Editing Talk:Donkey Kong (game)
From the Super Mario Wiki, the Mario encyclopedia
Jump to navigationJump to search
The edit can be undone. Please check the comparison below to verify that this is what you want to do, and then publish the changes below to finish undoing the edit.
| Latest revision | Your text | ||
| Line 39: | Line 39: | ||
== Featured Status == | == Featured Status == | ||
This article looks like its ready be nominated for a featured article. Any suggestions to improve it first? <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User talk:Yoshario|Y]]'''oshario'''</font></span>[[ | This article looks like its ready be nominated for a featured article. Any suggestions to improve it first? <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User talk:Yoshario|Y]]'''oshario'''</font></span>[[Image:Yoshi_wearing_mario's hat.jpg|30px]] | ||
:Well, it should probably look more like this first: [[:wikipedia:Donkey Kong (video game)|''Donkey Kong'']]. -- {{User|Son of Suns}} | :Well, it should probably look more like this first: [[:wikipedia:Donkey Kong (video game)|''Donkey Kong'']]. -- {{User|Son of Suns}} | ||
| Line 86: | Line 86: | ||
== "Jumpman" == | == "Jumpman" == | ||
{{talk}} | |||
While this name is oft-referenced, from what I've gathered, this was never the name that was told to the public. The name was, in regards to this game, only used in an American cabinet installation manual for arcade owners, and as such, only said owners and their employees would ever see the name. By the time actual flyers meant for the public came out, he was already Mario. Meaning he was always Mario to the players. Repeatedly saying "Jumpman" like this article does is horribly misleading, as it's led to erroneous things like the ''Mario Bros.'' page once saying that it was the first game to have that be his name. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:42, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | While this name is oft-referenced, from what I've gathered, this was never the name that was told to the public. The name was, in regards to this game, only used in an American cabinet installation manual for arcade owners, and as such, only said owners and their employees would ever see the name. By the time actual flyers meant for the public came out, he was already Mario. Meaning he was always Mario to the players. Repeatedly saying "Jumpman" like this article does is horribly misleading, as it's led to erroneous things like the ''Mario Bros.'' page once saying that it was the first game to have that be his name. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:42, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
:I thought ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'' was the first game to call Mario "Mario". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:45, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | :I thought ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'' was the first game to call Mario "Mario". {{User:Alex95/sig}} 16:45, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::Nope, it's this game here. The instruction flyers handed out to patrons of arcades called him Mario. Not to mention the ports (including the G&W game...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:49, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ::Nope, it's this game here. The instruction flyers handed out to patrons of arcades called him Mario. Not to mention the ports (including the G&W game...) [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:49, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::[https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf This] is where it's from. Please note the name is used a grand total of three times in it (always in reference to extra lives, having the grammatically nonsensical phrasing of "number of jumpman," while the rest is schematics, which would be of no interest or business to most of the patrons. The public first got background information in English {{ | ::[https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf This] is where it's from. Please note the name is used a grand total of three times in it (always in reference to extra lives, having the grammatically nonsensical phrasing of "number of jumpman," while the rest is schematics, which would be of no interest or business to most of the patrons. The public first got background information in English {{media link|Donkeykongflier.jpg|here}}, where he is consistently called "little Mario." And of course, "jumpman" was never used in Japanese at all. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 20:29, 19 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::OK, Glowsquid showed me that it was additionally found on [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn the marquee card] that came with some cabinets, so that's definitely something relevant. However, we still need to take out all claims on the wiki that he was renamed for later games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ::OK, Glowsquid showed me that it was additionally found on [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn the marquee card] that came with some cabinets, so that's definitely something relevant. However, we still need to take out all claims on the wiki that he was renamed for later games. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:34, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
:::By the way, Mario is also referred to as "Jumpman" in [https://youtu.be/KumJPLR_wb8?t=54 the manual of ''Arcade Archives Donkey Kong''].<br>--[[User:PhGuy12|PhGuy12]] ([[User talk:PhGuy12|talk]]) 15:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | :::By the way, Mario is also referred to as "Jumpman" in [https://youtu.be/KumJPLR_wb8?t=54 the manual of ''Arcade Archives Donkey Kong''].<br>--[[User:PhGuy12|PhGuy12]] ([[User talk:PhGuy12|talk]]) 15:27, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
::::Yeah, but Nintendo has commonly acted as though that was his only name at the time, despite that not being the case. They've probably gone down the whole "look online for own company history" rabbit hole. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:30, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ::::Yeah, but Nintendo has commonly acted as though that was his only name at the time, despite that not being the case. They've probably gone down the whole "look online for own company history" rabbit hole. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:30, 22 October 2018 (EDT) | ||
The article prioritizes the original arcade version, mentioning that Jumpman was first rebranded as Mario in [[:File: | The article prioritizes the original arcade version, mentioning that Jumpman was first rebranded as Mario in [[:File:Donkeykongflier.jpg|that specific promotional flyer]] by Nintendo of America (and its [[:File:Donkey Kong - Flyer FR.jpg|translation]]). In addition to the [https://www.arcade-museum.com/manuals-videogames/D/dk-tkg4u.pdf operation manual] and [https://imgur.com/GgGz1gn marquee card,] you can see Jumpman is still present in most other arcade materials such as an instruction [[:File:Donkey Kong - Instruction Page.jpg|page]] and [[:File:Donkey Kong - Instruction Banner.jpg|banner]], which I imagine most players would have been more immediately aware of when physically playing the game. The idea that Jumpman was never used in Japanese is also false - while we don't currently have pictures of the Japanese version explicitly showing ジャンプマン (although I'm fairly certain I've casually come across scans online somewhere), [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnu-EqVGRow&t=2m15s Don James confirmed it.] You may be thinking of when the names Ossan and then Mr. Video were tossed around when Shigeru Miyamoto was [https://web.archive.org/web/20101009201546/http://us.wii.com/iwata_asks/mario25th/vol2_page4.jsp initially] designing the character, but they never ended up in any released materials. Basically, the reason why ''Arcade Archives'' version uses Jumpman is to be as authentic to the 1981 experience as possible since Mario only overtook Jumpman in home ports the following years. So I disagree with calling this an [[List of rumors and urban legends about Mario#The usage of the name .22Jumpman.22|urban legend]] because I don't believe the article was misleading (if the ''Mario Bros.'' game page claimed that it was the first in-game reference of the name Mario, it should've been corrected a long time ago since that honor belongs to ''[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmOJN-zq6yg&t=7s Donkey Kong Junior]''). In anything, the real story should be the name of Lady / the lady, which the PAL version of ''Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS'' / ''Wii U'' claimed was originally her name in Japan when the name Pauline didn't actually appear in game material until the western NES port and then for Game Boy ''Donkey Kong'' in Japan (oddly enough, it seems it was first used in ''Saturday Supercade''). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:50, 19 November 2018 (EST) | ||
:Except as I said before, players would not be familiar with the operation manual, as it was a collection of schematics intended for employers and employees only, with the name, once again, only being used in reference to the life counter. The marquee is the ''only'' area that "Jumpman" was shown to the public at the time, and it wasn't even on all machines. And you're also forgetting the fact that the G&W game's manual additionally calls him Mario, and that seems to have come before DKJr, if my ordering of the Donkey Kong gallery based on release date is any indication. As for the "why would it not have gone corrected," it was ''ages'' until Luigi's article finally acknowledged that the G&W ''Mario Bros.'' was released before the arcade game of the same name. Now that Japanese thing sounds interesting; have a source that isn't a video, so I can look at it easier? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:51, 19 November 2018 (EST) | :Except as I said before, players would not be familiar with the operation manual, as it was a collection of schematics intended for employers and employees only, with the name, once again, only being used in reference to the life counter. The marquee is the ''only'' area that "Jumpman" was shown to the public at the time, and it wasn't even on all machines. And you're also forgetting the fact that the G&W game's manual additionally calls him Mario, and that seems to have come before DKJr, if my ordering of the Donkey Kong gallery based on release date is any indication. As for the "why would it not have gone corrected," it was ''ages'' until Luigi's article finally acknowledged that the G&W ''Mario Bros.'' was released before the arcade game of the same name. Now that Japanese thing sounds interesting; have a source that isn't a video, so I can look at it easier? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:51, 19 November 2018 (EST) | ||
::So here's something interesting: the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ddo_WVKCd8&t=33s Japanese release] of ''Arcade Archives: Donkey Kong'' doesn't refer to Mario as Jumpman, but rather プレイヤー (Player). I could ''swear'' I've seen a Japanese flyer with ジャンプマン (Jumpman) on it, though I'm not having any luck finding it right now. I also checked [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0#%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC Japanese Wikipedia] and they state with references that Mario's name is "Player" in the Japanese version and "Jumpman" in western releases. So it looks like I was mistaken and Mario was unnamed in Japanese release materials, but Nintendo of America received the development name Jumpman before being asked to make it more marketable later (which would explain why the Japanese version of the Game & Watch game called him "Kyūjo Man"). So unless we can prove otherwise, I'd be okay with flipping Mario and Jumpman around. Still, I think we're underselling how the Jumpman name became known since it seems to be the localized flyer calling him Mario and everything else arcade calling him Jumpman. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:00, 19 November 2018 (EST) | ::So here's something interesting: the [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ddo_WVKCd8&t=33s Japanese release] of ''Arcade Archives: Donkey Kong'' doesn't refer to Mario as Jumpman, but rather プレイヤー (Player). I could ''swear'' I've seen a Japanese flyer with ジャンプマン (Jumpman) on it, though I'm not having any luck finding it right now. I also checked [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0#%E3%82%AD%E3%83%A3%E3%83%A9%E3%82%AF%E3%82%BF%E3%83%BC Japanese Wikipedia] and they state with references that Mario's name is "Player" in the Japanese version and "Jumpman" in western releases. So it looks like I was mistaken and Mario was unnamed in Japanese release materials, but Nintendo of America received the development name Jumpman before being asked to make it more marketable later (which would explain why the Japanese version of the Game & Watch game called him "Kyūjo Man"). So unless we can prove otherwise, I'd be okay with flipping Mario and Jumpman around. Still, I think we're underselling how the Jumpman name became known since it seems to be the localized flyer calling him Mario and everything else arcade calling him Jumpman. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:00, 19 November 2018 (EST) | ||
== Requesting sprite of a rivet == | == Requesting sprite of a rivet == | ||
A sprite of a [[rivet]], preferably from the arcade version should be uploaded and added to the items section.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 07:13, 19 November 2018 (EST) | A sprite of a [[rivet]], preferably from the arcade version should be uploaded and added to the items section.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 07:13, 19 November 2018 (EST) | ||
