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| ::For convenience's sake, let's set aside any subspecies or individual characters. If we were looking only at Dry Bones, would it be a Koopa or a Koopa Troopa? To me, the obvious answer is that Dry Bones are derived species of Koopa Troopas (never mind the oddity of a necromanced skeleton being called a species), but perhaps there's something obvious that I'm missing. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:13, 2 August 2017 (EDT) | | ::For convenience's sake, let's set aside any subspecies or individual characters. If we were looking only at Dry Bones, would it be a Koopa or a Koopa Troopa? To me, the obvious answer is that Dry Bones are derived species of Koopa Troopas (never mind the oddity of a necromanced skeleton being called a species), but perhaps there's something obvious that I'm missing. {{User:Time Turner/sig}} 22:13, 2 August 2017 (EDT) |
| :::It would be considered a Troopa, yes. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 21:14, 2 August 2017 (CT) | | :::It would be considered a Troopa, yes. {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} 21:14, 2 August 2017 (CT) |
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| == MLSS - Dry Beans ==
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| {{talk}}
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| So before ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga''{{'}}s Boomerang Bros. were officially split from the "main" Boomerang Bros. in the game's remake, we had them split here. This will be important later on.<br>
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| In ''Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'', the "standard" Dry Bones appear in [[Minion Quest: The Search for Bowser]], while the original game's odd-looking shell-less ones appear in the main campaign. This indicates they may be intended as different things rather than just a regional variation; notably, the SS-designed ones match up with [[Troopea]]'s original design, though that connection is lost in the remake since Troopea now looks like a standard Koopa Troopa. The fact that they are named the same, unlike the renamed Boomerang Bros., presents an issue there. ''However'', it is worth noting that both the normal and the "BeanBean" Boomerang Bros. appear in Minion Quest, so they'd need some manner of differentiation for the troop list - and the BeanBean ones' Japanese name is literally just "Bean Boomerang Bros.," which to me indicates "Boomerang Bros. of the BeanBean Kingdom" (so more akin to the game's color variations between troops), though the English script made it the more punny "[[Beanerang Bro]]s" that fits more along the truncated "bean" names used by other BeanBean counterparts, like [[Troopea]] and [[Piranha Bean]] across languages (though admittedly, [[Lakipea]]'s Japanese name is also just "Bean Lakitu"). Dry Bones has no such issue, since only the "normal" ones appear. This leads to one of two possibilities I see for consistency:
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| #Merge Beanerang Bros. back to Boomerang Bros. and note them as a regional variation, or
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| #Split off the "BeanBean" version of Dry Bones.
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| Personally, I'd kinda prefer the former, as it's easier to keep track of, especially when you also throw in [[Spiny]] having a color difference between the main campaign's "BeanBean" ones and Minion Quest's "normal" ones, but otherwise identical appearances, and because unlike Lakipea and the others, it was originally treated as equivalent to the "normal" type. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:15, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :I would not support merging Beanerang Bros with Boomerang Bros because of this case especially with both appearing together in Minion Quest. I'm not sure the Dry Bones had an established design when the original game released, most likely wasn't until the DS era when they did. The Dry Bones design in the original Super Mario RPG isn't very far off from this game's design either, and who knows why exactly the remake retained that design for the main game's Dry Bones. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 18:41, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::This is the only time they were ever shown without a shell, and Boomerang Bros. also didn't have an established design by that point (the finalized design didn't appear until ''Mario Superstar Baseball''). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:45, October 8, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::Boomerang Bros. did have an established not-having-leaves-on-their-heads though. Sure, the game's designs for returning enemies are often a bit "off-model", but honestly, these guys almost feel more like the devs forgot a Boomerang-throwing Hammer Bro. enemy already existed. And your point about the Japanese name feels especially silly. ''Mame Jugem'', ''Mame Packun'', some names just lend themselves to portmanteaus more than others. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 07:09, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::I would be strongly against merging Beanerang Bro since they have a unique name. I can take Dry Bones or leave it, but it's not really a consistency issue as of the remake. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 11:49, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::Per Waluigi Time. Yeah, i'm heavily against merging Beanerang Bros. I wouldn't be too opposed to splitting Dry Bones, but regardless of whether it gets split or stay merged, i'm still against merging Beanerang. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:55, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::::Might also be worth pointing out the Dry Bones don't have a bean sprout unlike other Beanbean Kingdom enemies. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 12:03, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| :::::::Elite Dry Bones are also considered a variant of Troopea despite not having the sprout, though this is presumably because their shell is just an edit of Troopea's in the original game. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:51, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Wait, they are?? That doesn't make sense though. I mean, it's no surprise that they'd have similar sprites. They're both Koopa Troopas, similar body shapes, less work for the artists. That doesn't make one a variant of the other... [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| Really, the complete lack of shell is why I think it should be considered equivalent to... whatever the sitch was with Boomerang Bros. in the original. If they'd also appeared in Minion Quest, they'd undoubtedly been renamed to match what they did with Boomerang Bros. And it makes sense the skeleton wouldn't have the sprout, plants typically don't have bones (and Bone Piranha Plants weren't a thing yet). In the original game, the Dries followed the same sprite rigging and idle/movement animations as the Troopea family. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:13, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| :They didn't rename the green Spinies though. Do you really think the only reason Beanerang got renamed is because of Minion Quest? Because that seems very unlikely. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:24, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| ::Yes, I do, for the purpose of differentiating from the traditional Boomerang Bros. that also appear in the mode (since there's a compendium for troop types). Had they not appeared in the mode, odds are they'd have kept their previous name - just as Dry Bones did. The Spinies are palette swaps of each other, so they might have used "green Spiny" had they both appeared in that mode, similar to what they do with the different colored Troopas the mode has - and of course, Spiny ''already'' has a [[Sharpea|bean counterpart]] anyway. (Also, if I recall correctly, the BIS remake gives [[Fawful Guy]] subtly different colors between modes, though that one's likely a mistake since the modes store their sprites in different places. They probably just forgot to check them for consistency after altering one.) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:27, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| The fact is, Beanerang Bros have officially been distinguished from Boomerang Bros more so as of the remake with a unique name, design and appearing alongside Boomerang Bros. Even if it's just for convenience from a developer point of view, the final game treats them as seperate subjects so we should to. I'm still not 100% sure about splitting the Dry Bones but it is currently the more favorable option out of the two and certainly what I'd lean on more to. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 13:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| :It probably is, though I'm generally cautious about splitting what is otherwise treated as a "regional variant" of the same thing, like the gray [[Cleft]]s in [[Boggly Woods]]. Though in that case, the color's the only difference. I guess it's mainly my background with ''Zelda''-splitting, where things are wildly inconsistent between games and even in the same games (notably Like Likes in ALttP and its GBA version), but ''Mario'' is rather more consistent with how it portrays subjects. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:06, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| I personally do not support lumping Boomerang Bean Bros. with Boomerang Bros. AlphaDream and Nintendo Co., Ltd. went out of their way to differentiate their design from the original game from NCL's standardized design in the remake in name and physiology, and they appear in the same mode. It is conveying that they do not want them to be seen as the same thing. It is not too dissimilar from deriving [[Bull's-Eye Bill]] from SMB3's red Bullet Bills, in my view.
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| For Dry Bones, we can discuss in the article that ''Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions'' support two different designs for the enemy, but I think the burden is on NCL to publish a game with the design from ''Superstar Saga'' under a new name before I would support a split. Alternatively, maybe discrete Japanese and English names exist for both Dry Bones designs in the files for the ''Bowser's Minions'' mode in the event that the developer's wanted to use it there, that ''do'' establish it should be viewed as a different entity from Dry Bones. Otherwise I do not think the ''Superstar Saga'' iteration of the enemy should be split from normal Dry Bones. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 14:59, October 9, 2024 (EDT)
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| : Plus there's the fact that Beanarang Bros were called Boomerang Bros in the original game in Japan too. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:36, October 13, 2024 (EDT)
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