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| == Consider Tubba Blubba and Grubba as Clubbas == | | == Consider Tubba Blubba and Grubba as Clubbas == |
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| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{TPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|failed|2-6|Do not consider Tubba Blubba and Grubba as Clubbas}}
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| I'm aware the Japanese name of Clubba is derived from Spike's which is also the case for these two characters. However, there's also the fact that regular Spikes do not appear in these games with Clubbas being the only kind that do, and Clubbas along with these two characters don't spit spiked balls from their mouths. Although ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' also doesn't have normal Clubbas as enemies, Grubba's name and design does still alude to them. | | I'm aware the Japanese name of Clubba is derived from Spike's which is also the case for these two characters. However, there's also the fact that regular Spikes do not appear in these games with Clubbas being the only kind that do, and Clubbas along with these two characters don't spit spiked balls from their mouths. Although ''Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door'' also doesn't have normal Clubbas as enemies, Grubba's name and design does still alude to them. |
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| ===Support=== | | ===Support=== |
| #{{User|Swallow}} Per Proposal | | #{{User|Swallow}} Per Proposal |
| #{{User|Camwoodstock}} Given the lack of ordinary Spikes in the games these two appear in, that just leaves Clubbas/Spike Soldiers/Whatever You Wanna Call Them Depending On Region to represent them, and while they sure look distinct from other Clubbas, do they ''really'' look all that different that they're a different species altogether? The original trilogy of Paper Marios is no stranger to heavily altering the base design of species in the name of distinguishing characters; we don't think anyone is going to declare that [[Heff T.]] is not a Toad, but a fully new species, just because he has a fully unique head and body shape. And if they were truly meant to be Spikes all along, even in Japan, surely the pun-loving localization team would've come up with some Spike-related pun name, rather than base both of them on the Clubba name. We don't think the Japanese name was meant to be taken ''this'' literally. | | #{{User|Sparks}} Per my comment below. |
| <s>{{User|Sparks}} Per my comment below.</s>
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| ===Oppose=== | | ===Oppose=== |
| #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - I don't see no clubs, nor are these characters soldiers. They pun simply because they are the only Spikes present (and to be honest, with the slapdash localization jobs, they may have forgotten about what was at the time an obscure SMB3 enemy when naming these - note how SMW2 and YS ''also'' gave Spikes different names.) | | #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - I don't see no clubs, nor are these characters soldiers. They pun simply because they are the only Spikes present (and to be honest, with the slapdash localization jobs, they may have forgotten about what was at the time an obscure SMB3 enemy when naming these - note how SMW2 and YS ''also'' gave Spikes different names.) |
| #{{User|DrippingYellow}} I think what Doc's trying to get at is: Clubbas are called ガボンへい ("Spike Soldiers") in the Japanese version, suggesting that Clubbas might not even be a separate "species" per se; they're just Spikes with clubs. Tubba and Grubba are Spikes without clubs; ergo, not Clubbas. The naming connection in English definitely ought to be acknowledged, though, but that's easily mentioned in the intro, and there's also the "Comparable" section of the infobox for this sort of blurry connection.
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| #{{User|Jdtendo}} Per DrippingYellow
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| #{{User|Blinker}} Per all. <small>Minus the "slapdash" comment. Come on, they did a good job with the names.</small>
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| #{{User|Dark-Boy-1up}} Per Arend's comment.
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| #{{User|ReeceeYT}} Per all.
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| ===Comments=== | | ===Comments=== |
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| :[[File:SMW2 Spike.png|64x64px]] | | :[[File:SMW2 Spike.png|64x64px]] |
| :The dot eyes (and orange lips, for that matter) are a carryover from the SMW2 sprites, like so many other things from the first three ''Paper Mario'' games. Don't use modern designs in reference to a specific era. ...also, Tubba Blubba doesn't even ''have'' the dot eyes, he has black sclera and glowing pupils, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove there. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:09, February 7, 2024 (EST) | | :The dot eyes (and orange lips, for that matter) are a carryover from the SMW2 sprites, like so many other things from the first three ''Paper Mario'' games. Don't use modern designs in reference to a specific era. ...also, Tubba Blubba doesn't even ''have'' the dot eyes, he has black sclera and glowing pupils, so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove there. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:09, February 7, 2024 (EST) |
| ::You make a good point. I think their body structure resembles Clubbas more, but you're right about me to not compare modern designs with old ones. I have removed my vote. {{User:Sparks/sig}} 07:14, February 8, 2024 (EST)
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| ::It's worth noting that, for what it's worth, ordinary Spikes don't appear at all in the original trio of ''Paper Mario'' games; only Clubbas, and whatever Tubba Blubba and Grubba are. {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:11, February 8, 2024 (EST)
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| :::To expand on Doc's point, nearly all characters in the second trilogy are redesigned to more closely resemble their modern, non-paper appearance. Take Goombas, Spinies, and Hammer Bros, for instance:<br>[[File:GoombaSPM.png|42px]][[File:Goomba PMTOK sprite.png|50px]][[File:SPMSpiny.png|45px]][[File:Spiny PMTOK sprite.png|48px]][[File:Hamma Jamma.png|60px]][[File:Hammer Bro PMTOK sprite.png|65px]]<br>There's a non-zero chance that, if regular Spikes were to appear in the classic ''Paper Mario'' trilogy, they would look ''nearly identical'' to the Clubbas - just without the morningstar-esque club. Likewise, there's a non-zero chance that a Clubba in a modern ''Paper Mario'' title would look the same as a regular Spike. The ''Yoshi's Island'' sprite for Spike that Doc provided includes certain similarities to Clubba, such as the orange lips, dot eyes, and white stomach. And the longer tail and distinct arm shape/position could've been taken from this artwork for Spike in ''Super Mario Bros. 3'':<br>[[File:SMB3 Spike.jpg|150px]]<br>(The lighter green skin and white hair in this particular art are also notable, but those may also be miscolored when this was scanned, since [[:File:Iced Land.jpg|another art]] shows Spike with dark green skin and blue hair, and Spike's standalone artwork in particular looks more bleached than other SMB3 artwork) {{User:Arend/sig}} 18:54, February 8, 2024 (EST)
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| ::::It was simply inconsistent in regard to SMB3 art (much like Monty Mole's clashing SMW artwork), with later developers basically needing to pick a favorite until NSMBW streamlined the design by firmly establishing they are supposed to have blue hair, pink lips, and no distinct belly color (aside from Snow Spikes since they were introduced in the predecessor and have only really appeared in spinoffs since). [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:55, February 13, 2024 (EST)
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| We will say that we have no idea how the Japanese game text--or if indeed, any Japanese text at all--ever overtly compares these two to Spikes, instead of Clubbas. If there was some Japanese guide that expressly called these two Spikes (not Spike Soldiers, ''Spikes''), we'd be fine to retract our vote, but until then... {{User:Camwoodstock/sig}} 15:11, February 8, 2024 (EST)
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| :I mean, Clubbas ARE Spikes, so either way these two are Spikes, right? The question is whether they are also Clubbas. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 13:28, February 13, 2024 (EST)
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| ::Regarding the "slapdash" thing, I raise you [[Sky-Blue Spiny|Sky-Blue Pipe]]. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 14:52, February 13, 2024 (EST)
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| == From where did that "Club, meet Mario" quote come from? ==
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| I've played all the entierety of PM64 and I do not recall a Clubba saying that.--[[User:ToadMushroom823|ToadMushroom823]] ([[User talk:ToadMushroom823|talk]]) 12:21, December 18, 2024 (EST)
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| :Pretty sure that's if you make it appear in Shy Guy's Toy Box. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 12:51, December 18, 2024 (EST)
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| ::It sure is. {{User:Nightwicked Bowser/sig}} 14:00, December 18, 2024 (EST)
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