Editing Talk:Diddy Kong Racing

Should we make the "Playable Characters" section written and have all those images in a gallery? <span style="font-family:verdana; color:#red;"><font size="5">'''[[User talk:Yoshario|Y]]'''oshario'''</font></span>[[File:Yoshi Mario Hat SM64DS.png|30px]]

Yes, that would be a lot better. [[User:fawfulfury65|fawfulfury65]] [[Image:Dark_Fawful_sprite.PNG]]

==Magic Codes==
Would a section on Magic Codes in this article be suitable or not? I'm thinking about adding them in (since they are part of the gameplay), but I'm not too sure if they are necessary.

{{User:BabyLuigiOnFire/sig}}
:I don't see why not. {{User:Fawfulfury65/sig}}

== Story Section ==

Unless I'm utterly mistaken, none of the introductory parts of the story section happen in the Nintendo 64 version. There is no carrier pigeon or letter that I can recall; if I'm not mistaken those were all added in the Nintendo DS version. The only introductory cutscene I can recall for the Nintendo 64 version is the whizpig's face in the cliff side surrounded by fog. Can anyone corroborate? {{User:Embyr_75/sig}} 22:04, 27 September 2014 (EDT)
:It's from the instruction manual (relevant scan available [http://nintendoagemedia.com/elements_nocache/49823B18-CF1D-7AA0-08DDF0B4A36ABC97.jpg here]). --[[User:Glowsquid|Glowsquid]] ([[User talk:Glowsquid|talk]]) 13:34, 30 September 2014 (EDT)

== Split Beta Elements ==
There is a lot of information on [https://www.tcrf.net/Diddy_Kong_Racing TCRF]. We only have five images about an unused track. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 19:59, 9 January 2016 (EST)
:Definitely. Would be great if this happened. I wonder who'll work on it, because this seems like some work to do. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 22:07, 31 January 2016 (EST)
::We can start a new page by specifying {{tem|rewrite-expand}}/{{tem|stub}} and {{tem|construction}} but also include the beta track pictures. --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 22:44, 31 January 2016 (EST)
:::[http://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=List_of_Diddy_Kong_Racing_pre-release_and_unused_content&oldid=1949966 I did all of it]. There is apparently much more than what we have right now according to The Cutting Room Floor, but this is the best I can do for now. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:03, 9 February 2016 (EST)
::::Nice. I'm usually unsure about creating new articles. I like to talk about it first before I just do it. The worst case scenario is creating a proposal if there is some dispute (none in this case). --{{User:Wildgoosespeeder/sig}} 20:11, 9 February 2016 (EST)
:::::Nothing wrong with stepping right in and creating it just as long as you invest effort in doing so. If you mess up, so what, we can all fix it or even delete it in worst-case scenario. This doesn't need a proposal at all since there is no downside to just creating content. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 20:22, 9 February 2016 (EST)

== Banjo and Conker's inclusion ==

[[Banjo]] and [[Conker]] first appeared in this game because, after their games were previewed and demoed at E3 1997 (June 19-21), Rare included the two characters in said game to promote their upcoming apperences in their games. ''Conker's Quest'' and ''Banjo-Kazooie'' were slated for a Holiday 1997 release, but Rare pushed them back to make room for ''Diddy Kong Racing'', and they were included in the game to promote their upcoming games. The following year, 1998, ''Banjo-Kazooie'' was set to be released in June, while ''Conker's Quest'' (renamed to ''Twelve Tales: Conker 64'') was set for a release in October. However, ''Twelve Tales'' ended up being delayed once again, due to people criticizing for being another one of Rare's cutest games, so in 1999, Rare retooled ''Twelve Tales'' into an adult-themed game called ''Conker's Bad Fur Day'', which was released in March 2001. Conker did got his first game, though, ''Conker's Pocket Tales'', released in 1999 for the Game Boy/Game Boy Color. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 15:24, 19 January 2018 (EST)
:''Twelve Tales'' retooling wasn't due to concerns, it was due to mocking. But whatever. Technically the demos were the first appearances. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:31, 19 January 2018 (EST)
::I'm just doing the best I can. Anyway, here's a 30-minute gameplay video of the canceled ''Twelve Tales''. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6ceNFV2yz4&t= [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 15:39, 19 January 2018 (EST)
:::It doesn't really matter here, though I've seen it. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:40, 19 January 2018 (EST)
::::Okay, then. [[User:Juju1995|Juju1995]] ([[User talk:Juju1995|talk]]) 15:44, 19 January 2018 (EST)

== Move the Island Guardians to shortened names ==

{{Settled TPP}}
{{Proposal outcome|passed|0-0-6-0-2|only move bosses to shortened names}}
We used to write characters like [[Taj]] and [[Rambi]] with their longer "X the Y" styled names, like "Taj the Genie" and "Rambi the Rhinoceros." We don't anymore, and the Island Guardian pages (as in, the first four bosses - Tricky, Bluey, Bubbler, and Smokey) continue to do so purely as a relic of this era. While this seems to be a no-brainer, it's complicated by the "full" names being officially used for the race courses they are faced on, which we currently list as "[[Tricky's Course]]" and the like - all conjecturally (meanwhile I don't know if the "full" names are ever specifically attributed to the characters rather than the courses, but if you know they are, let me know). So we need to figure out what do do regarding those. In Bubbler's case, since there's also an [[Bubbler (object)|object]] of that name, he will be moved to "Bubbler (character)."

'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 26, 2024, 23:59 GMT

===Move bosses to shortened names, move courses to old names===
<s>#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Preferred option</s><br>
<s>#{{User|Hewer}} Per pro</s><br>
<s>#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Closest to known official use.</s>

===Move bosses to shortened names, move courses to old names with "(course)" identifier===
<s>#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Second option</s><br>
<s>#{{User|Hewer}} posal.</s><br>
<s>#{{User|Arend}} Makes sense to me given the old names are still the bosses' full names.</s><br>
<s>#{{User|Jdtendo}} I think most people would think of "Tricky the Triceratops" as the triceratops named Tricky (and so on), so I think we should use the "(course)" identifier to clear up confusion.</s>

===Move bosses to shortened names, leave course names out of this===
#{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per what Tails777 has brought up, this will allow the courses to be moved to the "challenge" names without a separate proposal or anything.
#{{User|Arend}} The [https://archive.org/details/diddy-kong-racing-nintendo-players-guide/mode/2up Nintendo Player's Guide] that Tails777 brought up shows official names for these courses being '''Tricky Challenge''', '''Bluey Challenge''', '''Bubbler Challenge''', and '''Smokey Challenge''', meaning they don't have to be moved to the characters' full names (incidentally, it also shows an alternative name for [[Wizpig Strikes Back]] in '''Wizpig Challenge''', but also calls it by its other name on Page 124).
#{{User|Tails777}} Secondary option. Per... me I guess? I fully support moving the course names now that we have an official name for them. The "Long name vs. short name" deal is another can of worms that can be addressed elsewhere. For now, course names can be more of a focus.
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Thanks, Tails.
#{{User|Jdtendo}} I support moving the course names to "&lsqb;Character&rsqb; Challenge". As for the characters' names, even though the longer names are sometimes used in the Player's Guide to refer to the characters, the short names are used much more frequently and appear in more sources.
#{{User|Hewer}} Per

===Do not move bosses, move courses to boss names with "(course)" identifier===
<s>#{{User|Arend}} Second choice</s>

===Leave them both be===
#{{User|Tails777}} Okay, I'll weigh in on this. Concerning the "Long name vs. short name" deal, I feel this is a situation that should be tackled as one big group rather than individual cases. We have the DK Animal Friends using their short names, crossover characters using their short names (something that is [[Talk:Shadow#Rename to "Shadow"|also being debated]]), with both cases being because the shorter names are more common, yet we have the Koopalings using their full names for articles, despite their shorter names being more commonly used (as well as the [[Talk:Princess Daisy#Move to "Daisy"|Daisy proposal]] failing, despite being in a very similar situation). Overall, I feel my stance is just rather than looking at each individual case, it may be better to tackle this all as one big thing. That's just me though and if I'm to weigh in here, I feel using their full names for now is fine. The courses do HAVE official names (being "Tricky's Challenge", "Smokey's Challenge" etc) and I'd rather use those names.

===Comments===
{{multiframe|[[File:NintendoPowerDKR-TrickyChallenge.jpg|100px]][[File:NintendoPowerDKR-Tricky.jpg|100px]]}}
I'm not sure how much help this offers, but I have the official Nintendo Power guide for ''Diddy Kong Racing''. The pages containing the maps for the world lobbies refer to the boss tracks as "Character's name"'s Challenge (Tricky's Challenge, Bluey's Challenge, etc) while the pages concerning the courses themselves do not give a name and instead just refer to the bosses themselves, in their shortened forms. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:Good catch. I think unique names are much better for the courses than having to use identifiers, but it's probably too late in the proposal. I still support the shorter boss names. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:07, July 20, 2024 (EDT)
::I added the pages for Tricky as an example of how the guide uses the names. If I had any guess, the pages with the maps may be referring to the bosses themselves, but the lobby maps could be referring to the tracks instead. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
:::According to [[:File:NintendoPowerDKR-Tricky.jpg|the Tricky page]], "Tricky the Triceratops is the master of Dino Domain". This is an official instance of a "full" name being specifically attributed to a character rather than a course. {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 11:31, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
::::Yes, I see that. Thanks, Tails. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:11, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::All this being said, why exactly are the course names using conjectural names over the ones with sources? Names like Tricky's Challenge are officially sourced, why exactly aren't we using those? {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::::::Because the "challenge" names were only -just- discovered? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:29, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
:::::::Right, yeah, hilariously enough, I didn't realize that these names were added to the article as I made the discovery and, when I checked today and saw them, I actually thought they had always been there. My bad. {{User:Tails777/sig}}.

@Tails777: In my opinion, each case is different and should be handled separately, and a giant sweeping proposal handling a huge number of largely unrelated articles such as what you're suggesting isn't a great idea. Neither longer nor shorter names are inherently better, but we should use what's more common in official sources, and that can vary from case to case - [[Rambi the Rhino|sometimes]] it's the shorter name, [[The Old Psychic Lady with the Evil Eye Who Reads Fortunes and Knows Everything Before It Happens|other times]] it's the longer one. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 21:05, July 23, 2024 (EDT)
:Fair, I can understand that. This in particular case is a one time thing, as all these bosses have just this one appearance to go off of. Whether to use the short names or long names isn't exactly clear cause both get used about the same. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
::I disagree that they get used about the same in this case seeing as I believe we have only one source for the long names being used to refer to the characters themselves instead of the courses, and it's telling that it was only just discovered. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 06:42, July 24, 2024 (EDT)