Editing Talk:Count Down

==Merge potential?==
Is there viability in merging Count Down and Ring-a-Ding as "Watch (boss)"? Like Smilax and the cake, they're both two parts of the same object, with Count Down being labeled in the Shogakukan guide as the "watch's hand" and Ding-A-Ling its bell/alarm. The term "watch" comes from the game itself, if Count Down is beaten before Ring-a-Ding and it goes haywire with "The watch is broken!" (時計が　こわれた！！). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:41, April 1, 2024 (EDT)
:I guess, if the Shogakukan guide says Count Down's the hands, and nothing contradicts that, then sure. Though the fact that got translated as "watch" makes that title less, uh, compelling than if it was, say, "clock", it is what it is. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 16:17, April 1, 2024 (EDT)

==Merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding as "watch (boss)"==
{{TPP}}
See above. These are two parts of the same "watch" boss/object, and so, like [[Talk:cake (boss)#Decide how to cut the cake|cake]] and [[Talk:Megasmilax#Axing a Smilax|Smilax]], they ought to occupy the same space.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
'''Deadline''': July 18, 2023, 23:59 GMT
===Time for a merge!===
#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Count me in.

===Time for a merge! (as Count Down instead)===
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Secondary option.
#{{User|Arend}} See comments.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Arend's commments.

===Time to clock out!===
#{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Nope. To me, watch is just a generic name and not its actual name.
#{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per the comments, it seems reasonable to consider Count Down the name of the boss overall.
#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Jdtendo's comments.

===Comments===
Wouldn't Count Down be the name of the boss as a whole, instead of ''just'' the clock's hands? After all, we're not naming [[Exor]] something like "Sword (boss)" because only [[:File:SMRPG Exor idle.gif|some glowing eyes in the skull-shaped pommel]] is being referred to as "Exor" in the boss battle. {{User:Arend/sig}} 20:54, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
:"Watch" corresponds to the term used in the Shogakukan guide, which identifies Count Down and Ding-A-Ling as components of it. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:04, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
::<s>The Shogakukan guide claims that the hands are called メビウス　(時計の針), but ''in-game'', the same hands are referred to as simply メビウス; this would essentially mean that, if the Shogakukan guide were being translated in English, the guide would've referred to the hands as "Count Down (Watch's Hands)" instead of simply "Count Down".</s> (nvm, the guide also states the name of Ring-a-Ding to be リンリン　(時計のベル) instead of リンリン or メビウス　(時計のベル)). Furthermore, the remake displays the target of メビウス/Count Down to be the ''base'' of the clock (or the hourglass within), ''not'' the hands on the dial, as can be seen [https://youtu.be/3GS8UaIhMmI?si=CxwRk3DY_QLpr_tT here] and [https://youtu.be/bKamH-ORE08?si=yiXUtpptRQ0L-2Ek here], which further insinuates that the whole thing is called Count Down instead of only its face. {{User:Arend/sig}} 21:16, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
:::Eh, I'll add it as an option since it could be that ArtePiazza saw it differently, though I can confirm that the message "The watch is broken!" ({{ruby|時計|とけい}}が　こわれた！！) still appears in the remake if Count Down is beaten before Ring-a-Ding. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:33, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
::::There's also [https://twitter.com/kurashimakaz/status/1369697859868659714 this thing], which already showed a time-themed boss called Moebius. I would assume that in the final game, Moebius would still be the name of the time-themed boss, and not just a part of it. As for the Shogakukan guide, that's probably just because of how the rest of the watch is part of the background, which means the sprite for Moebius just shows the hands, and they interpreted that literally. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 10:08, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

<s>Is there any official English source which refers to this boss as a "watch"? If not, the only known official name is「時計」(''tokei'') and thus this boss should be named "Tokei" if we merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding. We cannot call it "Watch" if this English word is not used officially. Moreover,「時計」can refer to any type of clock (in this case, an alarm clock), not just watches.</s> EDIT: I checked, the English version of the game does say "The watch is broken". However, that's when only Count Down is beaten, which may be interpreted as: only Count Down '''is''' the watch, and Ring-a-Dings (which are not broken yet) are not part of the watch itself (depending on how you interpret it). {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:54, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
:The other closest mention I'm aware of would be the Nintendo Power Player's Guide, under '''Count Down''' on pg.102: "''Slam down Count Down, then ring the bells of the two Ding-A-Lings up top. You’ll want to clean the clock first to ward off its impressive recovery magic. If you ease up at all, Count Down will decide it’s time to unleash a potent attack like the Aurora Flash. Rely on your Regular Attacks if you want to beat the fearsome threesome in a timely manner. Mario’s Jump Attacks don’t faze Count Down, but they really hurt his partners in chime.''" Note that it lists the cake under "Bundt & Raspberry" (57) and Smilax under "Megasmilax" (80), and it seems to have reversed the Jump weakness. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 08:20, July 5, 2024 (EDT)

Just so we're all on the same page: first option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "watch (boss)", second option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "Count Down", and third option keeps Count Down and Ring-a-Ding split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:45, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ==Merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding as "watch (boss)"==
-{{Settled TPP}}
+{{TPP}}
-{{Proposal outcome|passed|1-8-5|merge as "Count Down"}}
 See above. These are two parts of the same "watch" boss/object, and so, like [[Talk:cake (boss)#Decide how to cut the cake|cake]] and [[Talk:Megasmilax#Axing a Smilax|Smilax]], they ought to occupy the same space.
 '''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>
-'''Deadline''': <s>July 18, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> <s>Extended to July 25, 2024, 23:59 GMT</s> Extended to August 1, 2024, 23:59 GMT
+'''Deadline''': July 18, 2023, 23:59 GMT
 ===Time for a merge!===
 #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Count me in.
@@ Line 17: / Line 15: @@
 #{{User|Waluigi Time}} Secondary option.
 #{{User|Arend}} See comments.
-#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Arend's commments. <strike>(Second choice)</strike> EDIT: Camwoodstock and DrippingYellow's votes have convinced me that this is probably the better of the two options, matching Exor from the same game.
+#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Arend's commments.
-#{{User|LinkTheLefty}} A second too soon.
-#{{User|Blinker}} I'm down. Per, the comments.
-#{{User|Camwoodstock}} This makes the most sense to us. We merge boss body parts before--see [[Exor]] and his eyes and <s>Neosquid</s> mouth--but "watch" feels bordering on conjecture, as despite Technically™ being from the game itself, the full boss itself is almost never called just "watch" outside of a few status boxes. Count Down is the name more people are going to be familiar with, ergo, we should prioritize that.
-#{{User|DrippingYellow}} The remake basically confirms that Count Down is the whole clock, not part of it: the clock itself shakes when the player damages Count Down, and the glossary places the identification arrow for Count Down below the hourglass. The remake also shows that the Ring-a-Dings, though both attached to the clock, are separate entities that talk to each other, though I would personally rather they be merged here due to their hand-in-hand connection with Count Down.
-#{{User|Nightwicked Bowser}} My preferred choice.
 ===Time to clock out!===
 #{{User|PrincessPeachFan}} Nope. To me, watch is just a generic name and not its actual name.
 #{{User|Waluigi Time}} Per the comments, it seems reasonable to consider Count Down the name of the boss overall.
-#{{User|DrBaskerville}} Per all.
+#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Jdtendo's comments.
-#{{User|Shoey}} Per all.
-#{{User|DryBonesBandit}} Per all.
-<strike>#{{User|Pseudo}} Per Jdtendo's comments.</strike>
 ===Comments===
@@ Line 38: / Line 28: @@
 :::Eh, I'll add it as an option since it could be that ArtePiazza saw it differently, though I can confirm that the message "The watch is broken!" ({{ruby|時計|とけい}}が　こわれた！！) still appears in the remake if Count Down is beaten before Ring-a-Ding. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 21:33, July 4, 2024 (EDT)
 ::::There's also [https://twitter.com/kurashimakaz/status/1369697859868659714 this thing], which already showed a time-themed boss called Moebius. I would assume that in the final game, Moebius would still be the name of the time-themed boss, and not just a part of it. As for the Shogakukan guide, that's probably just because of how the rest of the watch is part of the background, which means the sprite for Moebius just shows the hands, and they interpreted that literally. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 10:08, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-:::::That's another reason why I brought up Exor, since his battle is a similar case. Not only because of multiple targets with different names, but also the target named "Exor" being the aforementioned  [[:File:SMRPG Exor idle.gif|pair of glowing eyes in the skull-shaped pommel]]... because outside of those, Exor's actual eyes, and his mouth, the entirety of him ''is'' the background, probably done so because it's a big boss with multiple interactable parts aside from itself (those being its eyes and mouth). Count Down is the same deal: the hands were assigned to be the target to bear the Count Down name because you cannot make the background itself a target, and you need to have ''some'' target. {{User:Arend/sig}} 21:13, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
 <s>Is there any official English source which refers to this boss as a "watch"? If not, the only known official name is「時計」(''tokei'') and thus this boss should be named "Tokei" if we merge Count Down and Ring-a-Ding. We cannot call it "Watch" if this English word is not used officially. Moreover,「時計」can refer to any type of clock (in this case, an alarm clock), not just watches.</s> EDIT: I checked, the English version of the game does say "The watch is broken". However, that's when only Count Down is beaten, which may be interpreted as: only Count Down '''is''' the watch, and Ring-a-Dings (which are not broken yet) are not part of the watch itself (depending on how you interpret it). {{User:Jdtendo/sig}} 03:54, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
@@ Line 44: / Line 33: @@
 Just so we're all on the same page: first option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "watch (boss)", second option merges Ring-a-Ding and Count Down as "Count Down", and third option keeps Count Down and Ring-a-Ding split. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 17:45, July 5, 2024 (EDT)
-Do we have internal filenames for Count Down in the Nintendo Switch version of the game, whether it refers to just the hands or the entire body? I feel that would help a lot too. {{User:Arend/sig}} 09:31, July 6, 2024 (EDT)
-:Good question. In the <tt>Data/StreamingAssets/aa/Switch/d_assets_</tt> folder, we have <tt>cg_data-character-p1561_mevius.bundle</tt> and <tt>cg_data-character-p1562_ringring.bundle</tt> files, and the former contains the clock sans bells and the latter is just the bell. Note, also, that there exists <tt>cg_data-character-p1517_strawberry.bundle</tt> (top two cake layers), <tt>cg_data-character-p1518_raspberry.bundle</tt> (third/bottom caker layer), <tt>cg_data-character-p1536_tsubomi.bundle</tt> (Smilax bud), <tt>cg_data-character-p1537_queenflower.bundle</tt> (Megasmilax/parts), <tt>cg_data-character-p1557_caribre.bundle</tt> (Exor sword and parts), <tt>cg_data-character-p1558_righteye.bundle</tt> and <tt>cg_data-character-p1560_mouth.bundle</tt> (battle data?). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 12:25, July 6, 2024 (EDT)