Editing Talk:Dinosaur

Its common knowlege to know what a dinosaur is but what if someone wants the history and other facts and how they fit into the marioverse.{{user:theused/sig}}

While I agree that a category would be better suited for this information, the category should be created before the article is deleted. This way, we can make sure everything is right where it should be. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 17:04, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
:[[:Category:Dinosaurs|Err....]] {{User:Stooben Rooben/sig}} 17:07, 1 June 2008 (EDT)
::Your mother. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 18:16, 2 June 2008 (EDT)

where's movie info? [[User:Lu-igi board|Lu-igi board]] 12:27, 5 May 2009 (EDT)

== Clean up this page ==

{{SettledTPP}}
{{ProposalOutcome|vetoed|Current state of the proposal shows this would be better handled through a quick discussion. The proposed clean-up can be enacted immediately, but the proposed split can be saved for another proposal.}}

It's a generic subject. With a list of notable characters and species. And an [[:Category:Dinosaurs|accompanying category]]. Yeah. Literally the only subjects here that are non-generic are the humanoid dinos appearing in the ''[[Super Mario Bros. (film)|Super Mario Bros.]]'' film, the dinosaur partners of the [[T-Rex (character)|T-Rex]] appearing in the ''[[Super Mario World (television series)|Super Mario World]]'' TV series, and the apatosaur from [[Dino Dino Jungle]], but other than that, there's nothing here that can't be covered elsewhere, such as [[T-Rex]], [[Pterodactyl]], [[Triceratops]], and many more. This page should just be changed to a disambiguation page including only the non-generic appearances I mentioned, since the rest serves <del>no real purpose</del> a purpose already achieved by the category I mentioned above. Additionally, since the three non-generic species I mentioned are drastically different, they should be split out into {{fake link|Dinosaur (film species)}} and {{fake link|Dinosaur (''Super Mario World'' television series)}}, and {{fake link|Apatosaur}}.

'''Proposer:''' {{user|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' August 26, 2018, 23:59 GMT<br>
'''Date Withdrawn:''' August 19, 2018, 13:50 GMT

===Support===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|YoshiEgg1990}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Bazooka Mario}} I don't think a proposal is required for this at all. Fire up a talk page discussion questioning the quality of the article, then make the changes, rather than waiting 2 weeks. As this article is poorly made, I don't think you'll get contentious debate on improving the quality.
#{{User|Shiny K-Troopa}} Per proposal.
#{{User|rollerC}} Per Bazooka Mario and proposal.

===Oppose===
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Several non-specific examples with roles were in the SMW cartoon. In fact, many examples lumped in on the [[Rex]] page don't seem as Rex-like as the ones in ''Send in the Clown''. Then, there are the obstacle ones from Dino Dino Jungle, which reappear in ''Mario Party 8''.
#{{user|Mario jc}} You're proposing to include "only the non-generic appearances [you] mentioned," but you and the support are forgetting the ones mentioned in the comments which still have some significance in their respective appearances, most notably the dinosaurs in Dino Dino Jungle.

===Comments===
I think perhaps this article could stay, but covering only the information from the film. The rest is generic and can be explained on other pages. --{{User:Waluigi Time/sig}} 22:39, 11 August 2018 (EDT)
:@Waluigi Time: Good point. I've changed up the proposal. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 22:57, 11 August 2018 (EDT)
::Add other meaningful generic appearances, like the SMW cartoon and Dino Dino Jungle, and I'll bite. I wouldn't consider those to be "generic subjects" as they have plot and gameplay purposes, respectively. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:42, 12 August 2018 (EDT)
:::I agree with Doc. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 22:09, 12 August 2018 (EDT)
::There were more in the cartoon than just the T-Rex's partners, there was at least a fire-breathing thingy at the start of [[Party Line]], and dinosaurs tended to help the cave people in ''Flintstones''-esque ways, if I recall correctly. And once again, the big sauropod obstacles of Dino Dino Jungle. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:23, 16 August 2018 (EDT)
:::Additionally, non-human non-Goomba non-Yoshi dinos appeared in the film; aside from the weirdly-animated opening, several small theropods are seen eating the fungus in at least one scene. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:07, 16 August 2018 (EDT)
::::Uh, the apatosaur from Dino Dino Jungle I can add in, but I think your next mention is much too generic. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 08:44, 17 August 2018 (EDT)
:::::Not them specifically, but mention the "dinosaurs in general" relative to the film, as the fact that that whole world was of saurian-descended creatures is a main factor of the plot. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:38, 17 August 2018 (EDT)

Mario jc: hence why setting up a proposal is inappropriate as opposed to starting a talk page discussion, especially when the proposal is vaguely titled (not to mention, it makes future referral more difficult). A discussion can quickly adapt to new provisions and information and reach toward a consensus more efficiently. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 18:42, 17 August 2018 (EDT)

== Page for Noshi? ==
It turns out that the dinosaur of Dino Dino Jungle has an own name, ''Noshi'' (technically, ''Nosshī''), {{media link|DKTT.png|since it appears in ''Mario Party 8'' as well}}, should it be given its own page?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:41, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
:I'd support it. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:56, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
::I'd make the page, but I have one last question: considering how we deal with the ''Yoshi'', ''Doshi'' and ''Neshi'' names in the Yoshi and Dorrie page, should we name this character ''Noshi'' as well or should we be stricter in the Hepburn Romanization and use ''Nosshī''?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:43, July 18, 2019 (EDT)
:::Depends on the policy and/or filename. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 09:45, July 18, 2019 (EDT)
::::I don't have access to the filenames of ''Mario Kart: Double Dash!!'', ''Mario Party 8'' and ''Mario Kart 7'', so for now I'll just use the guide name using Hepburn Romanization. By the way, in case you were wondering, the Nintendo Power guide of ''Mario Kart: Double Dash!!'' doesn't name it and the Prima guide of ''Mario Kart 7'' calls it ''dinosaur'' with lowercase ''d''. Effectively, this lack of an own name in the English guides was the likely reason why didn't think of it as an actual character, this also means that we'll use the only proper name it has so far, so the Japanese one.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 10:28, July 18, 2019 (EDT)
:::::Well, [[Nossie|the page has been created]], so the discussion about the name has been moved there.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 07:44, July 19, 2019 (EDT)

== Send this article back to the Cretaceous period ==
{{TPP}}
I'd like to revisit this with a fresher mindset in light of the [[Talk:Nossie|changes]] since the last proposal.

I pointed out three things the article generically covered during the last proposal above: '''the humanoid dinos in the ''[[Super Mario Bros. (film)|Super Mario Bros.]]'' film''', which as of now are already covered at [[Dinohattanite]], '''the Apatosaurus in [[Dino Dino Jungle]] and elsewhere''', which as of now is already covered at [[Nossie]], and '''the dinosaurs from the ''[[Super Mario World (television series)|Super Mario World]]'' cartoon''', of which the case I make here will be detailed in the next few sentences.

All in all, I'd say the biggest point of contention is the ''Super Mario World'' case; I already contacted {{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} about it, and even she isn't sure herself. Therefore, I'd say there's currently no consensus for or against creating an article on those specific dinosaurs, and that's a discussion independent of this proposal.

I think it's about time we just delete this article, with prejudice to potentially create an article on the aforementioned dinosaurs as dictated in a separate discussion.

'''Proposer:''' {{User|Toadette the Achiever}}<br>
'''Deadline:''' October 24, 2019, 23:59 GMT

===Bury this article in the Chicxulub crater impact===
#{{User|Toadette the Achiever}} Per proposal.
#{{User|Power Flotzo}} Definitely fails policy. Per Toadette.

===Save it from extinction===
#{{User|TheDarkStar}}: If splitting the SMW dinos necessitates a discussion, do that ''before'' starting a proposal to delete the page.
#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}}: Per Dark Star.

===Comments===
Why does this proposal even exist? The SMW dinos aren't covered anywhere else, and there hasn't been ''any'' consensus over whether to split them into their own pages. If the proposal were to pass and delete this, where would the info on the SMW dinos go? {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 15:25, October 12, 2019 (EDT)
@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
-==common knowledge==
 Its common knowlege to know what a dinosaur is but what if someone wants the history and other facts and how they fit into the marioverse.{{user:theused/sig}}
@@ Line 6: / Line 5: @@
 ::Your mother. -- [[Image:Shyghost.PNG]][[User:Ghost Jam|Chris]][[Image:Shyghost.PNG]] 18:16, 2 June 2008 (EDT)
-==movie info?==
 where's movie info? [[User:Lu-igi board|Lu-igi board]] 12:27, 5 May 2009 (EDT)
 == Clean up this page ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{SettledTPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|vetoed|Current state of the proposal shows this would be better handled through a quick discussion. The proposed clean-up can be enacted immediately, but the proposed split can be saved for another proposal.}}
+{{ProposalOutcome|vetoed|Current state of the proposal shows this would be better handled through a quick discussion. The proposed clean-up can be enacted immediately, but the proposed split can be saved for another proposal.}}
 It's a generic subject. With a list of notable characters and species. And an [[:Category:Dinosaurs|accompanying category]]. Yeah. Literally the only subjects here that are non-generic are the humanoid dinos appearing in the ''[[Super Mario Bros. (film)|Super Mario Bros.]]'' film, the dinosaur partners of the [[T-Rex (character)|T-Rex]] appearing in the ''[[Super Mario World (television series)|Super Mario World]]'' TV series, and the apatosaur from [[Dino Dino Jungle]], but other than that, there's nothing here that can't be covered elsewhere, such as [[T-Rex]], [[Pterodactyl]], [[Triceratops]], and many more. This page should just be changed to a disambiguation page including only the non-generic appearances I mentioned, since the rest serves <del>no real purpose</del> a purpose already achieved by the category I mentioned above. Additionally, since the three non-generic species I mentioned are drastically different, they should be split out into {{fake link|Dinosaur (film species)}} and {{fake link|Dinosaur (''Super Mario World'' television series)}}, and {{fake link|Apatosaur}}.
@@ Line 45: / Line 43: @@
 == Page for Noshi? ==
-It turns out that the dinosaur of Dino Dino Jungle has an own name, ''Noshi'' (technically, ''Nosshī''), {{file link|DKTT.png|since it appears in ''Mario Party 8'' as well}}, should it be given its own page?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:41, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
+It turns out that the dinosaur of Dino Dino Jungle has an own name, ''Noshi'' (technically, ''Nosshī''), {{media link|DKTT.png|since it appears in ''Mario Party 8'' as well}}, should it be given its own page?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 11:41, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
 :I'd support it. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:56, July 10, 2019 (EDT)
 ::I'd make the page, but I have one last question: considering how we deal with the ''Yoshi'', ''Doshi'' and ''Neshi'' names in the Yoshi and Dorrie page, should we name this character ''Noshi'' as well or should we be stricter in the Hepburn Romanization and use ''Nosshī''?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 09:43, July 18, 2019 (EDT)
@@ Line 53: / Line 51: @@
 == Send this article back to the Cretaceous period ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|canceled}}
 I'd like to revisit this with a fresher mindset in light of the [[Talk:Nossie|changes]] since the last proposal.
@@ Line 71: / Line 68: @@
 ===Save it from extinction===
-#{{User|TheDarkStar}}: If doing something about the SMWTV Rexes (which ''aren't even called Rexes'' in SMWTV) here necessitates a discussion, do that ''before'' starting a proposal to delete the page.
+#{{User|TheDarkStar}}: If splitting the SMW dinos necessitates a discussion, do that ''before'' starting a proposal to delete the page.
-#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}}: Per Dark Star. It also helps that there's been a rewrite/expand tag around '''''for more than a year'''''.
+#{{User|Lord Grammaticus}}: Per Dark Star.
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Agreed with TheDarkStar. They are relevant to the plot, and are just generic dinosaurs. Per all.
-#[[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) Mulled it over, and I still think the SMWTV is the breaker here. The "Rexes" outside of "[[Send in the Clown]]" might not even ''be'' Rexes, given they seemingly lack the wings and appear in different colors. The only things going for them are the horns and appearing alongside Dino Torches in "[[King Scoopa Koopa]]." And that's not getting into that one random jerk that spits fire that appeared for a little bit in "[[Party Line]]"....
-#{{User|Obsessive Mario Fan}} This page is just for generic dinosaurs that appear in the ''Mario'' series...
 ===Comments===
 Why does this proposal even exist? The SMW dinos aren't covered anywhere else, and there hasn't been ''any'' consensus over whether to split them into their own pages. If the proposal were to pass and delete this, where would the info on the SMW dinos go? {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 15:25, October 12, 2019 (EDT)
-:Okay, seems I was wrong about them being covered here. Either way, this article is the best place for info about the SMW dinos to go, as they don't have an official name. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 18:24, October 12, 2019 (EDT)
-::Amending my vote reason because I'll be frank - ''what the hell?'' Since when did we decide that binning pages was preferable to giving them the reconstruction they've sorely needed? That makes no sense to me at all, especially not considering there's legitimate information on the subject still to be included, per the Super Mario World example cited. This proposal seems far too hasty for me to agree with it in principle, even somehow ignoring all the other factors. --{{User:Lord Grammaticus/sig}} 02:58, October 15, 2019 (EDT)
-:::Actually, those Rexes do have wings, they're just bird-like. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 07:04, October 15, 2019 (EDT)
-::::OK, yeah, some do, but some (like the orange ones) don't. The current screenshots are mostly so old and blurry it's sometimes hard to tell. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:05, October 15, 2019 (EDT)
-== Rexes? ==
-Now, this one isn't very impactful - just a few mentions -, but it's more interesting with respect to the approach: Rexes are clearly dragons, and have been stated to be that since the '90s. since in Japan dinosaurs are known as scary dragons, it only made sense for them to have dragons in Dinosaur Land (this also explains better their bio on the Japanese instruction booklet). In the West, though, dinosaurs and dragons are more distinct ones from the others. My question is: should we be more strict and rather mention Rexes among the dragons or should we be closer to the Japanese view and keep Rexes as dinosaurs too, in this page, despite them being now officially dragons in the West as well?--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 14:25, August 7, 2022 (EDT)