Editing Talk:Grab Block

==Merge ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' Ice Block with ''Super Mario World'' Grab Block (proposal)==

See "rebooted" section for details. In essence, the White Block from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is identical in every way with the Grab Block from ''Super Mario World'', with both being suggested as icy blocks that seemingly melt in Mario's hands and lacking the slippery platform traction of ordinary Ice Blocks, with which they're distinguished. As such, I think it would be a mistake to keep the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' version merged with the Ice Block article when the ''Super Mario World'' version is much more appropriate. Two main options are presented in this proposal. The first will simply merge White Block with Grab Block, which is a more self-explanatory name. The second will still merge, but make White Block the current name, which would be closer to policy due to being the most recent in-game name as of ''Super Mario Advance 4''. A third option merges Grab Block with the Ice Block article, although I'm not sure I particularly recommend this since that article could probably stand to have a thing or two split already. A fourth option fully splits White Block as its own article. In any case, an <nowiki>{{about}}</nowiki> will be added to note the "White Block" Semisolid Platform.

==Merge White Block with Grab Block==

As WilliamFrog points out above, while there is technically no proof that the [[White Block]] and Grab Block are the same, they behave almost identically and differences in appearance can be chalked up to the standard blocks that they share graphics with in both games being different, would be unintuitive to the average wiki reader, and results in articles that largely contain the same information. The two blocks also appeared in back-to-back games in the main Mario series that were developed by many of the same individuals, so it is certainly no coincidence. Merging the two pages would almost certainly result in a more streamlined wiki experience for editors and readers alike, and will not result in the loss of any ease of understanding or important information.

#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per all in this and the previous proposal.

#{{User|Koopa con Carne}} This is slip-sliding into a notion I can't agree with. ''Super Mario World'' starting development with a plurality of assets and concepts from ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' is the only "evidence" of these two types of blocks being one and the same, and that does not override the age-old principle that "conceptually identical =/= identical overall". There are a significant number of subjects across the franchise that are the exact same thing on a functional level, some even appearing together in the same game ([[Aqua Man]]/[[Golem]], [[Sour Dodo]]/[[Cheesy Chester]] etc.), yet are kept split for a good number of reasons.

====Comments====

::::::::::"The same thing" is not an arbitrary distinction, it's what splits and merges are based on. Things that are the same should share a page, things that are different should be on different pages, things where we're not sure should default to being on different pages to avoid speculation. You keep bringing up naming inconsistencies to suggest we should default to merging them, but that's absolutely the wrong approach in my opinion - it's far more speculative and assumptive than splitting them is. "I'd argue in this case it's based on whether the developers consider them to be distinct objects" - and so would I, that's what I mean when I say "different" and "the same". In this sense, those different Hard Blocks are the same thing, as Mario Maker tells us (and also in the context of Mario it's not too outlandish for blocks of different materials between games to be the same blocks, suspension of disbelief and all that), while there's nothing telling us that the White Block and Grab Block are the same thing beyond speculation. That is the reason they should be split, and it is what sets this situation apart from Hard Blocks and the other examples. The problem with how you keep saying "there's other merged things that are more different" is that you keep ignoring how there is often still official proof of those things being the same, which doesn't exist here. The reason I'm so opposed to this isn't really because I think these blocks are wildly dissimilar to each other - if there was a more direct official confirmation that they're the same (a Mario Maker game, a guidebook, anything), I'd probably support this, but there's not, and the wiki's established precedent is to merge only if we know they're the same, not because they're similar (see the links in my earlier comments). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 12:35, July 17, 2023 (EDT)

:::::::::::If you agree that it's based on whether the developers consider them the same object, then all the evidence points to them doing so (graphic sources, shared development histories, keeping the flashing between games, big boo, etc). The issue is that the evidence also points to the writers of the materials (who I don't believe are the same people) not being properly informed on the nature of an under-the-radar object like this. Poor communication with the developers is the sort of thing that would lead to the block in SMB3 being confused with itself in a single image for example, not to mention the inconsistent naming, and the description of dubious icy properties and inaccurate colors not exhibited in game. It is not hard to see how mistaking the appearance between games could come from the very same cause as the other strange phenomena regarding supporting material portrayals. The supporting material for this seems to come from a mere impression by the writers and not the devs themselves, in which case we're playing the telephone game by entirely relying on it for our information. We can paint a clearer picture by taking an in-depth look at the games and their development ourselves, as this is what the developers undoubtedly had the biggest hand in, and having done so this strongly points towards them being the same object. [[User:WilliamFrog|WilliamFrog]] ([[User talk:WilliamFrog|talk]]) 06:32, July 21, 2023 (EDT)

I am abstaining here, but I feel [[Blue Coin]] should be brought up, as it originally used an off-white cyan color before becoming a deeper blue down the line - exactly like the grabbable blocks (especially when one considers the unused blue coin in SMW, meaning both objects share a palette across both games). Main issue I have, though, is it doesn't factor in the ice blocks in NSMBW in any way despite the SMB3 blocks sometimes being described as ice blocks themselves. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:44, July 13, 2023 (EDT)

:I think the NSMBW ice blocks would at least deserve a mention on the merged article, as they currently do on both the white block and grab block articles. [[User:WilliamFrog|WilliamFrog]] ([[User talk:WilliamFrog|talk]]) 20:12, July 13, 2023 (EDT)