Editing Talk:Giant Stu

==Real Name==

Anyone have an official name for this Stu? I'm sure its official name has to do with it doing something, such as strollin' in [[Strollin' Stu]]. --[[User:Pseudo-dino|Fake dino rules.]]
:... I alway thought those were simply normal stues' and that the one stacked on top of it are just really small. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 19:19, 7 March 2008 (EST)
::Anyone agree? --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 14:02, 11 October 2008 (EDT)

Here's a question. Is the Giant Stu ever found by itself without the Strollin' Stus on its head? If not then I think it should just be called the Stackin' Stu.
[[User:WolfenSage|WolfenSage]] ([[User talk:WolfenSage|talk]]) 01:05, 6 April 2016 (EDT)

== Merge with [[Stackin' Stu]] ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|failed|1-5}}
The Giant Stu and Stackin' Stu appear to be one and the same. They both only appear in [[Pinna Park]] as one enemy group; they aren't seen without one another. I'm not sure if Stackin' Stu's name is official (there's no ref on that page and I can't find one myself), but the Giant Stu's name isn't. Makes sense to me that the Giant Stu page should be merged with the Stackin' Stu one. Should Giant Stu be merged, it's page should be deleted due to an unofficial name.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Alex95}}<br>
'''Deadline''': Wednesday, December 21st, 2016, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Alex95}} - Look up a bit.
===Oppose===
#{{user|Wildgoosespeeder}} The [[Strollin' Stu]]s can be separated and killed off where only [[Giant Stu]] remains. That would be like merging [[Red Koopa Troopa]] with [[Red Koopa Paratroopa]]. No change.
#{{user|LudwigVon}} - This would be like merging [[Goomba Tower]] with [[Goomba]] or merging the giant version of an enemy with its standard form and I'm against that.
#{{user|Quizmelon}} Per all.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per all.
#{{user|Green Mario}} Per all.

===Comments===
As a side note, I think [[Parentin' Stu]] might be a better name for this variation of [[Strollin' Stu]]. It also matches better the naming scheme motif. It also makes more sense as well because if you kill the Giant Stu before the [[Strollin' Stu]]s when they are knocked off, they all die. Also [[Strollin' Stu]]s piggy-back the Giant Stu, something that is somewhat common for a mother's young to do in general. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:02, 6 December 2016 (EST)
:That could work as well. I don't see a {{tem|conjecture}} on the Stackin' Stu page, though, so is its name official or no? {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:06, 6 December 2016 (EST)
::I mean [[Giant Stu]] <nowiki>--></nowiki> [[Parentin' Stu]]. Nothing to do with [[Stackin' Stu]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:09, 6 December 2016 (EST)
:::...The point I'm trying to make, though, is both types of enemies seem to be the same; one isn't seen without the other. Ergo a merge. Simply renaming Giant Stu would defeat the point of this. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 23:12, 6 December 2016 (EST)
@Wildgoosespeeder: The two Koopas, while of the same "breed", are completely different and are classified as such. They have different attributes, therefore they have their own page. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 00:44, 7 December 2016 (EST)

@LudwigVon: Yes, the Goomba Tower is simply a stack of Goombas, but a regular Goomba can be found ''everywhere'', separate from the Goomba Tower. Both of which have, albeit slightly, different properties from each other. The Giant and Stackin' Stus here are essentially one enemy, found only in one place and are grouped together. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 00:44, 7 December 2016 (EST)

What's wrong with the Goomba Tower analogy is that they don't have an enemy unique to Goomba Tower. What would be your thoughts if the Goomba Tower had a, say, large Rainbow Goomba at the bottom? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 13:58, 8 December 2016 (EST)
:If that "Rainbow Goomba" was only seen as part of the Goomba Stack, I'd classify it as part of that. If it is seen separate from the Goomba Stack, then I would classify it as a different enemy. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 14:03, 8 December 2016 (EST)

I'm still iffy on this. There isn't anything to lose category-wise if we merge, but this still resembles an enemy, though without an official name apparently. I'm a bit inclined toward merge, but its appearance being different from the rest of the Stacked Stus is a thing. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 19:40, 11 December 2016 (EST)

== Name ==
Does the [[Super Mario Encyclopedia]] has a name for it? Like Big Kurin, Kyodai Kurin, Deka Kurin or something like that? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:41, 2 December 2018 (EST)
:No, although it describes and pictures the tower type right in the Strollin' Stu entry, which shows the giant holding the stack. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:32, 2 December 2018 (EST)
::You mean that it makes no mention of it? The internal filename is our only lead. Internal filenames can be used for things that are unnamed. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 08:35, 2 December 2018 (EST)
:::Thing about Stus is that if you pay close attention, there are actually about 4 or 5 size variations at different points in the game, and when alone, they always have the same behavior. Because it's the same coded object with a different size parameter. N64 and GCN games ''loved'' to do that. I could rattle off several instances if asked. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:12, 2 December 2018 (EST)
::::There's actually a part of the Nintendo Official Guidebook of ''Super Mario Sunshine'' that mentions them, it's the 11th Blue Coin of Pinna Park, on page 154:<br/>
::::<br/>
::::<span class=explain title="つ">積</span>み<span class=explain title="かさ">重</span>なっているクリンへノーマルノズルで<span class=explain title="ほうすい">放水</span>。<span class=explain title="うえ">上</span>から<span class=explain title="じゅんばん">順番</span>に<span class=explain title="う">打</span>ち<span class=explain title="お">落</span>としたあと、<span class=explain title="おお">大</span>きなクリンをふみつける。<br/>
::::<br/>
::::Since they used 「大きな」 written in Hiragana rather than Katakana, it doesn't look like they have a separate name from Strollin' Stus, considering how the Encyclopedia keeps them together and how the enemy lists of the Nintendo Official Guidebook doesn't have a separate entry for them either, I wonder if we should start reconsidering the merge.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:32, 3 December 2018 (EST)
:::::Well, both you and I have since brought up points that weren't addressed (and in your case, were partially unavailable) then, so it'd be within the rules to do so. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:41, 3 December 2018 (EST)
::::::After all, the larger Strollin' Stus never appear without the smaller ones stacked on top. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 23:48, 3 December 2018 (EST)
:::::::Yeah they do. At Delfino Airstrip intermixed with subtly smaller ones. I'm unsure if they're ''as'' big as the one in Pinna Park, but like I said before, they can and did assign all sorts of size parameters to the exact same model, making different articles for different sizes ultimately pointless. I recall RareWare did this quite a bit with 1-hit generic enemies in their N64 games, such as the Gnawties in DK64 and the Grublins and Rippers in ''Banjo-Kazooie''. GCN games did it to quite a bit, as seen with this situation, as well as ''Kirby Air Ride''. Anyways, this techinically belongs more on the regular Strollin' Stu article, since it's just a size difference for an inconsistently-sized species anyways. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:11, 4 December 2018 (EST)
::::::::It should be noted that 「大きな」 is used for the name of at least one other enemy in ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'' (Big Fire Bar), and some of the other big enemies like Big Deep Cheep in ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' and Big Cheep Cheep in ''New Super Mario Bros. U'' are treated as just scaled-up versions of the normal enemy in those games. Though, if the size is inconsistent on top of that, I'd support a proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 04:10, 4 December 2018 (EST)
::::::::::I'd support a proposal if the Strollin' Stu's size is inconsistent. (i think Giant Strollin' Stu would have been a better conjecture, since the normal enemy isn't just named Stu, it's called Strollin' Stu). --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:12, 10 January 2019 (EST)
These are the closest mentions I can find in the four official guides.

Nintendo Power, on page 120 regarding the location of the 11th Blue Coin: "''Defeat the enemy.''"

Prima Games, second set of notes accompanying picture of the stack under Strollin' Stu's description on page 17: "''A large Strollin' Stu balancing five smaller brethren on his head. These are rare and don't cause much harm, aside from a charging headbutt for one damage. Dispatch them by spraying the smaller beasts and leaping on them, then Squirting and Pounding the larger foe, usually for a Blue Coin.''" Then, on page 109 regarding Blue Coin #7: "''At the foot of the shallow brick ramp leading behind the big wheel, is a Strollin' Stu. Stand on the ramp to avoid its hits.''" "''Blast this critter with your Squirt Nozzle, and one by one the mini Strollin' Stus fall off, leaving the large one. Continue to spray it, and it bursts into a Blue Coin.''" Finally, on page 186 regarding the 97th Blue Coin: "''Inside Strollin' Stu on ground by shallow brick ramp to back of Ferris wheel.''" It is also not named separately from Strollin' Stu among the list of creatures encountered in Pinna Park on page 96.

BradyGames, on page 6 regarding Dango: "''Squirt the Hamkuri at the top of the stack and work your way down until all are removed. Squirt largest and jump on its belly to destroy them all at once.''" Then, on page 154 regarding the 5th Blue Coin in Pinna Park: "''Defeat the Dango in the small alcove between the pool and fountain.''"

Versus Books, on page 63 regarding Blue Coin 10: "''Defeat the Dango by spraying all the little Goombas, then smash the big one.''"

Note that Hamkuri is what Strollin' Stus are called in the latter two and Goomba is what Stus are generally referred to by Versus, described as "Goomba-esque" on page 32. In any case, the Strollin' Stu sizes are not distinguished from the stack as an enemy. I'd support another proposal. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 06:33, April 30, 2019 (EDT)
:Why would it require another proposal, if there is a major agreement ''now''? I kinda feel the above proposal was misunderstood, as the opposers may have thought it was to merge with Strollin' Stu rather than Dango. <s>What a weird name</s> --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 02:24, May 7, 2019 (EDT)
::A proposal requires another proposal to overturn it (like what happened to Nokottasu not too long ago). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:14, May 11, 2019 (EDT)

== Merge this page with <s>Stackin' Stu</s> Dango or Strollin' Stu ==
{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|1-11-0|merge with Strollin' Stu}}
I feel the above proposal was misunderstood. The proposal was misinterpreted as it being merged with [[Strollin' Stu]]. While they are indeed bigger than the normal Strollin' Stus, the Strollin' Stus can have multiple sizes, and this giant Strollin' Stu is never seem appart from its stack. Unlike any other big enemies, they aren't considered to be a separate entity.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|FanOfYoshi}}

'''Deadline:''' July, 20, 2019, 23:59 GMT
===Merge to Dango===
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per proposal
<s>#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per proposal and above name section.</s>
===Merge to Strollin' Stu===
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Second option, per comments below.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per comments below.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} As mentioned below.
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.
#{{User|Mister Wu}} Considering how the Giant Stus are seen outside of Dangos as well and considering how Strollin' Stus of different sizes are definitely a thing, I think it makes sense to just merge them with Strollin' Stus
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} Per all.
#{{User|Doomhiker}} Per all.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per all and comments.
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Per my comments.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
#{{User|bwburke94}} Per all.
<s>#{{User|HEROMARIO}} Per the above</s>

===Oppose===
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} These enemies also appear in Delfino Airstrip without the stack. Merging them would be counterproductive and pointless.
<s>#{{User|LudwigVon}} There's actually a Strollin' Stu that seems to be the size of the Giant Stu found in Delfino Airstrip (without Dango stack) according to Doc's comment below. So no, I don't think Giant Stu should be merge with Dango. Furthermore, with the size inconsistency of Strollin' Stu reported by Doc, I think it might be a better idea for the moment to merge Giant Stu with Strollin' Stu.</s><br>
<s>#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} As mentioned here and in the comments, merging with Strollin' Stu would make more sense.</s>

===Comments===
@FanOfYoshi: "''this giant Strollin' Stu is never seem appart from its stack.''"; On this page, we can currently read this: ''One appears in [[Pinna Park]], while '''multiple others appear at [[Delfino Airstrip]] after the flood''', alongside regular Strollin' Stus. They act exactly like normal Strollin' Stus. '''The one in Pinna Park is at the bottom of a [[Dango]].''''' The page implies that Giant Stus can be seen at Delfino Airstrip without Dango stacks, only the one from Pinna Park has it. So, if that's the case, Giant Stus can be seen without Dango. In that case, I'm against this merge. - {{User:LudwigVon/sig}}
:Actually, like Doc von Schmeltwick said above, it had 4 or 5 inconsistent size for the one that is a normal Strollin' Stu. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:56, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
::So there is a change they might not be the same as the ones that are on the stack. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 10:56, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
:::I would support this if it retained the name Giant Stu instead of using Dango - rather explaining how if there are multiple Strolling Stus on a Giant Stu, it is referred to as a Dango. [[User:Trig Jegman|Trig]] - 13:30, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
::::What? Dango is sourced. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:15, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

OK, to recap:<br>Strollin' Stus first appear at a medium size in the first mission of Bianco Hills, with a little goop spatter. All later ones lack this spatter.<br>They later appear in Pinna Park as the Dango, where a larger-than-previous one carries several smaller-than-previous ones.<br>They later appear in a medium size, which itself may be different, in "secret" areas, specifically the cannon and village underside ones.<br>Then, they, along with several other variants, appear in the King Boo battle, at about the "secret" level size, but possibly smaller.<br>Finally, they appear in Delfino Airstrip in two different sizes. One of them seems to be the size of the "larger" one from before, and the other the size found in the secret areas.<br>This doesn't go into the sizes of their uncommon variations. Anyways, I feel this should be merged with ''Strollin{{'}}'' Stu, as minor size differences without an official name are inconsequential in a 3D game that can upscale its models exponentially easier than make a new enemy. Note that ''Yoshi's Story'' has three different sizes of [[Sea Cactus]] far more noticeably than this. Heck, [[Swoopin' Stu]]s have many many size variations to varying degrees of noticeability, and they act no more different from normal than this IMO. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:52, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
:Well, if there's actually an inconsistency with the size of Strollin' Stu, then yeah, it would made more sense to merge Giant Stu with Strollin' Stu. - {{User:LudwigVon/sig}}
::Yeah, I'd support merging this with Strollin' Stu. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 19:28, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
:::I'd support merging this with Strollin' Stu as well. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 20:57, July 6, 2019 (EDT)
::::Well, [https://youtu.be/T1FLjlFIPSU?t=197 here] you can see the Strollin' Stus of Delfino Airstrip and they indeed have different sizes despite them never forming a Dango.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 21:50, July 6, 2019 (EDT)

I think it would make sense to reword the proposal and add a third option to merge Giant Stu with Strollin' Stu, so we don't need to make a third proposal for an outcome that as of now has a few supporters.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:41, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
::I'd agree to merge with Strollin' Stu. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:35, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
:::Thanks for updating the proposal.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:49, July 7, 2019 (EDT)

Doc, I don't recall them appearing anywhere else, but I could probably be wrong. I certainly don't remember them appearing at the Airstrip or the Cannon secret. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:50, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
:You should look at Mister Wu's message. Strollin' Stu are found in multiple sizes in Delfino Airstrip, or look [https://youtu.be/T1FLjlFIPSU?t=197 here]. - {{User:LudwigVon/sig}}
::In the Airstrip they appear as Ludwig said, making them appear outside of Dango, making them literally just Stus that are larger, which does not mean anything due to how much Stus sizes vary.{{User:Doomhiker/sig}}
:::Shoot, I missed that message ^^; Will look over things again when I get home later and have time. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:04, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
::::Alright, I'm convinced. btw, you can just remove your votes if no one's pering yours (everyone in opposed). {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:27, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
:::::Normal Strollin' Stus appear in the cannon secret, where they pop out of pictures of them on a wall at the end of the long green platform iirc. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:12, July 7, 2019 (EDT)
::::::Are other enemies multi-sized? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:48, July 8, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::Like I already said, Swoopin' Stu comes in numerous sizes, often right next to each other. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:32, July 8, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::Does the stack has a separate model from the parent species? And is the one from the stack a part of the model? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:38, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::Stacked Strollin' Stus use the same base model as Strollin' Stu, much like Goomba Towers and similar enemies in other games. Oddly enough, despite the guides borrowing liberally from the game's filenames, I see no references to "Dango" in the <tt>hamukurianm</tt> animation folder or a reason why <tt>sambo</tt> would be called "Dango Flower" as seen in the BradyGames guide. My only guess is that someone associated the word "dango" with "segments" for some reason. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:20, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::I assumed it came from the word "dangle," like what the dudes not on bottom are doing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:52, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::::Well, {{file link|SMWGPB4 Larry Dangos.png|these are the Dangos they are likely referencing}}.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 16:14, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::::That seems to fit the visual of Strollin' Stus and Pokey as round objects stacked together, actually. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 16:30, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::::::Oh, that's what the kebabcicles are actually called? Huh. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:50, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::::::Not sure about kebab since they are a Japanese food, still it's curious that they likely used those to refer to the stacked enemies, it makes me wonder if it was an idea of the developers who then told BradyGames or if it was just a smarter version of the ''moles'', ''bats'', ''turtles'' names the translators use when they don't have any English name to work with.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 20:46, July 9, 2019 (EDT)
:::::::::::::::Dumpling might be the term you're looking for. That's what ''Mother 3'' fan translation used of a similar looking food. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 09:03, July 14, 2019 (EDT)
::::::::::::::::Only while multiple are on a stick... [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:43, July 14, 2019 (EDT)