Editing Talk:Crazy Kong

==Lanky Kong distinguish template==
Earlier, I had put a distinguish template on this regarding [[Lanky Kong]] due to him being referred to as "this crazy Kong" in the [[DK Rap]], and it was removed because "no one would search for that looking for him." I object to that statement on numerous counts: the DK Rap is the most well-known aspect of ''Donkey Kong 64'' due to its highly memetic status (as in, it is a ''standard template'' for [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad0pyimDnQA many] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdcAISQdhhA video]/[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ECec9YoHYs audio] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=js4I20krJp4 remix] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuORiNhOoqo practices]), and the song does not actually mention him by name. It isn't unlikely at all, therefore, that someone would misconstrue the line as referring to his name. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 17:32, January 7, 2024 (EST)
: Because we don't really do meme status when it comes to searching for things on this Wiki? [[User:PrincessPeachFan|PrincessPeachFan]] ([[User talk:PrincessPeachFan|talk]]) 13:04, January 8, 2024 (EST)
::Ok but the touch-and-go situation described by Doc is pretty realistic nonetheless. If all of your knowledge on the DK franchise is the DK Rap (and that's to be expected considering its meme status) and you're curious about the funny orangutan from the third verse, "crazy Kong" is the closest thing to a name you can latch on to. The distinguish tag would only aid you in your search. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 13:50, January 8, 2024 (EST)
:::Looking at this article's history, it was Archivist Toadette who added the distinguish template; you, Doc, didn't seem to have made any edits here. Aside from that, I'm mixed on adding back the template, but leaning towards doing so — it's ''very'' silly and niche, but still potentially helpful. [[User:SolemnStormcloud|SolemnStormcloud]] ([[User talk:SolemnStormcloud|talk]]) 13:29, January 10, 2024 (EST)
::::I added it back. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 10:51, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:"The song does not actually mention him by name" - Nor does it mention the other Kongs by name besides DK. And the lyrics go "'''this''' crazy Kong", so I don't see how someone would confuse what's clearly meant to be an adjective as his actual name. Would people think Tiny Kong is called "[[Cool Kong]]" because the rap refers to her as "one cool Kong"? {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 11:26, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::If they only had the DK rap as their knowledge on the DK franchise, like {{@|Koopa con Carne}} said. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 11:41, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::You don't need knowledge of the DK franchise to recognise the word is being used as an adjective. {{User:Mario jc/sig}} 11:54, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
::::As are pretty much all the Kong names, including his actual name. And it's less about "thinking it's his actual name" and more about "hm, I wonder who that Crazy Kong that can handstand and inflate himself is" and having that be the only thing they can think to fall back on. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:18, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::Agreed. [[User:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)]] ([[User talk:SONIC123CDMANIA+&#38;K(B&#38;ATSA)|talk]]) 13:50, April 25, 2024 (EDT)
:::::It's not rare that I wanted to look up a specific character I saw in a video, meme, or whatnot and couldn't find it easily because I had little knowledge of the source material. It's a reasonable assumption to make that even people who have no interest or knowledge in Donkey Kong have been exposed to the DK Rap, because, let's face it, it's a viral song within the gaming sphere; and Lanky Kong's verse especially has become [https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/lankyposting-he a standout part] of that song, so there'd be people who don't even know where the song comes from who are curious about the character; so why not optimize their search around the one descriptor the song uses for this character? {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 15:20, April 25, 2024 (EDT)

== Game infobox ==

Shouldn't this article use the game infobox? It is an official, licensed game in the ''Donkey Kong'' series, after all, so I don't see why it shouldn't. {{User:RetroNintendo2008/sig}} 10:54, March 17, 2024 (EDT)

== I might have found ''Crazy Junior''... ==

{{Talk}}
[[File:Crazy Junior Gameplay.jpg|right]]
While researching info on this game, I found [https://www.reddit.com/r/arcade/comments/s472uk/fixed_my_crazy_junior/ a Reddit post] on someone who had apparently "fixed up" their ''Crazy Junior'' arcade machine. Going of the rather low quality picture as shown, it seems to look identical to that of ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'', which is unlike ''Crazy Kong'' and ''Crazy Kong Part II'' that have major differences from ''[[Donkey Kong (game)|Donkey Kong]]''. Should I include this on the article or does this screenshot seem a little fake for it to be a "reliable source"? {{User:Starluxe/sig}} 9:55, October 12, 2024 (EDT)

== Difference in level order from Donkey Kong ==

In Donkey Kong the first level is girders then rivets. The second level is girders, elevators, rivets. The third level is girders, elevators, conveyor belt, rivets. In other words, each level adds a new screen. In Crazy Kong and other derivatives all screens are playable at all levels. So level one is girders, elevators, conveyor belts, rivets. [[Special:Contributions/24.85.30.53|24.85.30.53]] 20:55, November 18, 2024 (EST)
:This is the level order in the Japanese version of Donkey Kong. It was also used in the earliest version released in the US. Crazy Kong is based on the Japanese version.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 21:51, February 1, 2025 (EST)

== Unresolved questions ==

1: '''Kyoei''': When Nintendo signed an agreement on September 23, 1981 to manufacture CK, it was with a company called Kyoei. CK1 machines have {{file link|CK Instruction Card.jpg|Kyoei-branded instructions}}. Kyoei quickly transferred the license to its parent company, [[Falcon]]. The Kyoei brand is not seen on CK2 instructions and I don't think Kyoei machines have ever left Japan. I don't think Nintendo ever objected to the license transfer as none of the articles I've read mention it. Nintendo seems to treat the two companies interchangeably in their lawsuit. Are all Japanese CK1 machines Kyoei-branded rather than Falcon? Some Japanese sources [http://nyamuko.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2011/05/part2-cad2.html] [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04oOodbDd0E] claim that Kyoei had created CK1 before the license and sought Nintendo's permission to retroactively legitimize machines they've already produced. Can this be confirmed?

2: '''Crazy Kong Part II release date''': In the Japanese wiki for Donkey Kong, there is a [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%83%89%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AD%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0#%E3%82%AF%E3%83%AC%E3%82%A4%E3%82%B8%E3%83%BC%E3%82%B3%E3%83%B3%E3%82%B0 section devoted to CK]. In it, [[Ikegami Tsushinki]] programmer [[List of Donkey Kong staff#Programmed by.5B1.5D|Hirohisa Komanome]], who worked on DK, claims to have witnessed DK break out of his cage and was impressed. This is from the attract mode of Part II. [https://shmuplations.com/donkeykong/ He says he saw it during the Amusement Machine Show of '81]. This was held from [https://archive.org/details/game-machine-magazine-19811015p/page/n21/mode/1up?view=theater October 6th through the 8th]. Isn't this too soon? Two weeks after the license with Kyoei for CK1 and Falcon pumps out CK2?!

3: '''Official cabinets''': CK is created using Crazy Climber hardware, hence the name Crazy Kong. <s>Did Kyoei or Falcon reuse the [https://arcadecollecting.com/crazy/crazy.html Nichibutsu cabinets] as well? Nichibutsu licensed manufacture of whole ''CC'' machines to Sega and Orca, and Taito got the rights to resell ''CC'' PCBs. Did Kyoei/Falcon use any parts from these? And/or did Kyoei/Falcon use their own cabinets? Do any legitimate Japanese CK1/CK2 machines still exist?</s> I don't have a lot of confidence in the marquees posted in the [[Gallery:Crazy Kong|gallery]], [https://www.flickr.com/photos/neacf/34824408815/ they lack Kyoei/Falcon branding and the instructions are in English rather than Japanese]. I don't think any of the CK cabinets in the gallery are made by Kyoei/Falcon. The Crazy Junior cabinets look like they are [https://www.rotheblog.com/2008/08/arcade-game-artwork/falcon-orca-made-sideart-mr-do-cabinets/ for the US market], but then again everything related to this game is illegal.
--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 01:37, February 2, 2025 (EST)

:'''Updates for #1 and #3''': All CK1 are Kyoei and all CK2 are Falcon. Neither Falcon nor Kyoei have ever produced cabinets. They manufactured and sold PCBs only. There are no dedicated CK cabinets in Japan (therefore all CK cabinets and marquees are unauthorized). The images in the gallery are recent conversions made by a Japanese hobbyist [http://bz504178zb.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-745.html] [http://bz504178zb.blog.fc2.com/?no=535]. Falcon exported CK to the US, where they did have [https://www.flickr.com/photos/10707024@N04/50147150653 dedicated white cabinets] manufactured by a Rhode Island company called Omni Video / Glak / Eagle (all the same shady company). Falcon exported CK2 to Europe with Zaccaria making [https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5339.0 dedicated black cabinets] for it (was Zaccaria aware of the illegality of their agreement?). Falcon made only 12 thousand ''Crazy Kong Jr.'' PCBs and Omni produced the US cabinets for them too (as ''Crazy Junior''). These resemble their CK cabinets but with slight color changes.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 06:17, February 4, 2025 (EST)
@@ Line 16: / Line 16: @@
 Shouldn't this article use the game infobox? It is an official, licensed game in the ''Donkey Kong'' series, after all, so I don't see why it shouldn't. {{User:RetroNintendo2008/sig}} 10:54, March 17, 2024 (EDT)
-== I might have found ''Crazy Junior''? ==
+== I might have found ''Crazy Junior''... ==
-<s>[[File:Crazy Junior Gameplay.jpg|right]]
+{{Talk}}
-While researching info on this game, I found [https://www.reddit.com/r/arcade/comments/s472uk/fixed_my_crazy_junior/ a Reddit post] on someone who had apparently "fixed up" their ''Crazy Junior'' arcade machine. Going of the rather low quality picture as shown, it seems to look identical to that of ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'', which is unlike ''Crazy Kong'' and ''Crazy Kong Part II'' that have major differences from ''[[Donkey Kong (game)|Donkey Kong]]''. Should I include this on the article or does this screenshot seem a little fake for it to be a "reliable source"? {{User:Starluxe/sig}} 9:55, October 12, 2024 (EDT)</s>
+[[File:Crazy Junior Gameplay.jpg|right]]
+While researching info on this game, I found [https://www.reddit.com/r/arcade/comments/s472uk/fixed_my_crazy_junior/ a Reddit post] on someone who had apparently "fixed up" their ''Crazy Junior'' arcade machine. Going of the rather low quality picture as shown, it seems to look identical to that of ''[[Donkey Kong Jr. (game)|Donkey Kong Jr.]]'', which is unlike ''Crazy Kong'' and ''Crazy Kong Part II'' that have major differences from ''[[Donkey Kong (game)|Donkey Kong]]''. Should I include this on the article or does this screenshot seem a little fake for it to be a "reliable source"? {{User:Starluxe/sig}} 9:55, October 12, 2024 (EDT)
 == Difference in level order from Donkey Kong ==
@@ Line 36: / Line 37: @@
 :'''Updates for #1 and #3''': All CK1 are Kyoei and all CK2 are Falcon. Neither Falcon nor Kyoei have ever produced cabinets. They manufactured and sold PCBs only. There are no dedicated CK cabinets in Japan (therefore all CK cabinets and marquees are unauthorized). The images in the gallery are recent conversions made by a Japanese hobbyist [http://bz504178zb.blog.fc2.com/blog-entry-745.html] [http://bz504178zb.blog.fc2.com/?no=535]. Falcon exported CK to the US, where they did have [https://www.flickr.com/photos/10707024@N04/50147150653 dedicated white cabinets] manufactured by a Rhode Island company called Omni Video / Glak / Eagle (all the same shady company). Falcon exported CK2 to Europe with Zaccaria making [https://www.dragonslairfans.com/smfor/index.php?topic=5339.0 dedicated black cabinets] for it (was Zaccaria aware of the illegality of their agreement?). Falcon made only 12 thousand ''Crazy Kong Jr.'' PCBs and Omni produced the US cabinets for them too (as ''Crazy Junior''). These resemble their CK cabinets but with slight color changes.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 06:17, February 4, 2025 (EST)
-== Official character names ==
-{{talk}}
-Since this game was never released outside of Japan officially, the only legitimate instructions are from the Japanese version. The names of the characters should be Player, Kong, and Lady as was the original release of DK in Japan.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 11:46, February 17, 2025 (EST)
-== Crazy Junior coverage ==
-According to [[MarioWiki:Coverage]], "Fan work by creators officially involved with the brand" are not covered on the Super Mario Wiki. This logic technically applies to Crazy Junior, because it was made without Nintendo's consent and Falcon was approved by Nintendo to make Crazy Kongs 1 and 2. But here, we have an entire section dedicated to Crazy Junior, and pretty much everything we know about it. Which isn't much, as of now. But what if the game gets dumped? Would we completely cover it and its differences to Donkey Kong Jr.? {{User:Rykitu/sig}}
-:All I know is that {{@|Kaptain Skurvy}} mostly contributed to the Crazy Junior coverage on this page. I guess it's relevant for us to cover here because Falcon's president got arrested because of these unauthorized copies of DK Jr., though I'm not sure if it would deserve its own page. {{User:Arend/sig}} 07:00, March 8, 2025 (EST)
-:Current coverage is fine. It complies with the policy you linked: "These works might merit a mention on the relevant subject's page but are not to be given full coverage as they are not endorsed by Nintendo." Besides that, Crazy Junior's existence is intriguing enough to document because its "dev" was already in hot water with Nintendo, and is what ultimately brought the company's CEO from Falcon to Felony. The "lost" tag is appended to its section simply to signal the objective fact that the game isn't publicly available, but I don't necessarily see it as a behest for full coverage should the original ROM be found. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 08:18, March 8, 2025 (EST)
-:I think [[List of unofficial media acknowledged by Nintendo]] is a better place for Crazy Junior. It's a completely different game and is already mentioned in the lawsuit section.--[[User:Platform|Platform]] ([[User talk:Platform|talk]]) 07:59, March 9, 2025 (EDT)