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| I don't think this is called a Cheep-Chomp. It probably is a [[Big Bertha (fish)]] or a [[Boss Bass]]. It does have one tooth and some shoot [[Baby Cheep]]s just like the two other big fish. The only difference is the color. I think this is too similiar to be a separate specie. I'll leave it for now until someone finds an official name.--[[User Talk:Knife|Spike]][[Image:Spike Shield Badge PM.png]] | | I don't think this is called a Cheep-Chomp. It probably is a [[Big Bertha (fish)]] or a [[Boss Bass]]. It does have one tooth and some shoot [[Baby Cheep]]s just like the two other big fish. The only difference is the color. I think this is too similiar to be a separate specie. I'll leave it for now until someone finds an official name.--[[User Talk:Spike|Spike]][[Image:Spike_sheild_badge.PNG]] |
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| :I believe this is the official name (and as such is a seperate enemy). If someone has the Player's Guide it would be very helpful (as all the enemies in the game are listed in it). -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] | | :I believe this is the official name (and as such is a seperate enemy). If someone has the Player's Guide it would be very helpful (as all the enemies in the game are listed in it). -- [[User: Son of Suns|Son of Suns]] |
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| ::Huh, yeah you are right. According to this [http://mfgg.net/index.php?act=resdb¶m=03&c=1&id=6530 site] it is named "Cheep-Chomp".[[User Talk:Knife|Spike]][[Image:Spike Shield Badge PM.png]] | | ::Huh, yeah you are right. According to this [http://mfgg.net/index.php?act=resdb¶m=03&c=1&id=6530 site] it is named "Cheep-Chomp".[[User Talk:Spike|Spike]][[Image:Spike_sheild_badge.PNG]] |
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| If these are Cheep-Chomps, then what are the aquatic Chomps that bite you for one damage when you fall in the water in [[Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door]]? {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}} | | If these are Cheep-Chomps, then what are the aquatic Chomps that bite you for one damage when you fall in the water in [[Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door]]? {{User:Dry Paratroopa/sig}} |
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| :Also, the [[Bub (enemy)|Bub]] enemy from ''Super Mario 64'' is indeed a Cheep Cheep like in the Japanese version and [[Cheep Cheep Chase|their appearance]] in ''Mario Party 3'', which further explains why their designs were "replaced" in ''Super Mario 64 DS''. At the very least, I think that deserves a merge considering they ''were'' called Cheep Cheeps in the English version of the latter game. (I've also checked in [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/index.html this extensive ''Mario'' series dictionary], and it reaches the [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/dr.cgi?key=509 same] [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/dr.cgi?key=2190 conclusion] as the above.) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:30, 21 October 2014 (EDT) | | :Also, the [[Bub (enemy)|Bub]] enemy from ''Super Mario 64'' is indeed a Cheep Cheep like in the Japanese version and [[Cheep Cheep Chase|their appearance]] in ''Mario Party 3'', which further explains why their designs were "replaced" in ''Super Mario 64 DS''. At the very least, I think that deserves a merge considering they ''were'' called Cheep Cheeps in the English version of the latter game. (I've also checked in [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/index.html this extensive ''Mario'' series dictionary], and it reaches the [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/dr.cgi?key=509 same] [http://honndana.sakura.ne.jp/mario/dr.cgi?key=2190 conclusion] as the above.) [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 14:30, 21 October 2014 (EDT) |
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| ==Merge Big Bertha, Boss Bass, and Bubba with Cheep Chomp== | | == Merge Big Bertha, Boss Bass, and Bubba with Cheep Chomp == |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | |
| {{Proposal outcome|red|do not merge 4-10}}
| | {{TPP}} |
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| That's quite a mouthful, isn't it? Well, it just so transpired that all these enemy characters (more or less) went under the same name in Japan, they're all hungry fish of similar shape and size, and the former three have been dropped out of recent games in favor of the latter. Cheep Chomp is like a unifier of older designs to begin with, so barring some attachment to the original localized names, this makes sense. Speaking of which... | | That's quite a mouthful, isn't it? Well, it just so transpired that all these enemy characters (more or less) went under the same name in Japan, they're all hungry fish of similar shape and size, and the former three have been dropped out of recent games in favor of the latter. Cheep Chomp is like a unifier of older designs to begin with, so barring some attachment to the original localized names, this makes sense. Speaking of which... |
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| *Enemy appearance? They have mostly remained unchanged in the franchise, but there are expections. The biggest one, other than Boss Bass/Big Bertha/Bubba/Cheep Chomp, is Thwomp. It went through quite a many changes until getting its current look, and even that varies. Mostly in 2D games, it's got spikes on its edges. In 3D games, it's instead a frame... thingy. | | *Enemy appearance? They have mostly remained unchanged in the franchise, but there are expections. The biggest one, other than Boss Bass/Big Bertha/Bubba/Cheep Chomp, is Thwomp. It went through quite a many changes until getting its current look, and even that varies. Mostly in 2D games, it's got spikes on its edges. In 3D games, it's instead a frame... thingy. |
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| So really, I believe this is why these pages should be merged. The Japanese names are the original names (usually) and thus I give them priority when considering potential linked enemies. The English names may be different, but in the end, they are just English names. Not really something that should recieve priority over the original Japanese names (expect according to the rules of this wiki). I also don't get these concerns about having a same thing split into different articles because of a different function, even if a link exists. Personal bias, can't understand or yet another wiki policy? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 09:11, 20 January 2015 (EST) | | So really, I believe this is why these pages should be merged. The Japanese names are the original names (usually) and thus I give them priority when considering potential linked enemies. The English names may be different, but in the end, they are just English names. Not really something that should recieve priority over the original Japanese names (expect according to the rules of this wiki). I also don't get these concerns about having a same thing split into different articles because of a different function, even if a link exists. Personal bias, can't understand or yet another wiki policy? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 09:11, 20 January 2015 (EST) |
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| :That's the gist of it. In hindsight, perhaps I could have given my opening statement better wording since it looks like a fair share of the opposers didn't seem to fully understand the arguments (one exception I'll deem worthy is the very first opposing point about Baby Cheeps, the main rebuttal of which I can honestly come up with besides slightly deviating traits is the admittedly weak in comparison "can't we just roll with that?"). Really, while this is probably best on a case-by-case basis, it's not like a deeper look at localization inconsistency [[Goby|has]] [[Shy Away|not]] [[Bub|already]] [[Atomic Boo#Paper Mario series|merged]] ([[Para-Goomba (Mario Clash)|or]] [[King Boo (Super Mario Sunshine)|sometimes]] [[Dry Bones (Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga)|even]] [[Rocky Wrench (Super Mario Galaxy)|split]]) articles in the past. This might've been a tall order since it dealt with more than two articles, but overall, I can't help but be a bit disappointed that this didn't at least end up being a closer call... [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 13:11, 22 January 2015 (EST)
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| == Merge Cheep Chomp and Boss Bass ==
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| {{Settled TPP}}
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| {{Proposal outcome|red|do not merge 2-10}}
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| Cheep Chomps look (with the exception of color) and act exactly the same as Boss Bass, have the same Japanese name (based on [[Bessie Bass]]), and notably appeared around the same time that Boss Bass stopped appearing.
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|Binarystep}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': June 24, 2015, 23:59 GMT
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| ===Support===
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| #{{User|Binarystep}} Per proposal.
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| #{{User|LinkTheLefty}} Per this proposal and the above one (minus grouping Big Bertha together since it's considered mouth-brooding, as well as Bubba since that's already accomplished with Boss Bass).
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| ===Oppose===
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| #{{User|Tails777}} Aside from the Japanese name (which as far as I'm concerned is the only name that is the same) and their similar actions, they have little to no real similarities. Cheep Chomp may be a replacement for Boss Bass, but that doesn't mean merge them for it. Two different sub species with similar actions is still two different sub species. We gonna merge Goombo and Goomba just because they act similar? I'd think not. So yeah, per Time Turner below me.
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| #{{User|Time Turner}} Honestly, all of these merges regarding the fish enemies have left a bad taste in my mouth since they've started, like [[Bubba]], [[Bub (enemy)|Bub]], [[Flopsy Fish]], and who knows what else. For the moment, I'll stick to this one; the closest thing we have to proof is a different name in another language ([[Snufit|which I will always argue isn't enough]], and using Bessie Bash to justify it is going way too far) and similar behaviour ([[Gloomba|which]] [[Big Boo|is]] [[Beach Koopa|par]] [[Glad Red Koopa|for]] [[Goombo|the]] the [[:Category:Dark Enemies|course]]), and these are not definite enough for me. There's nothing absolutely ''definite'' to say that the Cheep Chomp is the same enemy as the Boss Bass. However, the biggest reason I disagree is for one simple question: ''why?'' What do we gain by lumping all of these fish into a select few articles? It's technically simpler for navigation, but heck, we can merge any number of articles to make it simpler for navigation, but convenience to the reader is lost. Someone who searches for Flopsy Fish, something that appears entirely distinctly from Cheep Cheeps, is going to be confused as to why they show up in the article for Cheep Cheeps with seemingly no reason, with the article claiming that Flopsy Fish are actually Cheep Cheeps, and personally, it's something I find jarring. This is especially true if they're searching through [https://www.google.ca/search?q=flopsy+fish&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:%7Breferrer:source?%7D&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADRA_enCA482&gfe_rd=cr&ei=UrV4VZvDOYON8QfKrYCIBA&gws_rd=ssl Google]; there's a tiny blurb that gives no context to where the information is located, and the link brings them straight to the top. Wanna read about Flopsy Fish? Too bad! Every single other source is going to act like these enemies are entirely separate from all the enemies that you're merging them to, which is subsequently passed on to our potential readers, and this whole process really just serves to create confusion. Have some faith in the English translators, by the way; regardless of what the Spanish or German or even Japanese names are, I'm pretty sure that the English guys know what they're doing (SMRPG notwithstanding), which is of special relevance to us because we are an ''English'' wiki. We've gone too far down the rabbit hole, and I want out.
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| #{{User|TheHelper100}} Per Tails777 and Time Turner, also Cheep Chomps and Boss Basses are drastically different from each other with very little similarities they're only similar by eating the player whole and instantly killing them Boss Basses jumps something [[Spike Bass]]es and [[Porcupuffer]]s would do, Cheep Chomps are purple and are never found in the surface and they don't jump, so it's safe to say that Cheep Chomps and Boss Basses shouldn't be merged.
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| #{{User|LudwigVon}} Per all. Boss Bass appear in Mario Kart DS and Yoshi's Island DS which was released in 2005 and 2006, not long before the first appearance of Cheep Chomp in New Super Mario Bros. DS in 2006. I don't think Nintendo change the color of the same enemy suddenly in only one year or less.
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| #{{User|PowerKamek}} Per all. This is about the same as the last proposal you did.
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| #{{User|Walkazo}} - Per Time Turner. I've supported my fair share of merges over the years, but the recent trend is troubling. I [[Talk:Bubba|only]] abstained [[Talk:Flopsy_Fish|from]] the [[Talk:Bub_(enemy)|fish]] TTPs he mentioned before, because I didn't think my general misgivings about merges was enough reason to oppose and get sucked into yet another big debate, but yeah, let's make a stand now. There is ''nothing wrong'' with having lots of little articles about slightly different takes on enemies: thoroughness in niche wikis is ''good'' as long as it doesn't get silly, and splits on an English site based on different English names, when backed up by design and/or behavioural differences more significant than the likes of RPG enemy palette-swaps, is ''not'' silly. A small handful of extra one-off appearances pages ''does no harm'': just use {{tem|main}} on the parent page and you're set for navigation, and having the separate names ensures we get all the search traffic and don't risk frustrating readers with redirects where they expect articles. And merging recurring enemies like this seems even more unnecessary: there was one enemy design for a while, and then that was replaced by another enemy design and another name in at least one language, so why ''not'' have pages about both? Now, if Cheep Chomp ever came in Boss bass colours, or vice-versa, then ''maybe'' it could be more like the multicoloured-yet-singular-species Cheep Cheep, but no, it's not: it's a solid divide, and personally, as a biologist, I agree with the English namers in that they're different species. And I'm sure a lot of non-biologist gamers, who may or may not even care about the Japanese names, feel the same way, and will wonder why the Super Mario Wiki of all places doesn't have a page for something as basic as a "Boss Bass".
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| #{{User|Lumastar}} Per all. Also, a few things. First, I may be wrong but as far as I know Boss Basses have never made the sound that a Cheep Chomp makes when chomping. Second, aside from Super Mario 64 (DS) and non-canon material Boss Basses are known to jump out of the water to attack while Cheep Chomps don't. Heck, in the non-remade former they weren't even called Boss Basses, possibly due to their different behavior and appearance confusing the developers. I guess you could also say that Cheep Chomps may be a bit more aggressive in their approach.
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| #{{User|Pyro Guy}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Bazooka Mario}} While they both share their Japanese names and have the same bad tendency to eat Mario, guts and bones and all, they also possess more than just a few differences including coloration, body shape, and even some behavior. Cheep Chomp does act like the Boss Bass in Super Mario 64 and its remake, true, but Boss Bass and Cheep Chomp behavioral differences are more prominent between 2D platformers. Boss Bass tries to leap and devour while Cheep Chomp only tries to devour if Mario is nearby. By keeping them, split, however, we're making the fewest assumptions. So, per proposal and [[Wikipedia:Occam's razor|Occam's razor]].
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| #{{User|Marshal Dan Troop}} Per all.
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| ===Comments===
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| Cheep Chomps feel like their own species though. They're much different than Boss Bass. Walkazo stated earlier that Cheep Cheep have color variety, but Cheep Chomps are consistently purple with green fins. While it's a point that Cheep Chomps replaced Boss Bass and they share the Japanese name, I'm still a bit iffy on the merge. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:10, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :I don't think Cheep Chomps replacing Boss Bass is a good merging point. They are still different Cheep-Cheep sub species. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
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| @Mario - Since we also count Bubba as Boss Bass after a [[Talk:Bubba|previous proposal]] that factored in ''Super Mario 64'' /''DS'', a little color variety (red and orange/yellow) is fine. Redesigns like this are almost like shell colors, and if you compare the SM64DS and NSMB models, they're extremely similar to the point of basically being a mere recolor. Keep in mind that the ''New Super Mario Bros.'' games modernized/standardized the roles and revised/updated the designs of a few of the older enemies, which generally carried over into spinoff titles: for example, Big Goombas now split into multiple Goombas (which is going to be a trait in ''Mario Maker''), Piranha Plants are now more commonly seen outside pipes, Rocky Wrenches now look almost exactly like Monty Moles, Fish Bones now home on in Mario, etc. The major difference between a Boss Bass and Cheep Chomp in the platformers is that Boss Bass skim along the surface and Cheep Chomp dwell deeper underwater, but in ''Sticker Star'', ''Island Tour'' and ''Mario Party 10'', Cheep Chomp act just like Boss Bass in this regard.
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| @Tails - The question is whether or not they're the same species ("sub species" is almost certainly antiquated), not that they're different but are being merged for the heck of it. Most opposing votes were more directed towards Big Bertha and Bubba, which aren't in question at this juncture. What exactly is it about Boss Bass and Cheep Chomp that you think makes them a separate species? [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 18:00, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :Their appearance for one is different, but my main point is similar actions doesn't necessarily mean we should merge them. In all honesty though, I'm pretty sure Time Turner summed it all up. {{User:Tails777/sig}}
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| ::Man, if that's a summary, I'd hate to see what the full text looks like. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
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| :::I've read the entire thing. LinktheLefty, not only are Cheep Chomps consistently purple, they have a slightly different design. I was about to add on to that, but the color was the first thing that struck me. As I said, the color variant argument doesn't work as well here because we haven't seen Cheep Chomps in a different color. I feel it's like merging [[Deep Cheep]] since the only difference is that they have angry eyes, although Deep Cheeps do have a different Japanese name. {{User:Mario/sig}} 18:41, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| @TT The Flopsy Fish merge is a very horrible example of why merges are bad, considering the obscurity of the "Flopsy Fish" name and their appearance, most people likely think of them as Cheep Cheeps anyway. Besides, this is a wiki, we should be as ''factually correct'' as possible, not allow a bit of misinformation here and there because of nostalgia and fanon. [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 18:34, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :Ah, yes, because I was referencing fanon and nostalgia, which is especially applicable because Flopsy Fish ''didn't'' appear in a [[Yoshi's New Island|2014 game]] and Cheep Chomp ''didn't'' appear in a [[Mario Party 10|2015 game]], ''constantly'' to justify my vote, right (seriously, what are you talking about)? Also, the Flopsy Fish name shows up in, at the ''very'' least, the official guide for the game, which might not be the absolute most imperative source, but it's hardly some long-forgotten website in a foreign language. Speaking of, you're using the Japanese name of a pretty-much unrelated boss in ''Yoshi's Island DS'' to justify this merge, so "obscurity" probably shouldn't be a point you're bringing up. I'll also throw in a <sup>[''citation needed'']</sup> for most people believing them to be different enemies, which kinda goes against what you're saying about sticking solely with the facts and not people's opinion. Besides that, though, ''what'' misinformation? As I've said, all you're going on are names in other languages and similar appearances, and I've already pointed out that those two bits of information are not the be-all and end-all for deciding what to do. The fact is that going about this as "factually" as possible involves leaving them separate, since you have no actual, decisive, definite proof that the two enemies are one and the same. You could say that you're making logical connections, but I say that you're connecting a dot on Earth to a dot on Pluto; people have different opinions on how to interpret what's available to us, and with nothing definite, the only way decisions can be made is by basically going with personal opinion (though while still being guided by the actual information), just as it happened with [[Talk:Boss Bass|Boss Bass]] and [[Talk:Parabuzzy|Parabuzzy]]. You say tomato, I say tomahto, and I highly doubt that we're going to convince each other to say the other word. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
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| ::Uh, are they actually ''called'' "Flopsy Fish" in ''New Island''? [[User:Binarystep|Binarystep]] ([[User talk:Binarystep|talk]]) 19:40, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| One more question: that Boss Bass has been replaced in favor of Cheep Chomp, would it better assume that it's a different species replacing a different species or would it be a redesign and a rename? I believe the different species one uses much less assumptions though, but the strongest argument the merge has, I believe, is that Cheep Chomp essentially replaced Boss Bass's role, although Cheep Chomps are less aggressive (they don't jump out and eat you, at least not in New Super Mario Bros.). So uh, the proposal saying that they act "exactly the same", no, it's not "exactly the same", only similar. "Exactly the same" has redundant words too. {{User:Mario/sig}} 19:38, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::@Time Turner - No offense, but ''my'' summary of your tirade is: "''I'm tired of this, so why should I care?''" While an emotion-driven response such as that is not unrelatable, it's not really a particularly rational point to make in the discussion. Complaining about other proposals breaking established traditions isn't going to reverse them, nor should it have an affect on current ones. Besides, even if this is an English wiki, ''Mario'' is ''not'' conventionally developed in English, and we say to not strictly adhere to only one of the localizations at face value.
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| ::@Mario - I'm really not seeing any noticeable differences in the enemy design besides coloration and maybe mild clarity. These are the DS appearances in 3D I'm looking at: ''[[:File:BigBerthaDS.png|Super Mario 64 DS]]'', ''[[:File:BossBassDS.png|Mario Kart DS]]'', and ''[[:File:CheepChompNSMB.png|New Super Mario Bros.]]''
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| ::@TheHelper - [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehpD1oCtZ-k Here's one example of some jumping Cheep Chomp on the water surface,] which I've already mentioned just before...
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| ::@LudwigVon - ''Mario Kart DS'' as a counter to change is irrelevant since as you state it was released before ''New Super Mario Bros.'', and ''Yoshi's Island DS'' is unlike ''Yoshi's New Island'' in that it doesn't try too hard to fit 2D enemies in the modern aesthetic. Time between appearances also isn't always a factor in a design - for instance, the point that Ukiki started consistently appearing in a design closer to ''Yoshi's Island'' over ''Super Mario 64'' was in ''Mario Party 7'', after three other appearances within the same year.
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| ::@Binarystep - I'm not sure why you referenced Bessie Bass specifically in your proposal, but for the record, the names work as follows: ''Kyodai Pukupuku'' (Giant Cheep Cheep) is the name of both Boss Bass and Big Bertha in Japanese ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' guides (which we've sourced in those respective articles), Bubba refers to ''two'' enemies (one which was just an [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4-O-rmdi-E&t=3m45s ordinary Cheep Cheep] from the first ''Mario Party'' and the other being what's called ''Baku Baku'' in Japan), the Boss Bass design returned in ''Yoshi's Island DS'' and was known as ''Baku Baku'' rather than Kyodai Pukupuku (possibly to differentiate from the MIA Big Bertha), and the Cheep Chomp has the same name as the SM64 Bubba and the YIDS Boss Bass (also documented in its article). Simply put, two major redesigns and one rename that go full circle, all associated with the same basic function and rough silhouette of an enemy. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 19:45, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :::Oh, you do ''not'' get to just dismiss all my points just because you think I'm being "emotional" and not actually reply in any way, '''''especially''''' when there are numerous people that agree with me so clearly you shouldn't just throw it out. I find that incredibly rude and disrespectful to not only me, but to everyone else that perred me as well, since they're all following my reason just like I am, and to brush off all of us is something I will become extremely emotional for. Also, see my reply to Binary's comment; there's that bit about tomatoes that I think is relevant here. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
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| ::::I'm sorry, but that really ''is'' honestly how I read your whole chunk of vote... Since you say your mind is "mush", I'll believe I'm just horribly mistaken about your intended message from when you typed it out. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 20:10, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :::::And again, you ignore everything I've said. I have a bad headache and I can't concentrate properly, you got me there, but for crying out loud, you didn't even attempt to give a rebuttal because I'm being "emotional," and even ''that's'' absolutely no excuse to just dismiss everything I've written. Besides me, there are other people that clearly agree with me. What are they, chopped liver? If you're unwilling to argue with me, argue with ''them'' at the very least. {{User:Time Turner/sig}}
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| ::::::The vote's more like "''I'm tired of this, so I'm gonna try and stop it from happening here too based on X, Y and Z reasons''", which is a legit stance, not some irrational, emotional tirade, and I personally had no trouble following it, "mush" quip be damned. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 20:32, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::::::@Time Turner - What I saw when I read your vote in particular is something that could've stood to use the restraint of brevity to address the point, but the bottom line I took, also judging from the clear tinge I sensed over mostly unrelated proposals, is that you were more interested in declaring "''enough is enough''" rather than countering the arguments presented ''here'' or otherwise contributing to this weeks-long topic. Basically, more "''I disagree because I disagree with this 'merging' thing and I don't like it''" and less "''I disagree because I disagree with the supporting points and/or have information & rationale to back me up''" (which, when you did that previously, helped me to eventually come around with the position of Big Bertha a while back). I get that some people express disdain with the latest renewed proposals (which shouldn't be done unless something significant can be brought to the table), but this ''shouldn't'' be confused with one of those. This isn't the same proposal verbatim or repurposed - the Big Bertha and Bubba aspects bogged consensus and are eliminated, so there's no reason to look down upon this as a quick retread. Users have the freedom to propose merging/splitting changes in ways they feel are accurate and beneficial, so while redundancies are upsetting, it doesn't need to be lambasted in general. Again, maybe you articulated it in a way that I misinterpreted the full meaning, and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone...but when you conclude that we've "gone too far down the rabbit hole, and I want out," what exactly is the ''aim'' and ''connotation'' of that statement? ... Anyway, I almost want to suggest again to drop everything until ''Mario Maker'' is out, but at this rate, I almost expect it to still be met with resistance in the event that it or a future title provides clearer answers just because of the growing negativity towards certain merging. <small>To clarify, when you open by saying the facts aren't definite enough for you, that reason is absolutely fair and I can't have any gripes with it. Basically everything from "the biggest reason" to "I want out" is what my response is directed towards. I've replied to everyone else involved so far (including correcting Binarystep), so it's not like I haven't been "unwilling to argue" today - I just have trouble completely understanding why ''that'' reason is a legit focus in ''this'' discussion.</small>
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| ::::::@Walkazo - You added that the colors of Boss Bass and Cheep Chomp are meant to show a clear, definite divide. I don't know specifically what kind of fish Cheep Cheep are designed after (if one was even in mind at all), but the ''Super Mario 64 Player's Guide'' describes Bub as a "[[wikipedia:Koi|koi]]" - with that in consideration, since purple and red Cheep Cheep are uncontroversially deemed one and the same, wouldn't it stand to reason that "big brother" Boss Bass/Bubba/Cheep Chomp/whatever can have similar color variations and still be considered the same species? (I realize that the word may have had very little thought put into it, but let's assume for the moment that koi is their real-world equivalent). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 22:10, 10 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::::::@Lumastar - [[MarioWiki:Canonicity|Keep in mind the wiki's stance on canon]] (also, sound effects were always kind of a weak aspect - generations of hardware, Piranha Plants audibly chomping as well, etc.). [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 00:26, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :::::::As I said, don't Cheep Chomps also have a different design that coincides with their purple and green coloration? These have disproportionately larger lips, a different overall shape, and closed eyes, whereas Boss Bass look like simply big Cheep Cheeps with closed eyes. They've also consistently appeared like this. Not only that, I've also said that these don't normally jump out of the water to kill you, but they try to eat you if you go too close. It's like a successor to the Boss Bass in Super Mario 64/DS, but it's one game, and I think we're making less assumptions by keeping them split. {{User:Mario/sig}} 02:16, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::::::::Don't forget that going by the Japanese versions, Cheep Chomps also appeared in ''Yoshi's Island DS''. That would mean Cheep Chomps are renamed Boss Basses and have adapted Boss Basses' appearance and behaviour. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 05:06, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
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| :::::::::I think that's an isolated incidence, though. Again, though, the information is fine the way it is right now, I think. The Japanese name would just add more to the confusion. {{User:Mario/sig}} 17:28, 12 June 2015 (EDT)
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| @Time Turner - So you think that Flopsy Fish merged with Cheep Cheep is going to give readers who are accustomed to see them as separate enemies a hard time to search for info here? Then inform them better. For example, how about creating "Name origin and history" section that gives an explanation for the English name, the Japanese name, and lists all the enemies with English names which share this same Japanese name? ''Mario'' series originates from Japan, after all. In spite of this wiki focusing on English material (especially American), we still have to deal with worldwide information from different languages. I also see Flopsy Fish merged with Cheep Cheep as a benefical alternate example to deliver info, because it will generate discussion about the information, its accuracy, and how accurate the localizers are, which may lead us to new pieces of info we may not have noticed before. [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|Talk]]) ([[User:SmokedChili/Thoughts Page|Thoughts]]) 05:19, 11 June 2015 (EDT)
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| ::::::::::Related to he colour discussion, while Cheep Cheep themselves are heterogeneous, in many other cases, one of the aspects that distinguish various other related species like [[Deep Cheep]] and [[Eep Cheep]] is colour, in addition to behaviour and name. And seeing as a name change and slight behaviour change accompanies the colour change going from Boss Bass to Cheep Chomp, I'm more inclined to rule that this is one of the (more common) "colours = different" situations. - {{User:Walkazo/sig}} 12:40, 20 June 2015 (EDT)
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| == The sound they make? ==
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| What's up with the strange noise they make when their mouths are open? Does it mean they're sucking in water in attempt to eat Mario? Or, is it just a strange noise that they do as a warning that you're too close?
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| == Name source ==
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| The page is called Cheep Chomp, which comes from a Prima guide. But it also states that a Nintendo Power guide called it Cheep-Chomp. Shouldn't Nintendo Power be trusted over Prima since it is made by Nintendo? [[File:DarkBowserBIS.png|35px]][[User:DarkBowser777|<span style="font-family:serif;color:darkblue">DarkBowser777</span>]]([[User talk:DarkBowser777|talk]])[[File:Dreamy Bowser idle.png|35px]] 13:21, 7 July 2018 (EDT)
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| :While it is higher on the [[SMW:NAMING#Acceptable sources for naming|naming policy]], the name "Cheep Chomp" is used in games as well, such as the minigame name [[Mega Cheep Chomp's Shell Shock]] and the instructions for [[Cheep Diamonds]], so it should be the name used. --{{User:TheFlameChomp/sig}} 13:28, 7 July 2018 (EDT)
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| Oh, I see. So there should be more citations showing where it comes from, right? [[File:DarkBowserBIS.png|35px]][[User:DarkBowser777|<span style="font-family:serif;color:darkblue">DarkBowser777</span>]]([[User talk:DarkBowser777|talk]])[[File:Dreamy Bowser idle.png|35px]] 14:44, 7 July 2018 (EDT)
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| :In-game sources typically don't need citing, barring things that occur very rarely. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:10, 7 July 2018 (EDT)
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| == Split Mega Cheep Chomp from this article? ==
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| Should we split Mega Cheep Chomp from this article for consistency with other big enemies? --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 05:10, July 15, 2019 (EDT)
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| :See [[Big Goomba]], as an example. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 13:39, July 16, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::I'm still expecting an answer. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 06:04, July 25, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::Since we're dealing with oversized Mario Party bosses, [[Mega Blooper]] might be a better example, but unlike Mega Blooper, this thing hasn't been in more games and doesn't have its own bio. Do note that the ''other'' enemies also have mega versions like Sledge Bro., Monty Mole, and even Mechakoopa, and they all seem one-off and restricted within context of the game they appear in. It's pretty hairy to navigate big enemies in the franchise, but Mega Goomba is pretty well established and shown with regular sized Goombas. This? Eh. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 14:57, July 25, 2019 (EDT)
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| ::::Mega Sledge Bro was a mislocalization, as every other country (including its country of origin) consider it to be a normal Sledge Bro, unlike Mega Cheep Chomp and Mega Blooper. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 15:48, July 25, 2019 (EDT)
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| :::::Every other country? The Spanish (NOA) localization refers to the creature as a "mega Sledge Bro.". And this isn't applicable for MechaKoopa or Monty Mole, though. Also, I note that Mega Blooper is grouped with things like Petey Piranha, Bowser, King Boo, and Kamek while Mega Cheep Chomp is grouped with all the other generic bosses. Also, are we still really playing that "country of origin takes precedence" card again? {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 17:00, July 25, 2019 (EDT)
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| == Boss Basses ==
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| Is there any proof that the Boss Basses in SM64(DS), MKDS, and Yoshi's Island DS are the same as Cheep Chomps? There doesn't seem to be a source for it. {{User:Obsessive Mario Fan/sig}} 14:50, September 13, 2019 (EDT)
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| :They're Bakubaku. That's all there is to it. SM64DS conflated the designs, but they're still distinct from the original Boss Bass. Them being called "Boss Bass" in YIDS is an understandable flub due to the appearance and behavior being given to them. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 15:09, September 13, 2019 (EDT)
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