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| ::::::Might also be worth pointing out the Dry Bones don't have a bean sprout unlike other Beanbean Kingdom enemies. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:03, October 9, 2024 (EDT) | | ::::::Might also be worth pointing out the Dry Bones don't have a bean sprout unlike other Beanbean Kingdom enemies. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:03, October 9, 2024 (EDT) |
| :::::::Elite Dry Bones are also considered a variant of Troopea despite not having the sprout, though this is presumably because their shell is just an edit of Troopea's in the original game. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:51, October 9, 2024 (EDT) | | :::::::Elite Dry Bones are also considered a variant of Troopea despite not having the sprout, though this is presumably because their shell is just an edit of Troopea's in the original game. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:51, October 9, 2024 (EDT) |
| ::::::::Wait, they are?? That doesn't make sense though. I mean, it's no surprise that they'd have similar sprites. They're both Koopa Troopas, similar body shapes, less work for the artists. That doesn't make one a variant of the other... [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| Really, the complete lack of shell is why I think it should be considered equivalent to... whatever the sitch was with Boomerang Bros. in the original. If they'd also appeared in Minion Quest, they'd undoubtedly been renamed to match what they did with Boomerang Bros. And it makes sense the skeleton wouldn't have the sprout, plants typically don't have bones (and Bone Piranha Plants weren't a thing yet). In the original game, the Dries followed the same sprite rigging and idle/movement animations as the Troopea family. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:13, October 9, 2024 (EDT) | | Really, the complete lack of shell is why I think it should be considered equivalent to... whatever the sitch was with Boomerang Bros. in the original. If they'd also appeared in Minion Quest, they'd undoubtedly been renamed to match what they did with Boomerang Bros. And it makes sense the skeleton wouldn't have the sprout, plants typically don't have bones (and Bone Piranha Plants weren't a thing yet). In the original game, the Dries followed the same sprite rigging and idle/movement animations as the Troopea family. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:13, October 9, 2024 (EDT) |
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| :They didn't rename the green Spinies though. Do you really think the only reason Beanerang got renamed is because of Minion Quest? Because that seems very unlikely. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::Yes, I do, for the purpose of differentiating from the traditional Boomerang Bros. that also appear in the mode (since there's a compendium for troop types). Had they not appeared in the mode, odds are they'd have kept their previous name - just as Dry Bones did. The Spinies are palette swaps of each other, so they might have used "green Spiny" had they both appeared in that mode, similar to what they do with the different colored Troopas the mode has - and of course, Spiny ''already'' has a [[Sharpea|bean counterpart]] anyway. (Also, if I recall correctly, the BIS remake gives [[Fawful Guy]] subtly different colors between modes, though that one's likely a mistake since the modes store their sprites in different places. They probably just forgot to check them for consistency after altering one.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| The fact is, Beanerang Bros have officially been distinguished from Boomerang Bros more so as of the remake with a unique name, design and appearing alongside Boomerang Bros. Even if it's just for convenience from a developer point of view, the final game treats them as seperate subjects so we should to. I'm still not 100% sure about splitting the Dry Bones but it is currently the more favorable option out of the two and certainly what I'd lean on more to. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 13:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| :It probably is, though I'm generally cautious about splitting what is otherwise treated as a "regional variant" of the same thing, like the gray [[Cleft]]s in [[Boggly Woods]]. Though in that case, the color's the only difference. I guess it's mainly my background with ''Zelda''-splitting, where things are wildly inconsistent between games and even in the same games (notably Like Likes in ALttP and its GBA version), but ''Mario'' is rather more consistent with how it portrays subjects. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:06, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| I personally do not support lumping Boomerang Bean Bros. with Boomerang Bros. AlphaDream and Nintendo Co., Ltd. went out of their way to differentiate their design from the original game from NCL's standardized design in the remake in name and physiology, and they appear in the same mode. It is conveying that they do not want them to be seen as the same thing. It is not too dissimilar from deriving [[Bull's-Eye Bill]] from SMB3's red Bullet Bills, in my view.
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| For Dry Bones, we can discuss in the article that ''Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'' support two different designs for the enemy, but I think the burden is on NCL to publish a game with the design from ''Superstar Saga'' under a new name before I would support a split. Alternatively, maybe discrete Japanese and English names exist for both Dry Bones designs in the files for the ''Bowser's Minions'' mode in the event that the developer's wanted to use it there, that ''do'' establish it should be viewed as a different entity from Dry Bones. Otherwise I do not think the ''Superstar Saga'' iteration of the enemy should be split from normal Dry Bones. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| : Plus there's the fact that Beanarang Bros were called Boomerang Bros in the original game in Japan too. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:36, October 13, 2024 (EDT)
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| : I don't see any particularly strong reason to split the two Dry Bones pages, especially if they don't have distinct names. Might as well make a separate page for the quadrupedal Koopa Troopas in Odyssey. – [[User:Boo Buddy Blocked|Boo Buddy Blocked]] ([[User talk:Boo Buddy Blocked|talk]]) 10:28, December 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::That's a style thing since those only appeared in sprite segments. These coexist in the same world to a degree. Mainly, I see the MLSS as a rather clean Troopea derivative, which is awkward to categorize when they're listed together. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:02, January 4, 2025 (EST)
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| == Enemy counts - yay or nay? ==
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| This page is one of the first to attempt to list all of the level appearances of a frequently recurring enemy, which was long overdue. Before this is carried over to other pages, I'd like to establish whether enemy counts are something worth including, as they are now. Having them arguably gives us more comprehensive coverage of the subject, but I have a few issues with their inclusion:
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| *The information feels somewhat superfluous for an enemy's page. Level appearances are likely something a reader would find of interest, but is knowing that there's eight Dry Bones in a particular level important to put here? Would this not be better handled by tables on the level pages themselves?
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| *By duplicating this information from level pages, we increase the potential for error. Ideally, our pages are already correct, but if something on a level page is inaccurate, an editor may not know to check an enemy's page to update that same information.
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| *It forces us to be less flexible in how we present information. I don't think we need as many bullet lists on this page as it currently has - for example, there's only three extra levels in SMA4 and three NSMBU challenges where Dry Bones appear. Those could easily be written in prose if we were just listing the levels, but including the enemy counts doesn't allow us to do that (without very clunky wording, anyway).
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| Thoughts? --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 17:20, February 27, 2025 (EST)
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| :In our opinion at least, unless the quantity of a given enemy is particularly unique (e.g. [[Piranha Plant#Super Mario World|it being rare]], or even [[Fire Nipper Plant|one-of-a-kind]]), it probably isn't worth it to mention enemy quantities on the enemy's article proper; it'd just be better to list the levels in prose. If we ''really'' must do this, we'd also like to suggest maybe a proper table over a bullet-pointed list, as the current look is... rather garish. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 17:27, February 27, 2025 (EST)
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| :I'm more invested in knowing what levels (or types of levels) an enemy occurs in, what gameplay function they serve in those levels, and whether they are generally common or rare within them. Some enemies are more abundant than others, or just restricted to particular sub-areas. Things like that are nice to know, and I think it helps me personally understand the subject better. I'm not sure knowing how many Dry Bones occurs specifically within specific levels helps me understand Dry Bones better than those other details I mention. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 17:33, February 27, 2025 (EST)
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| :i do not have an issue with how the information looks currently, but i do understand the "duplicated enemy number" issue, and agree that leaving the numbers off might be better. i think the space bullet lists take up help space out each entry, but swapping them for tables might end up being TOO big. the level appearances being separated into the bullet list also makes it easier to parse compared to plaintext. for everything else, per N101, as well as Camwoodstock's enemy quantity argument. {{User:EvieMaybe/sig}} 17:48, February 27, 2025 (EST)
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