Editing Talk:Fire Flower

==Is it disgusting or delicious?==
In the trivia part of this article, it reads:

"Mario even reveals something about their taste, claiming that fire flowers ''''taste disgusting''', but if I eat them, I can shoot Fireballs.'"

However, the constellation information for Fire Flower in Mario Party 9 states:

"A constellation resembling a lovely flower. Though it makes a '''surprisingly tasty snack''', it's spicy enough to cause any who eat it to breath fire."

{{User:Koopakoolklub/sig}} 10:11, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

:Both of them are just one-off lines with no real importance. I doubt the writers of Mario Party 9 went out of their way to check that their jokes are in line with the German comics.--[[User:Vommack|Vommack]] ([[User talk:Vommack|talk]]) 11:32, 20 April 2014 (EDT)

== Trivia mess-up ==

Has anyone noticed that the trivia for the omnipresent Fire Flower just plain makes no sense?
Most of the stuff there is repeated information; it could easily be shrunk down to just two or three dot points. [[User:PokeMaster33333|PokeMaster33333]] ([[User talk:PokeMaster33333|talk]]) 17:30, 29 June 2015 (EDT)

==Split ''Mario & Luigi'' series's Fire Flower special attack into a new "Fire Flower (move)" article==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|red|failed 3-4}}
I do not understand why this section (a Special Attack) is merge with a Item that does not appear in these games. Most Special Attack have their own page so this one should also have its own page. This name was used for a Special Attack and not to mentioned a item. This sould be split in a page called "Fire Flower (move)". (Eg : [[Goomba Storm]] is not merge with [[Goomba]], [[Shy Guy Squad]] is not merge with [[Shy Guy]]…)

'''Proposer''': {{User|LudwigVon}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 19, 2015, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per my proposal.
#{{User|Marioguy}} Per LudwigVon.
#{{User|Sonic98}} Per all.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} Per discussion below. Since the attack names refer to a specific item than a move name, it would be better (in this case) to leave information on attacks that involve recurring Mario items to one page. Otherwise, we'd have to bend backward and split a lot of other items because they function differently from the core game (Bullet Bill (item), Blooper (item), Chain Chomp (item), Chain Chomp (special item), Springboard from [[Trampoline]], and other items. Finally, this proposal refers to an item that may not be seen, but the implications of the Fire Flower's existence are strong, demonstrated by the form change Mario and Luigi undergo.
#{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Bazooka Mario. The info's fine where it is.
#{{User|RandomYoshi}} &ndash; Per all.
#{{User|Roy Koopa}} Per all.

====Comments====
This should also be do for the [[Red Shell]] and [[Green Shell]], but I will wait after this proposal (if it passed)--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  17:26, 5 December 2015 (EST)

All of Mario and Luigi's [[Special Attack (Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story)|Special Attacks]] refer to a tangible item while Bowser's refers to a group or an action, so the comparison isn't perfect. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:02, 5 December 2015 (EST)
:Also, one more comment: if this proposal passes, are you going to consider ''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'' Bros. items or are you just going to split that into something like "Green Shell (Bros. Item)". I'm not fully on board with this proposal. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 23:57, 6 December 2015 (EST)
::I will just split into something like "Bros. Flower" since in ''Partners in Time'', the Bros. Attack from ''Superstar Saga'' was replace with Bros. Item (a different concept) and later replace with special attack in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' (also a different concept this proposal is for this one). For ''Dream Team'' and ''Paper Jam'', they should just get merge with Superstar Saga's Fire Bros. since they are Bros. Attack. I just make a single proposal for this one, because I wanted to know if there was possibility that it can passed, then after I will make bigger proposal for the attack and where it should go.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  11:28, 8 December 2015 (EST)
:::That sounds pretty convoluted. Wouldn't it be just good if all Fire Flower information stayed put in one overall Fire Flower page? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 16:00, 10 December 2015 (EST)
::::After writing this, I thought about it a little , I did some checking on my side and I think you're right, I also think this attack has no real difference between each game.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  17:42, 10 December 2015 (EST)

== Split Bros. Flower from Fire Flower ==
{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-6|don't split}}
While Bros. Flowers are very similar to Fire Flowers, the fact that they're used slightly differently and have different names in ''every region'' should be a clue that they're meant to be different from regular Fire Flowers.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Niiue}}<br>
'''Deadline''': May 13, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Niiue}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Alex95}} ...They weren't already? Shows how much I've been keeping up with this page...<br>Anyway, the two items are indeed different, as far as I can tell. The only similarity is the appearance and fireballs. But the Bros. Flower effects '''all''' members of the party and the move behaves differently, switching back and forth between members as the battle goes on. It also does not change the characters' appearance, unlike the Fire Flower. I think this item only appears in ''Partners in Time'' (could be wrong), but I think the Bros. Flower should have its own page. And not just because I thought it had one already.
<s>#{{User|Supermariofan67}} Per all</s><br>
<s>#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all. Now that I realize this is referring specifically to ''Partners in Time'', I have decided to change my vote.</s> <br>
<s>#{{User|The Koopa Bro.}} Per all. They act differently.</s>

===Oppose===
#{{User|Yoshi the Space Station Manager}} Per proposal above (oppose side)
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} The Bros. Flower is too similar to the Fire Flower for it to warrant its own article. Per all.
#{{User|Baby Luigi}} Just because they have a different function doesn't mean they're a separate item. Stars are used as different items in the Mario series all the time and have slightly different names, and this includes the [[1-Up Mushroom]], where in platformers it gives you an extra life while in RPGs they revive a dead member. I'd per {{User|LeftyGreenMario}}'s previous oppose as well.
#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per Baby Luigi and Toadette the Achiever's comment below. Also, the Fire Flower in ''Bowser's Inside Story'' is referred to as "Bros. Flower" in German, implying they are the same thing, which is supported by the fact that they act the same. If we were splitting things because they were different, I would split the ''Smash Bros.'' Fire Flowers long before these ones, as they shoot fire out of the flower itself and doesn't grant the player the power to throw fireballs (Not saying we should, though). About the fact that Mario and Luigi don't go into their fire form, they also don't in the ''Mario Kart'' series.
#{{User|Wildgoosespeeder}} Splits like this seem arbitrary and makes navigating MarioWiki confusing.
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per all, especially the fact that there is already a similar (failed) proposal above.

===Comments===
@Alex95: I hope you don't mind me critiquing your points:
*"''But the Bros. Flower affects '''all''' members of the party...''"
::The Fire Flower does '''''exactly''''' the same in ''[[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story]]'', ''[[Mario & Luigi: Dream Team]]'', '''''and''' [[Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam]]''.
*"''...and the move behaves differently, switching back and forth between members as the battle goes on.''"
::Again, the Fire Flower does exactly that in all subsequent games in the series!
*"''It also does not change the characters' appearance, unlike the Fire Flower.''"
::Neither did the [[Ice Flower]]. In fact, visible form transformations were not seen in any Mario RPG until ''Bowser's Inside Story'', and then every game thereafter.

The split ''sounds'' like a good idea on paper, but when it comes to splitting and merging, '''especially''' when it comes to splitting and merging, there needs to be enough similarities or differences to do so. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 13:32, 29 April 2017 (EDT)
:The Bros. Flower is indeed similar, as it was based off of the Fire Flower in the first place. However, the main Fire Flower's first appearance in a ''Mario & Luigi'' title was after ''Partners in Time'', after the Bros. Flower was introduced. Later titles replaced the Bros. Flower with the Fire Flower and kept its properties, but the Bros. Flower made the Fire Flower how it is in the ''Mario & Luigi'' titles. It has a different name and different properties, I think that's enough for it to be split.
:This was also the first appearance of the Ice Flower. The transformations for that first appeared in ''Super Mario Galaxy'', two years later. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 13:42, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

::As I stated in my vote above, several other versions of Fire Flowers have different properties from each other (for example, compared to ''Super Mario Bros.'', the Fire Flowers in ''Paper Mario'', ''Super Smash Bros.'', ''Super Mario Galaxy'', ''Mario Kart'', ''P&D:SMBE'', ''Mario & Luigi'', and several other games all have different properties), though they are still considered Fire Flowers. Also, about the name, several subjects have had their name changed briefly, such as [[Huffin' Puffin]] and [[Petey Piranha]]. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 15:11, 29 April 2017 (EDT)

@Wildgoosespeeder: How is this split particularly arbitrary? [[User:Niiue|Niiue]] ([[User talk:Niiue|talk]]) 16:36, 30 April 2017 (EDT)

== The Superball Flower ==

There are no Fire Flowers in Super Mario Land, but there are Superball Flowers.

-Alex the Toad
@@ Line 18: / Line 18: @@
 ==Split ''Mario & Luigi'' series's Fire Flower special attack into a new "Fire Flower (move)" article==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|red|failed 3-4}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|red|failed 3-4}}
 I do not understand why this section (a Special Attack) is merge with a Item that does not appear in these games. Most Special Attack have their own page so this one should also have its own page. This name was used for a Special Attack and not to mentioned a item. This sould be split in a page called "Fire Flower (move)". (Eg : [[Goomba Storm]] is not merge with [[Goomba]], [[Shy Guy Squad]] is not merge with [[Shy Guy]]…)
@@ Line 46: / Line 46: @@
 == Split Bros. Flower from Fire Flower ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|2-6|don't split}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|failed|2-6|don't split}}
 While Bros. Flowers are very similar to Fire Flowers, the fact that they're used slightly differently and have different names in ''every region'' should be a clue that they're meant to be different from regular Fire Flowers.
@@ Line 90: / Line 90: @@
 -Alex the Toad
-:Yes, and since they aren't Fire Flowers, they don't particularly need mentioned in the history section. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:41, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
-::Please sign your comments on talk pages with 4 tildes (~). {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 21:43, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
-== Please, make "Fire Flowers" a singular noun (not plural) ==
-Sentence as right now:
-'''Fire Flowers''' are a power-up that are obtainable in many games in the Mario franchise, originating from Super Mario Bros.
-Sentence Edited:
-A '''Fire Flower''' is a power-up that is obtainable in many games in the Mario franchise, originating from Super Mario Bros.
-Use the second one for this article.
--Alex the Toad
-:Hate to come off as rude, but no means no. It looks worse that way. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:58, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
-::Why? And it matches [[Ice Flower]]'s writing as well. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:59, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
-No means no, but the best thing to do is to use the second sentence above. The first sentence above is very worse for this article.
--Alex the Toad
-:No it isn't, and no it doesn't. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:07, April 9, 2019 (EDT)
-::As I have told you, sign your comments on talk pages with four tildes, please. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 22:09, April 9, 2019 (EDT)