Editing Talk:Dry Bones

== RIP, Koopa ==

So, wait, these ARE dead [[Koopas]]? Because in previous games they seemed to have been born that way.{{unsigned|Wariofett4242}}
:Yep. {{User:Super-Yoshi/sig}}
:Yes they are dead [[Koopas]].

== aren't they in super mario world, too? ==

aren't dry bones in [[Super Mario World]], also? [[User:Username|Infectedshroom]][[Image:infectoicon.png]] 18:35, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

Yes. -- [[User: Sir Grodus|Sir Grodus]]

then i'll put that in there.[[User:Username|Infectedshroom]][[Image:infectoicon.png]]

I added that they can be defeated permanently with the cape in SMW. It's my first edit! :) [[User: CD Santa|CD Santa]]

== super Mario Galaxy ==

They aren't on four legs, they're leaning over lik emaybe a zombie would. {{User:Minimariolover10/sig}}

You're right, you can see that they have hands not 4 feet because they're clenched into fists.--[[User:Kamek101|Kamek101]] 09:36, 9 December 2007 (EST)

I don't think that's what he or she means, they are standing on two feet ( or hands ) and the ones in the front aren't really touching the ground, it just appears that way because dry bones is slouched.
Never mind actually, I think I was the one who didn't understand what you said, well typed anyway.

==Sub-Species?==

I really don't think that they are. They're just Koopa Troopas who came back from the dead.{{unsigned|Hammer}}
:Yeah, I think we are a bit generous around the wiki in giving the Sub-Species status to creatures. A [[Paragoomba]], for example, is arguably a sub-species of Goomba, it can become a Goomba easily when you jump on them. - {{User:Cobold/sig}} 08:06, 24 December 2007 (EST)

==nominate==
I NOMINATE THIS PAGE AS A FEATURED ARTICLE (or if im doing it wrong could some1 do it 4 me?) {{unsigned|Wiki443556}}

Sigh. Gramurz r gud man. All caps prove n00bishness. IIRC, this article has been featured before. Using numbers instead of phrases is bad. Sign your edits.... blah blah blah.... brush your teeth.... [[User:GreenKoopa|GreenKoopa]] - [[User talk:GreenKoopa|Comments or questions?]]
:It has been nominated before, not featured. For how to nominate an article, please see [[MarioWiki:Featured articles]]. But please remember to give a good reason for your nomination (don't ask me what a good reason would look like), otherwise the community might decide to remove your vote. {{User:Time Q/sig}} 17:23, 27 May 2008 (EDT)

==Thanks==
This may be a dumb place to say this, but thanks, Sir Grodus, for the source. I was looking everywhere for it yesterday. X_X {{User:InfectedShroom/sig}}

== Am I Missing Something, Or Do I Have..........'''AMNESIA?!''' ==

It says that chronologically, they first appeared in Partners in Time. Then the next paragraph says their ''true'' debut is in Super Mario World, which is what I thought. So, how is it that they first appeared in Partners in Time? That can't be right, can it?

{{User:Dom/sig}}

:They first appeared to us in Super Mario Bros. 3, as far as I know. '''However''', their first appearance '''in the history of the Mushroom Kingdom''' (hence the word "chronologically") was in M&L:PiT. —{{User:Soler/sig}} 08:07, 25 June 2008 (EDT).

== Japanese Name ==

In japanese, ''karakara''  means bone dry, not clattering. ''Garagara'' means clattering.--[[User:Bowser the Second|Bowser the Second]] 00:26, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
:Go ahead and change it then. :) If you have trouble navigating the non-English names template, let us know. {{User:Stumpers/sig}} 12:36, 12 March 2009 (EDT)
== Magic? ==
Ok. Mario Party DS Said Dry Bones Turned [[Donkey Kong]] to stone with MAGIC! Since when did Dry Bones Learn MAGIC? I mean he didn't have magic in any other game! - [[User: Thirsty for Power]]

:Dry Bones' trophy explains that it was learned from Kamek. {{User:Twentytwofiftyseven/sig|}} 20:26, 18 March 2009 (EDT)

And, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't they have magic in Mario RPG? [[User: Mecha-Boss Unit]]

:The ''boss'' Dry bones used magic in Mario party DS. I'm pretty sure Kamek was comanding/controlling him. Dry & Dull bones both ''might'' use magic in the Paper mario series to bring back partners. Also, aren't their bones held together by magic? I mean there aren't Dry Goombas... It has to be Kamek! - {{User|Doopliss rocks}}

That Explained a Bunch. Thanks! but woulbn't it be cool if there WERE dry goombas? [[User: Mecha-Boss Unit]]
:There were [[Zombie Goomba]]s {{User:MrConcreteDonkey/sig}}

== Excuse me ==

Will someone please explain to me where Dry Bones was in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games? I've searched the article ten times over yet I haven't seen the word Sonic in the whole thing except as the title of a (misplaced) navbox. I think it should be removed from that navbox and the navbox removed from the page.

P.S.Sorry about the sig problems, I've fixed it--[[Special:Random|<font color="red">Marioguy1</font>]] My talk page <sub>([[Special:Mypage|haha]], no [[User talk:Marioguy1|link]] for you [[User:Marioguy1|)]]</sub> 00:10, 4 July 2009 (EDT)

Also, where is Super Mario Galaxy 2 section? I'm thinking this should be unfeatured. {{User:Booderdash/sig|.}}

==Skeleton (Species)?==
Is it allowed if I create a [[Skeleton (species)]] article to describe the species origin of skeleton enemies like Dry Bones and Fishbones?--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 23:36, 16 June 2011 (EDT)
:Seems it's okay then. I'll try.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 15:22, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
::I suggest not, skeletons aren't really a species just meatless remains of the dead or undead. -[[User:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Four'''</span> <span style="color:grey">'''Paper'''</span>]] [[User talk:FourPaperHeroes|<span style="color:green">'''Heroes'''</span>]] [[File:FourPaperHeroes.jpg|35px]] 15:34, 12 July 2011 (EDT)
:::I agree with Four Paper Heroes {{User|Goomba's Shoe15}}
::::Just when anybody would really agree with ''me'', especially ''you'' Goomba's Shoe15? Hmph. Whatever. If that's the case, let's not do it until the time is right.--[[User:Prince Ludwig|Prince Ludwig]] 18:28, 12 July 2011 (EDT)

== Origin of Name ==
My guess is that the English name comes from the African-American spiritual "[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dem_Bones Dem Bones]," itself based on [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2037:1-14&version=MSG;CEV;CEB;NET;NRSV Ezekiel 7:1-14] from the Hebrew Bible, although in ''that'' tale, the bones regained their sinews, flesh, and skin, while the Mario enemy is a collection of disconnected bones held together by magic; the only reason I don't add this to the article is that I haven't found a source at or about Nintendo that said so. [[User:Julyo|Julyo]] ([[User talk:Julyo|talk]]) 00:56, 15 February 2013 (EST)

== Missing Paper Mario Infotrmation ==
This article is missing the Bestiary Info Boxes for Paper Mario, Paper Mario TTYD and Super Paper Mario. [[User:Hellmasterbg|Hellmasterbg]] ([[User talk:Hellmasterbg|talk]]) 02:04, 12 June 2014 (EDT)
:Sure you haven't checked [[List of Dry Bones profiles and statistics|here]]? {{User:Mario/sig}} 02:05, 12 June 2014 (EDT)

== Italics ==

Who in the WORLD redid the page in italics? [[Special:Contributions/98.16.11.4|98.16.11.4]] 21:51, 21 January 2015 (EST)

== Super Mario World ==

Is Mario World the only game which they throw bones? --[[Special:Contributions/78.248.232.59|78.248.232.59]] 13:13, 29 March 2016 (EDT)
:Your answer would be right in this article: they throw bones in ''Paper Mario'' games, ''Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time'', ''Super Princess Peach'', ''Mario Party DS'', and ''Mario Party 9''. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:39, 30 March 2016 (EDT)
::They also throw it in ''Super Mario Maker''. Only in ''Super Mario World'' style.--{{User:LudwigVon/sig}}  20:53, 30 March 2016 (EDT)

== Koopa or Koopa Troopa ==

Right now, the leading sentence calls Dry Bones "skeletal versions of Koopa Troopas," and they are listed as a subspecies on both [[Koopa Troopa]]'s page and [[Koopa (species)]] under the Koopa Troopa section. However, right now, the infobox labels their parent species [[Koopa]] and they're not listed on [[Template:Koopa Troopas]] (despite [[Koopa Paratroopa]]s being listed). So, which is it? Are they Koopas or Koopa Troopas? {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 21:32, 2 August 2017 (EDT)
:Both because Dry Bowser. Note the lack of Bony Beetle in the category, I was about to ask about that myself. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 20:43, 2 August 2017 (CT)
::For convenience's sake, let's set aside any subspecies or individual characters. If we were looking only at Dry Bones, would it be a Koopa or a Koopa Troopa? To me, the obvious answer is that Dry Bones are derived species of Koopa Troopas (never mind the oddity of a necromanced skeleton being called a species), but perhaps there's something obvious that I'm missing. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:13, 2 August 2017 (EDT)
:::It would be considered a Troopa, yes. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 21:14, 2 August 2017 (CT)

== MLSS - Dry Beans ==

{{talk}}
So before ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga''{{'}}s Boomerang Bros. were officially split from the "main" Boomerang Bros. in the game's remake, we had them split here. This will be important later on.<br>
In ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'', the "standard" Dry Bones appear in [[Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser]], while the original game's odd-looking shell-less ones appear in the main campaign. This indicates they may be intended as different things rather than just a regional variation; notably, the SS-designed ones match up with [[Troopea]]'s original design, though that connection is lost in the remake since Troopea now looks like a standard Koopa Troopa. The fact that they are named the same, unlike the renamed Boomerang Bros., presents an issue there. ''However'', it is worth noting that both the normal and the "BeanBean" Boomerang Bros. appear in Minion Quest, so they'd need some manner of differentiation for the troop list - and the BeanBean ones' Japanese name is literally just "Bean Boomerang Bros.," which to me indicates "Boomerang Bros. of the BeanBean Kingdom" (so more akin to the game's color variations between troops), though the English script made it the more punny "[[Beanerang Bro]]s" that fits more along the truncated "bean" names used by other BeanBean counterparts, like [[Troopea]] and [[Piranha Bean]] across languages (though admittedly, [[Lakipea]]'s Japanese name is also just "Bean Lakitu"). Dry Bones has no such issue, since only the "normal" ones appear. This leads to one of two possibilities I see for consistency:
#Merge Beanerang Bros. back to Boomerang Bros. and note them as a regional variation, or
#Split off the "BeanBean" version of Dry Bones.
Personally, I'd kinda prefer the former, as it's easier to keep track of, especially when you also throw in [[Spiny]] having a color difference between the main campaign's "BeanBean" ones and Minion Quest's "normal" ones, but otherwise identical appearances, and because unlike Lakipea and the others, it was originally treated as equivalent to the "normal" type. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:15, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
:I would not support merging Beanerang Bros with Boomerang Bros because of this case especially with both appearing together in Minion Quest. I'm not sure the Dry Bones had an established design when the original game released, most likely wasn't until the DS era when they did. The Dry Bones design in the original Super Mario RPG isn't very far off from this game's design either, and who knows why exactly the remake retained that design for the main game's Dry Bones. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 18:41, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
::This is the only time they were ever shown without a shell, and Boomerang Bros. also didn't have an established design by that point (the finalized design didn't appear until ''Mario Superstar Baseball''). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:45, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
:::Boomerang Bros. did have an established not-having-leaves-on-their-heads though. Sure, the game's designs for returning enemies are often a bit "off-model", but honestly, these guys almost feel more like the devs forgot a Boomerang-throwing Hammer Bro. enemy already existed. And your point about the Japanese name feels especially silly. ''Mame Jugem'', ''Mame Packun'', some names just lend themselves to portmanteaus more than others. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:09, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::I would be strongly against merging Beanerang Bro since they have a unique name. I can take Dry Bones or leave it, but it's not really a consistency issue as of the remake. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:49, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Per Waluigi Time. Yeah, i'm heavily against merging Beanerang Bros. I wouldn't be too opposed to splitting Dry Bones, but regardless of whether it gets split or stay merged, i'm still against merging Beanerang. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:55, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::::Might also be worth pointing out the Dry Bones don't have a bean sprout unlike other Beanbean Kingdom enemies. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:03, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Elite Dry Bones are also considered a variant of Troopea despite not having the sprout, though this is presumably because their shell is just an edit of Troopea's in the original game. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:51, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::::::::Wait, they are?? That doesn't make sense though. I mean, it's no surprise that they'd have similar sprites. They're both Koopa Troopas, similar body shapes, less work for the artists. That doesn't make one a variant of the other... [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)

Really, the complete lack of shell is why I think it should be considered equivalent to... whatever the sitch was with Boomerang Bros. in the original. If they'd also appeared in Minion Quest, they'd undoubtedly been renamed to match what they did with Boomerang Bros. And it makes sense the skeleton wouldn't have the sprout, plants typically don't have bones (and Bone Piranha Plants weren't a thing yet). In the original game, the Dries followed the same sprite rigging and idle/movement animations as the Troopea family. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:13, October 9, 2024 (EDT)

:They didn't rename the green Spinies though. Do you really think the only reason Beanerang got renamed is because of Minion Quest? Because that seems very unlikely. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
::Yes, I do, for the purpose of differentiating from the traditional Boomerang Bros. that also appear in the mode (since there's a compendium for troop types). Had they not appeared in the mode, odds are they'd have kept their previous name - just as Dry Bones did. The Spinies are palette swaps of each other, so they might have used "green Spiny" had they both appeared in that mode, similar to what they do with the different colored Troopas the mode has - and of course, Spiny ''already'' has a [[Sharpea|bean counterpart]] anyway. (Also, if I recall correctly, the BIS remake gives [[Fawful Guy]] subtly different colors between modes, though that one's likely a mistake since the modes store their sprites in different places. They probably just forgot to check them for consistency after altering one.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, October 9, 2024 (EDT)

The fact is, Beanerang Bros have officially been distinguished from Boomerang Bros more so as of the remake with a unique name, design and appearing alongside Boomerang Bros. Even if it's just for convenience from a developer point of view, the final game treats them as seperate subjects so we should to. I'm still not 100% sure about splitting the Dry Bones but it is currently the more favorable option out of the two and certainly what I'd lean on more to. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 13:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
:It probably is, though I'm generally cautious about splitting what is otherwise treated as a "regional variant" of the same thing, like the gray [[Cleft]]s in [[Boggly Woods]]. Though in that case, the color's the only difference. I guess it's mainly my background with ''Zelda''-splitting, where things are wildly inconsistent between games and even in the same games (notably Like Likes in ALttP and its GBA version), but ''Mario'' is rather more consistent with how it portrays subjects. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:06, October 9, 2024 (EDT)

I personally do not support lumping Boomerang Bean Bros. with Boomerang Bros. AlphaDream and Nintendo Co., Ltd. went out of their way to differentiate their design from the original game from NCL's standardized design in the remake in name and physiology, and they appear in the same mode. It is conveying that they do not want them to be seen as the same thing. It is not too dissimilar from deriving [[Bull's-Eye Bill]] from SMB3's red Bullet Bills, in my view.

For Dry Bones, we can discuss in the article that ''Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'' support two different designs for the enemy, but I think the burden is on NCL to publish a game with the design from ''Superstar Saga'' under a new name before I would support a split. Alternatively, maybe discrete Japanese and English names exist for both Dry Bones designs in the files for the ''Bowser's Minions'' mode in the event that the developer's wanted to use it there, that ''do'' establish it should be viewed as a different entity from Dry Bones. Otherwise I do not think the ''Superstar Saga'' iteration of the enemy should be split from normal Dry Bones. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)

: Plus there's the fact that Beanarang Bros were called Boomerang Bros in the original game in Japan too. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:36, October 13, 2024 (EDT)
: I don't see any particularly strong reason to split the two Dry Bones pages, especially if they don't have distinct names. Might as well make a separate page for the quadrupedal Koopa Troopas in Odyssey. – [[User:Boo Buddy Blocked|Boo Buddy Blocked]] ([[User talk:Boo Buddy Blocked|talk]]) 10:28, December 8, 2024 (EDT)
::That's a style thing since those only appeared in sprite segments. These coexist in the same world to a degree. Mainly, I see the MLSS as a rather clean Troopea derivative, which is awkward to categorize when they're listed together. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:02, January 4, 2025 (EST)

== Enemy counts - yay or nay? ==

{{talk}}
This page is one of the first to attempt to list all of the level appearances of a frequently recurring enemy, which was long overdue. Before this is carried over to other pages, I'd like to establish whether enemy counts are something worth including, as they are now. Having them arguably gives us more comprehensive coverage of the subject, but I have a few issues with their inclusion:
*The information feels somewhat superfluous for an enemy's page. Level appearances are likely something a reader would find of interest, but is knowing that there's eight Dry Bones in a particular level important to put here? Would this not be better handled by tables on the level pages themselves?
*By duplicating this information from level pages, we increase the potential for error. Ideally, our pages are already correct, but if something on a level page is inaccurate, an editor may not know to check an enemy's page to update that same information.
*It forces us to be less flexible in how we present information. I don't think we need as many bullet lists on this page as it currently has - for example, there's only three extra levels in SMA4 and three NSMBU challenges where Dry Bones appear. Those could easily be written in prose if we were just listing the levels, but including the enemy counts doesn't allow us to do that (without very clunky wording, anyway).
Thoughts? --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:20, February 27, 2025 (EST)

:In our opinion at least, unless the quantity of a given enemy is particularly unique (e.g. [[Piranha Plant#Super Mario World|it being rare]], or even [[Fire Nipper Plant|one-of-a-kind]]), it probably isn't worth it to mention enemy quantities on the enemy's article proper; it'd just be better to list the levels in prose. If we ''really'' must do this, we'd also like to suggest maybe a proper table over a bullet-pointed list, as the current look is... rather garish. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:27, February 27, 2025 (EST)

:I'm more invested in knowing what levels (or types of levels) an enemy occurs in, what gameplay function they serve in those levels, and whether they are generally common or rare within them. Some enemies are more abundant than others, or just restricted to particular sub-areas. Things like that are nice to know, and I think it helps me personally understand the subject better. I'm not sure knowing how many Dry Bones occurs specifically within specific levels helps me understand Dry Bones better than those other details I mention. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:33, February 27, 2025 (EST)

:i do not have an issue with how the information looks currently, but i do understand the "duplicated enemy number" issue, and agree that leaving the numbers off might be better. i think the space bullet lists take up help space out each entry, but swapping them for tables might end up being TOO big. the level appearances being separated into the bullet list also makes it easier to parse compared to plaintext. for everything else, per N101, as well as Camwoodstock's enemy quantity argument. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 17:48, February 27, 2025 (EST)