Editing Talk:Drill Bros.

==Baby Drill or Drill Bros.?==
In [[Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time|Partners in Time]], the move was called Baby Drill. In [[Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story|Bowser's Inside Story]], it was called Drill Bros. The article is called Baby Drill. However, Baby Drill does not work at all for the move in Inside Story, but Drill Bros. would be acceptable for both. That, and Drill Bros. is the most recent name, so I think that means it should be the article title. Should I move the page?<br>
{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 11:09, 8 November 2016 (EST)
:I'd say move it, but let's wait and see what others have to say. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:24, 8 November 2016 (EST)
::Drill Bros. No question about it. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 11:30, 8 November 2016 (EST)

:::Per everyone.

:::{{User:Shokora/sig}} 11:31, 8 November 2016 (EST)
::::Drill Bros; the babies only appear in one M&L Game. {{User:The RPG Gamer/sig}} 13:03, 8 November 2016 (EST)

After looking over it, this just needs a move and all the links to here changed. Baby Drill is a legit name, but not the most modern. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 13:22, 8 November 2016 (EST)

:Looks like it's been decided. I'll go ahead and move the page.
:{{User:Ultimate Mr. L/sig}} 14:05, 8 November 2016 (EST)

==Reorganize the Mario & Luigi drilling moves==
{{TPP}}
Every Mario & Luigi game has had some sort of drilling move; Luigi Dunk in Superstar Saga, Baby Drill in Partners in Time, Drill Bros. in Bowser's Inside Story, Mole Mario in Dream Team, and finally Trio Drill in Paper Jam. Currently, the way we handle these is a bit weird. All of them are split into their own pages, with the exception of Baby Drill (Partners in Time) and Drill Bros. (Bowser's Inside Story) which share this page.

Looking over the moves, they are all functionally identical. Luigi Dunk is the only one with any sort of unique characteristic, which is the ability to turn Luigi into a surfboard. Otherwise, the only differences are the name, how the drill is performed, and who does it. We already know from precedent that name alone is not grounds for a split, and moves also don't get split just because multiple characters can use them. That leaves only how the drill is performed; Either the Bros. stack on top of each other and drill into the ground together (Baby Drill/Drill Bros./Trio Drill), or one of the Bros. hammers the other into the ground (Luigi Dunk/Mole Mario). I don't necessarily think that's grounds for a split either.

From here, I've come up with four possible options that we can go with:
#All drilling moves are merged into one page. Luigi Dunk, Mole Mario, and Trio Drill are merged into Drill Bros.
#Don't merge any pages, and split Baby Drill for consistency with the other moves.
#Only the moves that are identical in performance are merged. Trio Drill is merged into Drill Bros., and Luigi Dunk and Mole Mario are merged together into their own page separate from Drill Bros.
#Do nothing. I don't recommend this because it obviously doesn't solve any of the consistency issues we have in the current situation.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Waluigi Time}}<br>
'''Deadline''': <del>January 5, 2020, 23:59 GMT</del> Relisted to January 12, 2020, 23:59 GMT

===Option 1: Merge all moves to Drill Bros.===
#{{User|TheDarkStar}} - Per proposal and [[MarioWiki talk:New articles|this discussion]].
<s>#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal.</s>

===Option 2: Split Baby Drill===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} My second choice. I don't necessarily want this, but if we're not going to merge them, we might as well do this.
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} This is by far a better option. Luigi Dunk and Mole Mario work differently from Baby Drill and Drill Bros., and Trio Drill works differently from all four of the other variations. Plus [[Talk:Whirly Gate#Merge with Transformation Door|this is similar to a proposal that I started that didn't gain a single support vote]].
#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.

===Option 3: Merge into two separate pages===
#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) It just doesn't seem right to merge moves that despite having the same function are still two separate things, reminding me of punch in SM64 and spin in the SMG games; at the same time, splitting each comes off as a tad superfluous to me at this current juncture, like punching in SM64 and the "Wario Whack" in SM64DS.
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Second option. See comments. Names should be the most recent names: Luigi Dunk (because of M&L:SS+BM) and Drill Bros. (because of M&L:BIS+BJJ)
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} After giving it some thought, I now believe this is the best option.

===Option 4: Do nothing===
#{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Preferred option. See comments.
<s>#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per Yoshi the SSM. I see no reason to change anything at all. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:19, December 30, 2019 (EST)</s>

===Comments===
This is here to explain my voting. I believe Baby Drill is too similar to Drill Bros. to warrant a split. Why? Because the only difference between the two are age of the Mario Bros. So what about the others. Well, Luigi Dunk and Mario Mole have one character spliting from the other, while Baby Drill, Drill Bros., and Trio Drill do not have this. So that should warrant a split of at least these two things. But I decided to look at the moves a little deeper. What else is different. Well, for Luigi Dunk and Mario Mole, although they are created by the same method, it should be noted that Mini-Mario can also be created using the same method as Mario Mole. The only thing that determines what you get in M&L:DT is the surface below Mario. Luigi Dunk, on the other hand, doesn't allow the second Bro. hammer move when on these hard surfaces. And the Mini-Mario move is also done separately in M&L:SS(+BM). But is this really enough to warrant a split between them? Maybe if the Trio Drill can be separated from Drill Bros. And so, I looked at that. And there is one thing that helps out this one: the ability to break rocks using the Y button. Otherwise there is nothing else. But I think that does warrant a split between it and Drill Bros. However, I still voted for option 3 because these are still minor differences and they are more minor then the separating of characters, which is a big deal in my opinion.

Wait. What about splitting the Baby Drill by this basis since they split the babies from the adults? While that's true, they don't split the baby Bros. apart. And that's what makes it so similar to the Drill Bros. And only the babies can use hammers in M&L:PIT. So only their age really separates the two. Which can't be really be a proper support since (a) they are still the same characters and (b) that is way too minor. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:43, December 23, 2019 (EST)
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 ==Reorganize the Mario & Luigi drilling moves==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|1-3-5-1|Merge into two separate pages}}
 Every Mario & Luigi game has had some sort of drilling move; Luigi Dunk in Superstar Saga, Baby Drill in Partners in Time, Drill Bros. in Bowser's Inside Story, Mole Mario in Dream Team, and finally Trio Drill in Paper Jam. Currently, the way we handle these is a bit weird. All of them are split into their own pages, with the exception of Baby Drill (Partners in Time) and Drill Bros. (Bowser's Inside Story) which share this page.
@@ Line 44: / Line 43: @@
 #{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Second option. See comments. Names should be the most recent names: Luigi Dunk (because of M&L:SS+BM) and Drill Bros. (because of M&L:BIS+BJJ)
 #{{User|Waluigi Time}} After giving it some thought, I now believe this is the best option.
-#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} - Per Yoshi the SSM. Luigi Dunk and Mario Mole are just the same move with different characters; they should be merged. I think Baby Drill and Drill Bros. should stay merged, but Trio Drill should probably be split.
-#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
 ===Option 4: Do nothing===
@@ Line 55: / Line 52: @@
 Wait. What about splitting the Baby Drill by this basis since they split the babies from the adults? While that's true, they don't split the baby Bros. apart. And that's what makes it so similar to the Drill Bros. And only the babies can use hammers in M&L:PIT. So only their age really separates the two. Which can't be really be a proper support since (a) they are still the same characters and (b) that is way too minor. {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 16:43, December 23, 2019 (EST)
-== Re-split Trio Drill from this article ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|no quorum|1-0}}
-Just like with [[Baby Cakes]] and [[Mini-Mario]], these are two moves with similar purposes but very different mechanics. Whereas Drill Bros. simply allows Mario and Luigi to burrow into the ground and resurface to unearth drill spots, Trio Drill automatically allows unearthing of any drill spot passed, and, more to the point, has a charge dash that allows the Mario trio to zip across one direction in a split second, which can allow them to move up walls in a similar vein to the [[Spike ball (move)|spike ball]] move from ''Bowser's Inside Story''. I guess having one article combining Baby Drill/Drill Bros. is fine, though let's not forget that no-one specifically said anything about supporting the merge of Trio Drill with this article.
-'''Proposer:''' {{User|Archivist Toadette}}<br>
-'''Deadline:''' January 25, 2021, 23:59 GMT
-===Support===
-#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per proposal.
-===Oppose===
-===Comments===
-== Re-split Trio Drill from this article (redux) ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|6-0|split}}
-I proposed this a while back, but didn't get a single response, so I'll be proposing this again. See my reasoning above; while Dunk Hammer is to Mole Mario as Baby Drill is to Drill Bros., Trio Drill is the outlier here. I propose that it be split once more.
-'''Proposer:''' {{User|Archivist Toadette}}<br>
-'''Deadline:''' June 21, 2021, 23:59 GMT
-===Support===
-#{{User|Archivist Toadette}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Keyblade Master}} The exclusive mechanics this has from the other two are significant enough.
-#{{User|7feetunder}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Per all.
-#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}} Per all.
-#{{User|The Mansion}} Per all.
-===Oppose===
-===Comments===