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| ==Bad article title== | | ==Bad article title== |
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| This article title doesn't seem to fit the "simple yet accurate" criteria per [[MarioWiki:Conjectural names]] and seems somewhat glaringly flowery on the current Mario Wiki. The only problem with changing the article's title to something less flowery is that I'm not sure what that would be... "Flipside resident" comes to mind but this ignores that they're also found in Flopside and Yold Town. Does anyone have any ideas? Highly interested in input as this has lasted way too long in my opinion. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 15:35, October 2, 2023 (EDT) | | This article title doesn't seem to fit the "simple yet accurate" criteria per [[MarioWiki:Conjectural names]] and seems somewhat glaringly flowery on the current Mario Wiki. The only problem with changing the article's title to something less flowery is that I'm not sure what that would be... "Flipside resident" comes to mind but this ignores that they're also found in Flopside and Yold Town. Does anyone have any ideas? Highly interested in input as this has lasted way too long in my opinion. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 15:35, October 2, 2023 (EDT) |
| :<s>I'm gonna go against the prevailing sentiment on this talk page</s> (edit: nvm, the first discussion was about the former "Flipperflopper" name) and state that I consider it a perfectly fine name myself. It makes a brief, but clear suggestion of the entire Flipside/Flopside contingent and the alliteration makes for a pleasant ring. I'd hate the page to be renamed to "Flipside and Flopside residents" or something else that would give people rheumatism when typed out. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:50, October 2, 2023 (EDT) | | :<s>I'm gonna go against the prevailing sentiment on this talk page</s> (edit: nvm, the first discussion was about the former "Flipperflopper" name) and state that I consider it a perfectly fine name myself. It makes a brief, but clear suggestion of the entire Flipside/Flopside contingent and the alliteration makes for a pleasant ring. I'd hate the page to be renamed to "Flipside and Flopside residents" or something else that would give people rheumatism when typed out. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:50, October 2, 2023 (EDT) |
| ::It's definitely a cute and catchy name and would feel natural for something like a fanfic or fan comic (I genuinely say this with no disparagement, to be clear) but it's a poor fit for the wiki in my view due to its flowery nature. It does feel like a {{fake link|Dark Evil Bat}} situation, per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Conjectural_names]], to some extent, compared to drier titles for similar articles such as [[Gwarhar Lagoon resident]], which I could imagine being called something like "Gwarhar Folk" in a fanfic or other community discussions, but it's not appropriate for a conjectural title. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 18:12, October 2, 2023 (EDT) | | ::It's definitely a cute and catchy name and would feel natural for something like a fanfic or fan comic (I genuinely say this with no disparagement, to be clear) but it's a poor fit for the wiki in my view due to its flowery nature. It does feel like a {{fake link|Dark Evil Bat}} situation, per [[MarioWiki:Naming#Conjectural_names]], to some extent, compared to drier titles for similar articles such as [[Gwarhar Lagoon resident]], which I could imagine being called something like "Gwarhar Folk" in a fanfic or other community discussions, but it's not appropriate for a conjectural title. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 18:12, October 2, 2023 (EDT) |
| :::Personally, I question whether this page should exist in the first place. I mean, characters introduced in Super Paper Mario, as far as I know, all use this geometric style, so what's the line drawn between Flip-Flop like Merlon and Howzit and not Flip-Flop like O'Chunks, the Sammer Guys or even Boomboxers? Am I making sense? It feels more like an art style than what this wiki would usually call a "species", especially with this article saying that "as they are descendants of the Ancients who are confirmed to have been human, it seems likely they can be considered human as well." [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 10:27, October 3, 2023 (EDT)
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| I think this name is uncharacteristically whimsical for a Super Mario Wiki conjectural title, but I also think this article should be deleted, not renamed. There isn't really anything that suggests that the basically-humans in Flipside Flopside and Yold Town are one singular species that's different from the basically-humans elsewhere in ''Super Paper Mario''. My preferred name for this article and associated category would be "''Super Paper Mario'' character (species)", if they need to exist at all. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 09:51, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I disagree that "''Super Paper Mario'' character (species)" would be a better title when other species unique to the game exist, like the Nimbis and Cragnons. I also think the page has warrant to exist, as it allows for easier organization of the sheer amount of named NPCs in the game. I’ve been editing a lot of their wiki pages recently and I follow the convention of labelling them as “Flipsider” or “Flopsider.” While there could be an argument for splitting this article into those two (based on residence rather than species, since no official species name is given), there are characters clearly of this same species from neither city that “Flip-Flop Folk” is useful for. I personally think it’s fine as is. —[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 10:45, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::To further clarify, I think “Flip-Flop Folk” says more about the characters since the name does stem from the cities most of them are found in, and there is no real reason to make separate articles when they clearly seem to be the same species. The “Flipsider” and “Flopsider” thing I mentioned earlier does link back to this page. "''Super Paper Mario'' character (species)" says nothing and just leads to confusion when there are characters in the game that are from different species. —[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 11:07, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::I think, outside of more bizarre designs like [[Howzit]], most of these could probably be simply classified as humans. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 11:19, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::I feel like that goes too into speculation. It’s like the whole “is Podley a Beanish” thing, except this has less evidence imo. —[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 11:28, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::Hence why I think this "species" should be removed outright. It's just as much speculation to conclude that these characters are one shared non-human species as it is to conclude that they are humans. {{User:JanMisali/sig}} 11:32, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::::Fair, but I still think this article is useful for organizational purposes considering the sheer number of named characters, as I discussed earlier. Maybe we could swap out “species” for “residents”? Not sure how that would work, though. —[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 11:35, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::::The title could be changed to "Flipsider and Flopsider," but of course that doesn't necessarily cover the Yolders or the Gloamers. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:41, July 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::::I also say the article should probably be deleted, it's a fan-made name for what is essentially a fan-made concept (nothing confirms that any of these similarly designed characters share a species). {{User:Hewer/sig}} 18:56, July 18, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::::::I still stand by this being useful for categorical reasons, and that we could rework this into being a "resident" thing rather than a "species" thing. We could just split the Flip-Flop Folk page by location, and keep the "Flipsider" and "Flopsider" names while coming up with a couple new ones for Yold Town and such. I do think the Flipsiders and Flopsiders at least are meant to be connected considering each has a parallel in the other city, so maybe we just rename this page to that and then make new ones for Yold Town residents, etc? --[[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 19:07, July 18, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::::::We can easily just have categories for "Flipside residents", "Flopside residents", etc., not sure why we also need an article for that. And each individual Flipsider and Flopsider has a page anyway. We can adequately cover the connections without needing a page on a made-up species to put them in. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 20:36, July 18, 2024 (EDT)
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| ==Determine whether to rename or delete this page==
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| {{settled TPP}}
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| {{proposal outcome|passed|2-8-0|Delete page}}
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| So, here we are. This has been a topic of debate for years, so let's figure this out now rather than never. There are two main actions we can take: either we rename this page to something more fitting of a conjectural name (similarly to the X-Ship proposal I just made, Flip-Flop Folk sounds more "official" than anything and doesn't fit [[MarioWiki:Conjectural names]] criteria, and besides that it leads to confusion regarding residents of say, Yold Town), or we delete it altogether.
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| Now, back in July I was staunchly in favor of this page remaining up for "organizational purposes". What I didn't think of at the time was simply making categories - there could be categories made for the residents of each location (Flipside, Flopside, Yold Town, Gloam Valley). For instance, there would be a category titled "Flipside residents". I do see some merit in keeping the page though, as it has information relating to their possible origins and comparisons between Flipside and Flopside residents that are made clearer here than if they were split between the Flipside and Flopside pages, as well as comparisons with residents of the other two locations.
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| Then again, what would we even rename the page? I can't think of anything good that solves the issues inherent to Flip-Flop Folk (that being, causing confusion for members likely of the same species elsewhere, if they even are the same species), and I think other names suggested like ''Super Paper Mario'' (species) or even considering them human causes more confusion than there is already.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Technetium}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': October 29, 2024, 23:59 GMT
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| ===Rename page and category===
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| #{{User|Technetium}} Secondary choice, mostly due to not knowing what a better name could be. I may change this vote depending on ideas presented in the comments.
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| #{{User|Pseudo}} Per proposal, previous talk page discussion, and my comment below.
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| ===Delete page and split category by location of residence===
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| #{{User|Technetium}} Primary choice. The category idea feels so obvious in hindsight, and I suppose we could just describe the residents' appearances and comparisons in each location's page.
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| #{{User|Hewer}} Per above discussion, this page even existing is speculative since nothing suggests these characters are all of the same species. I imagine any unique information the page has to offer would be easily incorporated elsewhere.
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| #{{User|JanMisali}} Per all. Sorry, "''Super Paper Mario'' character (species)"!
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| #{{User|Sparks}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Pseudo}} Secondary choice; this would be perfectly acceptable to me if a better title cannot be agreed upon.
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| #{{User|Ahemtoday}} I'm gonna miss this name, but yeah, this is the right call. As for the trends between Flipside and Flopside counterparts, that can probably end up on the pages for those locations.
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| #{{User|Drake Inferno}} Per all. The concept is vaguely useful given shared ancestry across Lineland and Flipside. But the topic has way too much associated speculation to actually be a useful and credible page. Who counts, how do we determine who's of the same species, how do we operationally determine who's human and which kind of human, which areas' residents do we include or not, it's just more trouble than it's worth. Also the Flip-Flop Folk name, while genuinely good, is so good that I assumed in passing it must have come from a peripheral guidebook or something for like a decade. So even if we keep the page, it should be like "Non-Shaman Ancient descendants" or something.
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| #{{User|ThePowerPlayer}} To stop people from mistakenly thinking this name is official. Also, too speculative.
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| ===Do nothing===
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| ===Comments===
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| {{fake link|Flipside, Flopside, and Yold Town resident}} (possibly adding Gloam Valley or removing Yold Town) would be the most compelling article title in my opinion; though it’s a bit cumbersome, it matches historical examples on the wiki such as [[lagoon-dweller]] (previously titled "Gwarhar Lagoon resident" prior to the discovery of this official name) and would be appropriately dry. I’m fully in agreement that {{fake link|''Super Paper Mario'' character (species)}} would be undesirable, though I do think that these characters appear to be the same type of creature as one another, so keeping an article for them as a species seems justified in the very same way as the lagoon-dwellers' page. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 23:50, October 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I should also add that even if the first option passes and the article is kept and renamed, I'm still in support of creating the second option's categories, as this seems like a useful distinction regardless. {{User:Pseudo/sig}} 23:53, October 15, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::Yeah, I could make subcategories for each location if we decide to keep the page. [[User:Technetium|Technetium]] ([[User talk:Technetium|talk]]) 15:15, October 16, 2024 (EDT)
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