Editing Talk:Chargin' Chuck
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== Split the Chargin' Chuck variants == | == Split the Chargin' Chuck variants == | ||
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Okay, why are the unique ''Super Mario World'' variants merged? I mean, if we have [[Template:Shy Guys|similar behavioral variants of Shy Guys split out]], than there should be no excuse here. Since the ''Nintendo Mania'' guide names all but two different variants of Chargin' Chuck, I propose that we split out every variant, with a certain exception expanded on in the options below. | Okay, why are the unique ''Super Mario World'' variants merged? I mean, if we have [[Template:Shy Guys|similar behavioral variants of Shy Guys split out]], than there should be no excuse here. Since the ''Nintendo Mania'' guide names all but two different variants of Chargin' Chuck, I propose that we split out every variant, with a certain exception expanded on in the options below. | ||
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== Consider a variation of [[Boom Boom]]? == | == Consider a variation of [[Boom Boom]]? == | ||
{{talk}} | |||
In their debut, these guys take three hits to defeat, adapt an invulnerable "crouching" stance after each hit, and usually attack with a simple charge - but are able to jump high while facing the screen. Plus, the Japanese names seem to have a connection (Bunbun and Bull), and a highly similar design aside from the gridiron gear. All in all, these seem to have been intended as a sports-themed version of the SMB3 miniboss, demoted to generic enemy. ''3D World'' does give some divergent evolution to their facial design, but that's about it - otherwise, they're still ''very'' similar, and SMW already tended to heavily alter designs for its newer enemy derivatives. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, January 15, 2024 (EST) | In their debut, these guys take three hits to defeat, adapt an invulnerable "crouching" stance after each hit, and usually attack with a simple charge - but are able to jump high while facing the screen. Plus, the Japanese names seem to have a connection (Bunbun and Bull), and a highly similar design aside from the gridiron gear. All in all, these seem to have been intended as a sports-themed version of the SMB3 miniboss, demoted to generic enemy. ''3D World'' does give some divergent evolution to their facial design, but that's about it - otherwise, they're still ''very'' similar, and SMW already tended to heavily alter designs for its newer enemy derivatives. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 23:06, January 15, 2024 (EST) | ||
:Your points rely quite a lot on speculation, and similarities seem pretty coincidental so I'm saying no. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 17:49, January 16, 2024 (EST) | :Your points rely quite a lot on speculation, and similarities seem pretty coincidental so I'm saying no. {{User:Swallow/sig}} 17:49, January 16, 2024 (EST) | ||
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:::::::::::::Perhaps but I don't see how design decisions affecting two sets of Dry Bones should be applied between Chargin' Chuck and Boom Boom. We need more evidence, and I wouldn't be comfortable putting that in the article as if we've arrived at that conclusion. Stating some design similarities is probably okay but I would personally stop short at stating any link between the two. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:24, January 16, 2024 (EST) | :::::::::::::Perhaps but I don't see how design decisions affecting two sets of Dry Bones should be applied between Chargin' Chuck and Boom Boom. We need more evidence, and I wouldn't be comfortable putting that in the article as if we've arrived at that conclusion. Stating some design similarities is probably okay but I would personally stop short at stating any link between the two. {{User:Mario/sig}} 21:24, January 16, 2024 (EST) | ||
:::::::::::::Could you elaborate on what connection you're seeing in the Japanese names of the enemies? How "Bunbun" and "Bull" are connected aside from starting with the same letter isn't at all apparent to me. Furthermore, while there ''are'' similarities in their behavior, I'd argue that doesn't support them being variants of one another on its own. While variants do often share behaviors, that doesn't mean that every enemy that shares its behavior is a variant of the enemy with which it shares its behavior. To give a counter-example, Spike Tops and Lil Sparkies have, more or less, the same behavior, circling around the edges of platforms and being invulnerable to most forms of attack, but that's not enough to suggest they're variants of one another. The three key points you're presenting here are similarities in Japanese names, a subset of their actions being identical, and visual similarities. That last one is tenuous to me, and, as you say, it requires allowing for a bit of a redesign. Unless I'm missing something more on the connection between their Japanese names, I'm not convinced them starting with the same sound is enough to establish a link. That only leaves their behavior as a point to go off of, and that's already making the assumption we can disregard all the behaviors they don't share. I'm simply not convinced, but I do welcome you to elaborate on the name connection if I have missed something. [[User:Hooded Pitohui|Hooded Pitohui]] ([[User talk:Hooded Pitohui|talk]]) 21:38, January 16, 2024 (EST) | :::::::::::::Could you elaborate on what connection you're seeing in the Japanese names of the enemies? How "Bunbun" and "Bull" are connected aside from starting with the same letter isn't at all apparent to me. Furthermore, while there ''are'' similarities in their behavior, I'd argue that doesn't support them being variants of one another on its own. While variants do often share behaviors, that doesn't mean that every enemy that shares its behavior is a variant of the enemy with which it shares its behavior. To give a counter-example, Spike Tops and Lil Sparkies have, more or less, the same behavior, circling around the edges of platforms and being invulnerable to most forms of attack, but that's not enough to suggest they're variants of one another. The three key points you're presenting here are similarities in Japanese names, a subset of their actions being identical, and visual similarities. That last one is tenuous to me, and, as you say, it requires allowing for a bit of a redesign. Unless I'm missing something more on the connection between their Japanese names, I'm not convinced them starting with the same sound is enough to establish a link. That only leaves their behavior as a point to go off of, and that's already making the assumption we can disregard all the behaviors they don't share. I'm simply not convinced, but I do welcome you to elaborate on the name connection if I have missed something. [[User:Hooded Pitohui|Hooded Pitohui]] ([[User talk:Hooded Pitohui|talk]]) 21:38, January 16, 2024 (EST) | ||
:(Shifting indent back) I ''do'' think Li'l Sparky is derivative of [[Spark]], but that's a different conversation. Anyways, due to Japanese being a syllabic language rather than a phonetic one, "Bu-ru" and "Bu'n-bu'n" are actually pronounced fairly similar, not just "Bull" and "Boom Boom," which are of course pronounced quite different. This is often the only thing shared with many of their enemy names, if even that; for another SMW example, Porcupuffer's JP name, for example, seems to be a cross between Cheep Cheep and Porcupo, spelling the former in a way that invokes a blowfish. When written and pronounced in English, "Puku" and "Fugu" don't seem all that similar, but in Japanese, they are nearly homophones and homonyms. There's a lot of nuance to it that can't really be imitated with English phonetics and characters, simply due to the disconnected roots of Japanese and Romantic/Germanic languages. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 21:47, January 16, 2024 (EST) | |||
:(Shifting indent back) I ''do'' think Li'l Sparky is derivative of [[Spark]], but that's a different conversation. Anyways, due to Japanese being a syllabic language rather than a phonetic one, "Bu-ru" and "Bu'n-bu'n" are actually pronounced fairly similar, not just "Bull" and "Boom Boom," which are of course pronounced quite different. This is often the only thing shared with many of their enemy names, if even that; for another SMW example, Porcupuffer's JP name, for example, seems to be a cross between Cheep Cheep and Porcupo | |||
