Editing Talk:Chomp Shark

==(First topic)==
This article should be deleted and merged with [[Incoming Chomp]]. It is the same thing and should be removed. Chomp Sharks only appear in ''[[Yoshi's Story]]''. Nonetheless, it is a Chomp so it stays in the [[Template:Chain Chomps]].{{User:Knife/sig}}

Hello?{{User:Knife/sig}}

Chomp Sharks appear in Yoshi's Island, too. Also, they are completely different from Incoming Chomps. They chase after Yoshi, harming him, unlike Incoming ones. [[User:3dejong|3D]]

==Big Chain Chomp==
According to the Japanese name, these are the same as the [[Big Chain Chomp]], or at least the one from ''[[Super Princess Peach]]'', which as that page notes, acts very similar to Chomp Shark, and given that game's many callbacks to the classic games, including ''Yoshi's Island'', it would make sense for them to be the same thing. Does anyone know what YNI calls these things? We may either merge all of these or move the ''SPP'' section over here, since this is a Chomp and the others are (mostly) Chain Chomps, making it less comparable a situation to Grand Goombas/Giant Goombas/Big Goombas/Kyodai Kuribou/Deka Kuribou and more akin to Big Goomba/Big Paragoomba. Either way, something should be done. The one in the sewers of ''PiT'' is also a Chomp, and unnamed, mayhaps it should be moved here as well? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:52, 8 December 2017 (EST)
:Despite it's Japanese name and visual appearance (it's a Chomp), it's not the same enemy. Never played ''SMW2'', but Chomp Sharks appear to be chasing the player and destroy terrain, whereas the one in ''Super Princess Peach'' just simply bounces in a set path. Don't know why the Big Chain Chomp article says they're similar, because they are not. {{User:Alex95/sig}} 11:09, 8 December 2017 (EST)
::In ''Yoshi's New Island'', World 4-6 is [[Chomp Shark Chase]] (Japanese: 「ビッグワンワンの 縄張り」 ''Biggu Wanwan no Nawabari'', or "Big Chain Chomp Territory"). It's still very likely that the ''Super Princess Peach'' enemy is a callback to ''Yoshi's Island'', given the vast majority of the game's standard enemies are returning ones except for the vibe versions (exceptions being the new [[Walruss]] and the [[Starfish]] [[Starfy|Stafy]] cameo, which are both wedged between the other enemies and the game's bosses in the in-game glossary anyway). I wouldn't favor an article merge over it, though. Maybe a section move if there's a good case for it. After all, ''Super Princess Peach'' '''did''' have a rather rough localization ([[Spike Top|Mecha-Spike Top]], [[Amazing Flyin' Hammer Brother|A. F. H. Bro]], [[Volcano Lotus|Volcano Plant]], [[Kaboomba|Cannon]], [[Petey Piranha|Boss P. Plant]], [[Giant Kamek|a Kamek]], [[Talk:Giant_Bowser#A_Quandary|Bowser 2]]...). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:20, 8 December 2017 (EST)
:::Late response, but yes, that's what I was suggesting. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 04:11, 12 May 2018 (EDT)
::::I'd agree to merge the Big Chain Chomp section with the Chomp Shark. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 04:00, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
::::Agree on the callback, slightly iffy but would probably vote yes on a merge, the names do act as a strong indication. --{{User:Lord Grammaticus/sig}} 05:34, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
:::::They act completely different.
*Chomp Shark is several times bigger than the SPP one.
*The SPP one just falls down cliffs, while Chomp Shark actively chases Yoshi.
*Same Japanese name does not mean a merge.
:::::These are two different enemies, and they shouldn't be merged. {{User:TheDarkStar/sig}} 12:50, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
::::::Thing is, though, every non-emotional enemy other than Walruss and Starfy is a direct callback to an enemy from SMB3, SMW, or SMW2. When the name's the same and a striking majority of the other enemies are from that specific timeframe, it's hard to not draw connections. Besides, enemies commonly have different behaviors in different games, look at how many behaviors Cheep Cheeps have gone through. In that very game, Boo Man Bluff, another SMW2 enemy, had a totally different behavior than it originally did; in fact, its behavior is basically that of the original Chomp Shark. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 16:24, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
:::::See, that whole thing is what has me iffy. Like, how to proceed with that when they share a name but little else. --{{User:Lord Grammaticus/sig}} 22:25, July 20, 2019 (EDT)
::::::When said name is just "Big {Chain} Chomp" and what they are is essentially a giant Chain Chomp, the specifics of the behavior aren't totally relevant, like how Big Goombas can sometimes split. At any rate, Nintendo seems to want it separate from the enemies that are ''actually'' just large-scale Chain Chomps like the one in Odyssey, which the SPP one does not follow. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 22:40, July 20, 2019 (EDT)

Bumping this. It must be said that with [[Big Boo#Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars|one main exception]], "Biggu" is both mostly unique to entities from the YI series and (if the Palutena's Guidance for Piranha Plant is anything to go by) is considered a separate identifier than the Kyodai/Dai/Deka-system for "big." [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, December 1, 2019 (EST)
:Also, it's a Chomp, because it doesn't have a chain. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 12:00, February 7, 2020 (EST)
::The Chomp/Chain Chomp point is [[Talk:Chain Chomp (unchained)#Merge to Chain Chomp|moot]], but it must be pointed out that in the recent ''Super Mario Bros. 5: Yossy Island'' prototypes, 「ビッグワンワン」 (''Biggu Wanwan'', Chomp Shark) is referred to as 「きょだいワンワン」 (''Kyodai Wanwan'', Giant Chain Chomp) in an early [[tcrf:Proto:Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island/ys romX 0#World 3|course title]] (the course had a Chomp Shark icon and featured one before entering the fort). This is contrary to the idea that ''Biggu'' is completely separate from the ''Kyodai''/''Dai''/''Deka'', and may support Viridi separating ''Biggu'' as a boss entity (Naval Piranha). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:15, August 5, 2020 (EDT)
:::Thing is, the in-game YNI/PMSS name difference seems to indicate they are at least currently considered different from each other. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 00:30, August 5, 2020 (EDT)
::::Not necessarily; recall that ''Kyodai'' (localized as "Mega") is still being used with regularity outside of the main platformers, which use ''Deka'' ("Big"), despite essentially referring to the same thing. Enemies like Big/Mega Goomba, Big/Mega Blooper, etc. are named as such depending on the series. The closest to different names of bigness even appearing for the same enemy simultaneously is Hefty Goomba (''Kodeka'', basically "Mini-Big"), which was added as a size between regular and Big Goomba. If anything, this explains why the ''Super Princess Peach'' version of Chomp Shark was so different - it's simply a reinterpretation of the returning large Chain Chomp concept, altered to suit the gameplay, much like other big enemies having changes over time like Big Goomba and Big Wiggler. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:35, August 5, 2020 (EDT)
:::::Something I overlooked that may be relevant - the Japanese name of the course "Watch Out Below!" in the final version uses the phrase 「きょだいワンワン」 (''Kyodai Wanwan'', Giant Chain Chomp), but this is in reference to Incoming Chomp, not Chomp Shark. Incoming Chomp is technically a size between the game's Chain Chomp and Shark Chomp, making both "Big Chomps" of sorts. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:42, October 20, 2020 (EDT)

I suggest we should split those articles. We could for example make a page called "Big Chomp" (as mentioned before, it is not a Big Chain Chomp, because it is chainless) or "Chomp Shark (Super Princess Peach) like we do with articles with a name colliding with each other, therefore making a disambiguation page too. --{{User:Flame Runner Funky Kong/sig}} 15:55, October 19, 2020 (EDT)--{{User:Flame Runner Funky Kong/sig}} 14:26, October 19, 2020 (EDT)
:The instance of "Big Chain Chomp" in ''Super Princess Peach'' was previously determined to be a misnamed Chomp Shark via a [[Talk:Big Chain Chomp#Do what the above section header indicates and merge to Chomp Shark|different proposal]], so I'm not sure what you mean by splitting. The question here is whether the partial merge should be a full merge, considering [[Talk:Chain Chomp (unchained)#Merge to Chain Chomp|Chomp/Chain Chomp]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:42, October 20, 2020 (EDT)

== Artwork ==
Any proof that the SMW2 art is for a Chomp Shark specifically and not just the Chomp enemies in general from the game? [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:35, 16 August 2018 (EDT)
:Yeah I feel like the perspective of it makes it reference the Chomps in the background than anything. If they specifically wanted to reference Chomp Sharks, they would go for a side-view chasing Yoshi or it with its teeth broken or something. {{User:Baby Luigi/sig}} 22:47, July 20, 2019 (EDT)