Editing Talk:Bull's-Eye Bill

== Rename to Bull's-Eye Bill ==

As stated in the article, a Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Qjqt2K_MM&t=1m30s trailer] by Nintendo calls them "Bull's-Eye Bills". We also recently had a member of the Nintendo Treehouse (the ones in charge of localization) confirm it as the official name during the World Championships: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b88eKjjQbeg&t=17m45s

== Determine how to reorganize this page ==

So, given the above discussion, i'd like to open this proposal. This will determine how to reorganize this page.  While most sources consider Missile Bill being the same as Bullet Bill, just with a different behavior (A Big Bertha/Boss Bass situation obviously), the Zen Hyakka treats them as a separate entity. <span class=explain title="おうふく">往復</span>キラー "Oufuku Killer", which, for future references, does the same with [[Porcupuffer]], which explicitly states that [[User talk:Mister Wu/30th Anniversary Books Related Questions#More encyclopedia names|it]] [[:File:SMW Zen Hyakka Porcupuffer.jpg|is]] a [[Cheep Cheep]], which no guide has done before, besides the Daizukan. The Purple Bullet Bill is キラー(紫) "Killer (murasaki)", which confirms them to be a separate entity. We have [[Guided Bullet Bill]] split, so why not this one? The Yoshi's Island homing ones that disappear after a couple of second are considered as a color variant, which while it did the same for the [[Bouncing Bullet Bill]] and [[Relay Heihō]], the latter two were more obvious to be definitely based off of each other.

== Determine how to reorganize this page, take 2 ==

The discussion above has been going on for a ridiculous amount of time, and no consensus has been reached. In Japanese sources, the NSMBW Missile Bills are the first appearance of Missile Bills, while the ones from SMB3 and SMS are simple color variants there. However, in English sources, they're separate entities.

The first ''Purple Bullet Blues'' is an actual typo of the Versus guide.--[[User:Mister Wu|Mister Wu]] ([[User talk:Mister Wu|talk]]) 08:16, August 7, 2019 (EDT)

:So two guides distinguish it, with one mistankely calling it Purple Bullet Blue. --{{User:FanOfYoshi/sig}} 11:21, August 7, 2019 (EDT)

==Determine how to reorganize SMB3 Bill==

This is something that's been on my mind since [[Talk:Guided Bullet Bill#Merge to Bull's-Eye Bill or Bullet Bill (or both)|this proposal]]. Simply put, with Purple Bullet Bill and Guided Bullet Bill merged back into Bullet Bill, it makes sense to focus on the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' Missile Bill. To recap, "Missile Bill" refers to both the early ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' and the current ''New Super Mario Bros. Wii'' ones, which have different behavior; the former just performs one immediate 180° about-face when passing its target, whereas the latter curves and accurately homes in on its target and takes its time pulling off a full circle rotation. You could say that this is due to the limitation not showing off the its dynamic motion, but when the limitation or lack thereof changes how the player fundamentally interacts with it, at what point do you consider it the same thing? As far as Japanese sources go, it's been referred to as both an unnamed subtype (described as taking a U-turn) and 「{{ruby|往復|おうふく}}キラー」(''Ōfuku Kirā'', Roundtrip Killer) in an older source; the English [https://archive.ph/0bmQD Mario Portal] recently does not mention it. So for this proposal, I'm including two options: the first option is to split off Missile Bill entirely as its own article, with a note at the top of the page stating that it was also the initial name for Bull's-Eye Bill; the second option is to merge the ''Super Mario Bros. 3'' content into the main Bullet Bill and turn Missile Bill into a disambiguation page ala Boss Bass / Big Bertha.

'''Proposer''': {{User|LinkTheLefty}}<br>

===Split Missile Bill (''Super Mario Bros. 3'')===

#{{User|SmokedChili}} Per proposal.

#{{User|Mister Wu}} The original Missile Bills never were homing Bullet Bills in the first place, and the Japanese guides, both modern and of the times, never pretended they were (which is why the names of the original Missile Bills found in them are different from ''Search Killer''). While we might argue that this U turn behavior was the first test of a behavior that eventually became a proper homing behavior, that is mostly a reconstruction that we do and that might have some merit to it, but still isn't enough for the original Missile Bills to be stated that they were homing in the Japanese ''Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros.'', to name a recent example (and mind you, the original Japanese one was written along with Nintendo, so it is nowhere near as problematic as its translations).

<s>#{{User|Hewer}} Per proposal, especially the point about it being distinguished in Japanese sources.</s>

I feel like I might have misinterpreted something here - when you say Missile Bills were once identified as "an unnamed subtype", do you mean a subtype of standard Bullet Bill or of Bull's-Eye Bill? {{User:Hewer/sig}} 10:04, January 6, 2023 (EST)

:A subtype of Bullet Bill, specifically; Bull's-Eye Bill doesn't have any subtypes unless you counted the ''Super Mario Sunshine'' colors, but that was [[Talk:Guided Bullet Bill#Merge to Bull's-Eye Bill or Bullet Bill (or both)|another proposal]]. [[User:LinkTheLefty|LinkTheLefty]] ([[User talk:LinkTheLefty|talk]]) 10:30, January 6, 2023 (EST)

::It's about as homey as they could get on NES, since sprite rotation just plain isn't a thing on that level of processing power; ESMB/MP not even mentioning them makes this a bit more frustrating, though I want to point out how much the SMMSMB3 sprite resembles the red palette (minus flash) on the original SMB3. SMA3's also does u-turns, just with added rotation. I'm abstaining this round since I can see it go either way. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 13:36, January 6, 2023 (EST)

:::Why would Missile Bills need sprite rotation for more elaborate homing if Boos do just fine without? [[User:SmokedChili|SmokedChili]] ([[User talk:SmokedChili|talk]]) 03:46, January 7, 2023 (EST)

::::Same reason Boo's only slightly rotate to this day; they're floating ghosts. With ammunition rounds, you expect it to go the direction of the pointed end. It also is probably the reason Fire Chomp was faceless most of the time in SMB3, as that makes it appear more flexible. [[User:Doc von Schmeltwick|Doc von Schmeltwick]] ([[User talk:Doc von Schmeltwick|talk]]) 10:30, January 7, 2023 (EST)