Editing Talk:Garf

Is there any evidence of Garf being the brother of Gus, or is that purely speculation? -- {{User|Son of Suns}}
:In the beginning, when Garf and Gus get beaten up by the Piantas, Gus says "Stay down, Bro!". {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 23:34, 2 January 2009 (EST)
::Well, that can be misleading. When guys are really good friends, they sometimes call eachother "bro". {{User:ToadetteAnime4evur/sig}}
:::I'll see if I can find more proof. I know Goombella mentioned something like "I think they're brothers" in a tattle for Garf. If I can't find any solid proof in my '''6''' game guides, then I suppose it could be deemed as speculation. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 23:46, 2 January 2009 (EST)

:At the very least we can say they '''may''' be brothers in articles, based on the quote (and based on the fact they fought another pair of brothers). -- {{User|Son of Suns}}

I found this quote from "Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door professional gaming guide". It's got around 200 pages, containing just about everything in the game. Here's what it says:

<blockquote>"Gus is an enemy found in Rogueport, and the only one at that. [...] After defeating him in battle, he'll head back to Ishnail's hideout with '''his brother, Garf'''. This is the second time the pair are seen together, the other time being in the very beginning of the game when they are pummeled by Pianta Syndicate brothers, Tony and Vinny. [...]"</blockquote>

I dunno if that helps or not. I got this guide a few years ago; my dad's boss gave it to me (along with several other random game guides) when he saw I had a GameCube. It has the Nintendo seal on the bottom right corner of the cover, so I'm assuming it's official. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 00:10, 3 January 2009 (EST)
:Well, if it has the seal, then it's official. Good enough for me. {{User:ToadetteAnime4evur/sig}}

:Cool.  Now we can say they '''are''' brothers. -- {{User|Son of Suns}}

==Are Gus and Garf actually brothers?==
{{talk}}
This article, as well as [[Gus]]'s, claims that Gus and Garf are brothers. However, the only mention of their relationship in the game is Goombella's tattle on Garf: "I'm pretty sure he's related to Gus." So, the tattle does not explicitly state that the two are brothers. However, I think I know where this claim of them being brothers comes from: the cutscene of the Piantas beating up the Craws when Mario and Goombella meet. In it, one of the Craws yells, "Stay down, Bro!" Now, "bro" isn't always used for a literal brother, but if we already know the two characters are related... Oh wait. We don't even know for sure that those two Craws getting beat up are Gus and Garf. For that matter, we don't know if it's Tony and Vinny beating them up, either. I do believe they are, since the only other normal Craw and Pianta we know of are Goose (who runs the Trouble Center) and Rocko (who guards the Pianta Parlor) - why would they be over in the plaza fighting if they have other responsibilities? Still, I'm not sure if we should state this as fact on the wiki (I do think it's worth pointing out, but we'd need to add words like "probably"). 

With all of that said, what should we do about the Gus and Garf being brothers claim? Should we just replace mentions of "brother" with "relative" since we can't be fully sure? Or do you guys think the evidence in the game (that being, 1. Gus and Garf being the ones beat up in the cutscene and 2. the usage of "Bro" in the cutscene) is strong enough to make the assumption? I'm personally leaning towards going with "relative" and maybe mentioning the possibility of them being brothers based on the cutscene line later in the article (or in the Notes section). [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 21:10, February 25, 2025 (EST)

EDIT: There's also the convo above... Thoughts? [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 21:15, February 25, 2025 (EST)
:<s>Maybe they're sworn brothers according to the oath they made under the peach tree</s> I'd like more evidence that the two craws getting beaten up are Gus and Garf in particular. MarioWiki makes a really confident statement they are. Either way the "bro!" and the script also saying they're related makes me believe they are indeed brothers. It's just a Paper Mario script, after all. The writing from these games tend to be really straightforward about things. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:26, February 25, 2025 (EST)
::I'd like to see if someone can track down the guide mentioned above that apparently confirms it. If it's not the Nintendo Power guide, I'm not sure what else it would be. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 21:33, February 25, 2025 (EST)
:::Update: Doesn't seem to come from Nintendo Power. Gus and Garf are only mentioned in the Tattle Log and trouble sections of the book and the quote isn't in either of those sections - no mention of them at all in the section describing Rogueport. Frankly, I'm going to call foul - the quote already seems like an oddly specific confirmation of what was on the wiki at the time and is alleged to have come from one of ''six'' guides for TTYD (even half of those being official feels like it's stretching it). The same user who provided the quote also deliberately put misinformation about TTYD beta elements on the wiki around the time, which doesn't give me much confidence.
:::So that pretty much puts us back to square one of how literally we want to interpret the use of "Bro" here, and if we want to assume it's those characters or not. Just because those Craws/Piantas are the only ones you can interact with in the game it doesn't necessarily mean they're meant to be the same characters, after all. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 22:08, February 25, 2025 (EST)
::We could also try checking the Japanese maybe. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:03, February 25, 2025 (EST)
:::Did a quick check on DeepL of Garf's tattle: 
:::"Garth, one of our members, says he and Garth have a relationship of mutual trust… and although he looks like he's insecure ... he's quite a friendly guy... and people aren't always what they appear to be."
:::Obviously can't be sure this is 100% accurate, but this could mean they aren't meant to be related whatsoever, and that was an English localization thing… [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:16, February 25, 2025 (EST)
::::As for "Stay down, Bro!" it's 「 アニキーっ! 」 in Japanese… I can't find a meaning for this. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 22:22, February 25, 2025 (EST)
:::::Looking at Garf's tattle in Japanese myself, it actually says しんせきどうし (親戚同士). しんせき/親戚 usually means relative, either by blood or marriage. As for アニキ, it literally means "(big) bro" but often simply refers to one's superior especially in a gang context, in which case "boss" might be a better translation. So I'm gonna agree that we should simply go with "relatives" and only mention brothers as a possibility at most. [[User:PaperSplash|PaperSplash]] ([[User talk:PaperSplash|talk]]) 15:45, February 26, 2025 (EST)