Editing Talk:Diddy Kong Pilot (2003)

== Handling stat ==
Whilst I'm not sure how to phrase it in the article itself, it seems like characters with hight weight have a harder time turning than other characters, its very noticeable comparing the heaviest character, [[King K. Rool|K. Rool]], and the lightest character, [[Klaptrap]]. No Handling stat is listed in Diddy Kong Pilot, but I've noticed most of the character stats seems to line up with Banjo Pilot characters and I feel like low weight characters have good handling. For reference, most of the heavyweight characters in Diddy Kong Pilot have counterparts in Banjo Pilot with a low handling stat like K. Rool and [[Klump]] to [[jiggywikki:Grunty|Grunty]] and [[jiggywikki:Klungo|Klungo]]. Again, I'm not sure how to put this in the article itself. [[User:Delsait|Delsait]] ([[User talk:Delsait|talk]]) 22:35, April 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Allow this game more coverage ==

{{TPP}}

This game is in a weird position. It was ''technically'' never released as-is for the system it was made for... but was then released with a different set of characters and other scattered graphic/interface/sound changes while keeping virtually everything else intact. Plus, the fact that it was leaked by a Rare employee means that it actually did have an "official" release... even if it's not in the intended manner nor one Nintendo themselves won't acknowledge. Plus, unlike most vaporware articles (such as the 2001 DKP, which is practically an alpha build), this is, for all intents and purposes, a complete game: the only thing it lacks is polish and a proper options menu - and because of ''Banjo-Pilot'', it's technically not "vaporware" anyway.

Normally, we don't make articles for subjects from unreleased games or exclusively unused content from released games, but again, this game is in such a weird position I'd like to make an exception, namely for the race tracks. There's so much information on them that the current format prevents us from documenting in full (general layout, screenshots, letter positions, balloon positions, coin positions, full differences in B-P), but if we can make articles for them, then that won't be an issue. The naming priority for the articles would be the names used in DKP while playing as the Kongs, since the Krems use reversed versions of those courses with different names.

'''Proposer''': {{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}}<br>
'''Deadline''': August 3, 2024, 23:59 GMT

====Support====
#{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
#{{User|Axis}} Per proposal.

====Oppose====
#{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Almost everything that can be said about the game is already covered on the base page. As for courses, to acknowledge this game's pre-release status and prevent overflow into ''Banjo-Pilot'', I suggest a List of courses in ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' (2003) page to cover everything instead.

====Comments====
This is just for the 2003 iteration, not the 2001 one, correct? (On that note, I've always had them confused. If ''Banjo-Pilot'' is basically the same thing in a new coat of paint, would it be nuts to give ''Banjo-Pilot'' the special coverage?) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:46, July 20, 2024 (EDT)
:Yes, 2003 only, not the barely-playable 2001 one (that's [[user:Windy|the hub stage of ''Conker's Bad Fur Day'']]'s boat there). I'm a bit more apprehensive on covering B-P ahead of this one, even if this is essentially a "pre-release and unused content" for it - mainly ''because'' that's what it is. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:57, July 20, 2024 (EDT)
The 2003 build is not a canceled product, just pre-release of ''Banjo-Pilot''. (the 2001 build is unreleased product like ''Coconut Crackers'', both were never released despite release being set) I'd like to cross off the "Canceled games" category and address the comparison to final product. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 06:19, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
: Quick question, does this even ''need'' a proposal? It's fully playable and there's nothing really stopping us from doing so. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:26, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
::As mentioned in the proposal, we don't normally make articles for subjects from unreleased/cancelled games. The proposal is aiming to make an exception here as it's a weird enough edge case to warrant scrutiny. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:59, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 == Allow this game more coverage ==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|6-3|allow more coverage}}
-This game is in a weird position. It was ''technically'' never released as-is for the system it was made for... but was then released with a different set of characters and other scattered graphic/interface/sound changes while keeping virtually everything else intact. Plus, the fact that it was leaked by a Rare employee means that it actually did have an "official" release... even if it's not in the intended manner nor one Nintendo themselves will acknowledge. Plus, unlike most vaporware articles (such as the 2001 DKP, which is practically an alpha build), this is, for all intents and purposes, a complete game: the only thing it lacks is polish and a proper options menu - and because of ''Banjo-Pilot'', it's technically not "vaporware" anyway. The closest case I can think to this is how ''Star Fox II'' went without an official release for a very long time despite being a complete game, yet LylatWiki covered its content well before it was released on the SNES Classic Edition - and even then, this was still released as ''Banjo-Pilot''.
+This game is in a weird position. It was ''technically'' never released as-is for the system it was made for... but was then released with a different set of characters and other scattered graphic/interface/sound changes while keeping virtually everything else intact. Plus, the fact that it was leaked by a Rare employee means that it actually did have an "official" release... even if it's not in the intended manner nor one Nintendo themselves won't acknowledge. Plus, unlike most vaporware articles (such as the 2001 DKP, which is practically an alpha build), this is, for all intents and purposes, a complete game: the only thing it lacks is polish and a proper options menu - and because of ''Banjo-Pilot'', it's technically not "vaporware" anyway.
 Normally, we don't make articles for subjects from unreleased games or exclusively unused content from released games, but again, this game is in such a weird position I'd like to make an exception, namely for the race tracks. There's so much information on them that the current format prevents us from documenting in full (general layout, screenshots, letter positions, balloon positions, coin positions, full differences in B-P), but if we can make articles for them, then that won't be an issue. The naming priority for the articles would be the names used in DKP while playing as the Kongs, since the Krems use reversed versions of those courses with different names.
@@ Line 17: / Line 16: @@
 #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per
 #{{User|Axis}} Per proposal.
-#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} This game needs more attention!
-#{{User|FanOfYoshi}} Per all.
-#{{User|Scrooge200}} This is basically a fully-finished game, and we are the only site that can feasibly cover it. I don't think ''Banjo-Pilot'' would be a strict 1:1 recreation with all the item locations being the exact same, and we don't cover it at all here either.
-#{{User|Metalex123}} Per all.
 ====Oppose====
 #{{User|Super Mario RPG}} Almost everything that can be said about the game is already covered on the base page. As for courses, to acknowledge this game's pre-release status and prevent overflow into ''Banjo-Pilot'', I suggest a List of courses in ''Diddy Kong Pilot'' (2003) page to cover everything instead.
-#{{User|TheUndescribableGhost}} Consistent to how we do most canceled games on this wiki. ''Banjo-Pilot'' pretty much covers most of what this game had to offer, so this very wiki doesn't need to clarify much.
-#{{User|Windy}} Per TheUndescribableGhost. ''Banjo-Pilot'' from another wiki is enough to describe the contents of this prototype.
 ====Comments====
@@ Line 33: / Line 26: @@
 : Quick question, does this even ''need'' a proposal? It's fully playable and there's nothing really stopping us from doing so. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 08:26, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
 ::As mentioned in the proposal, we don't normally make articles for subjects from unreleased/cancelled games. The proposal is aiming to make an exception here as it's a weird enough edge case to warrant scrutiny. {{User:Hewer/sig}} 08:59, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
-@Super Mario RPG The problem with that is that due to the amount of collectibles each track has, that would be like trying to merge every ''Diddy Kong Racing'' track to a single page. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 11:00, July 21, 2024 (EDT)
-''Banjo-Pilot'' was in development before the acquisition, and 2003 build was a stage before decision to use the ''Banjo-Kazooie'' characters. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 06:57, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-:And? Pretty sure the collectible locations don't correlate 1:1. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:35, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-@Opposition: So, the argument for opposing just boils down to Banjo-Pilot covering this prototype? I would like to point out that even the Banjo-Pilot early version has some differences like "Go, Glowbo, Go!" was intended to maintain the monkey screeches before they replaced it with the Glowbo giggling. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 12:44, July 25, 2024 (EDT)
-What do we doing after this proposal passed? The difference of this prototype and ''Banjo-Pilot'' is whether it was actually finished. [[User:Windy|Windy]] ([[User talk:Windy|talk]]) 08:34, July 26, 2024 (EDT)
-: Thing is, this prototype is largely finished and playable with only a few minor glitches. [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 09:00, July 26, 2024 (EDT)
-::It even has a full story mode, I've played through the whole thing. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 09:43, July 26, 2024 (EDT)