Editing Talk:Game Over

How... redundant. [[User:HyperToad|<font color=blue>Hyper</font color>]][[User Talk:HyperToad|<font color=navy>Toad</font color>]][[Special:EditCount?target=HyperToad&doeditcount=Show+count|<font color=purple>@{{PAGENAME}}</font color>]]
:If you're talking about the images, I agree. We don't need 3 pictures of a screen saying "Game Over", especially when one is from an hacked game. --[[User:Blitzwing|Blitzwing]] 12:22, 9 May 2008 (EDT)
::We should keep the World 9 one, though, as it was a special one. {{User:Toadette 4evur/sig}}

i was lead here from my own page! --[[User:Olivia0121|Olivia0121]] 12:02, 22 September 2009 (EDT)

Ya know, not all Game Over music is Mocking. If you've played a smash bros. game you probalby know how scary the game over is (Well maybe only for me, but still I wet myself when I game over in Smash Bros.); Thanks for your Patience. [[User:Mecha-Boss Unit]]
:I agree. While some of the games related to the Mario series may have had a Game Over screen using music in a "mocking" tone, I've never really received it as such. It mostly just felt "too bad", though it could really go either way. [[User:Redstar|Redstar]] 21:40, 7 December 2009 (EST)
=="List of characters who get a game over?" Oo==
Can't only the player possibly get a Game Over in a game? Isn't this just a list of bosses that can be defeated, and isn't it rather obvious most of them can? I'm confused by this article.--[[User:Vellidragon|vellidragon]] 21:26, 29 December 2009 (EST)

Well, like article says, a game over seems to be the equivelent of death. It is listing the different bosses who seemed to have survived many different "game overs". {{User:Superboo922/sig}}

But the article also says that bosses reappear in another game though they are defeated (seemingly killed) in the previous game(s). [[Special:Contributions/125.162.251.172|125.162.251.172]]

==Whuh?==
"Aside from the DinoRiders in the Super Mario World episode Born to Ride, Rockman falled into a lava pit and dies, while Duke and Lulu crashed into a wall of blocks and die before the song "Time to Get Wild" ends. The DinoRiders killed in the episode, yet returned in the end of the episode. King Koopa, Big Mouth and Kootie Pie Koopa killed in Send in the Clown, King Koopa (That his Koopa Clown Car became sad called Bowser) falled in the castle by Mario, Kootie Pie crounched and Big Mouth does a Tee-Tering, jet killed by Mario. "

Will somebody please tell me what this is supposed to mean and why it's on the page? It's littered with the worst forms of bad grammar, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the page. Unless someone can justify it's existence on [[Game Over]], it should be removed due to it not being on-topic with the rest of the page. I would also like to ask that you do NOT delete this, because I am legitimately asking why this is on the page. This is a perfectly fine thing to ask on a talk page, despite what others tell me.-1337doom
:You have a point. I am not sure what that has to do with game overs. Plus, yes, it has VERY bad grammar. Why was that even put there in the first place? {{User:Mariomario64/Sig}} 16:07, 21 March 2011 (EDT)

==?==
"In Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy and Super Mario Galaxy 2, the "Too Bad!" changes into a red Game Over sign."

Will somebody please tell me what this is supposed to mean and why it's on the page? It's littered with the worst forms of bad grammar, and doesn't seem to have anything to do with the page. Unless someone can justify it's existence on [[Game Over]], it should be removed due to it not being on-topic with the rest of the page. I would also like to ask that you do NOT delete this, because I am legitimately asking why this is on the page. This is a perfectly fine thing to ask on a talk page, despite what others tell me.-1337doom
:You have a point. I am not sure what that has to do with game overs. Plus, yes, it has VERY bad grammar. Why was that even put there in the first place? {{User:PaalishMario/Sig}} 23:49, 6 September 2011 (EDT)

== Add many more pictures! ==

Be quick to add Game Over pictures from more games and the Super Mario anime film and add them to other galleries!
--[[User:SmartScreenTV|Smart &#91;&#91;File:Mama_Fire_Plant.jpg&#124;50px&#93;&#93; &#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;NOW!&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;&#39;]] 21:37, 11 April 2012 (EDT)


I'm on it! --[[User:Scottsc|Scottsc]] ([[User talk:Scottsc|talk]]) 16:24, 4 December 2014 (EST)
==Redirect==
Shouldn't death redirect here?[[User:Rpg gamer|RPG Gamer. I HAVE RPG!!]] ([[User talk:Rpg gamer|talk]]) 11:57, 24 March 2013 (EDT)
:I think it's a pretty unnecessary redirect. {{User:LeftyGreenMario/sig}} 18:38, 24 March 2013 (EDT)


==Good Night...==
Should we add the "Good Night" from both Luigi's Mansion games in there, i mean it only appears in 2 of the many games made
{{unsigned|Robecuba}}

:The original Luigi's Mansion "Good Night" is there, so why isn't there a Luigi's Mansion 2: Dark Moon "Good Night" or "GAME OVER"?

:{{User:MeerkatMario/sig}}

I'm On It! --[[User:Scottsc|Scottsc]] ([[User talk:Scottsc|talk]]) 16:24, 4 December 2014 (EST)

== SMS, SMG, SMG2, WWDIY, SPM and Dream Team ==

How about adding the Game Overs from Super Mario Sunshine, Mario Galaxy, Mario Galaxy 2, WarioWare D.I.Y., Super Paper Mario and even Mario and Luigi: Dream Team? :)
- Oussama

:"As referenced throughout Super Paper Mario, a Game Over for Mario series characters is their equivalent of death, as extra lives make mere "death" a mild hiccup." That means i can't think if an game over screen for Super Paper Mario would be added. [[Special:Contributions/125.162.251.172|125.162.251.172]]

== What happened? ==

hi. I playedsuper mario bros. U over to the fourth level, and died (game over). The game  said "All toad houses are back",  but it only allowed me level 1!!! I saved muitiply times, two times every level complete. Why did this happen. [[User:Wintermelon43|Wintermelon43]] ([[User talk:Wintermelon43|talk]]) 15:00, 2 February 2014 (EST)

:I just don't know what happened to you and your game. Sorry but I can't help you because of that. :( {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 18:44, 20 September 2014 (EDT)

In the game there are Quick Saves and no normal saves. Quick Saves are only usable once. {{unsigned|173.78.108.133}}

== Game Overs from other media ==

We should probably add Game Overs from other ''Mario'' media onto the gallery, including ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyushutsu Dai Sakusen!]]'' and the ''[[Nintendo Adventure Books]]''. Good idea, right? {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 13:56, 20 September 2014 (EDT)
:I think that would sort of be breaking the [[fourth wall]] more than an actual game over. {{User:Mario/sig}} 14:41, 20 September 2014 (EDT)
::Uh...maybe. Even though it should be breaking the [[fourth wall]] we could still add them? {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 17:21, 20 September 2014 (EDT)
:::Why isn't anyone answering? D: {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 08:15, 21 September 2014 (EDT)
::::I agree. [[User:YoshiCookie|YoshiCookie]] ([[User talk:YoshiCookie|talk]]) 11:16, 18 August 2015 (EDT)
:::::I think that's a good idea!::::: {{unsigned|152.26.228.54}}

== New Game Overs ==
Can't we just add Game Overs from newly-released games into the gallery? Like ''[[Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U]]''? ''[[Mario Party: Island Tour]]''? ''[[Yoshi's New Island]]''? ''[[Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze]]''? I mean, these games are already just announced and released, so why don't they have their Game Over gallery entries? (P.S. How about we just add Game Overs from other media like I said a few months ago?) {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 13:46, 14 May 2015 (EDT)
:WHY ISN'T ANYONE REPLYING? {{User:MeerkatMario/sig}} 13:44, 12 July 2015 (EDT)
::Just add them yourself. There's no reason why they're not up besides the fact that no one's gotten around to it yet: no point discussing it here. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 14:02, 12 July 2015 (EDT)

== The page is incomplete! ==

We need game over screens from Super Mario Maker, and Super Smash Bros for Nintendo 3DS/Wii U. [[User:Radfox35|<span style="font-family:Calibri;color:navy">Radfox35</span>]] 18:59, 9 November 2015 (EST)

== Mario Kart 8 ==

Would someone be able to add the Game Over screen for Mario Kart 8? {{unsigned|BlueToadYoshi}}
:I don't think there is one, unless you're talking about less than 6th in a grand prix. {{User:Roy Koopa/sig}} 17:23, 10 December 2015 (EST)
::That's what he's talking about. It's easy to get that, but I'm not gonna do it :P {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 17:25, 10 December 2015 (EST)
:::Oh ok. I'm a good player so I don't see it at all and I don't want to do something that would mess up my great record tbh {{User:Roy Koopa/sig}} 17:26, 10 December 2015 (EST)

== Wario Land ==
Can you do the game over screen for Wario Land: Super Mario Land 3? {{unsigned|98.251.97.126}}

== Missing Games ==

{{tem|more images}} is in the gallery section of [[Game Over]]. What games are missing? Let's make a list (below) and then when a game has been added, we strikethrough. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 15:34, 24 April 2016 (EDT)
I added some games that are missing. --{{User:Luigi 64DD/sig}} 13:24, 14 October 2016 (EDT)
===Missing Games===
The following is an example. Overwrite it with released games.
* <s>[[Paper Mario: Color Splash]]</s>
*[[Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3]]
*Several [[WarioWare (series)|WarioWare]] games

==References==
I think we should add a video reference for each game over. It should be possible to have a thorough perception of these game sequences for one to be convinced of details written on the wiki, such as what music or animation plays during the said sequences. I have already referenced most Donkey Kong game overs since they are more complex than the usual 2D Mario ones and I feel the text describing them is a little unconvincing without videos. In my opinion, even though the images on the page are important for a glance at each game over, they're not enough. To an extent, I would also propose referencing every action, idea, or character behavior described on the wiki with videos, which would be hard work but not a bad idea at all. Good articles on Wikipedia do that. Do you agree? -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}
:Videos aren't usually allowed in mainspace articles, but feel free to create a [[MarioWiki:Proposals|proposal]] if you wish to do so. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 13:44, 29 December 2016 (EST)
::Super Radio is talking about a link to a video, not an actual video in the mainspace. I have no idea what to do, but I can tell that a proposal is not necessary unless this section has a lot of disagreement. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:54, 29 December 2016 (EST)
:::If you link to a video, this wouldn't be the first article to do so. Linking to a video with a Game Over sequence I feel is fine. I even have an example of my own to use for ''Donkey Kong Country''. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYjsQEyJIWY&index=1&list=PL4f9TuusJb6BV9R35r-sr-X5YgUTlTocc WARNING: Noobish video] {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:58, 29 December 2016 (EST)

==Verification through video clips==
{{settledTPP}}
{{proposalOutcome|no quorum|1-0}}
Earlier, I proposed linking every game over described on this article to a corresponding video record of the said game over; you can check that too. I will now formally rise the same proposal.

I believe informational, descriptive and especially unofficial texts do not sound entirely convincing without a visual representation of what's being described. In the case of this article, while it's true we have screenshots for almost every game over sequence under the Mario coverage, they do not frame every aspect of the the game over screens. Since many game over sequences feature animation and specific soundtrack, I think proper verification for what is written in the article should be made with videos. These should be, of course, linked through references. I already placed such references to some Donkey Kong game over screens, just so you can see what I'm talking about.

Let me give you an example of game over sequence that is described on the wiki and needed a full-fledged visual verification for what is written. In the DKC2 game over sequence, there is the phrase "GAME OVER" falling lightly from above, then reaching the bottom. Diddy and Dixie Kong fade in above the text, then the screen's hue turns to red. As you can see, this game over involves a series of events, from the falling text to the screen turning red (am I right, people who played the game?). But I think a video to accompany all this would convince someone who hasn't played the game nor has encountered its game over screen that it's exactly how it is. I think even the game over screens from the Mario games, which are simplistic and could be framed by an image easily, should get the same treatment too - at the very least they feature music, which is properly sensed by audition, not by reading articles.

In other words, each piece of information describing a certain event in the Mario games should be accompanied by a video clip (preferrably from YouTube) in order to add... hmmm... more sensation to the said event than when simply reading about it. I think I made my point and I would like to see your own views on this proposal.

Some may think I propose something that is too minor to be faced as a problem, but I am afraid there are people who might deem using video references as unneeded. I just want to hear if it's true.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Super Radio}}<br>
'''Deadline''': January 12, 2017, at 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Super Radio}} per proposal

====Oppose====

====Comments====
My proposal could be expanded to the whole wiki. I sometimes feel like stories, actions, and gameplay described do not sound convincing enough since their textual presentations are unofficial and do not virtually link to anything close to the games themselves. But that's another discussion. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}

Couldn't you just do this yourself? Also, if you can't, you could just ask someone, right? --[[User:Green Mario|Green Mario]] ([[User talk:Green Mario|talk]]) 11:51, 14 January 2017 (EST)
:Of course I could do that stuff myself, but I don't want someone to see and simply remove what I have done and say it's unneeded for the page. A similar thing happened when I added a "[sic]" note to a poorly punctuated but otherwise official name, [[King K. Rool#Donkey Kong Land III|here]]; someone deleted the note claiming it's useless, but I restored it eventually. I want to avoid conflicts like this even for the smallest of things. I thought I could best do this through a proposal. I request not to be blamed for it. -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}

It's not that they're useless, but I'm against imposing such a standard that forces people to accompany their edits with a video that's not always necessary. I don't think the person reverting your edit, saying it's "unneeded", is in the right either, since videos function the same way as an image: they illustrate the subject in ways text cannot. But forcing editors to provide a video isn't something I'd like to see as policy. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 19:59, 16 January 2017 (EST)
:Ah, ok. I see what I did wrong. And if a video is equivalent to an image in that respect, then I think we have it all settled. I just read [[MarioWiki:Citations|the source citation policy]] and it implies we can use videos to confirm something. It was just old inattentive me who decided to make a proposal, sorry! -- {{User:Super Radio/Sig}}

== Media ==
Should '''{{BASEPAGENAME}}''' [[:Category:Media by game|media]] be linked to this article as well? I uploaded [[:File:SMW Game Over.oga]] for ''[[Super Mario World]]'' for a different purpose but could be repurposed. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:48, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
:I'm all for having a media page of Game Over tracks. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:46, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
::Let's see what others have to say. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 23:17, 4 June 2017 (EDT)
:::That would be cool, but the media doesn't run on my computer. -[[User:YoshiFlutterJump|YoshiFlutterJump]] ([[User talk:YoshiFlutterJump|talk]]) 16:58, 6 June 2017 (EDT)
::::See [[Help:Media]], the sections about browser support and external help. Personally, I use [[Wikipedia:K-Lite Codec Pack|K-Lite Codec Pack (mega)]] over [[Wikipedia:VLC media player|VLC Media Player]]. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 18:00, 6 June 2017 (EDT)

== Reorganize the images in this page's gallery ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-1-7-1-2|chronological by year}}
As organized as these images are, I'd still like to see some improvements. First, organizing the Game Over screen images by game system type is beginning to get unprofessional, since Nintendo now publishes games on mobile devices, and considering that I '''''just''''' uploaded [[:File:SMR Game Over.png]]. Second, it's not a very conventional way of searching for images, and I myself have problems finding a particular image with the current setup. Third, one user has pointed out (via maintenance tag) that Game Overs aren't necessarily restricted to games, and also appears in books and films such as ''[[Super Mario Bros.: Peach-hime Kyushutsu Dai Sakusen!]]''. Therefore, I propose that we change the organization to something different:
*'''Option 1: Chronological by year.''' This would divide the Game Over screens by the year that the game in question was first released, and suborder each Game Over screen by the respective game's earliest release date. (i.e. ''[[Mario + Rabbids Kingdom Battle]]''&apos;s image would come before ''[[Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions]]''&apos;s image) '''This is my suggested course of action.'''
*'''Option 2: Alphabetical.''' This would organize all Game Over screens in alphabetical order by game. The sections would read "A", "B", "C", "D", and so on, and so forth. '''I strongly suggest ''against'' doing this.'''
*'''Option 3: Chronological by series.''' This is about the same as Option 1, except the chronology would be limited to one series. '''I heavily suggest ''against'' this as well, due to the ambiguity this may produce for games such as ''[[Super Mario Maker]]'' or ''[[Super Mario Run]]''.'''
*'''Option 4: Suggest another course of action.''' If you vote in this section, please state in your vote any other course of action you want to suggest and I will try to add it in. '''I have no other comment here.'''
*'''Option 5: Do nothing.''' This keeps the current organization: by system and system type. '''For the reasons stated above, I also suggest ''against'' this.'''

This is just a rundown, so of course it's subject to change, but that's pretty much what I've got for you. Oh, and lastly, if you're wondering whether we should split the gallery from the parent page instead, I'm going to talk about that in a proposal immediately after this one. So...shall we begin?

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' November 2, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Option 1===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} List of games has a list of games by date. Also, most galleries are this way.
#{{User|Niiue}} Per all.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per proposal.
#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} Eh, why not? Putting these images in chronological order by the year they appeared in is pretty much like organizing the images by chronological order by the game system. Per all. This is my second option.
#{{User|Raltseye}} Why not?
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.

===Option 2===
#{{User|Alex95}} - I'm quite fond of having lists done in alphabetical order, as that makes things easier for myself. So, voting purely out of fondness.

===Option 3===
<s>#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} List of games has a list of games by genre. Also, most articles are done this way, but not galleries (option 1)</s>
#{{User|BBQ Turtle}} I personally think this is probably the best way to do it actually, as the rest of the article is organised by series, and I think it would be a bit more understandable for people who don't know the release years of games, I know that I would struggle with this option as I barely know any release years, but series organisation is simpler. I'm sure the ambiguity could be easily sorted out- We'd need a section for other one off games, so we could just whack them in there, or just class them as the series they're closest too- you can address that issue if this option wins, but no need to worry unless that happens.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all.
#{{User|Alex95}} - Per all.
#{{User|Raltseye}} other pages are organized this way. Why not this one?
#{{User|Tucayo}} - Per all.
#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} - Per all.
#{{User|Camwood777}} - Chronology by series. Basically, what I mean by this, is split into several sub-sections of the categories by series. Then, go by the chronology of their releases.

===Option 4===
#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} I think we have a couple ideas that would do. How about we organize these images by the genre or type of game they are? That sounds eccentric, but brilliant. This is my third option.

===Option 5===
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per games listed in the order in [[List of games|this page]].
#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} As my first option, I think that our current system, pun intended, is the best method of organizing these fun little guys.

===Comments===
The three options I chosen am I able to be fine with. Obviously (at least for me), there are known advantages and disadvantages to each. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 18:48, 19 October 2017 (EDT)<br>
@Lcrossmk8 isn't your suggestion the same as option 3? --[[User:Raltseye|<span style="color:#FF6464">R</span><span style="color:#11BB11">alts</span><span style="color:#6464FF">eye</span>]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 10:38, 24 October 2017 (EDT)<br>
Also I'm all for a consistent way of organized them and not as it is now. --[[User:Raltseye|<span style="color:#FF6464">R</span><span style="color:#11BB11">alts</span><span style="color:#6464FF">eye</span>]] [[User talk:Raltseye|prata med mej]] 10:38, 24 October 2017 (EDT)

== Paper Mario: The Origami King ==

I feel this section could use a little but of trimming down since the amount of non-battle game overs in this game is a bit too high, and I feel most of these are only listed because they're don't happen in battle or from a Paper Macho enemy. So what I'm suggesting is removing stuff that happens in specific things like Eddy River (which somebody just added), the western duel and the airship, and basically limit it to things you really would not expect to get a game over in, such as the Snifit face guessing. That's kind of how it is for the Thousand-Year Door and Super Paper Mario sections. {{User:Keyblade Master/sig}}
:"Places where you wouldn't expect a game over" is pretty subjective. I don't see why we should trim it, it seems like the logic here is just "there's too much information so we should cover less/none of it" which I will always oppose. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 13:30, January 10, 2021 (EST)

== Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope ==

you forgot the Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope game over screen{{unsigned|188.25.235.7}}
:The game was only released today, so it's most likely no one has gotten around to uploading it yet. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 21:06, October 20, 2022 (EDT)
OK! They will uploading soon later or another day?{{unsigned|188.25.235.7}}
:It will be uploaded when its uploaded, please be patient. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 07:22, October 25, 2022 (EDT)
:You can try uploading it yourself if you [[Special:CreateAccount|create an account]] and go to [[Special:Upload]]. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 08:00, October 25, 2022 (EDT)
OK! Create the another person account! and you can upload that Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope game over screen later! ❤️😃 {{unsigned|188.25.235.7}}

Besides, Admins? What will they upload that Mario + Rabbids: Sparks of Hope game over screen, so please thank you {{unsigned|109.166.132.10}}

The Purple Screen is named Battle Lost. And appears a map battle, and restart battle, return, or quit game Button! {{unsigned|188.25.233.134}}

It’s done! {{unsigned|Trinitron Tube}}

== Gallery section is quite big ==

I think it'll have to be split off into its own article sooner or later. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 12:12, December 11, 2022 (EST)
:I'd support creating [[Gallery:Game Over]] right away. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 13:00, December 11, 2022 (EST)

== Split the gallery section into its own page ==

{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|Create gallery page}}
Following what Bazooka Mario said in the above section, the gallery section of the page should be big enough for [[Gallery:Game Over]] to be created.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Swallow}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 31, 2022, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Swallow}} Per Proposal and previous section
#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal (though I'm not sure if proposals need to happen to split galleries when they get too big).
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} "Following what Bazooka Mario said in the above section." ;P
#{{User|Wildgoosespeeder}} Given how about half the page is text and the other half is embedded files, this is a good idea.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal, the gallery on this article is longer than some existing spilt galleries.
#{{User|Killer Moth}} Per proposal
#{{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} It's been done for every article for games and media, so why not this one?
#{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} Per proposal.

===Oppose===


===Comments===

== ? ==

What exactly needs to be added for the gallery? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:11, February 08, 2023 (CST)
:Most likely any game over screen that hasn't been uploaded onto the wiki. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:05, February 21, 2023 (EST)

== This page's bloat ==

Is it just me, or is this page extremely bloated? Like, do we really need to know the precise details of every single Game Over screen, like what characters say when you get a Game Over in [[Super Mario 3D World|3D World]], or what mood the Game Over music has in [[Donkey Kong Country]], or what kind of animations the characters do... This entire page is almost as big as the History section for the [[Koopa Paratroopa]], do Game Overs really deserve ''this'' kind of coverage? If I wanted to know the aesthetic specifics of every game over, then I would look in the Gallery or Media sections.

On a side note, why is there a "List of Game Over screens" instead of a History section, anyway? It just results in Super Paper Mario's usage of Game Over as a term for death being awkwardly separated into its own section. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 12:52, December 1, 2023 (EST)
:A ton of this article's content is likely dealt with in media sections, yeah. If not, the writing is poor: I don't think I want to read paragraphs about repetitive information on rectangles, sad music, "Mario or Luigi falls onto the ground, depressed" (whoa), "Mario's dead body on the stage", and options to retry or quit. {{User:Mario/sig}} 13:03, December 1, 2023 (EST)
::Yeah, there's a lot of "depression" in this article. Should I make a proposal for revamping the article, since it would entirely change the structure of the article? [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 14:25, December 5, 2023 (EST)
::At the very least, I wouldn't mind getting rid of the "Game Over as death" section, it sways away a bit from the actual purpose of this article and Super Paper Mario is the only game talked about. Who knows if that lore carries over into any other games. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 14:30, December 5, 2023 (EST)
:::"Who knows if that lore carries over into any other games" [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|That's not the wiki's judgement call to make.]] If the game makes a meta-commentary or something to that effect on the concept, it's fair game to write about it. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 14:41, December 5, 2023 (EST)
::::The "game over as death" section only covers one game, anyway. The only reason it's even its own section to begin with is that the section that would normally just be history is specifically labelled, "List of Game Over screens". Ideally, the two sections would be merged into one, which is one of the goals I'd hope to accomplish with a proposal. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 14:56, December 5, 2023 (EST)

Something that I just realized after I made the below proposal: there are a multitude of general losses in spin-offs and such that are listed as Game Overs, even if they aren't actually called as such. Are they fine to stay in this article, or are they too much? [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 21:10, December 7, 2023 (EST)

== Replace "List of Game Over screens" and "'Game Over' as death" sections with a "History" section ==
{{TPP}}
Before you look over this proposal, I invite you to ''try'' to read the main article. It's honestly absurd how in-depth this article goes into describing every little detail of every Game Over screen. And besides, I thought this article was about the mechanic of a Game Over, not how they look, or whether the music is "depressing". This page is just fundamentally flawed in how it is structured, so in this proposal, I hope to merge the two main sections, "List of Game Over screens" and "'Game Over' as death" into one "History" section, and to trim much of the unnecessary details.

'''Proposer''': {{User|DrippingYellow}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 20, 2023, 23:59 GMT

===Merge "List of Game Over screens" and "'Game Over' as death" into "History" section===
#{{User|DrippingYellow}} Per proposal
#{{User|7feetunder}} The "Game Over as death" concept is only really explored in ''SPM'', with the only other mention of it I can think of being a brief one in ''TTYD'', so we lose nothing by just putting it in a history section.
#{{User|PnnyCrygr}} I believe these earlier headers are flowery and fluffy and have existed since the ten’s; the history header title is more professional.
#{{User|Camwoodstock}} Per proposal. The "Game Over as Death" concept only really exists for Chapter 7 of ''Super Paper Mario'' and a whole One (1) line in ''TTYD''; we really ought to just merge these already, since not a whole lot is lost by doing that.

===Convert "List of Game Over screens" into "History", leave "'Game Over' as death"===

===Do nothing===

===Comments===
Before we vote--does any Mario game ''other'' than ''[[Super Paper Mario]]'' even use the term "Game Over" as a metaphor for death in the first place? At the moment, that entire subsection for "Game Over as Death" seems to be just about that game, and nothing else. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 19:43, December 6, 2023 (EST)
:I'm not entirely sure, but in the contents of the section we have currently, it ''only'' mentions ''Super Paper Mario''. If "Game Over" is used as slang for death elsewhere, it's probably not nearly enough to be worth noting. It'd be like creating a section in the [[Goomba]] article documenting all the instances where they reference how weak they are in a self-aware manner.

:P.S.: Just now noticed you already pointed out the article only has SPM in that section, so... whoops. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 20:46, December 6, 2023 (EST)

::Koops used it once in ''TTYD'' when he's reunited with his dad after beating Hooktail ("We thought your game was over!"), but ''SPM'' is the only game to use it regularly. {{User:7feetunder/sig}} 00:09, December 7, 2023 (EST)

What will this do to the Gallery? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 07:48, December 7, 2023 (CST)

What do you mean by "trim much of the unnecessary details"? That's much too vague. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:31, December 7, 2023 (EST)

:@SONIC123 This proposal shouldn't affect the Gallery in any way. The Gallery serves its purpose, whereas the main section that concerns this proposal reads like a gallery in the form of a high school essay.

:@Hewer The "unnecessary details" are the long-winded descriptions of the game over screens present in the sub-sections for each game. Ideally, this page would focus primarily on the Game Over mechanic, with a brief paragraph in the Super Paper Mario section noting the consistent usage of Game Over as slang for death. Super-ideally, the History section would focus mainly on game series in general, not every game individually, with perhaps the exception of the ''Paper Mario'' series. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 10:57, December 7, 2023 (EST)

::Ah, thank you. I was just worried that the Gallery would be affected. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 10:07, December 7, 2023 (CST)
::So the page would become a list of "In x game Game Over happens when you die/run out of lives" over and over? And what about information that can't be conveyed through just the gallery (e.g. the music)? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 11:45, December 7, 2023 (EST)
:::As I mentioned, the game sections can largely be merged into series sections, in order to make repetition minimal. Plus, the article already mentions at the top that Game Overs are a common trope that occurs when the player runs out of lives/chances. Subsequent mentions of Game Overs would likely not repeat that information, since it's kind of implied by the mere fact that the game has a Game Over. The main content in the ''Super Mario'' section would probably end up being the options the player has ''after'' a Game Over, like where they are sent after continuing, or how many continues there are, or whether there is a choice at all.

:::The music also does not need to be described as "moody" or "depressing", people can pick up on that by listening to the music in the Media section. Perhaps notable instances of [[Game Over (theme)|"Game Over"]] (the SMB1 game over theme) can be mentioned, but otherwise musical coverage is equally unnecessary. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 13:08, December 7, 2023 (EST)

::::Well, ok, but do you think the Media section should be removed, expanded, or kept as is? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 08:43, December 8, 2023 (CST)
:::::It ''probably'' would have to be expanded, but I would've had it expanded whether it's after this proposal or not. I can't figure out whether the media section here is supposed to be a sampling platter of Game Over themes, or a comprehensive list of Game Over themes. If it's the latter, then I'd definitely expand it, considering the conspicuous lack of things like the Game Over themes from ''Super Mario Land 2'' and most of the ''Paper Mario'' series. If it gets to be too big, then I'd probably split it into its own article like what we've done for the Gallery. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 10:34, December 8, 2023 (EST)
::::::Ok, if it is the latter. If it gets too big, you COULD spilt it, but would the spilt be like the Media pages of games? {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 09:40, December 8, 2023 (CST)
:::::::I suppose, but this is a little off-topic for the proposal. Let's just say the Gallery and Media sections are not affected by this proposal, and any changes/improvements that could be made to them are independent of the outcome. [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 12:31, December 8, 2023 (EST)
::::::::Ok, we can talk about/deal with it after the proposal. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 11:42, December 8, 2023 (CST)

To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if this proposal would ''really'' fix the article. Game Overs are kind of a generic concept in gaming, so I wonder if having a whole history section would really be necessary. Looking at the [[extra life]] article, which features a similarly generic game feature, it doesn't have one at all, so maybe that's the way to go? [[User:DrippingYellow|DrippingYellow]] ([[User talk:DrippingYellow|talk]]) 00:23, December 12, 2023 (EST)
:... I think the reason there isn't a history section is because there's still 1-Up/Extra Life - related stuff that still needs to be added. {{User|SONIC123CDMANIA+&K(B&ATSA)}} 07:51, December 12, 2023 (CST)