Editing Talk:Evil doppelganger

I think this is a perfect solution for the merge to suggestion =]{{user:theused/sig}}
:This really is quite nice :){{user:Goomb-omb/sig}}
::Lol, thank you!{{user:theused/sig}}

== I Think The Dark Samuses Are Not Dark ==


...If that made sense. Since they don't have the shadowy glow around them, and there are 2, and there is no possibility that they could have consumed a trophy to form, since Samus hasn't been trophified in that scene....
I think they're different. 

{{User:Dom/sig}}

:Makes sense to me. Since there's no trophy that was created for the Shadow Bugs to swarm and copy over, it seems more likely that the two Samuses fought are actually more along the lines of cybernetic clones created by the facility to guard Samus's actual suit of armor. But who knows? It's also possible that that they turned her suit into a trophy just to copy it, then turned it back for some reason. But then that wouldn't explain the lack of "aura" or yellow visor. ([[User:Alex95|Alex95]] ([[User talk:Alex95|talk]]) 15:26, 31 December 2015 (EST))

==Move Please==
The official name for individual characters is "False Zelda," "False Peach," etc. based on the names of cutscenes, so this article should be named "False Character."  It's closest to official we have. -- {{User|Son of Suns}}
:Will do. {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 02:42, 26 November 2008 (EST)

==Game & Watch ==
Umm I think that there we're false versions of Game & Watch you know on the Battleship Halberd and then snake knocks them out the window. so should he have one?--[[User:Luigibros2|Luigibros2]] 12:29, 23 December 2008 (EST)

:Are they "false" versions or multiple copies of Game & Watch himself? As Mr. Game & Watch is the source of all Shadow Bugs, I don't know if he can create an "evil" version of himself.  He just creates more of himself. -- {{User|Son of Suns}}

But who said false characters had to be evil?[[User:Nintendofan146|Nintendofan146]] 10:20, 16 May 2009 (EDT)

== Conjecture? ==

According to [[smashwiki:Talk:False character|discussions]] on SmashWiki, the name is official, at least for the [[Princess Peach|princ]][[Princess Zelda|esses]]. Should the conjecture template be removed? Or should it stay because of the Character part? If it's still conjecture, I think False Fighter would be a better name. A False Character could apply to many things outside this game, such as [[False Bowser]]s or [[Cosmic Clone]]s. False Fighter is difficult to confuse with anything (and it's a bit more alliterative).<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 16:45, 16 March 2017 (EDT)
:Changed to {{tem|Part conjecture}} for the time being. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 12:51, 23 October 2017 (EDT)

== Move to False Fighter ==
{{TPP}}

I think that '''False Fighter''' is a more descriptive name than '''False Character'''. False Character could refer to quite a few things ([[Fake Bowser|False Bowser]]s, [[Belome|Belome Copies]], [[Cosmic Clone]]s, etc.). False Fighter makes it clear (or at least more so) that this is referring to the bosses in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]. Besides, ''Fighter'' is the term normally used for playable Smash characters, not ''Character''. Of course, it's still a conjectural name, but a better one.

<s>There's also the fact that False Fighter sounds ''way'' better.</s>

'''Proposer''': {{User|Ultimate Mr. L}}<br>
'''Deadline''': December 30, 2017, 23:59 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per me.
#{{User|Alex95}} - I guess this wouldn't hurt.
#{{User|Tails777}} I can agree with this. With all the different types of false characters the Mario series has seen, Fighters suits Smash Bros. a bit better. And while it is still an unofficial name, I honestly doubt we'll see a real name for these characters. So per proposal, I don't see it hurting anything.
#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Sounds good to me and after all, fighters fit perfectly for Smash Bros.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Time Turner}} To me, hopping from one conjectural name to another seems kinda pointless and the names really aren't all that different from each other. I'd also rather keep things consistent with the [[smashwiki:False character|SmashWiki]].
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} "Besides, Fighter is the term normally used for playable Smash characters, not Character." Not according to the (presumably official) name of this music track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRrAy90I980
#{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Per all, I don't really see the point in this.

===Comments===
@Tails777: Well, it's sorta official. These types of characters are named "FitKoopaFake.pcs" in their official file names of the game. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:52, 16 December 2017 (EST)
:Wouldn't "Fake Fighter" be a better name as a very-loosely-technically official name, then? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:53, 16 December 2017 (EST)
::"False" is used in game through the cutscene titles, though only in reference to False Peach and Zelda. For Samus, it's "The Copied Power Suit". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 21:54, 16 December 2017 (EST)
:::Also, I'm not sure why The Great Maze section is in this article, because they're completely different types of enemies if we were to go by file-name logic (They're called FitKoopaDark.pac/.pcs, and all characters except the exceptions listed have that alongside characters who have the Fake suffix) {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 21:58, 16 December 2017 (EST)
::::[[Talk:Shadow_Character#Merge_with_False_Character|Proposal]]. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:59, 16 December 2017 (EST)
:::::Well then, I disagree with the merge. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 22:00, 16 December 2017 (EST)
::::::It takes a proposal to undo another proposal. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:05, 16 December 2017 (EST)
::::In this case, I don't think we should use the file names, as the characters ''do'' have an English title of "False". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 22:16, 16 December 2017 (EST)
:::::If they're all consistently named (and they all are), I think it's safe to drop the conjecture template. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 22:17, 16 December 2017 (EST)
::::::They are and they aren't. False Peach and False Zelda (EDIT: False Bowser as well) are the only ones really given titles. In the broad sense, "False" is the only part that's really official. "Character" and "fighter" aren't. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 22:20, 16 December 2017 (EST)

'''@Doc von Shmeltwick''' Perhaps in the original ''Smash Bros.'', but the instruction manual for ''Brawl'' refers to them as Fighters.<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 09:29, 17 December 2017 (EST)
:Both the official websites for ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U/3DS'' refer to them as "characters". I think it's clear by this point that the terms are used interchangeably. {{User:MrConcreteDonkey/sig}} 10:03, 18 December 2017 (EST)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==(First topic)==
 I think this is a perfect solution for the merge to suggestion =]{{user:theused/sig}}
 :This really is quite nice :){{user:Goomb-omb/sig}}
@@ Line 32: / Line 31: @@
 == Move to False Fighter ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|failed|3-7}}
-I think that '''False Fighter''' is a more descriptive name than '''False Character'''. False Character could refer to quite a few things ([[Impostor Bowser|False Bowser]]s, [[Belome|Belome Copies]], [[Cosmic Clone]]s, etc.). False Fighter makes it clear (or at least more so) that this is referring to the bosses in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]. Besides, ''Fighter'' is the term normally used for playable Smash characters, not ''Character''. Of course, it's still a conjectural name, but a better one.
+I think that '''False Fighter''' is a more descriptive name than '''False Character'''. False Character could refer to quite a few things ([[Fake Bowser|False Bowser]]s, [[Belome|Belome Copies]], [[Cosmic Clone]]s, etc.). False Fighter makes it clear (or at least more so) that this is referring to the bosses in [[Super Smash Bros. Brawl]]. Besides, ''Fighter'' is the term normally used for playable Smash characters, not ''Character''. Of course, it's still a conjectural name, but a better one.
 <s>There's also the fact that False Fighter sounds ''way'' better.</s>
@@ Line 44: / Line 42: @@
 ===Support===
 #{{User|Ultimate Mr. L}} Per me.
+#{{User|Alex95}} - I guess this wouldn't hurt.
 #{{User|Tails777}} I can agree with this. With all the different types of false characters the Mario series has seen, Fighters suits Smash Bros. a bit better. And while it is still an unofficial name, I honestly doubt we'll see a real name for these characters. So per proposal, I don't see it hurting anything.
-#{{User|LuigiMaster123}} Per all.
+#{{User|YoshiStar28}} Sounds good to me and after all, fighters fit perfectly for Smash Bros.
 ===Oppose===
@@ Line 51: / Line 50: @@
 #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} "Besides, Fighter is the term normally used for playable Smash characters, not Character." Not according to the (presumably official) name of this music track: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRrAy90I980
 #{{User|MrConcreteDonkey}} - Per all, I don't really see the point in this.
-#{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per all.
-#{{User|Alex95}} - Originally supported, but thinking more on it, this change seems unnecessary.
-#{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all.
-#{{User|Lcrossmk8}} I'm going with the SmashWiki on this one, and they oppose this proposal.
 ===Comments===
@@ Line 71: / Line 66: @@
 {{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 09:29, 17 December 2017 (EST)
 :Both the official websites for ''Brawl'' and ''Wii U/3DS'' refer to them as "characters". I think it's clear by this point that the terms are used interchangeably. {{User:MrConcreteDonkey/sig}} 10:03, 18 December 2017 (EST)
-== Changing the name ==
-I was checking the trophy description for the Shadow Bug and noticed this line: "''They can also copy the forms of trophies to create '''evil doppelganger''' versions of them.''". Shouldn't we call them like this? {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 10:50, August 12, 2022 (EDT)
-:I'd agree with that. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 09:41, August 14, 2022 (EDT)
-::Yeah, the move is needed [[User:Spectrogram|Spectrogram]] ([[User talk:Spectrogram|talk]]) 07:52, September 26, 2022 (EDT)
-:::For the record, the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4K90Lq5YbU&t=173s Japanese equivalent] is「ニセモノ」(''nisemono'', false figure, counterfeit, or imitation). - I'd suggest "doppelganger" but since that article is taken, I suppose we're still on board with moving to "evil doppelganger"? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:38, July 30, 2023 (EDT)
-I'd say no, the smash wiki never lies [[User:Cheese Head|Cheese Head]] ([[User talk:Cheese Head|talk]]) 02:52, September 18, 2023 (EDT)
-:Actually, Cheese Head, even on the Smash Wiki it's (apparently) a conjectural name, if you check the discussion. But digging what they were saying, about the name deriving from cutscenes titles (in the wiki), they ARE called False ("The Dissolving of the False King Bowser", "False Zelda/Peach Battles Mario/Link", "Princesses, Both Captured and False"), but in the discussion, one was stating to never have seen the word "false" being in the titles. I would like to check if such titles are or aren't made up from the wiki. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 04:50, September 18, 2023 (EDT)
-::I unfortunately do not have a copy of the English version on hand, but I do have the Japanese version. It take it the titles derive from [[smashwiki:list of cutscenes in The Subspace Emissary|here]]. Looking at the equivalents in the Data->Movie->Subspace Emissary section, I get the following:「ニセクッパ{{ruby|大王|だいおう}}、{{ruby|溶|と}}ける」,「ニセピーチ、リンクと{{ruby|戦|たたか}}う」,「ニセゼルダ、マリオと{{ruby|戦|たたか}}う」, and「{{ruby|捕|と}}らわれ{{ruby|姫|ひめ}}たちとニセ{{ruby|姫|ひめ}}たち」. So yes, these are pretty direct translations, and are probably the same. Despite that, I don't think it really changes much, and say that "evil doppelganger" is still the best descriptive English term for these figures overall. Sure, it's mildly annoying that the menu and trophy text translations weren't coordinated, but these things happen. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:18, September 27, 2023 (EDT)
-:::We could still use this for internal names. {{User:Mariuigi_Khed/sig}} 05:11, September 28, 2023 (EDT)