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| [[Nintendo Badge Arcade]] refers to Mario's form while wearing a spiny shell as "Spiny Mario". Should we add it onto the page? {{User:Pyro Guy/sig}} 09:29, 6 December 2015 (EST) | | [[Nintendo Badge Arcade]] refers to Mario's form while wearing a spiny shell as "Spiny Mario". Should we add it onto the page? {{User:Pyro Guy/sig}} 09:29, 6 December 2015 (EST) |
| :Seeing as the current article is conjecture and Nintendo Badge Arcade is an official source, I don't see why not. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 00:17, 7 December 2015 (EST) | | :Seeing as the current article is conjecture and Nintendo Badge Arcade is an official source, I don't see why not. {{User:Bazooka Mario/sig}} 00:17, 7 December 2015 (EST) |
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| ==Split Spiny Shell and Buzzy Beetle Shell== | | ==Split Spiny Shell and Buzzy Beetle Shell== |
| {{Settled TPP}} | | {{SettledTPP}} |
| {{Proposal outcome|passed|8-0|split}} | | {{ProposalOutcome|passed|8-0|split}} |
| It has been mentioned above that this should be split. The reason why is because (a) they have different [[Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS|in-game]] names and (b) they function differently. Also, they are somewhat split already as [[Spiny Shell]] (backup after [[User:Toadette the Achiever]]'s proposal passes: [[Spiny Shell (Spiny)]]) already has an article. However, it has a link to here like it should. This proposal will move all info about the Spiny Shell to that article. However, there is also the possibility of it being moved to a Spiny Shell with and identifier if it needs to be that way (it will be {{fake link|Spiny Shell (Super Mario Maker)}}). Info about the Buzzy Beetle shell will remain here and this will be moved to [[Buzzy Beetle Shell]]. After the move, Shell Helmet will either be deleted or turn into a disambridge. But, if this fails, changes will still be made to go against the split info. Mainly this quote, "It protects him from damage from above, and is useful against [[Thwomp]]s," will be removed (because it should be) from Spiny Shell (this also applies if this passes and the moved info is given an identifier, although changes to other parts of the paragraph will still be changed). This proposal also will determine where links ([[Buzzy Mario]] and [[Spiny Mario]] as well as Buzzy Beetle Shell if this fails) redirect to. As for the info the relates to both, right now I am thinking of having it on both, but this can be a subject of change. But, only if people feel strongly against having them in both. I don't think it will go against [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|policy]] as it is needed to be said twice. Flow will not be an issue if this passes. | | It has been mentioned above that this should be split. The reason why is because (a) they have different [[Super Mario Maker for Nintendo 3DS|in-game]] names and (b) they function differently. Also, they are somewhat split already as [[Spiny Shell]] (backup after [[User:Toadette the Achiever]]'s proposal passes: [[Spiny Shell (Spiny)]]) already has an article. However, it has a link to here like it should. This proposal will move all info about the Spiny Shell to that article. However, there is also the possibility of it being moved to a Spiny Shell with and identifier if it needs to be that way (it will be {{fake link|Spiny Shell (Super Mario Maker)}}). Info about the Buzzy Beetle shell will remain here and this will be moved to [[Buzzy Beetle Shell]]. After the move, Shell Helmet will either be deleted or turn into a disambridge. But, if this fails, changes will still be made to go against the split info. Mainly this quote, "It protects him from damage from above, and is useful against [[Thwomp]]s," will be removed (because it should be) from Spiny Shell (this also applies if this passes and the moved info is given an identifier, although changes to other parts of the paragraph will still be changed). This proposal also will determine where links ([[Buzzy Mario]] and [[Spiny Mario]] as well as Buzzy Beetle Shell if this fails) redirect to. As for the info the relates to both, right now I am thinking of having it on both, but this can be a subject of change. But, only if people feel strongly against having them in both. I don't think it will go against [[MarioWiki:Once and only once|policy]] as it is needed to be said twice. Flow will not be an issue if this passes. |
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| #{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|Yoshi the SSM}} Per proposal. |
| #{{User|PowerKamek}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|PowerKamek}} Per proposal. |
| #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Took a while to think it through, but I suppose they're different enough. We have articles for both the [[Super Leaf]] and [[Statue Leaf]], as well as [[Goomba's Shoe]] and [[Ice Skate|Skate]]. | | #{{User|Doc von Schmeltwick}} Took a while to think it through, but I suppose they're different enough. We have articles for both the [[Super Leaf]] and [[Statue Leaf]], as well as [[Goomba's Shoe]] and [[Skate]]. |
| #{{User|Alex95}} - Per all and comments below. | | #{{User|Alex95}} - Per all and comments below. |
| #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. | | #{{User|TheFlameChomp}} Per proposal. |
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| ::Oh. In that case, shouldn't the Spiny Shell <del>Helmet</del> page be instead named {{fake link|Spiny Shell (helmet)}}? [[MarioWiki:Naming]] allows explicit naming conventions for identifiers, and I thought I'd ask. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:34, 24 November 2017 (EST) | | ::Oh. In that case, shouldn't the Spiny Shell <del>Helmet</del> page be instead named {{fake link|Spiny Shell (helmet)}}? [[MarioWiki:Naming]] allows explicit naming conventions for identifiers, and I thought I'd ask. {{User:Toadette the Achiever/sig}} 17:34, 24 November 2017 (EST) |
| :::Good point. But, I don't think this would be necessary. See [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick]]'s comment {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:39, 24 November 2017 (EST) | | :::Good point. But, I don't think this would be necessary. See [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick]]'s comment {{User:Yoshi the Space Station Manager/sig}} 17:39, 24 November 2017 (EST) |
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| == Buzzy Shell ==
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| The "Mario's Moves" instructions for ''[[Super Mario Maker 2]]'' call this the '''Buzzy Shell'''. Should this page be renamed? {{User:Scrooge200/sig}} 02:20, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
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| :Given that's the most recent name, I'd say so. {{User:Niiue/sig}} 02:26, July 5, 2019 (EDT)
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| == Split this and Spiny Shell (red)? ==
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| This article and [[Spiny Shell (red)]] talk about all instances of Buzzy Beetles' and Spinies' shells, which makes perfect sense, but ''Super Mario Maker'' and its sequel have new hollow shells that exist ''directly alongside'' the shells as they work in the other games. Buzzies and Spinies can retreat into their shell, and these can not be worn in any style. All 4 game styles have distinct graphics for the two versions of shell, showing the underbelly for the retreated enemy and fully hollow shells for the helmets. As I see it, these are four discrete course elements. I would therefore suggest splitting information about the "shellmets" and the Buzzy Mario and Spiny Mario forms to new articles titled {{Fake link|Buzzy Shell (helmet)}} and {{Fake link|Spiny Shell (helmet)}}. --[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 23:50, February 3, 2025 (EST)
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| ==Split ''Super Mario Maker'' helmets==
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| {{TPP}}
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| {{Multiple image
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| |align=left
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| |image1=SMMBuzzyShellNSMBU.png
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| |caption1=A Buzzy Beetle hiding in ''SMM''
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| |width1=70
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| |image2=SMM-NSMBU-Buzzy Shell.png
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| |caption2=A hollow, wearable Buzzy Shell in ''SMM''
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| |width2=70
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| }}
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| As I questioned in the section above, I feel like the wearable shells in ''Super Mario Maker'' should be considered to be distinct objects from Buzzy Shells and Spiny Shells in general. The real main reason for this is that both versions of each shell fully coexist in the Maker games, and are not interchangeable in any way outside of the editor itself. In some regards, these hollow shells are almost like powerups for the Buzzy Mario and Spiny Mario forms. Shaking a Buzzy Beetle turns it into a hollow shell, which can be worn. This is distinct from simply jumping on a Buzzy Beetle in play, as these "shelled" Beetles will eventually come back out of their shells and cannot be worn at all. They even have distinct graphics in all 4 game styles to clearly show whether the shell is hollow or not, up to having new sprites for the ''SMB'' and ''SMB3'' game styles showing the hiding Beetle's underbelly, unlike the original games.
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| As such, I think these wearable shells should have their own pages, which would presumably be called {{Fake link|Buzzy Shell (helmet)}} and {{Fake link|Spiny Shell (helmet)}} respectively. Being that the general shells appear in many more games, they would keep the non-disambiguated titles.
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| {{br}}
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| '''Proposer''': {{User|PopitTart}}<br>
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| '''Deadline''': March 12, 2025, 23:59 GMT
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| ===Support: Split Buzzy Shell (helmet) and Spiny Shell (helmet)===
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| #{{User|PopitTart}} Per proposal.
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| #{{User|Jdtendo}} It makes sense. The helmet variant is an actual object that is different from the shelled enemy.
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| #{{User|Rykitu}} Per Jdtendo.
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| #{{User|Camwoodstock}} Shellmets are treated as unique entities from non-helmet shells by the game, ergo, we should split them. Per proposal.
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| #{{User|EvieMaybe}} would let us go into more detail about the shellmet's functionality as well
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| #{{User|Kaptain Skurvy}} Surprised these two weren't already split. Per all!
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| #{{User|WingedBoomBoom}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Nelsonic}} Per all.
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| #{{User|Scrooge200}} The game does distinguish them: stomped Buzzy Beetles or Spinies cannot be worn as a helmet. There's also a bunch of unique interactions with each helmet that would be worth documenting.
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| ===Oppose: Keep together===
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| #{{User|Hewer}} Pretty much the only aspect in which these differ is function, and having read the comments, I'm not convinced the differences are major enough to be worth a split. I don't think the ability to wear it makes it fundamentally a different object that needs to be on a different article (the [[Koopa Shell]]s from 3D World come to mind, and the [[Blue Shell]] article also has no problem covering both a power-up for Mario and a thing worn by enemies), and I feel like this is more just a case of the same object serving different functions in the same game. Also, I'm not sure if the Buzzy Shell page in particular would even exist if it weren't for the helmet, so splitting that would feel odd.
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| #{{user|Doc von Schmeltwick}} - Per what Hewer said, particularly the last point. <small>(Also personally, I'd be more receptive to trying to merge the Spiny Shells by color since that was always meant to be a series thing more than a separate object thing.)</small>
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| ===Shellme''n''ts===
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| The thing is, the helmet versions of these shells ''can still be kicked around like a regular shell''. So that means the ''only'' difference between the helmet versions and regular versions is that one version is able to be worn while another isn't. Is that enough to be worth a split? After all, we're not splitting other variants with the same names just because they behave a little differently (e.g. red [[Spike Top]]s and blue Spike Tops in ''Mario Maker'') {{User:Arend/sig}} 05:56, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| :There is the other difference that empty Buzzly Shells shot from Bill Blasters are can't be stomped because they become moving platforms (that can still hurt if they run into Mario.) Lots of Mario Maker contraptions take advantage of this to move solid objects like Bill Blasters left and right, or use a whole row as a weird kind of automatically moving platform.[[User:Salmancer|Salmancer]] ([[User talk:Salmancer|talk]]) 06:13, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| ::This mechanic is used prevalently in the ''SMM2'' Story Mode level [[BUZZY: The Movie: The Book: The Ride]], which forces the player to ride on and throw Buzzy Shell helmets to hit coins, while normal Buzzy Beetles drop from the ceiling to destroy their platform.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 06:35, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| :There are some other, subtler differences: the helmet shells also cannot wake back up into their enemy forms of course, and the helmets also cannot be placed upside down like the enemies can, which is mainly relevant to the Spiny. This last one is a lot more pedantic, but occupied Buzzy/Spiny Shells also cannot have parachutes, as jumping on them or eating them with Yoshi to make them hide breaks any parachute the Buzzy/Spiny already had.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 06:35, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| ::Full and empty Koopa Shells were in ''Super Mario World'' with mildly different properties, and we don't split those. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 18:45, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| :::Those shells are interchangeable, tough. An Unshelled Koopa can jump into an empty shell, and Koopas can be kicked out of their shells. On the other hand, there is no way to put a Buzzy into a hollow Buzzy Shell, or take one out of its shell and wear that shell as a helmet. They function 100% separately.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 18:53, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| {{@|Hewer}} I think the comparison to Koopa Shell in ''3D World'' and the Blue Shell is unfair, those shells function consistently one way or another in each game, all Koopa Shells in ''SMB'' are purely kickable, while all Koopa Shells in ''3D World'' are rideable. All Blue Shells in ''SMW'' are the shells of Blue Koopa Troopas, while all Blue Shells in ''NSMB'' are power ups. Buzzy Shells and Spiny Shells in SMM do not follow this logic, both forms co-exist in the exact same game, and I think that warrants distinction.--[[User:PopitTart|PopitTart]] ([[User talk:PopitTart|talk]]) 18:59, February 26, 2025 (EST)
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| :The same subject doing multiple things in one game isn't completely unheard of either, and there's non-split variants like the Spike Tops Arend mentioned. The point stands that being able to be worn doesn't make something fundamentally different, whether it's in the same game or otherwise. Also, I want to reiterate my point about the Buzzy Shell helmet being the justification for that article's existence - why would non-helmet appearances of a Buzzy Beetle's shell even be split from Buzzy Beetle at all? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 03:09, February 27, 2025 (EST)
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