mario Party series)]], and [[Super Star]]s? What line should be drawn between "too different" and "not different enough"? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:43, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
@@ Line 53: / Line 29: @@
 :::Power Star and Star (Mario Party series) ''can'' be merge together since they share a similar effect (collectible item). The article of the Star (Mario Party series) even implied they are also called Power Star. Giant Star seem to be a bigger variant (The star appear to be bigger than Mario). Super Star and Power Stars are "too different" to be merge in my opinion. It can also be inconsistent to merge all this. But, Green Star are so much similar with the same name, the same effect as collectible and the same appearance. Why we needs more to merge them together?--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  19:18, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
 ::Sarcasm, Baby Luigi. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 19:32, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
-::I personally think it should be merged because in the end they're the same thing. {{User:Fawful's Minion/sig}} 18:06, 19 May 2016 (EDT)
 I'm not voting just about yet because I'm torn between the two stances, as both have legit reasons to either leave it or merge it. Here's my points on both sides
 ;Support
-*These two have the same appearance and name as each other, a strong point for merging.
+*These two have the same appearance as each other.
 *They are both fundamental collectables in a 3D platformer game, except one of them has a fancy finish animation and the other doesn't.
 **Furthermore, those two 3D platformer games have fairly close ties to each other, as 3D Land is developed by the same galaxy team and has taken inspiration from Galaxy.
 *Green stars are not consistent even in the Galaxy games. Green Stars in Galaxy 2 are activated by a special comet rather than being exclusive to trial galaxies.
+*They share the same name, which is a strong point to be called for a merge.
 *Merging these two makes piping less complicated, and therefore easier to navigate.
@@ Line 72: / Line 48: @@
 I'm honestly stumped, as either way can work for me. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 19:47, 2 May 2016 (EDT)
-If this proposal fails, I want it to be considered that the Galaxy 1 and Galaxy 2 variants be split themselves instead, and the standard {{fake link|Green Star}} article be made into a summary disambiguation page. {{User:3D Player 2010/sig}} 20:46, 12 May 2016 (EDT)
-:Wait why? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 12:00, 13 May 2016 (EDT)