Editing Talk:Burrbo

== Popn ==

{{talk}}
The Japanese website for ''Super Mario Odyssey'' actually seems to give a name for the purple Burrbo-like enemies in the Ruined Dragon fight [https://www.nintendo.com/jp/switch/aaaca/archives/character.html here]. It reads 『ぴょんぴょん飛び跳ねて攻撃してくる「イガボー」は以前にもご紹介したのですが…ここに生息するポップンは目が赤く光っているのが特徴なんです！世界って広いですね。』, so it seems that these are called ポップン (''Poppun''), which is weird because that's Burrbo's internal name. Anyways, that they have different Japanese names and don't look much alike, combined with the fact that the Ruined Dragon version doesn't even seem to have an English name, that should be an easy split, right? [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 17:22, December 11, 2024 (EST)
:I know we discussed this in the official Discord, but I wanted to share this here for others. As apparent [https://www.mariowiki.com/index.php?title=Burrbo&diff=4458973&oldid=4458957 here], this variant goes by "Burrbo (Crumbleden)" in ''The Art of Super Mario Odyssey'', and is called イガボー（ホロビア）in the Japanese release, which also translates to "Burrbo (Crumbleden)." The book was originally released in Japan on September 30, 2018, so only a few months after that post was published that calls it "Poppun." The book is also written by a the editors from the publishing house [https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%83%93%E3%83%83%E3%83%88 Ambit], who also write and publish the ''Nintendo Dream'' magazines, so these are not people far removed from the people who made the game. I am not going to speculate on why it has two different names, but at the very least, I think both names at minimum are valid, and the enemy is at least definitively a type of Burrbos. Whether it is a variant in the same way there are red and green-shelled Koopa Troopas (which share an article), or in the same way there are Cheep Cheeps and Deep Cheeps (which have separate articles) is another question.
:I honestly am not certain about what is currently written about the Crumbleden variant is accurate. It has been awhile since I played the game, but do they actually attack with electricity or at least cause electric-type damage? I recall them behaving the same way as normal Burrbos. I am not even sure they move faster - it could be a misperception because the opportunity to strike the Ruined Dragon feels like an intense, time-sensitive event. If the only thing that is mechanically different is the context with which they appear, I am not sure this warrants a split. I think it would be wise for someone to double check what these enemies are like in-game. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:31, December 11, 2024 (EST)

:Eh. There's arguments to be made for and against.<br>Pro split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's English name comes from an outsourced translation, while the Japanese name comes directly from Nintendo's website. The source priority policy at [[MarioWiki:Naming]] (which imo should be a page of its own) lays out how we ought to be weighing a third-party translation commissioned by a third-party publisher against the main site of the IP owner.<br>- There's precedent on the wiki in splitting behaviorally-identical enemies found in a particular game ([[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Merge_Game_Boy_Donkey_Kong_enemy_variations_/_Split_Wario_World_enemy_variations|see proposal]]).<br>Against split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's Japanese name is simply the internal name of the common Burrbo. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:41, December 11, 2024 (EST)
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 :I honestly am not certain about what is currently written about the Crumbleden variant is accurate. It has been awhile since I played the game, but do they actually attack with electricity or at least cause electric-type damage? I recall them behaving the same way as normal Burrbos. I am not even sure they move faster - it could be a misperception because the opportunity to strike the Ruined Dragon feels like an intense, time-sensitive event. If the only thing that is mechanically different is the context with which they appear, I am not sure this warrants a split. I think it would be wise for someone to double check what these enemies are like in-game. - [[User:Nintendo101|Nintendo101]] ([[User talk:Nintendo101|talk]]) 18:31, December 11, 2024 (EST)
-:Eh. There's arguments to be made for and against.<br>Pro split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's English name comes from an outsourced translation, while the Japanese name comes directly from Nintendo's website. The source priority policy at [[MarioWiki:Naming]] (which imo should be a page of its own) lays out how we ought to be weighing a third-party translation commissioned by a third-party publisher against the main site of the IP owner.<br>- There's precedent on the wiki in splitting behaviorally-identical enemies found in a particular game ([[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Merge_Game_Boy_Donkey_Kong_enemy_variations_/_Split_Wario_World_enemy_variations|see proposal]]).<br>Against split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's Japanese name is outstandingly similar to the internal name of the common Burrbo--though which is derived from which, if at all, I don't know. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:41, December 11, 2024 (EST), edited 18:50, December 11, 2024 (EST)
+:Eh. There's arguments to be made for and against.<br>Pro split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's English name comes from an outsourced translation, while the Japanese name comes directly from Nintendo's website. The source priority policy at [[MarioWiki:Naming]] (which imo should be a page of its own) lays out how we ought to be weighing a third-party translation commissioned by a third-party publisher against the main site of the IP owner.<br>- There's precedent on the wiki in splitting behaviorally-identical enemies found in a particular game ([[MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive/55#Merge_Game_Boy_Donkey_Kong_enemy_variations_/_Split_Wario_World_enemy_variations|see proposal]]).<br>Against split:<br>- Crumbleden Burrbo's Japanese name is simply the internal name of the common Burrbo. {{User:Koopa con Carne/Sig}} 18:41, December 11, 2024 (EST)
-::Okay, it turns out the use of "Popn" is a mistake on Nintendo's part. [https://x.com/mario_odysseyJP/status/1011005797172633600 This tweet] has the same text that is on the website, but uses "Popn" in both instances. They then wrote a second tweet saying they mistakenly used the wrong name (presumably an early development name judging by how it matches Burrbo's internal name). It seems that when fixing the mistake for the website, they accidentally only fixed the instance of the name in quotes. Aside from the fact that splitting is definitely not the right choice after all, I'm not sure how to proceed with documenting the name confusion. [[User:Blinker|Blinker]] ([[User talk:Blinker|talk]]) 08:16, December 12, 2024 (EST)
-:::Similar things have happened, like with Tropical Wiggler. I guess model it after that example. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 11:36, December 12, 2024 (EST)